Has Trey and Matt Gone Too Far? (Tonight's Episode)

S P O I L E R

S P A C E

Tonight's episode, which is the first of a two-part episode, may have got a little bit two far when it comes religion. While the sub-plot (Satan may being falling in love again with Saddam) was clever, it is the main plot that could cause the trouble.

In this episode, the boys are convinced by the local priest, who is clueless on most religion, that if they don't get baptized, confess their sins, and have communion, then they will go to Hell. Obviously, they take it way too seriously, as they confess their sins way too often and fear about the fate of Timmy, Kyle, and Ike. Of course, they could have ended it with either the nun or the dead Kenny telling the kids that it's okay to sin every once in a while. However, the episode ends with the boys discovering the priest having sex, and thus they begin to encourage other kids to leave this town and start a sin-free community.

I'm worried that Trey and Matt may have gone too far for two main reasons:

1. This is turning into a type of episode I hate, the one where the boys become victims of one item that it's up to the adults to save them. You saw how I reacted to the Ritalin episode last April (acting like a troll), and I am worried this will be just like that, and thus causing the same reaction.

2. What if a child the same age as the boys saw this episode? They would probably fear that will be going to Hell if they either do just one sin without a confession or are from another religion (Jewish, Hindu, etc.).

Thus, as a Catholic, I feel that Trey and Matt are pushing the envelope of taste with this religion. That is all I'm saying, I am not going to post anymore about this a la the Ritalin episode. As for me being a troll that doesn't even like SP, that is so untrue.

Joe Klemm

Joe Klemm wrote in message news:[email]

without

I don't think kids should be watching this show if they're too young to grasp the comedy and satire inherent in it. I too was getting a little ansty wondering where they were going with this. This episode was very mature and I think a lot of adults are going to misunderstand it.

It could be a *lot* worse. They could be exposed to the horrors of a religious upbringing at such an age. Could be even worse: could be a fundy upbringing.

CHRISTIANS PISS ME OFF!

[email] wrote:

I would like to show every kid who is fucked up by religion this episode and tell them, "You mom and dad are nutburgers, quit the church."

On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:54:09 -0400, "High Time" wrote:

This episode? The whole SHOW is NOT meant for kids! Why else would they put the warnings on in front of the show?

I have no sympathy for kids who see the show and get the wrong message. They shouldn't be watching it, with or without parental supervision. And if the parents aren't around to watch the kids, then they shouldn't have cable... or put a parental lock on the TV.

To hell with kids. Pardon the pun.

----- Lone Wolf A solar superman

"You're the one that stole the sun." - Tracy Bonham, "The One"

"It's miracle urine!" - Conan O'Brien

Then their parents will go straight to hell for letting them. :) Hey, a sin's a sin.

:) jane

Very true, the target audience is 18 to 49 year-olds.

Exactly, I agree 100 percent. Like I've said over and over again, it's an adult-oriented show. Just because it's animated doesn't mean it's for kids. If the show were a live-action show with the same content, would as many parents let their kids watch it? Somehow, I don't think so.

[waves arms in air]

Sing it, brother! :-)

[looks around, sees everyone staring at him, settles down]

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In article , Steve Sutton wrote:

After all, you can get animated porn from Japan. That's certainly not for kids.

Who says you have to go to Japan to get it? There's a bunch right here in the good ol' U.S. of A.

Howard S Shubs wrote:

Makes me wonder how many of these people would show Fritz the Cat to their kids just because it's animated.

Aw, that movie sucked lizard piss! I have the original Crumb comix they drew most of it fom, and those are so damn superior to that Bakshi piece of crap it's just fucking SAD! DON'T WATCH THAT SHIT. IT'S A FUCKING BAD MOVIE. WATCH SP:BLU INSTEAD!!

On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:24:07 GMT, Tim wrote:

I know someone who almost did that *L* I think what's really fucked about that movie is the voice of Fritz was a cast member of THe Electric Company -------------------------------------------

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On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 03:40:14 GMT, [email] (Lone Wolf) wrote:

To try to cover their asses legally
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So you're saying that Jesus ISN'T made of crackers?

Ben Raines wrote in message news:[email]...

No. He asked the apostle to eat of his flesh...nevermind.

[email] (Joe Klemm) wrote in :

<snip spoiler space>

You do realize that everything they said about Catholicism in this episode is true? If you don't follow the tenants, you are going to hell. According to the the Church, you are actually eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ (I think its called transubstantiation or something like that).

Oh and before someone mentions it, if you can go to heaven without doing all these things, why follow the religion at all?

---Dave

Quick. Go out and find a copy of Justine Greene's "Binky Brown Meets the Holy Virgin Mary." OK, so you probably won't be able to find a copy. But the guy deseves an honorary MA in Psychology for this one! Here's what happens: A young Catholic boy with a Jewish father feels he's going to go to hell for sinning against God and Jesus, and for having a Dad who's going to Hell too. He hits puberty. One day in church he gets a little twinge in his pecker. His wiener grows a ray that keeps pointing at holy icons. Then his fingers grow these crazy rays, then his feet too. The only way he can keep from offending God is to make sure he is perfectly pependicular to anything that might be offended by his rays. One day, while reverently imagining how holy the Virgin Mary is, he imagines getting doused by her menstruation. This is the worst sin he can possibly commit, he thinks, so he decides he's going to Hell and so leaves the church. But the rays stay with him. However, thanks to the wonder drug known as LSD, one day he realizes that it isn't the Virgin Mary after all, it's all in his own head. So everyone, acid is good for you and religion is bad!

It seems like Hell is the better place to go anyway. Walter Matthau, Princess Di, JFK & JFK Jr., all the fun people are down there!

<<You do realize that everything they said about Catholicism in this episode is true?>>

I'm not surprised- a Jesuit priest is thanked in the credits, so I assume that he was consulted about this stuff.

I was wondering what kind of explanation he's going to be called upon to make to his earthly superiors for working on an episode of South Park...

Cheryl3b wrote in message news:[email]...

episode is

that

make

Probably none. The Jesuits are really quite enlightened. Priests actually are very educated and enlightened for the most part, it is just that too often they have to contend with an uneducated and unenlightened audience. Those are the facts.

What? If Deanne Cartman was pissing in a glass in THIS one, maybe I'd consider agreeing with you to some extent. Oh. Who? Up to the adults to save the kids? Reverend Cartman is going to lead the kids of SouthPark to salvation! Can I hear an AMEN! What?

"Joe Klemm" wrote in message news:[email]...

a

being

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clueless on

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Joe Klemm wrote:

MM.... .trouble, I loves that trouble.

{SNIP}

Acutally I didn't see it, but if anything it looks like the boys might save the adults from their sins.. (Praise Cartman)

If a kid that age is watching south park, then they are probably going to go to hell already, mostly because they have dumb ass parents who let them watch bad tv. Thats why Walter Mathau went to hell you know.

As a jew (Jew Bastard according to Hillary Clinton) I am going to hell.. Ill save you a lounge chair.

JOE! Can I be your date for the Hell Luau? Save me a drink, hon!

Ill save

It would probably be a while anyway before I die, unless I have a heart attack or commit suicide. Plus, I still have no idea of what the afterlife woul be like, though I'm hoping that there is a heaven like it said in the Bible. Thus, the offer is probably up in the air.

Joe Klemm

Death is death. When you die, you die. That's all there is to it.

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Steve Sutton wrote:

That's not true. What about Kenny??

Just joking, I completely agree.

Rockett Crawford

Kenny is not the only fictional character to return from the dead. There has also been:

Snow White, E.T., Mr. Spock, Superman, and probably a great many others I can't think of at the moment.

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And now, a turd from our sponsor:

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On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:11:23 -0700, Eric Perlin wrote:

Most comic characters except Uncle Ben and Bucky.
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To reply, replace nospam with com

Jesus.

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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.

"Dave" wrote in message news:[email]...

Cue the atheism, practical thinking or lame godlessness? thread.

You've been dead before?

Steve Sutton wrote in message news:[email]...

"I've been dead before." Spock, "Star Trek VI"

"I've been dead once already; it's very liberating. You might think of it as... therapy." Joke, "Batman"

"High Time" wrote:

I want to examine the whole concept of there being such a thing as an immortal soul.

According to this concept, your soul can hear without eardrums, see without eyes, and speak without a mouth or vocal chords, although you can usually only be heard by other souls. If it is possible to see, hear, speak, and experience all of our senses without a body, why were we given bodies in the first place?

I never waste time going to cemeteries and speaking to dead people. As I see it, without a body with functional eardrums, the dead cannot possibly hear me.

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Speaking of the dead, anyone who would fall for the scam advertised below would have to be brain dead.

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In article , Eric Perlin wrote:

Perhaps the body's a hack to give us time to mature.

My radio can hear and speak without ears or vocal cords.

"Howard S Shubs" wrote in message news:[email]...

You mean to say your radio works with absolutely NO input and/or output devices? Man...where can I get one of those? That's a bloody miracle!

In article , "LooseChanj" wrote:

It -is- an input and output device. You said ears and vocal cords, though.

"You can never go too far ..." ~~ FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF

LooseChanj wrote in message news:[email]...

He was pointing out that one does not need ears to hear or vocal cords to speak. He did not say that no input or oputput was involved.

My comment was to the person who calimed to know what happened after one dies. I have an idea of what happens even if I am not religious, but I do not know.

Eric Perlin wrote in message news:[email]...

Well THANKS for ruining the ending! JERK!

Anyway, how do you know? -Serack

<<Oh and before someone mentions it, if you can go to heaven without doing all these things, why follow the religion at all?>>

To increase the odds of getting in??

I'm an atheist who went to a Catholic grade school, so I can relate to this episode in some ways.

Entering grade school, I knew very little about religion itself, let alone about catholicism. My parents both belong to different religions , of which neither one actively practices, so religion was never really mentioned in my household when I was growing up. Most of my ideas about relgion came from watching television.

I can really relate to Stan, Eric, and Kenny because I remember asking my Religion teacher what communion was, because I had absolutely no idea was she was talking about when she mentioned that word. I couldn't really understand her explanation of what it was and why Catholics ate that "cracker".

I also remember going through a phase later on where I became very afraid of Hell, and I became very worried because I was not a Catholic. I took it upon myself to commit as few sins as possible, because I was afraid of how God would view me, since I was not a Cathoic. I even remember praying for 45 minutes a night at one point.

I wasn't terribly impressed with this ep. Xian bashing is so passe', plus the whole Satan's-old-boyfriend-returns bit was dull and predictable.

Oddly enough, the high points were the lua song (and seeing the celebrity "guests", although I don't know why Walter Matheau was tossed in) and Sadam's naughty slips of the tongue. I really had trouble keeping awake after the lua... and after it looked like they were on a roll, too!

Pushing the envelope? Perhaps. Still, it's fuckin' funny -- mostly because the Catholic Church is completely out of touch and is only slightly less of a cult than the Mormons.

Face it: the Vatican simply cries out to be made fun of.

Also worth noting is that tonight's episode is the first (to my knowledge) one to directly reference SP: BLU (Satan, Saddam and the attempted takeover of Earth).

BatMan2000 wrote (quoting Joe K):

Joe fails to realize that "pushing the envelope" is not a bad thing. It may make him uneasy "as a Catholic," but that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. The Catholic church is almost unique in its ability to find offenses in any nonreverent comments about itself, even from its nonadherents.

The whole "As a _____" offense is tired and laughable, and is used far too frequently by Catholics (more than by almost any other group, it seems), as if to assert that Catholics deserve much more judicious avoidance than anyone else. I doubt that's where the phrase "holier than thou" came from, but it sure as hell fits. If something clearly intended as satire rather than slander offends you "as a _____," and you're so frosted by it that you feel you must cry out against the offense and attempt to make it cease, you're probably a very fragile person with a very self-centered view of the world. As BatMan2000 correctly states:

So true. And the more the Vatican and its lemmings protest, the more ludicrous their overall image becomes, thus greatly increasing the appropriateness of satirical commentary thereon.

How odd that this type of response also arose during the Ritalin episode since the Catholic church and Ritalin seem almost made for each other.

Good point there about it being okay to push the envelope. Personally, many Catholic cracks are okay by me. It's the idea that the kids are taking this thing way too seriously that has me worried. If a child saw the episode (and with it being summer, it is possible), then he or she may feel that if they sin and don't confess about it, then they will be going to Hell .

Basically, I try to follow most of the important Commandments (no stealing, no killing, no lying, honoring parents), however if you try to follow all of them, then you will be a dull person.

I personally respect other religions as well as my Catholic beliefs, since I am basically the common Catholic, the type who attends Sunday and Holy Days masses and regular church activites at my local churches.

Plus, they also have almost the same plot, which may be another reason for my complaints. Personally, next time a "town's kids (including the boys) become obsessed with a particular object" episode airs, including next week's episode, I'll skip it.

That's all. Unless I need to comment on it, no more Wednesday's episode banter for me. Besides, it wasn't as bad as my Ritalin episode banter.

Joe Klemm

Even Chimpokomon?

"Joe Klemm" wrote in message news:[email]...

many

this

(and

they sin

Anyone who believes in an eternal (that is infinite) punishment for a finite amount of wrongdoing does not believe in a just deity of any sort.

stealing, no

them,

IIRC, the punishment for breaking *ANY* of those 10 was the same. So it really doesn't matter *which*. And if you'd bother to keep reading you'd see it wasn't just those 10, there were literally *thousands* of commandments, ranging from no sex on the rag to not boiling baby goats in their momma's milk. Anyone who prattles on about the need to "follow the 10 commandments" just does not friggin' get it. A damn good example would be the religious leaders who insisted on giving Jesus a major ration of crap. It's really not that hard. "Do unto others", and you needn't worry about nitpicking.

This episode looks to me like the first installment of a BLU sequel. How much you wanna bet they end next weeks with a "to be continued" as well?

Jesus even said "I leave you with but one commandment: love one another as I have loved you.". Actually, the Hebrew laws were very liberating. A thousand "thou shalt nots" only outlined what you cannot do. That meant that everything else under the sun was okay.

LooseChanj wrote in message news:[email]...

finite

of

10

Uhm, which one of the ten commandments makes you a dull person??

Joe Klemm wrote in message news:[email]...

many

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(and

they sin

stealing, no

them,

I am

masses

my

become

episode,

banter

That one about not coveting your neighbour's ox.

I don't covet my neighbour's ox and he's got a really nice one too.

High Time wrote in message news:vlPd5.8117$[email]...

of

since

episode

for

I'm a bad Catholic. I always thought it was coveting your neighbor's ass. My neighbor is kinda cute, but I certainly don't covet his ass, his dog maybe, but not his ass.

There's no commandment about coveting your neighbor's wife's ass, either. His wife, and his ass, yes. His wife's ass, no. :-D

Long live the Bill Of Rights!

"A person is not stupid. People are stupid."

"Just say no to drugs; religion is the opiate of the masses."

Remove munist to reply.

Not a member of Friends Under Christ's Kingdom (F.U.C.K)

...  MMKAYYYYY ...

Our once-a-Catholic friend was going to attend stations of the cross at his mom's insistence. We took care of that problem for him by asking him to describe them, and I made sarcastic comments like, "This bites, Dad" (Jesus to God, you see.) He was so cracked up he couldn't attend! Every time he thought of one of the stations he'd start laughing.

It was slightly amusing, but like shooting fish in a barrel. Also, I couldn't shake the "done there. seen that" feeling.

Check out these Cartman Parodies!!!

www.mp3.com/Freako

l8rs yall!!!

If its funny, then they haven't gone too far.

"Joe Klemm" wrote in message news:[email]...

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Having had this same thing happen to me when I was younger (The "Be baptized or go to hell!" thing), I can relate.

You were never like that as a kid? I had religion pushed on me as a kid, and I worried about everyone and myself, then I started to pick the whole idea apart a little more analytically and came to the conclusion Kyle did, what if we're playing for the wrong team?

I feared that anyway...and still kinda do.

The teaching was that the unbaptized who have not heard the Gospel went to Limbo, which was at the edge of hell. But Limbo was never an official teaching of the Church. Thus, the unbaptized now go where God decides they should go (the Church has no idea). The unbaptized who hear the Gospel but don't convert are in danger of going to hell, but again, the final decision is God's. A person who converts, then loses his faith, moves on to something other than Christianity, or reverts to his former faith is definitely in danger of going to hell, since he has heard the words of salvation, believed, and then rejected them. But again, God may have other plans.

As a Catholic kid, one has no choice but to take it seriously. The whole confession-communion thing was meant to develop one's conscience, but it often didn't work out that way. It used to be that one had to confess his sins to a priest (the priest being Jesus' representative here on earth) before one could take communion, and I often didn't take the wafer because I had failed to confess my sins. I figured my conscience could be better developed by other means, and it was. And besides, confession is mandatory only if you commit one or more mortal sins in the year between Easters. Frequent confession is encouraged, though.

True. And they should find a knowledgeable adult to straighten them out. Especially one of their religious tradition.

--- Willie Westwood

I don't buy anything that you are complaining about. If you are a true catholic and then you would take everything seriously. You are not supposed to sin. Period. If you do, you must go to confession. But you saying that it shouldn't be taken so seriously is your opinion, not the opinion of the church. This episode clearly shows how ludicrous the rules of the church are. But then, you will get that with any man made religion.

Bill wrote in message news:W9Md5.2760$[email]... This episode clearly shows how ludicrous the rules of the church

What is a "non-man-made religion"?

On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:16:08 -0400, "High Time" wrote:

Scientology... prove to me that Hubbard wasn't an evil mutant alien from Jupiter's fifth moon.

----- Lone Wolf A solar superman

"You're the one that stole the sun." - Tracy Bonham, "The One"

"It's miracle urine!" - Conan O'Brien

There isn't one. That is my point. No religion can possibly be 100% right. Every single one has its flaws, because they are man made. Has man ever made anything that was without a flaw? I think not. The Catholic faith must have many flaws, because it has been changed numerous times throughout the years.

"High Time" wrote in message news:mrPd5.8128$[email]...

news:W9Md5.2760$[email]...

Bill wrote in message news:8qWd5.2798$[email]...

right.

throughout

The church has "evolved", not changed. :)

Then hopefully, the sight of the preacher of the threats bonking the woman in the confessional will convince them of the inherent hypocrisy of it all.

If it's any consolation, maybe some of the fun and festivities shown taking place in Hell will ease some of these fears.

If only those acting on your religion's behalf would mind their own business and stop sticking their nose into politics, and various social and personal issues--of even the nonbelievers--then maybe Trey and Matt, and contemporary youth culture in general, wouldn't find it so entertaining to rip it up so much.

Besides, why should only Catholicism (or any religion, for that matter) be protected from criticism, mockery, and satire?

on a different note from the rest of this thread:

i don't think anyone protesting this show (and you know people do) will be justified, based on the channel that it's on. they would look really stupid complaining about this if nobody said anything about other shows. eg. upright citizens, a man had anal sex with jesus, etc.

most normal kids older than 10 would probably understand that this whole episode was satire.

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Quite frankly, I don't think anyone is making any real fuss over this show. The only onesthat have paid any attention to it are the Southpark fans in general.

x263 wrote in message news:[email]...

Actually, it should be HAVE Trey and Matt Gone Too Far.

As for those who might take the show seriously, the fact that the priest was banging a woman instead of an altar boy PROVES that the show is based on fiction!

I guess Chef isn't going to Hell since he "eats crackers" all the time!