I've been a big fan of The Simpsons and Beavis & Butt-Head since they both showed up, so I naturally thought this new Mike Judge show after The Simpsons would be a lot of fun...well, if following episodes are as dull as the first, then this show's gonna fail for viewers and for FOX. All though there's a lot of bitching about new Simpsons episodes, I still think the show's got an edge and keeps me laughing consistantly...so I went into King of the Hill in a good mood. However, King of the Hill got a few chuckles out of me, but other than that I sat there straight faced. Here's what I think is wrong with the show:
1.) It's Anderson from B&B. It was fun to watch him get the shaft from Beavis and Butt-Head here and there, but as a main character he's as boring as his demeanor.
2.) The animation is the same poor B&B quality, but B&B were so funny looking that it worked.
3.) Continuing with the way it looks, all the characters are just 'uninspired' and plain...not just the looks, but the voice acting too. Every character in The Simpsons and most in Beavis & Butt-Head had tons of personality and their own quirks that made them enjoyable...everyone in King of the Hill is stiff (in look and voice), monotone, and generally not funny. OK, the rambling neighbor was somewhat amusing, but that'll get old fast.
4.) It's late and I can't think of anything else, so add onto the list here if you disliked the show as well.
I hope it gets better, because I want to support an animated show that is more adult oriented. But even The Critic was a lot more fun that King of the Hill, and that got canned pretty quickly. I will still watch King of the Hill, partly because of it's time slot after The Simpsons, and partly because I'm hoping it will get better and 'find itself'. If it still continues to suck, well....go back to Beavis, Mikey!!!!!
I'm a huge Simpson fan and Bevis and Butthead as well, but I kinda liked King of the Hill. I like that style of drawing and thought it had some funny moments. I think it has a chance to be really good.
Well, just one point.....you are comparing 1st episode "King of the Hill" with 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th season Simpsons. Give it a chance. Although, I'd have to agree that "The Critic" was much funnier....I was sorry to see it go.
Dull? This boy ain't right. He musta been watching something that sucked, like Ren and Stimpy.
Used to love Simpsons...but now the premises of the episodes for the last year or more have been either so far out so as to bear no relationship to "real" life in Homer's household, or so politically correct they make me kinda sick. The old magic has been gone for some time.
Me too! Me too!
Awwww...no PooP, no laffs for you, son? I think it's kinda cool to see what else is in Mike's mind besides Da Boyz. Anyone who can invent Beavis has an awesome intellect.
Mr. Hill is hapless, not boring. There is a difference. I thought he was similar to the lead characters in many British comedies, where life is just what life is, and the main plot is watching some Joe (or Nigel) Average deal with the slings and barbs of outrageous fortune.
The animation is a bit better than the BnB TV show (of course, the movie was just beautiful with all the hand-tinting!), as good as Simpsons, on a par with almost any contemporary animation on TV, and heads and shoulders above 1960s Hanna-Barbera.
Your memory is real short, Twig Boy. The early seasons of BnB didn't feature much character from Da Boyz except huhuhuhuhuh and heheheheheh. It took quite awhile for them to really get their own personalities and quirks. Mike's working with a new partner and with a new concept. Give him a chance or something.
No, we didn't dislike it at all. Our only concern was that people who don't live in Texas might not get it all the way. We know and see people like this every day. Mike said in a phone interview with a reporter from the *Houston Chronicle* that the town was based on Channelview and Humble (right outside Houston). Channelview is home of the Cheerleader Mom Murder For Hire scandal, so rest assured, things will get more interesting once we get to know the characters.
The CRITIC??? The Critic SUCKED in ways that things should not be allowed to suck! You would think that Jon Lovitz would be funny in anything. The Critic proved that theory wrong.
Mike's already made his pile and doesn't really have to go back to anything. I think we're lucky to see him try something new and find out what other kind of humor he has lurking in wait for us.
"King of the Hill" is dark, desperate humor, played out on a mundane stage that showcases its blackness. Instead of icky Politically Correct humor like we have been bashed with on Simpsons of late, I find the incisive political commentary in the first episode of "King" timely and hilarious. It's like Mike took the BnB and the ATF bit just a little further with the CPS and Twig Boy bit.
There have been three prime time cartoons worthy of their time slots: The Flintstones, The Simpsons, and The Critic. In many ways, The Critic is the best of the three. Obviously the humor was over your head.
However, I think many people are going to dismiss King of the Hill too soon, because it's not a fast-paced surreal parody joke fest like The Simpsons and The Critic. It's a comedy of character. Still, the first episode was far from outstanding.
And now you can add King of the Hill to that list. The problem with the Critic was that while it was funny at time it tried to hard to be the Simpsons. The timing was the same and a lot of the gags were interchangable. King of the Hill is it's own show and should be kept on the air if for no other reason than to keep Ned and Stacy off.
Perhaps the person who didn't like The Critic only saw it the second time around. I thought the first run of the show was pretty great, but it was NOT the same show after the hiatus...not unlike the previously great Ned & Stacy.
Yeah. I must be an unsophisticated rube because I don't like stale writing and things that aren't funny. And that cryptic Fred Flintstone!...man, I just *never* got that one either. Caveman as metaphor for Jackie Gleason...far too much for my eentsy cranium to analyze.
(Only pretentious dumbasses feel like they have to tell you that something is "over your head" if you don't agree with their opinion.)
No, I have made several attempts to appreciate it, and it just falls flat. Just like that Dr. Katz that is supposed to be a laff-riot.
And in what universe was "Ned and Stacey" great? This show suffers from the same malaise prevalant throughout sitcoms these days. (1) There is no "acting" going on, simply the reading of lines in snotty tones that are supposed to sound "ironic" and "funny". (2) There is no interaction going on between the characters; these "actors" simply stand across from each other and archly deliver their lines, then react to the big yock on the laugh track. (3) The scripts appear to have been written by college interns. Oh, I take that back. College interns would probably do a better job and write something fresher and funnier than all the stale crap out there on teevee. Every popular sitcom these days, with few exceptions ("Seinfeld" among them, and even it is losing its lustre), is less amusing than dental work. At least they give you something to make you laugh during the dental work. And usually, dental work doesn't go on for weeks on end with no improvement.
And now can we get back to Beavis, Butt-head, and related matters (such as King of the Hill)? (For those of you reading this in atvs and raa, come join us in atvbnb! There's always something funny going on!)
No, that's not it. You just have no sense of humor. Bummer.
Maybe. I'll just stick with the likelihood that you wouldn't know humor if you died laughing.
Well, YOU have spoken.
A universe far, far away from your humorless universe. Come visit us sometime...we're having fun.
I'll say this for you. You are consistent. You consistently make no sense. It's like you have these obnoxious little arguments set up and you just plug them into whatever subject you're discussing, without recognizing how uninformed you appear.
Oh, is this supposed to be funny? My, you're talented.
I'm sure you find yourself quite amusing. Wake the rest of us up when you want to join the real world.
Maybe, but I'm sure you wouldn't recognize it if you saw it.
No. You are a humor zealot. What is humorous to one person is trash to another. Witness B&B and The Simpsons... many people don't get it, but both shows are popular. While The Critic on the other hand....
<snip>
I'll stick with the humor zealot arguement. The show was a failure for good reason.
I also didn't care for it. It was at times funny, but much of the time the gags fell flat. And John L. is funny as a bit player, but when he carries a show he just gets annoying and tiresome. Don't see him as a lead in many movies do you?
The majority of viewers thought so, since it was a failure. The viewers have already spoken. It was a failure... get over it.
We? You and your imaginary friends?
<snip>
Much the same could be said for you.
She's much funnier than you... Therefore, I'd say she has a better sense of humor and is therefore a better judge of comedy shows.
Who is whining about how people as a whole don't like "The Critic"? Grow up. Awww... your favorite show wasn't a success, let's just call everyone who didn't like humorless morons and maybe that will make you feel better.
<Tedious content snipped>
Followups to rec.arts.animation... this thread has nothing to do with The Simpsons or Beavis and Butthead.
Uninformed? About pervasive teevee? Geez, as far as I can see, every man, woman and child in America save the Amish are experts. As a devoted viewer since 1956, I think I have some basis from which to opine.
Hey, I'd take root canal over "Ned and Stacey" any day of the week. But then again, *you* think that is supposed to be funny. To each his/her own.
Sleep on. I'm never joining the real world!
You are EXACTLY the guy the networks are looking for!
Don't change a thing, sweetie. Keep it up and you'll soon be taking meetings in El Lay and foisting dreck upon the airwaves, too.
(There's room for a lot of different kinds of humor. Now let's put this to bed and await next week's episode of King Of The Hill.)
Uninformed? About pervasive teevee? Geez, as far as I can see, every man, woman and child in America save the Amish are experts. As a devoted viewer since 1956, I think I have some basis from which to opine.
Hey, I'd take root canal over "Ned and Stacey" any day of the week. But then again, *you* think that is supposed to be funny. To each his/her own.
Sleep on. I'm never joining the real world!
You are EXACTLY the guy the networks are looking for!
Don't change a thing, sweetie. Keep it up and you'll soon be taking meetings in El Lay and foisting dreck upon the airwaves, too.
(There's room for a lot of different kinds of humor. Now let's put this to bed and await next week's episode of King Of The Hill.)
Uninformed? About pervasive teevee? Geez, as far as I can see, every man, woman and child in America save the Amish are experts. As a devoted viewer since 1956, I think I have some basis from which to opine.
Hey, I'd take root canal over "Ned and Stacey" any day of the week. But then again, *you* think that is supposed to be funny. To each his/her own.
Sleep on. I'm never joining the real world!
You are EXACTLY the guy the networks are looking for!
Don't change a thing, sweetie. Keep it up and you'll soon be taking meetings in El Lay and foisting dreck upon the airwaves, too.
(There's room for a lot of different kinds of humor. Now let's put this to bed and await next week's episode of King Of The Hill.)
Uninformed? About pervasive teevee? Geez, as far as I can see, every man, woman and child in America save the Amish are experts. As a devoted viewer since 1956, I think I have some basis from which to opine.
Hey, I'd take root canal over "Ned and Stacey" any day of the week. But then again, *you* think that is supposed to be funny. To each his/her own.
Sleep on. I'm never joining the real world!
You are EXACTLY the guy the networks are looking for!
Don't change a thing, sweetie. Keep it up and you'll soon be taking meetings in El Lay and foisting dreck upon the airwaves, too.
(There's room for a lot of different kinds of humor. Now let's put this to bed and await next week's episode of King Of The Hill.)
Uninformed? About pervasive teevee? Geez, as far as I can see, every man, woman and child in America save the Amish are experts. As a devoted viewer since 1956, I think I have some basis from which to opine.
Hey, I'd take root canal over "Ned and Stacey" any day of the week. But then again, *you* think that is supposed to be funny. To each his/her own.
Sleep on. I'm never joining the real world!
You are EXACTLY the guy the networks are looking for!
Don't change a thing, sweetie. Keep it up and you'll soon be taking meetings in El Lay and foisting dreck upon the airwaves, too.
(There's room for a lot of different kinds of humor. Now let's put this to bed and await next week's episode of King Of The Hill.)
Uninformed? About pervasive teevee? Geez, as far as I can see, every man, woman and child in America save the Amish are experts. As a devoted viewer since 1956, I think I have some basis from which to opine.
And how does my analysis of most sitcoms "make no sense"? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Bad acting, no interaction between actors, and lousy scripts. You don't have to agree with it, but it surely makes sense.
Hey, I'd take root canal over "Ned and Stacey" any day of the week. But then again, *you* think that is supposed to be funny. To each his/her own.
Sleep on. I'm never joining the real world!
You are EXACTLY the guy the networks are looking for!
Don't change a thing, sweetie. Keep it up and you'll soon be taking meetings in El Lay and foisting dreck upon the airwaves, too.
(There's room for a lot of different kinds of humor. Now let's put this to bed and await next week's episode of King Of The Hill.)
eheheheh heheheheh...yeah! or too many "Singled Out" epichoads during the past few months.
I still have a dear affection for (hehehmeheheh, "love") the Simpsons...
Me three, me three!
This is quite a departure from BnBH--yet, it is a good way to start. I do recognize one name from the BnBH show, "Dale"...remember when the boys filled in at the poker game? Dale was there and he was at the VFW or something too. I also liked the guy that mumbled everything! I KNOW people just like that and that is what got me the most. :)
There is indeed a difference Kathy! I agree that the character is hapless in that kind of way that most men are. hahahahahaha! __just kidding!!!__
I thought that the animation quality was better than BnB too, yet I don't have much to compare them to anymore except a couple of moranathon tapes.
eheh heheheh meheheh! Yeah, like he has to be creative and think and stuff...ewww!
Whoa! That rules Kathy! I had forgotten about the Channelview area! ehehemeheheheh!
The Critic? Wasn't that the terribly boring show featuring "The Worst Of Jon Lovitz"? Poor guy. It kind of reminds me of those old records that Bill Shatner and Lenny Nimoy made during the Star Trek (original) era. hahaha! Just something to come back to haunt poor Jon for the rest of his natural cartoon daze.
Seriously...Mike Judge would like, have to really-really-really-really really, etc screw up for me to lose interest in what's between his ears!
Ms. Diemer,
Thank you for your excellent representation of uhh...wait a minute...ehemehehehehe thinking SUCKS!
In a previous article, [email] (Kathy Diemer) says:
I was afraid that would be the case (the previews and commercials
protrayed this show in a very negative light for me) but that was only
half of the case. It was very slow to start (the baseball game was a
low point for me) but by the end, things juiced up quite a bit. So on the
whole, I marginally recommend it.
And that R&S comment is awfully harsh, don't you think. We'd
rather not start a beanfield war here on rec.arts.animation as to the
taste of some folks in animation.
Aside from the political correctness comment, I'd agree with you. The X-Files episode that preceeded King of the Hill was one of the Series most languid. Of course, being the Simpsons, that's a commendable statement for most television shows. That's another post, though...
I'll only disagree with you on the "on par with almost any contemporary animation on TV" part. KotH to me *IS* B&B; barely a step above Dr. Katz's "Squigglevision"in most spots. trust me, I'm not much of a Ren & Stimpy fan, but I don't feel that KotH's animation is anything more than functional. it worked for the most basic sight gags, but nothing more. I mean, I could probably think of 40 or 50 animated shows with animation topping KotH (though many are action shows). That's a nitpick, and I'd rather not start a war myself, thank you. "
I admit my sinful ways for watching some of the Games blasphemous incarnations of Ren & Stimpy, to to insinuate that the original Spumco toons were shite???? You and I are gonna tangle!!!!
Ya know, I think its those totally far off premises that are keeping the show so funny...Springfield just keeps plunging deeper into insanity...and Homer just keeps getting stupider.
I agree that Mike Judge's talents go beyond "huh huh hu huh". It isn't just toilet humor that I enjoy. To me it just seemed like the lines in King of The Hill were just being read off paper for the most part and the delivery of humor just wasn't done right...I realize the characters are supposed to be somewhat lethargic, but...
Well I don't like too much British comedy some maybe that has some connection to why I didn't find King of The Hill too amusing.
Well of course it's better than 1960's Hanna-Barbera!!! ^_^ But it's not nearly as good as The Simpsons. First off the character design is so generic in King Of The Hill and no one has any sort of expression whatsoever! The Simpsons have a ton of expressions and movements that give them so much more character, and even makes them more human. When watching King of the Hill the characters all seemed like robots.
Well in the end of my post I stated that I WOULD give the show a chance to find itself...so there :P
So there's 49 states worth of people who possible might not get it. You do realize this is a nationally broadcasted show?
What about the Critic sucked? There were so many funny things about that show...from the Easter Island kids with the stone heads to pretty much anything Duke did. But, you have every right to not like The Critic, as I have every right not to like King Of The Hill (so far, my opinion might change).
Yes I'm glad that he's trying something new too, as it would really suck to have to be tied to the same set of characters his whole life. I just thought a new show of his would be just a tad bit twisted like the rest of his stuff, especially in character design. All his past characters such as Inbread Jed, Milton, and Beavis and Butt-Head all were just so odd looking that the design alone made them funny. His voices made these characters even funnier! To me, all the characters in King of The Hill have the look of the generic extras that were used in Beavis & Butt-head.
I don't see much about The Simpsons that's politically correct...Homer's recent hallucination with a chili could be likened to an acid trip...where's the PC in that?
Please not also that I'm not bashing the show...I just expected it to turn out a bit differently...I will still watch it as long as it's on and I really hope it turns out to be something great. We'll see what happens after the initial 13 ep. run.
Okay, I admit that the original R&S toons were pretty kewl and that I used to watch them. But remember that R&S supplanted BnB on eMpTyVee for far too long. It was salt in the wound in addition to later R&S sucking.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. To me, the thing that makes both BnB and classic Simpsons the funniest is the microscope on the weirdness that is just beneath the surface in "everyday" life.
You have a point there, to a point. It was kind of like watching one of the first Seinfelds (or other classics like Cheers and Taxi), where the characters were pretty funny, but hadn't had a chance to meld yet. Mike knows how to do that kind of redneck humor right (witness Phone Sex Lady, and of course obviously Anderson). It's in the getting the dosage correct for America At Large.
That may be so, though it is possible that others may think I'm way off on my "British dark comedy" theory of KOTH.
I think it's more an issue of Matt's art style versus Mike's art style. I don't think either one is "better". It's just different.
Admitted.
Yeah, we wonder about that too. Another opiner on the topic mentioned that he was glad that he had closed-captioning, else he wouldn't have understood most of the show. I'm honestly not sure how far this show can go nationally (outside of BnB and Simpsons fans who will probably watch it anyway) unless they really do hit a common chord with people elsewhere. It's like that "Chicken Soup" show with Jackie Mason a few years back. I got a couple of yocks out of it, having been raised and lived some of my adult life in New York City, but I told myself, "This will never play in Peoria". And it didn't.
Well, to tell the truth, it was for me sort of like your comments on the first KOTH...something about "to me it just seemed like the lines... were just being read off paper for the most part and the delivery of humor just wasn't done right". I also liked Jon Lovitz very much on SNL, and was quite disappointed that The Critic was so flat.
You DO have a point there. But remember that we are accustomed to watching BnB. To someone who has never seen BnB before, it probably looks completely different. I think the trick of KOTH is that the twistedness is going to be done through the dialog. Wow! Dialog! I for one miss it so in current teevee. (So many shows these days are going in for terribly unfunny physical slapstick comedy, just to get around the fact that the scripts and actors suck. I can watch Buster Keaton or Charlie Chaplin or the Stooges do it right if this is what I want.)
It's not all the time (thank goodness, or I would have to give Simpsons up...). I just get irritated when Lisa is going on her vegetarian tangent, or when they're trying to showcase some liberal PC attitude-of-the-week. (Halt! Before thou slingest arrows, know that I am a card-carrying liberal and would sooner die than vote Republican! What I object to in Simpsons when they go down that road is the ham-handedness with which they do it. They are not winning hearts and minds...they're preaching to the choir and pissing some members off.)
I read in another post from someone who allegedly knows people involved with the show that the first three episodes are a little slow on the uptake, but then they really start to rock.
(My, this has been a refreshing discussion! Keep posting your KOTH stuff to atvbnb...I for one enjoy your discourse!)
If anyone did not atlest find that funny, they do not have any sense of humor. :) Rob Merritt Might and Magic lives at http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/homm.html
"If you got to have delusions, you might as well have the really satisfying ones.", Marcus - Babylon 5
Hey! At least you guys got that one! I got every other joke... but that one had me stuck until the next day... I thought the husband said two years, instea d of TWELVE years... guess how stupid I looked at work asking if the kid was adopted or somethin...
Other than that, I thought the show was hilarious. and REAL....
King of the Hill sucks. It's good that it's not funny cuz now there's less chance it will take Mike Judge away from Beavis and Butthead. The show is too respectful to the characters, compared to Beavis and Butthead and even the Simpsons. This sunday's episode about how the parents are embarassed about sex education was really mild and it's a really old, lame sitcom topic. The characterization wasn't convincing.
Again, it's not a "bust-a-gut-funny" show like B&B is.
But there was plenty of humor to go around, and the situation seemed REAL to me. I especially found the Conspiracy Guy to be the source of some real laughs... especially when he calls up the Hill residence to try to intimidate Mrs. Hill out of teaching the Sex Ed class, then asks Mr. Hill to do something for him in just about the same breath.
Mrs. Hill trying to psych herself out to say "penis" and "vagina" and other words like that was also hilarious.
KOTH is turning out to be a good, if not spectacular show. Although Plus One's animation on this episode was not as good as the work Rough Draft Korea did on the first.
OK, after showing my dissappointment with the first ep of King Of The Hill, I have to say that I found last nights show very funny!!! Especially following a somewhat lacking Simpsons episode. Since the show was about sex-education, that automatically gave the show some insta-laughs. I think the part that did it for me was when Peggy asked Bobby how much he knew about sexual relations..."Not much....I'm a little concerned about being a slut." BWAAHAHAHAAA...My friends and I were on the ground laughing for five minutes straight! Another good one was when Boomhauher was rambling while cutting down branches "blahblahblah-condom machine-blahblahblah-my 50 cents in-blahblahblahblah-pounded the top of it-blahblahblahblah-talk about her feelin's." One thing I notices were a few Buttheadisms...I found it funny, but I don't know whether other people will...the kid sitting next to Bobby on the bench WAS Butt-Head, minus the lisp.."we get to see your mom's boobs". Also, when Peggy was practicing "Happines...happppines....hap penis", that was from a B&B episode, "Uh huh huh huh...you said penis". Anyway, if the show keeps up like this I'll be happy! I still don't like the character design, but Kathy mentioned that the dialog will drive it. I agree with that. It's what the characters say that will make the show work.
Moral of the story: Don't judge a show by it's pilot.
I'd have to agree with this. I wasn't impressed with the pilot, myself (although I did like Hank's run-in with that store clerk), but I enjoyed the second episode. My roommate and I were both ROFL after Hank spat out his beer.
I think King of the Hill has a chance to become the companion show to the Simpsons that I've been waiting to find for years. Out of all the crap that Fox has put on after the Simpsons, only The Critic was decent in my mind -- and that was canceled after only half a season. At least now I don't have to turn the TV off after the Simpsons are over.
BTW, I can see the "What's In and What's Out on Fox" list now: "In: Peggy Hill; Out: Peggy Bundy."
I have an observation on KotH. First, have you noticed that both plots so far have had to do with the tension between Southerners and The Rest of USA? First it was some young child-protection guy from LA who didn't understand what was going on. (Had to be from LA, right?) Then it was sex education, which is encouraged and funded by the Fed. govt. I'm waiting for a show on racism where people talk about how the feds 'don't understand how we do things down here.'
Secondly, in both shows, neither side was 100% right. I heard a writer from the Simpsons once in a radio interview say that their aim is not to push one particular political idea, but to show that they are all silly, so at the end of the show they sort of cancel each other out. He used as an example (this was a few years ago) the episode where Marge protests the violence in Itchy and Scratchy cartoons, then is shocked to find that the movement she started won't allow Michelangelo's David to be displayed.
This seems to be happening in KotH also! The sex education was a sort of parody of _real_ sex education (where do they teach 10-year-olds about the '14 stages of arousal'?) And the protest against sex ed was also sort of over-the-top. In the end, the show wasn't about whether it was right or wrong, only how silly the arguments were on both sides!
KotH just doesn't 'grab' me, like the Simpsons did from the beginning. I liked The Critic better also. But you're right, you can't judge it by one or even two episodes. It's on after the Simposns, so I'll be watching it every week, just because I'm sitting there. 8^)
Hey, I live in Louisiana, and all I gotta say is that it's about time. It seems that just about every show that comes out is either about L.A. or New York. I hate to disturb the writers of these series and their little hip urban worlds, but HELLO, there are other places on the earth, ya know!?
But that's okay, I can like some urban sitcoms (I enjoy Seinfield for instance). But Hollywood screenwriters have a habit of writing urban dwellers as smart good looking open-minded rich super models, and southerners are often potrayed as nothing more than inbred illiterate bigoted Ku Klux Klan associates.
Sure, King of the Hill panders to these stereotypes (the guy paranoid of the UN, for instance). But, it freshly shows the flip side of this, like all the overly PC 'twiggys' out there.
Relax, people, it's just a cartoon. To tell, you the truth, I'm more like 'twiggy' or the wal-mart clerk in the first episode, not one of the propane selling he-men of the south. I'm a skinny, nerdy geek who's never touched a power tool in his life. But do I scream 'Oh no, look, their making fun of me on this show'? No. I appreciate the humor of exaggeration and get on with my life.
I guess it doesn't bother me as much since I live in the south, and not in L.A. But I've sure seen enough shows where people in the south were shown as bigots, crooks, and idiots (real idiots, not the lovable semi-idiots in King of the Hill). Some of Hollywoods caricatures of southerners can be quite cruel at times. But do I get my drawers in a twist? No, I chuck it aside and take it for it is, TV. Now that 'dem city slickers' are getting a dose of their own medicine, their crying 'fowl'. A few suggestions: Watch some episodes of FRIENDS, Seinfield, and 90210 and call me in the morning. Then you should feel better, twiggy. (-;
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I have to differ with you slightly when you say that King of the Hill panders to stereotypes (or at least so far; after all, the show has only been on for two episodes). Sure, the guy who thinks everything is a U.N. plot and the guy who you absolutely cannot understand *anything* he says (or at least I can't) are like that, but they're fairly minor characters.
One of the things I like about KotH is that it *doesn't* go for the cheap, snide humor. Before I saw it, the possibility crossed my mind that the premise of the whole show would be something on the order of, "Look at these dumb red-necks" (or, as Homer Simpson might put it, "It's funny because they talk differently from us"), but I think that by and large, they avoid falling into that syndrome, which, IMHO, isn't enough to sustain a whole show, anyway.
Sunday's episode (which I really liked) was a good example of what I mean. It could very easily have turned into a snotty, patronizing, condescending, "Look at these dumb red-necks -- can you believe how ignorant and repressed they are -- Peg can't even say the word 'penis' -- LouAnne is a bimbo", etc., etc., etc. Instead I thought it handled the whole thing well, for the most part. I felt sympathetic and compassionate toward both parents (especially Peg), and I thought the way the kids partly didn't understand what was going on (e.g., Bobby thought that once you had sex ed, you couldn't play games anymore because you'd have to spend all your time dating and having sex) and partly thought the whole thing was a big fuss about nothing (which it was, sort of) was right on the money.
I think this has the potential to be a really good show, but they're definitely going to have to get closed captioning for that blond guy.
Yeah, I mean, all my teachers always told me to do what I like and to be proud of what Im good at and stuff...so why not be proud of spanking your monkey when youre good at it?
I'm sure she has big boobs and now fondles them constantly, and never leaves the house.
Dedi, you need to find a chick who like can't masturbate very well. Like some chick with like Parkinsonism or something. I hear Janet Reno is available... ehehehehe...
I dunno... I think their hands keeps slipping off and their limbs get stiff and stuff. Butt your right, that once they find that spot, the tremblin' must be like a human vibrator or something
I was very disappointed in the second episode. The sex-ed theme generated lots of cheap laughs, but there was no meat (no pun intended). In the first episode:
The neighbors' kid with the same complexion as the wife's "migraine therapist."
Peggy's Texas-accented Spanish.
The "funny phone jerks" tape.
The verbal abuse of Van Driessen -- er, the butinsky social worker. What was that term that both Hill and the guy on the bus called him? (my reception was not very good that night)
To me, the funniest part of the second episode were the threatening phone calls from the neighbor.
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:43:02 -0600, Alfredo wrote:
That was the only thing remotely resembling humor.
You know what would be a funny episode is if a serial killer tortured and killed that whole family and ended tha phucking stupid series. This is like a cartoon version of Father knows Best or Leave it To Beaver.
Like Mike Judge is a real guy with a real sense of humor who made a great cartoon, beavis and butthead. Then along come a bunch of corporate geeks who take the lamest characters from b&b and give them really lame series that are afraid to offend anybody. They should all burn in hell.
You sir, are the man. Finally there's someone around here with some balls. You sir, have hit the nail on the head. Send those geek bastards into an eternal pool of fire . . . fire . . . FIRE . . . F I R E . . . FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIRE!!!!!!!
I found their annunciation very annoying, sometimes it very difficult to understand what they were saying. For me, turning on the closed captioning was a must. Once I could understand what they were saying, I was able to laugh at the jokes.
I think you mean E-nunciation (unless you were annoyed by the portrayal of the angel Gabriel proclaiming the conception of the Christ child, in which case I must have been using the john during that scene).
I thought KOH was pretty funny and Texans DO talk that way. If the show proves to be worth watching, you'll get used to the accent and even find yourself talking that way sometimes. The Texas accent is capable of expressing certain sorts of disdain and/or confusion that are very useful. "What're yew talkin' 'bout, Son?" will become as much a part of your vocabulary as "D'Oh!" and "Woo Hoo!" and "Mmmmm" already are.
I didn't mind the Texas accents; they seemed authentic to me, and that's fine.
I DID mind the fact that everyone in the show was an idiot. Mike Judge seems to have no love or understanding of humanity at all. The whole thing looked like a bad parody of that awful short-lived Tom Arnold sitcom where he was a pig farmer, or shade tree mechanic, or whatever the hell he was doing. Add to that the one-dimensional Texas Militia paranoiac and you have a pretty ugly mess. Television did intelligent, humane rural characters on the sitcom "Alice" back in the 80's...apparently Judge was living a Butt-head life in that decade and didn't learn a thing.
Why didn't Fox swallow its pride and buy "Duckman" from USA? There, the characters are parodies, but loving ones. And there's considerable topical humor as well. Better than spending money on this show.
Yeah...everybody on television is some kind of idiot!
John! I didn't think about how politically incorrect this cartoon was until you mention it here! oh nonononono! I cannot support any cartoon that does not help the environment or send a special moral message to our youth. Thank you for showing the err of my ways...
That's what Roger Ebert calls an "idiot plot." And believe it or not, people in sitcoms are not as dumb as all that. Only people who want to forward the belief that all people are idiots and deserve to die (like Stanley Kubrick in "Dr. Strangelove") really push the point the way Mike Judge does.
An artist is what his work says he is. (In fact, that's what art is all about.) Despite their essential silliness, The Simpsons are not idiots; beneath their apparent dysfunction, they love one another and are decent people. If I only had "Life in Hell" to judge Matt Groenig about, I'd say Groenig is antisocial, but "The Simpsons" is evidence to the contrary.
Well, so far Mike Judge has produced a couple of brain-dead jerks whose whole existence is based in their jerkiness, and this family of anti-Southern cliches whose only reason for living together is to keep the series going. That's all he's done.
But you're right; I am jumping the gun. So is everyone else who delivered an opinion on a series, based on the first episode. But people are like that in every rec.arts group. So I'm glad to share the guilt about it.
And I wasn't making a claim for political correctness; I was talking about how characters relate to one another. Everybody doesn't have to love everyone else, but there should be sufficient reason for love or hate. I didn't see it in "King of the Hill."
(Oh, and by the way, Strong John, I don't dislike you at all; you're right to call me on the carpet, but I needed to rebut my arguments.)
oh puleeeze! eheheh hehemeheheh! "Alice" was intelligent and humane? bwahahaha! Mel, the self-described macho militant at the resturant? Flo, the ditzy-overwhelmingly droll suthern speakin' idiot? Alice? What about her made her intelligent? Was it how she disciplined Tommy? Bwahahahaha! (again for emphasis) What if you lived somewhere like...uh, Georgia? Everytime someone mentions something about Georgia, they never forget the "Deliverance"!
Hey baby... like, Fox would have had to swallow much more than it's pride...
Don't move to Texas then. What made it so funny is that there are people on my street that are identical to the characters and I could really relate to it. The annunciation is dead on accurate for some Texans.
IMHO, the show didn't work because it was sloooow and extremely low on laughs. I guffawed all the way through Beavis and Butt-head's movie, but this show just seems to transplant Anderson to a new locale with no one to play off his uptight, dim-witted, frustrated personality. Everybody in the cast seemed uptight, dim-witted and frustrated. No contrast=no comedy. The Anderson vs. B and B battles were in the best comic tradition of rotten kids vs. uptight neighbors. Hank Ketcham mined this territory for years. I expected something a hell of a lot edgier from Judge, something without a smarmy, sitcommy feel-good tag. Disappointing.
Well,that is what sets Hank Hill apart from Anderson. Anderson is nothing more than foible, a two-demensional character created to bounce B&B off of. While they both have the same voice and mannerisms, Hank Hill is a different more developed character. Like you said, Anderson is a modern day Mister Wilson, but Hank Hill is more along the lines of Archie Bunker. He is the kind of middle-class blue collar guy that gets easily fed up with all of today's crap. Instead of having two trouble making teenagers to get on his nerves, Hank Hill is more the type of guy who just comes into conflict with just about anybody he meets. Thats where the contrast/comedy aspect comes into play. A good example is when he goes into the mock 'Wal-Mart' to get some WD-40 and the Gen X store clerk doesn't even know where the hardware section is. At that point good ol' Hank loses it and gives the clerk a piece of his mind. That's the kind of character he is, the lovable fed up jerk. Never since Ralph Kradmen has this type of character been done so well (except for ,ofcourse, Archie Bunker).
What do you want? A middle age suburban Butthead who works a 9 to 5 job? No, this is a NEW idea! It's DIFFERENT! It's a refreshing change, too. IMHO Beavis and Butthead goes too much for the shock value, and while funny, it gets old after awhile. This show seems to have characters who really have personality, and you laugh at them because of their quirks and foibles. Maybe that's why some people on the net don't think the show is that funny. They probably want Hank to watch music videos and say ''Huh, huh, huh, that chick has,like, big thingies, huh, huh.'' Well that's not what makes Hank funny. What's funny is watching him almost pop a blood vessel when he gets mad at the child care worker or the store clerk.
Well, I've just seen one episode. So I can't go on like the whole series is a gem. Hopefully they can keep up the good writing that the first episode had, and not fall to the gimmicks of B&B.
snip- an�nun�ci�a�tion n. 1. The act of announcing. 2. An announcement; a proclamation. 3. Annunciation.a. The angel Gabriel's announcement to the Virgin Mary of the Incarnation. b. The Christian feast celebrating this event.
You're a wussie, English school boy; that you've never heard the word before is to be expected, but you're correct about its misuse. However, we usually don't give a rat's ass about those things around here, so take a pill er sumthing.
Who rattled your fucking cage, Thomas Reed? I have two degrees and have earned six figure salaries since I was twenty-six years old, I'm thirty-seven now . . . you do the math. What the fuck have you done lately, asshole? Still living off mommy and daddy?
By the way: "Be glad to get an education while you're dishing out soggy french fries" is a nonsensical, fragmented sentence, dillweed. And you hacked the spelling of the word which seems to be the embodiment of your intellect. It's proper spelling is "ignorance," dumbass. Maybe you'd do well to concentrate on your own education and keep your nose out of other people's business. Stupid prick . . .
I found it more to be "gee it I laughed once" and I found it had very little if anything to do with the Simpsons, except that it followed the Simpsons on the same channe.
I should note that, like the Critic before it, King of the Hill isn't on-topic on alt.tv.simpsons just because the shows share producers and the same night on FOX. I would imagine this is also true of a.t.bnb, but that's really their decision.
For King of the Hill discussion, use rec.arts.animation or rec.arts.tv.
Shut up, Jim. An isolated King of the Hill post is just fine in this
group, since (1) it shares a producer, (2) it comes on after the
Simpsons, (3) Simpsons readers might be interested - ergo all the
followup posts, and (4) KotH doesn't have its own NG yet.
You're obviously a frustrated little man who gets no respect at work,
is beaten by your wife, and sees the internet as your one opportunity
in life to boss people around. Well, take it somewhere else,
bunghole.
Touche. I guess now isn't the time to go into how one in general hears what is said and reads what is written.
Just to bring this post somewhat back on topic, I submit the following.
New rules to consider for the a.t.s. drinking game:
Drink once each time a production code appears in the subject line of a post (alternate, drink once per distinct p-code per day.)
Drink once for each message telling of a TV station that airs the Simpsons twice per day.
Drink twice anytime somebody refers to "Mike Hunt" or "Jack Coff" as a prank phone call to Moe.
My pet theory on why you can't pinpoint Springfield:
Recall from the Thelma and Louise sendup the line, "...I'm directly under the earth's sun... now!" The only state where you can observe the sun directly overhead is Hawaii. Ruth and Marge were driving to the state line, and presumably they are sharp enough to realize that driving into the Pacific isn't going to get them very far. That more or less rules out all 50 states.
(Of course, Ruth COULD have been driving an old time Springfield Aqua-Car, and it IS a little dicey to treat every utterance by Chief Wiggum as if he were the Pope speaking ex cathedra...)
This last lame bit is for the b-n-b newsgroup, which I don't read and have never posted to before.
Tom, aka Jack Momma
-If I could move my arm that fast, I'd never leave the house.
Be that as it may, it might be time to get started on an alt.tv.king.of.the.hill or something...
I'm getting just a little annoyed at listening to all you fartknockers. I missed the show so I can't say much either way, aside from the fact that this is only one show, and most of you are all expecting way too much.
Both B&B and the Simpsons had much more humble beginnings in both animation style and writing. If viewers/producers hadn't given the shows a chance, you wouldn't be watching them today.
Okay, yes he is just a younger Mr. Anderson with more friends and a son.
Actually, the animation is better than B&BH's. Did you see the scene where they are looking under Hill's hood. The camera is looking from under the hood. The alternator and belt drivers were drawn pretty cool, I think. And Hill's friend was shining a flashlight. When he moved it you could see what kind of effort went into making the proper shadows and lighting under the hood. I thought it was pretty awesome.
No. The characters were all very distinct. I learned them all very quickly.
Um, maybe that's the POINT? That's what these people are - and it's pretty damn funny to watch. Of course it's not the Simpsons or B&BH, but that's GOOD. Can't you judge something for what it is rather than simple-mindedly having to COMPARE everything to your favorites?
KOTH was an interesting show...It was good enough(IMO) to watch again next week. You have to remember that only one episode has been aired. When MTV did that preview week of B&B, I didn't like it-but now I love the show.
I really liked king of the hill. As far as the accents being hard to understand, I think the blond-headed guy is supposed to be hard to understand, and I thought he was really funny. And I died laughing at the scene where he was making the bacon sandwich and used the bacon grease instead of mayo -- I have an uncle who used to do that (he lives in San Antonio). I think a lot of people from metropolitan areas won't understand the subltlety of the humor --- they'll just say "It's a bunch of hicks." Life is slower in small towns, but it doesn't make it any less funny. I think King Of The Hill could prove to be a classic.
The scene that impressed me was when they were driving to the ball game. We see scenery zooming past, a shadow pass over the car, then an overpass go into the distance. Kind of cool.
What I thought about KotH - solid writing, which is nice. There were quite a few times that the story could have turned into a frustratingly bad Three's Company episode, but it didn't. The show's humor is about how these characters live their lives, not scene after scene of "THIS is a joke, THIS is a joke, THIS is a joke" with not much of a story to hold it together. This describes some of the more recent Simpsons episodes, which is probably why I'm not laughing at the Simpsons as hard as I used to. Anyway, finding humor in the lives of the characters of KotH is difficult if you can't relate to them. If you live in Texas you most likely can. For me, it will take two or three more weeks, probably. I hope the rest of the nation gives it that chance because I feel this will be a very satisfying show once the characters flesh out.
Yes, I noticed the overpass too. I was idly trying to guess how long of a loop the scenery was when this shadow appeared, then it became a bridge. I was quite impressed that anyone would bother with such a detail.
I know what you're talking about. I hated how the whole point of every 3C episode was lack of communication due to stupidity and assumptions compounding on itself until it finally ended up with some embarassing scene at the end of the episode. In this KOTH it was just a set-up plot device, not some every-episode cliche. The kid holding back the info about the phone call deliberately was the reverse of 3C, because he knew exactly what he was doing and what the results would be.
Sort of a demonstration of Aggiebonics, eh? I liked how they started by getting another round of beers, then they did a fast forward in front of the street of another four or so rounds! I think the core of Mike Judge's humor is that he doesn't add fluff when he can make a point quickly. Which he *had* to do in the time-limited B&B format. Such as the "where are we gonna get two bucks for new batteries?"/<cut to pile of deposit soda cans> scene in B&B.
Uh-Oh. Here comes Darren with his green haired friends!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Kinash
Carleton University
Although the character may look similar to Anderson, I think Hank Hill has enough personality of his own that a person can get behind him. I won't say so positively until I've seen a few more episodes, but I found myself liking Hank pretty quickly.
Actually, I think Film Roman did some pretty nice work. The background details in particular were well done; the KOTH characters just don't move around as much, so there isn't (or at least wasn't in the first episode) much chance to test the animation quality.
I don't think the characters on KOTH are "'uninspired' and plain". They are not caricatures like the folks on The Simpsons and Beavis And Butt-Head, but they do have distinct looks, personalities, and voices. I didn't have any trouble telling Hank from the rambling neighbor from the imbecile neighbor from the Child Protection Services head, for example.
It's much too early to tell, but Hank could shape up to be one of the more interesting characters I've seen in animation. He's got a real personality, not just a bunch of quirks. It'll be interesting to see how well the rest of the characters are put together.
Well, the folks I know that have been working on the series say that (the their opinion) the first three shows are the worst, and then it starts to get pretty funny. So hang in there.
On another subject, does anybody know how many KotH episodes are slated to air? 6, or 13? I won't comment on the show itself until I see a couple more episodes... usually by the 3rd episode, you know how a show's gonna go. I doubt it'll live very long though.
There's only 3 years left! The Pilgrim Age is dawning!!!
The show has an initial run of 13 episodes. Below are some of the plots of the shows I've caught so far. I put in some spoiler (albeit fairly minor ones) space just in case you'd rather not know. I thought you might want to know where the show is heading so far in terms of what can be done with the characters. Not much harm in that.
S E M I
S P O I L E R
A L E R T
For what it's worth (not much), I'll throw in my opinion of each show.
-Peggy takes a substitute teaching job as a sex-ed teacher, and Bobby happens to be in the class. But Peggy was brought up the old-fashioned way and finds it hard to discuss the related issues. It's my favorite so far, so you can toss the rest of my opinions out the window if you end up hating it.
-Hank and his buds take the children out to the woods in a mock Indian ceremony. It's basically done as a joke to the parents-- it happened to Hank & Co. when they were kids, and now they get to have a little fun with it. Bobby takes it a little too serious, however, and wacky hijinx ensue. It started off kinda slow for me but picked up steam in the last half. Great scene showing tree-hugging hippies displaying their combat skills.
-Luana (sp?) breaks up with her biker boyfriend. Hank goes crazy when she can't get over the breakup. He reluctantly helps her try to find a new and better one. 'Nuff said. It's my second favorite so far.
-Hank is concerned over Bobby's lack of a role model/hero, and an attempt to get Bobby out of the house and off his Gameboy ends up in Hank meeting his own hero. I thought it was rather weak, although Boomhauer's short chat with a well-known mumbling singer (the voice on the show isn't the actual singer's) had me laughing in tears almost.
Guest voices have been kept to a minimum so far. I'll stay mum on that issue although it's probably no big deal. Although it hasn't been perfect (but what show is?), I've been fairly impressed so far. I'm glad to see that Mike Judge can play it both harsh and subtle with B&B and KOTH. But I'm afraid that the teen/ B&B desensitized crowd just isn't going to put up with the subtler tone, family-oriented situations, and slower pace. What counts most to the network and advertisers, however, is the 18-49 crowd. KOTH did very well in that demographic in its premiere. And it has a much better chance of holding the Simpsons audience than any Ned & Stacey episode could. I hope it has a solid run. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Pessimists are optimists with experience"-- Chuck Daly, TV basketball analyst/ex-coach
I might hang in there...but will the audience? Starting out with weak episodes is a bad idea. That causes the audience to levy the judgement "This is no good" and tune to something else.
If the producers had stronger ones in the can, they should have started with them. And if they got caught in a crunch to finish the episodes on time (a problem even Disney seems to have this year) they should have asked Fox to delay the premiere. Now the show is probably doomed.