What's wrong with using the word "nigger"?

black people use it, why can't white people?

Alex Cain wrote:

You've almost answered your own question. Black people don't use it for the same reasons. When black people use it, it's not a racist slur. It's used as casual, colloquial, lightweight-joking, unifying, or coolifying term.

The same applies to a slew of other terms that don't often get as much of the spotlight. A Hispanic area in a very small city I know in the northeastern USA is offhandedly referred to by its own residents as Spicville. Some Italian-Americans use dago as if it means paisano. Among gay people you'll hear fag, dyke, dykey (and that one's often a high compliment), and most recently queer, all being used -- or trying to be used -- as something other than insults. Just about any group that has ever been looked down on tends to try to increase its cohesion and/or dignity by inverting ("reclaiming" is the current kewl term) the slurs that have traditionally been aimed at them.

An Irish guy I once worked with, who obeyed every Irish stereotype, once came in to work whining that he'd visited 6 new-car dealerships the night before but couldn't find a single "Mick" salesman. (God only knows why he'd only buy from someone of his own ethnicity, but that's another thread.) At lunch that same day he pissed off another patron at a restaurant, and when that guy then left the room snarling "Goddamn Mick," my co-worker went ballistic. That was the very same term he'd just used a few hours before to describe and delineate the persons(s) he had wanted to locate and favor.

It's the *purpose* of the usage, not the usage itself, that creates the friction, the abrasion, the hostility, the hissy-fit. Words are weapons. Freedom of speech is a great thing. Freedom to contest hateful speech can even be looked at as PART of that freedom. You may not know it, but some Internet providers aren't even carrying this thread, because they have filters that automatically reject postings with specific words in the subject line. (But that isn't really a formal infringement on your freedoms, because all Internet services have explicit rules about the content they'll accept and propagate.) That's also why you'll often see some more obviously gratuitous flame-bait postings using periods or spaces to foil these filters (e.g., the subject line might be written with "n.i.g.g.e.r").

The fact that this question is posted to so many groups that wouldn't normally be discussing it may indicate that you don't really want to know "why." Or I could be wrong there; no judgment intended. In any case, you can probably bet money that none of these terms will ever become "acceptable" when used by people outside the group they name. Just ask yourself this: If you were black, and a white guy referred to you as a nigger, would you think he was just being descriptive?

P.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I happen to be disabled, and I often refer to myself as a "gimp," or various other terms. But there's a big difference between me saying (for instance); "What do you expect from a gimp." and someone else saying; "Hey, look at the fucking gimp."

TIMMAY!

Am de-trolling this branch of the thread and limiting it to a.t.s.

Rick Luehr wrote:

and got a response from Alex saying:

In that connection, could you tell us, Rick, if a typical disabled person (yeh yeh I know I'm making horribly incorrect assumptions, [1] that you can gonna speak for everyone and [2] that your disability is even remotely similar to his) is offended, endeared, or unphased by the portrayal -- and the popularity -- of Timmay?

P.

[1] I'm not speaking for everyone, just me.

[2] Hell, I think Timmy is hilarious! As Kyle (or Stan, I can't remember which) said in the episode with the Lords of the Underworld, by putting him in everyone's face, they're forcing people to deal with the issue.

Am re-trolling this branch of the thread and limiting it to a.t.s, r.s.p-w, a.f.h, a.f.r-l

Rick Luehr spoke for criminally insane hunchbacks everywhere as he came forth with these immortal words:

Which is way too many people already.

He's a retard. Of course he's hilarious. He could shove his thumb up his ass and still be hilarious, at least in South Park style.

As Kyle (or Stan, I can't remember

Yea, which is should we send all wheelchair-bound retards to Africa and let them slave away in the wheat fields of Uganda or should we harnass them all to one big gearshift and let them help power the city of New York?

Thank heaven for killfiles.

I write the newsletter for a sical group of disabled activists. We have mostly blind people (they're outa sight!) but at least one person with cerebral palsy who uses a chair. Everyone recognizes that SP is just a weird fuckin show that makes fun of everything. And Timmy is kind of funny, for the same reason Tourette's syndrome is funny. (And why "Digger Smolkin" is funny! "I'm just a corpse who can't say fillllth, I'm in a terrile rat!" And why Elia Kazan is a weasel! "Seventy-six rat finks in the hearing room, with a hundred and ten named names on the list!" Are we having fun yet??)

Knowing how blind people can't stand it when some idiot tries to "help them" cross the street or something else, I wrote a "Todd" fanfic about when Todd and his blind friend are in a cheesy bar and he convinces some dizzy chick that he's blind and can read her areoli bumps as Braille while his friend is passed out in the loo. They thought it was pretty funny.

I have been suffering from an illness for some time that drains most of the energy I have away. I have been unable to hold down a job for 6 years. My boyfriend used to call me "the cripple" as I couldn't get around much. He meant it as a term of endearment, if anyone else called me that, I would have used what energy I had to raise my arm and slap them..

It's all in the delivery.

And the intent.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                         [email]
          (Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)
Seinfeld FAQ http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/7217/faq.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*NOTE*  I am not responsible for equipment damage due to reeeeally
dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.

What I find really curious is why "colored" is considered offensive, yet the NAACP doesn't feel the need to change its name. (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, right?)

Simple. Only the "colored" can use "colored" amongst themselves with any sense of dignity. Anybody not "colored" who tries to use it on them will be run out of the building, or out of town.

--- Willie Westwood

My point was that the NAACP expects everyone to refer to them as the NAACP. Hence, they are expecting everyone to indirectly use the term "colored." But whoa, if you use that term in any other context, then it's suddenly not okay. Anyway, I don't hear "colored" people calling themselves that. More blacks call each other "nigger" than "colored."

Personally, I have no desire to call anyone colored as it is too vague a term. The NAACP should follow what they (probably) support -- not using "colored" as a term to refer to those they assist -- and rename themselves accordingly.

the

sense

out

They should, huh? But the term is too well-entrenched by now to change it. But if South Carolina can bring down the Confederate flag, the NAACP should be able to rename itself.

--- Willie Westwood

Exactly. If other institutions are to be expected to take down their symbols, such as sports teams named after Native Americans, is it really too much to ask the NAACP to stop using the term "colored?" Jeeeeez!

too true!

Bao H. Lammy wrote in article ...

Cop: Were they colored? Fred Sanford: Yeah -- white!

When Bill Clinton said, "Let me make myself clear," he suddenly vanished from sight!

WE ARE ALL COLORED !! I may be what we call "white", but that too is a color. Is it not? The NAACP is poltical forum for minorities, which does nothing to help "colored people" anyway.

Willie Westwood wrote in message news:[email]...

the

sense

out

Yes, white is a color, but only by virtue of being devoid of any other color. How many white folk you know call each other "colored"? Have you never seen pictures of two drinking fountains, one saying "whites only" and the other saying "colored"? If whites should be included among the "coloreds," why did white exclude "coloreds" from their drinking fountains and from other places? But now that racism has gone by the side for the most part, you can say exactly what you did: "WE ARE ALL COLORED!!" Still, blacks feel racism, so what you said is just an insult to them, after centuries of being oppressed by the white "coloreds".

--- Willie Westwood

yeah but the color of the skin doesn't matter. if blacks say you can't say it because you're white, then THEY are racist.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:13:09 -0700, Peter Caldwell wrote:

its like this i call my friend a dyke.. she'll tease me and call me one back... we are both bi... but if someone else calls me a dyke.. i will shove my boot so far up their ass they'll be picking leather out of their teeth It different because when black people say it to eachother (the n word) They arent saying out of malice and injustice... they have a understanding, and a history with teh word and its a joke when they speak it to eachother... *shrugs*

"Sachiko" wrote in message news:[email]...

back... we are

Fucking dyke!

*sighs* troll.. cute

so in a way, by deciding i can't use the word "dyke", you're heterophobic, because of my sexual preference you decide what i can and cannot do. just like if i were homophobic i'd say "gay couples should not get married"

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:07:13 -0800, "Sachiko" wrote:

depends on how you would say it.. like.. if you were a friend.. straight or not and just being silly.. thats ok.. but if you said it to be rude or mean,.. or whatever.. that wouldnt be.. besides.. im not GAY.. im bi.. *shrugs* anyway.. back to lurking

In article , Alex Cain writes:

Hey, if black people can call each other the "N" word, then I think that white people should call each other "honky". Makes some sort of sense.

Mark. 8) - proud member of the Wakaba Genki Preservation Society! - proud member of the Shiori Death Advocates! Page o' Stuff: hometown.aol.com/locutusxx/index.html UtenaCode(1.0) U:4+ F:Wa+Hi+:pSC D:Sa--Na- X:*:a[SC][BR] M:f"Sunlit Garden"//"Truth"

On 29 Jul 2000 22:10:28 GMT, [email] (OnsenMark) wrote:

They can.. sometimes do.. but when was the last time you actually heard anyone do that?

I've called people I know crackers before =)

otherwise known as HippiChk79 wrote:

One important question there is, were they white people and are you too?

heh yep...my boss no less =) She thought it was hysterical.

In article , Christopher Reid writes:

You'd be surprised.

Mark. 8) - proud member of the Wakaba Genki Preservation Society! - proud member of the Shiori Death Advocates! Page o' Stuff: hometown.aol.com/locutusxx/index.html UtenaCode(1.0) U:4+ F:Wa+Hi+:pSC D:Sa--Na- X:*:a[SC][BR] M:f"Sunlit Garden"//"Truth"

The purpose and intent are different. (Also, you've equated "can" and "should" which isn't exactly seeing clearly.)

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:14:43 -0700, Peter Caldwell wrote:

You can say that again. I'm about as white as they come, but got called a "nigger" all the time as a kid. Never by a white guy, of course.

Jeff Bishop wrote:

Yeah, that's just a transfer of the general negative meaning with no connection to the specifics. Similarly, when the South Park kids were shown those new experimental (and lame) toys about 10 episodes ago, they dismissed them all as "gay." Of course there was nothing homosexual about any of the toys. The word "gay" had just become a throwaway insult for them.

There's also an interesting theme among the more enlightened people in the Deep South that "nigger" has another meaning unrelated to race. During an especially nasty Oprah broadcast several years ago where some town in Georgia (?) was being forced to integrate and the audience consisted mainly of its (all white) citizens), a white woman made a brief and impassioned comment about respect and civility, and concluded by saying "there are a LOT of niggers in this room, and I don't mean Oprah."

But putting that aside, a lot of why something is "bad" to say depends not just on the raw purpose but also on the context and even the inflection. Someone suggested being called a "honky" wouldn't tick them off. You can't really say that for certain without knowing what else the sentence contained. Compare (and yes, I know these are ludicrous examples and the point is still shaky; sue me):

"He's a fine upstanding honky gentleman of my acquaintance."

"Goddamn fucken small-dicked rhythm-impaired honky, get your fat ugly pale white ass off my Porsche!"

You could do this for "nigger" but it wouldn't make as much of a point because black people as a group have been degraded by generalization for centuries, so almost any slang term for a black person -- even, sometimes, one with an initially positive derviation, like a term that might refer to sexual prowess or dancing skill) is a lot more likely to come off negatively. That's just social conditioning.

P.

I think we're all missing a point here. I remember something Dick Gregory pointed out in 1981.

Let's look at the word "nigger."

Now let's spell it backwards. What do we get?

"Reagan."

OMIGOD, WE HAD A BACKWARDS NAGAER IN THE WHITE HOUSE FOR EIGHT YEARS!!! THAT BASTARD!!!!!

Exactly. I can't remember how many times in the last week when someone calls something "gay", I've said, "It is an inanimate object, so how can it be gay?"

Long live the Bill Of Rights!

"A person is not stupid. People are stupid."

"Just say no to drugs; religion is the opiate of the masses."

Remove munist to reply.

Not a member of Friends Under Christ's Kingdom (F.U.C.K)

In article , Peter Caldwell writes:

hmm...point made there.

Mark. 8) - proud member of the Wakaba Genki Preservation Society! - proud member of the Shiori Death Advocates! Page o' Stuff: hometown.aol.com/locutusxx/index.html UtenaCode(1.0) U:4+ F:Wa+Hi+:pSC D:Sa--Na- X:*:a[SC][BR] M:f"Sunlit Garden"//"Truth"

OK, why is Jesse Jackson allowed to call caucasians "honkies" ("We are going to pin the tail on the honky), but Ted Nugent cannot say that Mexicans should learn English? Hell, I'm Mexican, and I totally agree with him. Why should I have to learn Spanish? Why can't they learn some damn English? Hillary

"We then changed and tried it your way Without any luck Two Blackmans were boring, Boy did we suck"-Al Snow

"I contend that we are both Atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"-Stephen Roberts

Why should Mexicans learn English when Mexico's national language is Spanish. Can't they communicate with each other well enough with Spanish? -Serack

Oh, that was a good one! Hillary must have meant Mexican-Americans.

--- Willie Westwood

When I used to be a stand-up comedian all of us comics knew never to use the words nigger, wop, chink, or dyke, unless we were a nigger, wop, chink or dyke.

That actually says it all. And a lot more concisely than I did.

So Tiger Woods would be a Nigger, Chink, Fag?

Just wondering

Peter Caldwell wrote:

Howard & Edie wrote in message news:[email]...

No idea, dude.

I think the words you are looking for are FILTHY RICH !!

I would have gone with EXTREMELY TALENTED, but yours work too. :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                         [email]
          (Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)
Seinfeld FAQ http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/7217/faq.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*NOTE*  I am not responsible for equipment damage due to reeeeally
dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.

In , Alex Cain writes:

Never use the word nigger on a white cat.

Now go play on the gunnery range.

[email] wrote:

Actually, I already did. Those marines are lousy shots. Maybe G.W. Bush *should* increase the military spending, give those losers some practice!

If G.W. "Dumbass" Bush actually wins in November (which I don't think will happen), I think you can absolutely count on military spending being increased. It's a RepubliCAN'T(-resist-spending-money-on-things-that-explode) tradition.