I wonder what it's like to be Janet Reno today?

Janet Reno, shuffling and spasming down the hallway, muttering things to herself like "Miami sucks. Viva Fidel. That payoff better be ready or else. mmmummblemummblemummble". Almost everyone's gotten used to this by now. And those that have'nt take comfort in knowing that regardless of the outcome of the elections, she'll be cleaning out her desk by this time next year anyway.

Seeing a few of her underlings standing at break around the coffeepot, and she raises a quirky-jerky hand to greet them as she shuffles by.

She sees them looking at her very oddly. Sure, she's almost grown accustomed to having them look at her odd. But this was a certain kind of odd. Not even the "Oh my God! You killed Koresh! You bastard!" look she used to get.

This was a peculiar look they gave her. One of respect for a superior, but also with a tint of amusement. One of them even was biting his lower lip, as if he was trying desparately to contain something that was boiling up inside of him, ready to burst out.

Still, she thinks nothing of it, and shuffles on towards her office, resuming her mutterings. Even as she closes the door and faintly hears a sudden outburst of belly-laughs down the hall where she walked, she prefers to lock it and reach into her desk for her love letter from Castro and takes advantage of her continiously vibrating fingers.

You're a fucking dork on this Castro thing. You've bought into the Dulles Brothers Special Line-O-Crap like a good little ewe. We drove him into Soviet arms. The guy was also at the top of his law class at a prestigious US university in the '40s and Batista threw him in prison for attempting legal action after Batista's coup. Oh but the US loved Batista because he'd show us his open asshole whenever we got horny. So tell me about Arbenz the Antichrist and Allende the Evil one while you're at it. Or read up on US history.

D.G. "Thinking of Che Guevara makes me hard & throbbing" Porter wrote:

WTF with a scoop of shit-flavored ice cream is bringing out THAT little outurst, dude?

Oh, I get it. You're a SYMP!!

Well, if you MUST know my opinion, Fidel took over Cuba as a sort of temper-tantrum simply because he did'nt get picked to play in some shitheel US baseball team. Had he been picked, he would have had maybe a few years in the majors (and thus being too busy to make mischief back home) and eventually retired to Orlando to torment his grandkids with stories about the days when he was a hotshit star (but never made any of the kind of money today's players make).

BUT, he was found to be a crappy player. As a result, "da Man" became his enemy, and he's had Mothra up his ass about it ever since.

Elian was getting the fuckover by all parties involved, but remember, it was Fidel who opened up his orafice first and started this mess. Anything to mess with Uncle Sam seemed to be it's own good enough reason in Castro's opinion. Therefore, anything that annoys Fidel should also be it's own good enough reason to do it. Maybe in the middle of buggering sweet tender Elian the night he steps off the plane in Havana, Fidel will croak from a heart attack.

YES!! Or Pinochet or Suharto or Reagan (they all belong in the same pit)...

Yes, gather up your evil, your depots, your vicious masses scheming to bring tyranny! All must be hurled into the pit! Reagan! Bush (all three of 'em)! Robertson! Hussein! Olsen! Gifford! Into the abyss they all must go!

[oooooh,my that felt good to say]

Thank you, George Bush was the biggest fascist of all....and if his son wins the upcoming election, you're all screwed! (and the rest of the world too most likely...)

Hell declare wars on the middle east countries and steal the oil It might not a bad thing "dbf" wrote in message news:[email]...

In article , [email] (dbf) writes:

What are you smoking? I'd like a hit off it.

Ask DUH!-bya. He has a whole kilo in his limo, most likely.

I remember seing his daddy on TV that night... "We bought this baggie of cocaine right across the street from the White House. <SNORT!!!!> AUGH, that's good blow! <SNOGGG!> WOW! And I'm puttin' it right here, in my left coat pocket, before George W. and Jeb get 'hold of it, 'cause there won't be any left fer me once they do ... let's just check this again <SNERCK!!!> Oh WAAOWWW!!!!! NNNNNG! <SWOGK!> HNH!"

Nah, he's not a smoker, he's a snorter.

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Hee hee. There's a prediction in a tabloid that Cuba will become the 51st U.S. state next year, after Fidel croaks. Ha ha.

--- Willie Westwood

But 50 is such a nice round number.....maybe they will need to combine North and South Carolina into one state, Carolina, so that Cuba can be annexed and the US remains with 50 states

In article , [email] (Willie Westwood) wrote:

dbf wrote in message news:[email]...

That would be funny. Even funnier if Texas decided to split itself into 2 states right after just to piss you off.

On another note, The New York Post reported today that Janet Reno is going to be on Oprah on Tuesday.

Then the paper mentioned the SP ep this past week and the irony of this real-life outcome.

Do M&T have their fingers on the pulse of the popular culture, or what?

"Cheryl3b" wrote in message news:[email]...

More like a finger firmly jammed up popular culture's ass.

And they never fail to find a polyp or two each week, don't they? <g>

<<We drove him into Soviet arms>>

Ditto Ho Chi Min- into China's arms. He was a great admirer of our constitution and democratic form of government, but we spurned him in place of a series of imperialistic and/or despotic regimes.

We never learn.

In article ,

Actually, he "drove" himself into the Russia's arms. There has been centuries of mistrust between Vietnam and China, the most notable in recent history is the war between the two countries in 1979.

This is taken out of context. He was not a great admirerer of Lockian sstyle of government. It would be a serious contradiction for a Maxist to support a democratic form of government. He was a great admirerer of American nationalism that is evident in the Constitution.

And I don't believe the US put a despotic regime in North Vietnam - only the South.

Too bad. Vietnam is one of the poorest countries in the world alongside with Cuba.

<<Actually, he "drove" himself into the Russia's arms. There has been centuries of mistrust between Vietnam and China, the most notable in recent history is the war between the two countries in 1979.>>

Notwithstanding that enmity, China helped Ho to train and arm the North Vietnamese before 1979. That is a well-known fact.

<<He was a great admirer of our constitution and democratic form of government, but we spurned him in place of a series of imperialistic and/or despotic regimes.>>

<<This is taken out of context. >>

Oh, I don't think it is. When Ho was in Paris, in his youth, he particularly admired our particular form of government and our constitution, even some of our presidents.

<<And I don't believe the US put a despotic regime in North Vietnam - only the South.>>

I don't believe that I suggested that we had. Please read that again.

We installed and supported a puppet government in the south instead of working to integrate the two halves of the county and/or letting the majority decide for itself what kind of government it wanted. A lot of people, even in the south, preferred Ho.

A lot of people even in the South liked Ho because he brainwashed them, saying that the US was trying to take over. Any educated person who thinks hes full of it like teachers and students get killed by the terrorists. Hes a bad ass

In article ,

Yes it is a well known fact, however, the NVA received the vast majority of its aid from the Soviet Union. It received some from China.

As I said in my reply that was not pasted above, it was in regards to nationalism. Apart from being a Marxist he was a very strong nationalist, who wanted Vietnam free from the influence of not only France and the US, but the Soviet Union and China.

And saying things are far different from actions. Haider, former leader of the Austria's Freedom party (the one that supported some Nazi policies and vehemently ant-immigrant) said that he admires Lincoln and the Reverend Martin Luther King. Jr.

If you mean the Ngo Dinh Diem government after the partition, the US supported him but did not install him into power. It was his decision not to hold elections.

In regards to installing a puppet government in Vietnam you are right. Diem was overthrown in 1963 and replaced by two South Vietnamese generals on the orders of the revered President John F. Kennedy.

Check out Martin Walker's, "The Cold War" from the library. This is where I get my facts.

what is this

Heheh, and didn't the US also build up Sadaam Hussein's power before declaring him an evil dictator??

Do we see a pattern emerging here??

Build em up and knock em down....

In article , [email] (Cheryl3b) wrote:

"dbf" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

place of

In article , [email] (Cheryl3b) writes:

Actually, that's not quite true. According to excellent this show on alternative history on the Discovery Channel(?) I saw, Ho Chi Min may have turned commie even if we supported him instead of that other guy...

In article , "D.G. Porter" wrote:

So, John F. Kennedy was a 'good little ewe'?

Yes, I guess that's what the US did. I mean what an odd thing to ostricize Castro after he threatened to confiscate more than $1 billion of American-owned property in Cuba, cut off trade with the US, imprison and execute Americans, and attack the US by describing its policies as "Yankee imperialism."

Or perhaps, maybe, just maybe, he lept into Khruschev's lap.

I guess in some areas of Latin America leading 160 revolutionaries in a suicidal attack in Santiago del Cuba and getting captured can be considered a legal course of action.

And I suppose that something positive can come to the 1000 members of Batista's regime and Castro's own followers who disagreed with his policies who were killed that a lawyer ordered their execution.

Don't forget Stalin the Pacifist and Mao the Savior.

Indeed. And in what alternate universe did you come from?

On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:13:51 -0700, "D.G. Porter" wrote:

I always thought he was pissed off at us just because FDR didn't send him that $10 bill...

[email]

"Hey, look at me! I'm a *Chris-tian*! I'm reading the *Bi-ble*!"

In article , "D.G. Porter" writes:

Are you that hysterical cousin who keeps having "nervous breakdowns" every couple weeks?

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because Janet Reno is her father.

Janet Reno is very magical. When you rub her head, she spits in your eye.

Yeah. Her Benwah balls translate into wrist action!

In article , "Diablo" writes:

Speaking of which, who was Cartman's father?

In article , [email] (Ben Raines) wrote:

You didn't watch the second part of that? It turns out that the proper question is NO CARRIER

Who is Erics father? Is it Mr Garrison, Chef, The '82 Denver Broncos....

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:09:15 +0100, "Todders" wrote:

I remember this episode!  2 parter.....   They were in that room of
sorts...the lights were flickering on & off...they started that "Who
is..." bullshit then Cartman says, "Man that's really startin' to piss
me off!"   <---Laugh of a lifetime!

We back Reno all the way "furplay" wrote in message news:[email]...

Then that means you (and your Fidel-loving asswipe buddies) suck donkey balls.

Fidel sucks donkey balls that doesnt mean US has the right to take children from every communist father. Oh yeah, im not communist you donkey raping shit eater.

True.

father.

But the US did NOT take Elian from his father. His mother did (and some can say she got what was coming to her when she died), and his Miami relatives took him in because they were his family in Florida.

--- Willie Westwood

On 29 Apr 2000 08:10:44 GMT, [email] (Willie Westwood) wrote:

Should the West German government have thrown East German kids back over the wall?

Actually, his mother didn't "take" Elian from anybody, least of all from his illegitimate biological "father." That bastard (figuratively, not literally) Juan Miguel divorced her years before returned to pork her once more for old time's sake, thereby bringing that bastard (literally, not figuratively) Elian into the world. If the whole thing had happened in Florida, or been split between two states with Elian somehow ending up in Florida (or any other state that changed its laws to prevent a repeat of the "Baby Jessica" and "Baby Richard" circuses), the figurative bastard probably wouldn't have had any parental rights concerning the literal bastard whatsoever.

No decent father would wait five months to travel 228 miles to see his son just because his relatives *might* not give him back, then travel to a more distant part of the country and ask the government to help regain custody at all costs, even if it means endangering the kid (remember, what DID happen to Kenny on this week's episode could easily have happened to Elian on Saturday, and if we try this tactic enough times, sooner or later, it WILL happen to somebody).

The only difference between Baby Elian and the infamous Baby Jessica and Baby Richard cases is that Richard and Jessica only got screwed one way: they got returned to unfit parents. Elian gets that, and a golden opportunity to live the rest of his life as a prisoner in a country millions die trying to escape.

And no, I don't assume Cuban tyranny will die with Castro, unless he goes the way of Nicolae Ceaucescu. Russian tyranny didn't die with Lenin, and no one thought of taking down Berlin Wall when Walter Ulbricht died. There is a very real possibility that twelve years from now, an 18 year old Elian Gonzalez will still be trapped in that cesspool we sent him back to "for his own good."

Reminds me of the image of US-trained Salvadorian armed forces members tossing babies in the air and "catching" them on their bayonets. We trains 'em good, don't we. After all, those babies were commies!

I don't know where you get this, but I think you should lay off the 'shrooms. Elian would go to his dad's house after school most every day of the week.

On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:00:07 -0700, "D.G. Porter" wrote:

In other words, stop reading the papers? The fact that Juan Miguel and Elian's mother weren't married when Elian was born and/or conceived is a matter of public record, as is the fact that a number of states, including Florida, have sharply reduced the custodial rights of illegitimate fathers in the wake of Baby Jessica and Baby Richard fiascos. This does not necessarily mean that Juan Miguel wouldn't get custody if he were a resident of Florida, but it does mean that it wouldn't be a slam dunk.

Source?

LA Times. Don't remember when since it's over a week and I throw papers out.

Willie Westwood wrote in message news:[email]...

can say

took him

I wonder how much different the story would have been if his father had died on that raft, and his mother was left behind in Cuba. The real pisser in all this is once the public loses interest, it'll be damn near impossible to find out if the dad ships him off to military school after getting way tired of the lil' bastard in 6 months.

Since the kid spent his afternoons after school with his dad, I don't think the dad is likely to get too tired of him soon.

<<Since the kid spent his afternoons after school with his dad, I don't think the dad is likely to get too tired of him soon.>>

Everything I've read says that Juan Miguel was the primary caretaker and custodian. Elian's mother only had him on weekends.

You ppl are missing the point. What the Government did in this case was clearly unconstitutional and an ILLEGAL ACT. The executive branch simply DOES NOT have the power to yank someone out of their own home without first acquiring a court-order to do so.

But do we hear this from the Mainstream Media? NOOOOO! I had to get this off of talk-radio. For pete's sake, the failure of the mainstream-media to report even this simple fact show us to what lengths they'll go to protect this administration! I'm surprised at how many of you (and America in general) have been duped by these totalitarian-worshipping ass-kissers.

-Cheers Freemind Willie Westwood wrote in message ...

say

him

The Miami family didn't help matters in adding strings to their agreement, so that the government got tired of being jerked around. But yes, the government acted above the law.

--- Willie Westwood

This would be a PERFECT time for Clinton to suddenly declare that he was going to lift all sanctions against Cuba (hey, if we can start warming up to Iran, why not?). Free and open trade of goods.

Fidel, hearing of this, would shit his pants in shock and utter horror.

No longer would he have a convenient excuse to blame the nation up north for all of his fucked-up social & economic policies.

Not only would the dollars flow like crazy into Havana, but so would all the other bits of Americanna. Kids will be running home from Communist Youth League classes at school to go watch the latest DBZ episode.

Castro would have more Yankee imperialism than he can ever stand. No way could even he hold back the tide. He'll either have to change with the times or get crushed by it.

Oh yeah, an end to the embargo is just the kind of thing to royally fuck up Castro right now.

Clinton can get the ball rolling, you know.

You fools, there WAS a search warrant. A lot of LOONS are running around saying it's a forgery though.

It doesn't matter. The relatives had commited kidnapping and you don't need a search warrent to stop a crime in progress.

I love to hear how people'd react if things were turned around; say an american brat who swiss relatives wouldn't allow him to return to his remaining american parent.

[email] wrote:

Fuhgetaboudit. We'd probably have sent in troops a long time ago.

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D.G. Porter wrote in message ...

was

simply

first

agreement, so

government

Not only was there a search warrant, it was executed properly. Listening to talk radio for substansive news is like sifting through the sewer looking for diamonds. They may be some in there, but you have to wallow in a whole lot of shit to find it. (The reason that the mainstream media doesn't report many of the 'talk radio exclusives' is that they are out-and-out lies. This is from both the left and the right, though in this case it seems that the most outrageous lies came from the far right.) If you are really interested in the legal aspects of this case, you need to listen to Curtis and Kuby on WABC radio, it's probably the most intelligent offering on talk radio, and discusses both sides in depth. There was a good discussion about the 'problems' with the search warrant, which generally boiled down to people with no legal knowledge asserting that since the feds didn't read Elian his Miranda rights, he had to be returned. (Obviously the only thing not reading Elian his Miranda rights affects is the government's ability to prosecute him based on statements he made until such a time as they do arrest him and advise him of all of his legal rights.)

While I disagree with the way the government handled the whole Elian mess, the fact is that they DID have a court order (the ruling that Reno kept citing, saying that the child should be turned over to the father ASAP). Elian was NOT "yanked out of (his) own home" (it wasn't his home). I think it's YOU that's missing the point, buddy.

Having said that, I feel sorry for that poor child, who's being used by TWO different governments as a propaganda tool. His well-being took a backseat a long time ago. I think he should have been allowed to remain here - it was his mother's wish, and his mother was the custodial parent.

<<The executive branch simply DOES NOT have the power to yank someone out of their own home without first acquiring a court-order to do so.>>

It wasn't Elian's home. He was being held there against the will of his father. In this country, that's called kidnapping. And the government does not need a court order to take a child away from a kidnapper.

<<But do we hear this from the Mainstream Media? NOOOOO! I had to get this off of talk-radio.>>

'Nuff said.

I wouldn't say the Miami family are kidnappers, since they are not the ones who escaped Cuba with Elian. At worst, they are harboring an illegal alien. And the government still needed a court order, since the kidnapper died at sea, and his Miami family can't be charged with his mother's crime. Indeed, with a father who didn't come to visit him until April 21, a dead mother, and relatives he didn't know until last November, the guy's a bona fide bastard. Who can have custody of him now?

--- Willie Westwood

<<I wouldn't say the Miami family are kidnappers, since they are not the ones who escaped Cuba with Elian. At worst, they are harboring an illegal alien.>>

If he were an adult, then I would agree with you. But holding a minor child against the will of the parent is kidnapping, no matter how the child originally came into their custody, even if they legitimately had him at first.

The day that the father was here and asked for his child and they refused to turn him over to him is the day that they broke federal law. I'm just wondering why they have not been arrested or prosecuted. It would have to be solely for political reasons.

Yes. The Gonzalez family in Miami was absolutely guilty of violating Florida state kidnapping statutes. By *any* interpretation of those laws, Lazaro and Marisleysis should have to stand trial.

Sure. If the exile community went so nutso over the rescue operation, I can only imagine they'd be burning entire city blocks if charges were filed right now.

But when this blows over and Elian is back home and the protesters have all found something new to be outraged over, you can bet the appropriate papers will be filed and justice will be served.

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The same can be said of the father. Was his request an honest one, or was it forced by Castro (implying that the father actually wants the son to stay)? It is said that if Elian returns to Cuba, it will not be to his father's care, but to a boarding school in which he'll be indoctrinated in Communisn and Socialism and will not see his father for long periods of time. I'll side with the Miami family here: if the father's request is genuine, and if I knew that Elian would not be taken from him in Cuba, then I'd return the son.

--- Willie Westwood

That doesn't matter. Maybe it matters to folks who hate Castro, but not to the letter of the law.

Who the hell are Americans to impose our way of life on another nation? If indoctrination is in Elian's future, so be it. Once this *Cuban citizen* is back on Cuban soil, it's none of our business what happens to him.

This is what happens when you let emotions rule over logic.

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On Tue, 02 May 2000 07:44:14 -0400, Dave wrote:

Actually, it matters quite a bit to the letter and the spirit of the law, both of which are relevant.

Weren't you the one harping on The Law (TM)? Right or wrong, The Law says that we grant automatic asylum to Cuban refugees, and is equally clear on the point that minors can apply for asylum over their parents' objection.

It's what happens when you base a custody decision on the best interests of the child and not on a rigid adherence to The Law (not the law, really, though it's never easy to argue with a gun in your face).

Your very answer shows why it didn't matter to the Miami family what the law had to say. If the Law isn't willing to take the sincerity of the father into account, then it's just acting as an arm of Cuban Law.

Who the hell are they? The same ones who hold an embargo against Cuba, hoping since JFK for the day when Cuba will turn democratic.

No, this is what happens when the spirit of the law is applied to the letter of the law.

--- Willie Westwood

<<The same can be said of the father. Was his request an honest one, or was it forced by Castro (implying that the father actually wants the son to stay)? >>

This is the first time that I'm aware of that the sincerity of a parent in requesting the return of his kidnapped child has been questioned, much less used as an excuse by the kidnappers to refuse to turn over the child.

Suppose I take a child from poor, neglectful (IMO) parents. I can give him a better, more loving home. Suppose I don't think that they really love him, and that their demand for him to be returned is not sincere.

Do you really think that that would keep me out of jail? Or that I would be allowed to keep him? Or that a family court would decide the issue?

By the way, while the Elian circus was going on, there was another, more quiet drama involving a child being returned to a foreign parent that no one cared about in the least.

A young boy from a middle eastern country was taken from there by his American mother after the child's custody was awarded by a court there to the father. A mother almost never obtains custody of children in those countries, no matter what the situation is, and she claimed that she could give him a better home and life here. Notwithstanding all of the "best interests" the child, the US government had to uphold the ruling of that country and give the child to the father, who immediately took him out of the US, probably back to a much poorer life.

Where was the cry of outrage over that? The Miami relatives had NO legal right to the child while the mother in the above case had a much stronger legal claim.

The point is, the law is the law. At their trial, if there ever is one, I'm sure that the Miami family will raise all kinds of excuses for and defense of their actions, which a judge or jury can use to mitigate their sentencing. Or not. But their beliefs do not eradicate the law and should not prevent its application.

"Cheryl3b" wrote in message news:[email]...

American

father.

This whole Elian mess is caused partly by the fact that the good ol' USA is a little confused at the moment. This country has always been fueled by hate, however repressed and unacknowledged. First it was the British, then the Mexicans, then each other, then the Germans, then the Communist Russians. I probably left some out. The point is, this country does stupid things like Elian when it's without an Evil Empire� to defend itself or anyone else from. Bigotry and hatred built this country, however much we hate to admit it. The hatred for Elian's homeland is a grasp for righteous anger, in much the same way bombing Yugoslavia was. It really pisses me off to hear cocktail party patriots say things like "why would someone want to live anywhere else?" It's the height of insensitivity. Like the Quints said, "it may not be as nice as america, but it's our home".

Rescuing a kidnapped child is illegal? Well. I'll be damned.

They had one. You can get a copy of it for $2 via the Freedom of Information Act.

No, all I get from mainstream media are the protesting Cuban exiles who think that anything that Castro wants with must be wrong, regardless of whether it coincides with US Federal law. And I'm tired of it.

Imus or Limbaugh?

You are clueless. Even the most staunch party-line kneejerk Clinton/Reno haters are saying this is the first thing they've done right in 7 1/2 years. The only people who think the Gov't f*cked up are the exile community in Miami and the rabblerousers and sociopaths and misanthropes who hate all government regardless of the situation.

Juan Miguel: They have my son, who I have a legal right to custody over. They are in direct violation of Florida's state kidnapping statutes. I want my son back.

INS: We've asked them a thousand times, they keep saying no.

Juan Miguel: Please? I'll come to Washington.

INS: Ok.

One warrant served with perfect military precision later.

INS: Here's your son. I only hope you can help erase the damage done to him by the psychos in Little Havana.

Juan Miguel: I will do my best. Thank you and God bless you for your help.

And you have a problem with this?

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Freemind wrote:

No further comment is necessary or useful.

It's almost like saying, "I read it in the Enquirer."

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On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 16:42:49 -0400, Dave wrote:

Liar. They *requested* one, and the court denied it. The court *also* declined to specifically order them *not* to seize him, but that's hardly the same thing as ordering them *to* do so.

And some of us are equally tired of your simplistic misrepresentations of what federal law does and does not say.

Returning to the subject of this newsgroup, which of your smears applies to Trey and Matt?

Bite me. They were selling on ebay.

Wink wink.

One of you, anyway.

What exactly did I "misrepresent"?

You misspelled "characterizations".

Dunno. None, I don't think.

It would appear that they simply enjoy pissing on political correctness and poking fun at "establishment".

Which one applies to you?

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