Fans praise "The Contest" episode as groundbreaking comedy with clever premise and character writing, though some debate the show's philosophical approach and whether it has become too liberal.
I agree, but I still watch it. I think that the show has become WAY too liberal. However, my philosophical outlook has evolved (independently) in the past few years, so maybe the show hasn't changed that much. Chris, the DJ, seems to be a little too looney lately. I'm hoping it will get better.
As far as Jerry is concerned, he doesn't seem to have a viewpoint on political/philosophical problems, which is acceptable, since the show is a comedy, not a drama. Seinfeld is the funniest, side-splitting show on TV today because it deals with observed-reality, as opposed to lots of introspection/philosophy that tends to bog down a show (ie: N.Exp.) Example: the "M" show was the funniest Seinfeld I've ever seen. It dealt with the action (esp. in Kramer's case) or non-action of "M"ing. Imagine if Chris, the DJ, was there:
Chris: "But why do we "M"? I think Freud said it best when....
the Kantian belief that....the Cartesisan "M"ing of....".
I vote "The Contest" the best premise of a sit-com in 1992. I'll wager this has never been attempted in TV history. Having Elaine enter what would have been another all-male bonding thing was a stroke of genius and one of the reasons I love this show.
I strongly disagree. I vote for it being the best and most hilarious premise of a sit-com in the last 10 years. And having Elaine enter into the contest may have been the masterstroke, er, ah, um, well a masterpiece, ah, hmm, well it was a damn good idea and put this particular episode over the top as a ground breaking show of the decade.
I dunno, I really picked 10 years off the top of my head. It's so hard to choose best humourous sit-com episodes because humor is so personal and unique. I first think of certain shop routines of Palin/Cleese from Monty Python but these are not sit-coms. I next think of several episodes of Soap, I would vote in. There were, if not whole episodes, segments of WKRP that I fondly remember. But you see, immediately readers are going to trash my picks and offer theirs. I have a tendency towards absurdist humor and what I choose would reflect this. I find that Seinfeld and his writers are seeing things from a deep pit of absurdity. Even though, I would think that a great amount of readers here would agree, some large percentage would not. And age is a factor. If you had not grown up with all the gyrations that the afternoon soaps went thru, an absurd comedy on this tendency would probably only look silly to you. The same goes for WKRP. Much comedy is rooted in it's social climate. And this is the reason for much annotation in classic comedic plays to help the reader understand why this particular tidbit was so funny. Still there are timeless qualities and patterns which go back through the ages. One episode of WKRP had two threads running through it that smashed head on in the middle of the episode. One thread had Johnnie Fever, thinking to help Jennifer stop Herb Tarlick's romantic advances by telling Herb that Jennifer is really a man after a sex change operation. The other thread Is Andy and Arthur Carlson wringing their hands over how to tell Les Nesman that he has been barred from the football shower room (as a reporter) because he has been accused of being gay. When all four meet in Carlson's office, Arthur and Andy keep trying to broach the subject unsuccessfully and are glad when Herb volunteers to tell Les. Herb, thinking they have been talking about Jennifer all this time, blurts out "Jennifer is a man" to everyone's amazement. Developed confusions of this sort go back to English and French farces, if I am not mistaken. I think of "The Importance of Being Earnest" as an example. Again on WKRP, when Les asked why Johnie is trying to get others to let him sleep over at their place, he replies, "They're fumigating at my apartment house." Les then asks, "What for?" Johnie answers, "Lizards." Les, after some thought, tells Johnie, "You know, you've got to cut down on your drug input, John." Much of our appreciation of humor is based on what characters we come to like in a personal sort of way. As exemplified by the last vignettte, some of the humor comes from coming to know and like the particular character's image and viewpoint. I'm 45. I was in the crowd in front of Hilton in 1968. Johnnie Fever as a character is very familiar to me. And very likable. I know plenty of people who saw no humor in WKRP because they didn't like the characters. I find that I have to watch a sit-com through several episodes before I find the humor reaching me. I have to come to know the characters first. This includes Seinfeld. I can count on one hand the number of people who found Molly Dodd funny. They usually rejected it because they found her too whinny. I found the dropping of a laugh track, heavy handed doses of NYC centered humor and the sharpest, most full bodied etching of individual absurd characters, not just hilarious but deeply hilarious. I don't find the depth that Dodd went into character humor in anything else that comes to mind. I don't think that I'm easy, either. I find most of what passes as sit-com humor to be terrible. Mostly trash. I feel that I'm attracted to either an original point of view or a finely tuned appreciation of standard humorous patterns. I found reruns of Dick Van Dyke funny even though their story lines could probably been found on cave paintiings made by early man. The humor was in watching excellect actors, perfect in timing and nuance act out sketches as old as the hills. I didn't find MTM particulary funny but it had it's moments such as the Clown's Death episode because they played against character. BTW, I also find Northern Exposure funny. I don't mind their underlying thread of philosophical preaching. I find the individual characters as seen from the script writer's eyes as being quite humorous and at times very absurd. Marilyn, vocalizing the least of all the characters, is the funniest in the way the others bounce their views off of her. I find the binding of the oldest and the youngest cast members in a hot romance particularly absurdist in these times of Politically Correct behavior. Maggie, as the perfect foil to Joel's rational world view, is very funny. I will admit that all this context is dealt with very gently. It does not have the edge or the quickness that Seinfeld has, which I find very bracing and energizing. Which is what I would expect most humor from NYC to have in its makeup, i.e. Molly Dodd, New Yorker Magazine, all the New Journalism advocates, movie "After Hours", etc. (OH No, again, I'm going to get my butt kicked by the "NY thing police". Will I never learn?)
As an exercise in finding what the humor background and overall mood of those who find Seinfeld funny, maybe those interested would like to either trash or support me with what they have found funny throughout their lives of exposure to TV? What did you cut your humor teeth on that has brought you to read and write to this newsgroup? ALAN ROGERS
Thanks for the post, Alan. I had also been trying to think of some of the funniest sit-com episodes I've seen through the years, and hadn't really come up with anything until you mentioned WKRP. The funniest show I've ever seen was the Thanksgiving episode when the turkeys are tossed from the plane. The scene with Les reporting live is absolutely hilarious, followed by the perpetrator's comment (I can't remember if it was Norm or Mr. Carlson), which is perhaps the funniest line I've ever heard: "I swear to God, I thought they could fly!"
Radar's drum solo in M*A*S*H
The trumpet theme music in the original Bob Newhart Show
Any and all phone conversations involving Bob Newhart
The WKRP episode when Johnny was moved to the morning slot
No, Venus got drunk very quickly, and then got fixated on hats. Johnny's reaction time kept improving (and he remained sober), until he saw the WPIG pig vandalizing the lobby by painting over the WKRP insignia.
Yes, it was definately Johnny that kept improving after drinking. One of my favorite WKRPs. The other one is the one with the bomb threat where Johnny is at the remote broadcasting tower and he bashes up a phone with a toolbox because he couldn't get a call through to his bookie. The police race to the tower because the bomb is in the toolbox and Johnny is running around yelling how the "PHONE POLICE" are coming to arrest him.
And now back to Seinfeld... my favorite episode still remains the one with Kramer and the bag of cement in the laundromat. There have been a lot of great opisodes since then but they have never been able to top that one.
I thought the funniest line in that episode was when Les was describing the scene with something like "They're hitting the ground like sacks of wet cement."
One of my favorite scenes from a sit-com come from a Fawlty Towers episode where Cleese has to pick up a duck or something and he is having problems with his car. In one scene you see him get out of his car muttering, run offscreen, and a moment later he charges back into the picture with a branch with leaves on it and commences to beat his car mercilessly. Cracked me up.
Now that someone jogged my recollection of a REALLY funny show, _Faulty Towers_ (sp?), my most memorable scene from it is "Throw it AWAY!!" when John C tried to explain to Manuel that the grapefruit that fell on the floor should not be served to a customer, so Manuel tosses it right into the customer's face. It's been a long time since I've seen any episodes of FT, even tho I know videos of it can be had now. Now I know what my wife can get me for Christmas!
In article [email] writes: +In article , [email] (Robert Cianchette) writes: +|> The funniest show +|> I've ever seen was the Thanksgiving episode when the turkeys are tossed +|> from the plane. +|> Mr. Carlson), which is perhaps the funniest line I've ever heard: "I swear +|> to God, I thought they could fly!" + + I thought the funniest line in that episode was when Les was describing +the scene with something like "They're hitting the ground like sacks of wet +cement."
Mine was:
Carlson: "Herb, did you get the turkeys?"
Herb: "Yep, and let me tell you, Big Guy, when that farmer asked me what I
was gonna do with 20 live turkeys, I had to do some *pretty* fast
thinking."
Carlson: "What did you say?"
Herb: "I told him 'I don't know'."
I find that I have to watch a sit-com through several episodes before
I find the humor reaching me. I have to come to know the characters first.
This includes Seinfeld. I can count on one hand the number of people who
found Molly Dodd funny. They usually rejected it because they found her
too whinny. I found the dropping of a laugh track, heavy handed doses of
NYC centered humor and the sharpest, most full bodied etching of
individual absurd characters, not just hilarious but deeply hilarious.
I don't find the depth that Dodd went into character humor in anything else
that comes to mind.
I thought Jay Tarses was the only one that thought Molly Dodd was funny.
I love Seinfeld and one of the reasons I think is narcissism--and I'm betting it's yours. too. That is, I can think of no other tv show currently that so carefully pinpoints my--bear with me here--"subject position". (Except maybe Northern Exposure, but with less focus given all the other charcters.) Can anyone relate to this out there? I mean that the (representations of the) characters and their world is close to the way I represent my own experience to myself. The show reveals my own class, race, political, ideological, educational, "attitudinal," etc. position, though in a stylized, tv-way. I apologize to those intellectual-phobes out there for all this highbrow chat but I can't help it--being college educated is one of the reasons I like this show.
So I ask you: is there anyone on this bboard, who loves this show, who looks forward to it every wednesday and laughs hard, who maybe even systematically tapes every episode--who would >not< identify themselves along most of these following lines (though of course much of this desribes most people who would be on the bboard anyway so this is less than accurate...):
*white *middle class *politically liberal-ish to left, including general sympathy with feminist issues [even though the characters themselves are pretty apolitical] *board, uninterested, ambivalent or apprehensive about "careers" and yet associated with people who have them *college eductated *young adult (I'm 30) *media-saturated [e.g., remember J's rendition of the Loony Toons intro to which Elaine responds that all his references are to tv and cartoons] *what have I missed?
Look, I love Roseanne and Simpsons and Ren & Stimpy, too. (I stopped watching Northern Exposure last season for lack of sarcasm/cynicism in that annoying person of Chris, the DJ, who is the shows "moral center" and whose literary pretensions we are supposed to take seriously.) But none of these shows are so aggressively targeted at my market group. Has anyone thought about what they sell during the commersials? What kind of cars (price range, age group)? On the other hand, the show is somewhat male dominated--do more men watch this show than women? The character of Elaine is there to counter this and I think she's great, a character I think that feminists would like.
Inscribed upon tablet , the mighty [email] (Richard W. Rees) records thusly:
Check.
Check.
I think Seinfeld's more apathetic than apolitical.. They've got beliefs like you say, but the only reason I'd see anyone in any protest (excluding Kramer, of course), is to pick up members of the opposite sex.
That's ME! Hahahah! I don't know WHAT I'm gonna do, but I do know I will have to have some kind of net access....
Working on it, with varying degrees of failure
So's my sister, tho you both got me by about a decade.
You want Media-saturated? Look at us eighties children. We've taken media saturation to a whole new level! 8)
Well, Jerry hawks AMEX... Yeah, there's things in Seinfeld occasionally I don't get but considering the whole retro nature of modern pop culture (eg: reruns reruns reruns), I don't miss much. I think Mad About You is a lot more complicated but then again, I have no plans for marriage in the forseeable future so...
Dunno bout that (since the other members of my 'household' are male),
but I think Elaine's great because:
She seems driven by real things
She is vulnerable to real things
She is really bright, yet occasionally screws up
She is neurotic to a degree
She is an A-1 quality babe (as far as fictional characters can be 8)
I've noticed that since I've been in college, I've become much more selective in my television viewing. I watch the "intellectual" shows as well; "Seinfeld," "Northern Exposure," etc. but I wouldn't call this narcissism. You could, but it's a somewhat negative term for what is merely the affinity one feels with the characters on the show.
Yep, yep, and even more than general sympathy for women's issues, since I'm a woman. One of the reasons I find this show so incredibly GREAT is that Elaine is such a -real- woman. The character is not limited to being the star's girlfriend--she -was-, and even though they broke up, she's still on the show. And I think the two of them work better as just friends. Gives their relationship a bit more depth. It's almost refreshing to not have to deal with "tension" the way you do on other shows like "Cheers" (when it was good) and "Northern Ex."
God that was funny. and it's so true? Can't listen to Wagner anymore because I keep hearing Elmer Fudd's voice singing "Kill da wabbit..." not that I ENJOY listening to Wagner...
I think it's also great that she's not the feminist soapbox; the token female who is supposed to raise our consciousness. Not that I would mind if they did an issue on, say... sexual assault or sexual harrassment (though that one's been done a bit too much on the sitcoms, hasn't it?), but it's nice that they don't have to RELY on such issues to make Elaine's character real. (ANd I'm not really sure that they HAVEN'T done a show on harrassment or something like that; I'm just making an assumption--if they did, the show would actually be about SOMETHING)
This is funny, I have the same problem. I was listening to the Barber of Seville the other day and all I could think of is Bugs Bunny covering Elmer Fudd with shaving cream and giving him a shave.
I don't watch Simpsons [could never come to grips with it] or R&S, but Roseanne, yes. For all the faults/idiosyncrasies of Roseanne and that damn husband of hers, that show is one of the very few shows with some amount of realism involved. Its not your typical husband (in some glamour profession) + wife (the standard cute, slim, blonde variety) + kids (all smart as hell with their own cutsy stories attached) kind of sitcom.
Amen.. they [the producers of NX] keep trying to instill a "deep philosophical undertone" to the whole proceedings, rather than let the characters be what they are. On top of that, many of the themes are repeated.
Ren & Stimpy is a cartoon about a cat and a dog on Nickeloden Sat night at 9:00pm and Sun morn at 11:00am It is not your typical sat. morning mindless cartoon. It is quite funny and definitely not just for kids. Tune in and your life will be Happy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy.
Not even close, but I'm a cynic so it doesn't matter.
Seinfeld is apolitical. Other than the general "New York Jewish" flavor, there has been little leaning in either direction, with the exception of the lesbian wedding in "The Subway," and that was off-camera.
This is definitely my life. How many degrees does it take to decide on a career?
Yes
Yes, "Seinfeld" unlike some of the other sitcoms definitely is more adult. Really, how many pre-adolescents can identify with George's excessive neuroticism? And unlike, say, "Hearts Afire," there are no children characters to distract.
anyone who came of age in the '80s
the most important element of all: neuroticism/stress
Of course, that could be subsumed in your college educated and career categories.
Agitator #->
Theoretical Physicist, but in reality, a math grad.
For a minute I thought we had some Mongolians watching "Seinfeld" again. You know those Mongolians, they might start acting like Kramer...
I live in the city and drive a Toyota truck. I'm an Urban Jewish cowboy - my friends call me Bucky Goldstein.
AH those feminists! They always make me pull to the left. I wonder if I ever run into masculists,will they make me swing to the right? "IT MOVED!"
That's a new one. I heard "Unemployment" is a very popular occupation these days. Have you ever tried to make a career out of being unemployed. I'm associated with couple of people who are making a killing on that...
Yeh, that's me - I have a sweatshirt that says "C O L L E G E".
I heard some kids tried to watch the show last week. Some guy made a tape of them watching "The Contest" episode,send it to the FCC,FCC heavily fined NBC, NBC can't afford to pay David Letterman $16million a year now. What are you gonna do?
Yeh,I love to watch Home Shopping Network with a friend of mine,Bill Decker and we love to guess what color of underpants the shopping hostess is wearing. Then we try to guess her natural hair color, if she's involved with anyone besides herslef,bra size...then my mom calls me and says,"Do you have a girl in there or is it just a TV?"
We're pretty much media-over-saturated.
If you're a male - a total hornball,have some appreciation for Howard Stern who himself is a big Jerry Seinfeld fan. If you're a female - you're probably married or seriously involved, and you love to chat on the phone alot and you go to bed early.
-Mark Just havin' some fun.
PS Ren&Stimpy is...eh. Roseanne is a big fat blurb. Roseanne and Tom Arnold are two big fat blurbs. Roseanne,Tom Arnold, and John Goodman are Twinkie Sharks that have raided every 7-11 in MidWest. HomeImprovement,Mad About You,Murphy Brown,Northern Exposure are all over-rated.
I forgot to mention these points in the previous, but people mentioned:
*the age group thing--most were younger than me (30), in their twenties.
*Career anxiety
*Folks wanted to emphasize the importance of neurosis. This is a good point, but I think that it's a particular kind of neurosis, composed of some the various factors I mentioned--career anxiety, singles, age, middle class, etc.
It's hard to belive that some people take the lives of fictional characters to such an extreme but I guess they're out there...Did you dislike "Northern Exposure" before you broke up with your girlfriend?
I enjoy the show only because it pokes fun of the real world. It's hilarious, and it is definitely not a soap opera. He brings out many small things that humans do that are ironic, hipocritical, or just plain ludicrous. And he does so with incredible, addictive humor. I happened upon the show bored one night ( I don`t even watch alot of TV). Right now I only watch Saturday Night Live and Seinfeld regularly.
Yes. Sympathetic to women's issues--I am a woman. Very left, very liberal.
No - Career oriented.
Yes.
28
Yes.
I like the Simpsons, but Ren & Stimpy are too disgusting for me (I'm referring to the episode where Ren takes a bath on the space ship and begins to eat the soap). The only thing I like about Roseanne are Sandra Bernhardt's appearances. I've never watched an entire episode of Northern Exposure.
You call that disgusting?! What about when Stimpy shows Sven Hoek his Booger collection saying, 'I picked them myself!' or when Ren unzips his pants and wizzes on the electic fence game that Stimpy and Ren were playing! Just eating soap is NOT disgusting!! Eating soap is something that your mother made you do when you said a bad word. I mean come on if you're going to put down RnS for being disgusting, then make it something good!
You actually like Sandra Bernhardt! NOW, THAT'S DISGUSTING!!
If I had had the pleasure of seeing these other episodes of RnS, I surely would have included them with my reasons for not watching. Unfortunately, I stopped watching right after the soap incident.
Here's a cartoon I do like--Beetlejuice. He eats bugs, something with nutritional value. Mmmmmm.
Sorry you feel that way, but you're entitled to your opinion. IMHO she's not as bad as Roseanne.
But we digress, this is not alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy or alt.tv.roseannne, this is alt.tv.seinfeld. So back to the subject at HAND.
"You cant break up with me, I have hand!"
"You're gonna need it."
Yes. Though I think that Seinfeld's own media saturation is closer to my age group (he's about 38,isn't he) than to those who watch that are in there late teens or in their 20s.
College educated maybe, but young adult, I don't think so. Some of the people I work with are in their 40s and 50s, and they think it's hysterical. It's just very funny, well written, and well executed. It's about real things (even though they say it's about nothing) that people of different ages and geographical backgrounds (though I am originally from NY :-)) can identify with.
(I thought it was great that people actually ate and spoke at the same time and went to the bathroom. You usually don't see that on tv.)
BTW, I love Northern Exposure, Murphy Brown, Roseanne, Picket Fences, and McLaughlin Group (now this show is funny). Sometimes I really like Mad About You.
I think they would thank you for supporting their theory, which is that Seinfeld appeals to a wider group then just the apathetic mid-20s generation...as shown all your young friends enjoy and all their older co-workers enjoy. Hence, the theory is: everyone enjoys...
In a previous article, [email] (nelson peter j) says:
I happen to be very liberal, and I can't stand Chris and his fortune- cookie "philosophy"... needless to say, I also stopped watching NE.
I'd describe Jerry's philosophy as Epicurean, meaning that for him, the good life is having lots of friends and being nice to them. By a strange coincidence, it's my philosophy too. Philosophy doesn't necessarily mean having a bunch of bespectacled professors mumbling about Essence and Nothingness, you know.
Or, perhaps Ren Hoek (aka, Robin Hood) climbing up Maid Moron's (aka, Stimpy) nose hair and being sucked into her nostril. Or Powdered Toast Man farting. Or Ren sticking to the sheets in Nurse Stimpy.