This morning my newsreader showed 68 new (unread) messages here. They break down as follows:
Trolls............................................. 3
Replies to trolls..................................18
Comments to EACH OTHER (!) about trolls............24
Public posts that should've been private emails....14 (Toni...!)
Posts actually ABOUT South Park*................... 7
Completely off-topic or miscellaneous.............. 2
_______________
*Of these, 5 were questions answered in the FAQ.
Is this what you came here for? It ain't what I came here for. If you wanted a chat room, where meaningless messages come down like rain, then that's where ya probably oughta be. Not on a newsgroup.
If that's what we're turning into -- and it sure looks that way -- I'll just dip in here on the day after each new episode for early reactions, and then unsubscribe during the interims, because except for a very few thoughtful posts and some promised fanfics, this is a colossal waste of time. And *most* of that waste of time is now coming from people who THINK they're being righteous and cool by protesting the waste of time that the trolls were inducing.
This isn't a threat, just a statement of things to come.
He's right, though... we've GOT to stop troll-feeding. Just *plonk* them and end it there.
I'm as guilty as the next person, but I've been making a conscious effort to just STOP yelling back at these imbeciles... I've killfiled Matt and Trey, roman, doc, ahahah and his other personalities, and a couple of other trolls, and life is good.
Trust me, sweets... just killfile the fuckers. You'll never have to read their bullshit again, and all will be happy, except the poor, pathetic trolls who will start crying when suddenly everyone stops responding.
"it's not fair! I'm trashin South Park and no one's paying attention! This is bullshit! LISTEN TO ME! SOMEONE PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!" - any troll
----- Lone Wolf My Kung-Fu is the best.
"It was as if the lights dimmed just for him." - Steve Buscemi, Desperado
"You made a movie with Carrot Top? You know what would be a good name for that? Box office poison!" - Norm MacDonald (on Late Night w/ Conan O'Brien)
"I've been called alot of things, but 'skeptical' is not one of them." - Fox Mulder, The X-Files
Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you! May I kneel at your feet? I've spent the entire morning trying to find a program like the one you are mentioning. I owe you one! -me
No, just more than everyone else in that category combined. Again, sorry if this embarrasses you, but be a brave psychologist and think a second: When you get the urge to launch or continue a *private* conversation, it's irritating to the hundreds of people who read the group if you make it a *public* post. We come here to read about South Park, so when you post *publicly* to the group, you owe it to the rest of us to make sure that what you post is worth everyone's trouble to download and sift through. Otherwise, it might as well be a troll for all the good it does.
Here are some examples of things that end up just wasting bandwidth when sent as public posts:
- Backpatting someone for a good post
- Commiserating about a troll
- Personal anecdotes or questions that aren't related to South Park
- Questions about how to use your computer or newsreader or browser
- "Me too!"; "I'll say!"; "I agree"; etc.
- "Thanks for the info."
- "Pathetic troll."
- "Why are you posting to alt.tv.southpark?"
- "Welcome to the group"
(sure, it sounds sweet & bubbly, but what if every single one of us
each sent a big sloppy effusive howdy-ho whenever somebody joined?!)
Get it? A newsgroup is not like a chat room, which *encourages* these kinds of throwaway messages. That's because newsgroup posts don't just fly off the top of the screen like chat messages do. They *land* in this space and they *stay* here until each subscriber either reads them or marks them as read. The great majority of the 68 unread messages I had waiting yesterday were throwaways. Keep reading.
It's not a matter of just saying "If you don't like my posts, don't read em," because if the majority of the messages on the group are the posts that aren't worth reading, it becomes harder & harder to find the ones that are. A chat room is like a conversation; in a chat room, nobody cares if you spew drivel or not. A newsgroup is more like a forum -- kinda like a town meeting, where, if you get up to speak in front of the multitude, it's expected that you'll have something *worthwhile* to say. If you're just thinking out loud or saying "attaboy," you're not adding anything and you might as well have stayed in your seat.
This message probably should have been private mail. Your question -- the question that this message answers -- also should have been private mail. I made this a public post because I also want to point out that this syndrome infects TV-related newsgroups more than any other, and that it's the main reason why most of them are overrun with trolls and catfights. That's not so much a condemnation of TV-watchers as it is a sad commentary on (some of) the people who focus their lives around Usenet. BUT:
It's also the reason why moderated newsgroups and moderated mailing lists are born.
I've just learned about a site called ONElist that makes it possible for almost anyone to run a mailing list (moderated or not), without investing in any private hardware. A friend of mine runs one, and just yesterday demonstrated it to me. (Toni, if you're still reading, get this: he's a psychology Ph.D. candidate, and it's a psychology list.) Anyway, it can't be all that hard to do, because 6 months ago when I gave him my old PC, he was a total computer-illiterate, and now he runs the psych list and 2 others.
So tomorrow, depending on certain other things that may or may not happen, I'm gonna look into setting up a moderated South Park list. The previous moderated list, run by the selfless Tony Sanders, lasted several months and although it had its rough moments, it was overall a very entertaining place. It was free of spam, free of trolls, free of off-topic horseshit, and miles above the crap that is now dominating this newsgroup.
If it works out, I'll post an announcement for it here every week or six.
*****snipped for brevity..but all fair comment****
Despite my posting of a binary (in good fun) I concur wholeheartedly..I had decided this was my last DL of SP headers for a while (smile..guess I just wanted to see who picked up on the NAKED bait ) now, as I see others may be feeling as I do..I shall 'lurk' some more and obserev teh responses to this.
Mark,, I tend to disagree in general with 'moderated' NG's there is a tendency to squash some of the free expression that makes NG's the lively place they are. However this NG is getting a little out of hand when it comes to self discipline (moi included) . However if this is what it takes to get informed on topic discussion free of rugrats catfights..then let the group begin.
Um, well, actually the 3 trolls on the chart *don't* include Mr Aaahahaha, cuz he went into my killfile a few days ago. Killfiltering makes all the numbers approximations, but the point, I hope, isn't lost.
OK but I kinda get where your coming from. No one relaly talks much about south park anymore. Of the posts that have ANYTHING to do with southpark at all, today here are the titles.... re: BAN BLOODY SOUTH PARK NOW!!!!! Read it and w.... Tom Hanks=Mr Hanky Re: Kenny's haiku Ebert and Fatty Foods Re: South Park is a racist show
My point? Stop saying anything about responding to the trolls, we don't talk about south park ne more, etc. And start starting good posts about south park that many people will respond too. That way, you don't have to complain and be yelled at by a few (sorry!), and you can see all the posts about south park increase!! -me
He's on my killfile..now i know it works. WOO-HOO...and Aaa whatever, please go read all the posts you've written. Your a trolling bastard and "YOU GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE" -me
I think we are all clear on the fact that you should NEVER reply to TROLLS. They only post if you think it will anoy people so much they will reply.
What Mark has said is good. It shows someone who isn't going to sit around and download a load of junk. Well done mate.
There are a lot more of needless posts which could be e-mails, eg, nice one (after someone has insulted a troll which they shouldn't be doing anyway) so can we try to keep that down too?
I'm sure we signed on to this group because we like South Park not to waste people's time. So let's have more of the peace and harmony yeah?
Yes, fersure, but I figured it'd be smarter to attempt only one miracle at a time. If & when I launch a moderated list, the excessive-quoting thing (as well as the no-quoting-at-all-so-where's-the-goddamn-context thing) will be part of the rules. As one person has already suggested, once a newsgroup descends into this type of madness, it's almost impossible to reverse and the loss is often permanent.
Then again, I'm starting to wonder if there are more than 10 or 12 people here who would be worthwhile members of a moderated mailing list. If anyone's still reading this thread, email me if you think you'd participate (responsibly) in a moderated SP mailing list. This would *not* be some stuffy, prim & proper discussion forum; it would just be a place we'd try to keep relatively free from trolls, troll-feeders, spam, and nonsensical time-wasting drivel from people who come here to cure boredom rather than to talk about South Park. Beyond that, anything goes, and I'd hope it would be just as evil & raunchy & INTERESTING as this group once was.
(Note: If you're emailing from Netcom or Juno or Earthlink, please use [email]. For some reason CRL doesn't always take mail from those hosts.)
Mark, eloquent as usual in sarting this thread... I think it's really sad that this has to be so. However, it really is frustrating for me and for sure countless others to have to see so many useless posts and feeling frustrated after spending valuable time sifting through them. I have to figure out how to download a newsreader and make it work, because this Dejanews is so slow (digressing here). Anyway, although I don't post all that often, I would probably do so more, if everyone, well, got along and actually did talk about Southpark. I know TV newsgroups have a high level of trolls, but this one is just getting plain ridiculous. Is it the Southpark backlash starting to be felt? Was this ng really good before? I find it sad that Southpark is a show where some interesting issues are brought up and explored (among the madness and the wackiness of course!!), and they are never discussed in this ng. The mailing list thing sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'll be able to stop going mad while awaiting new episodes in this joyous land called Canada (feeling absurdedly patriotic today!!)
~Andrea, who's still trying to recover from Seeing "The man who Fell to Earth", the uncut version, in a Film Directors class (yep, David Bowie naked, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!) (maybe I'll insert a little message here near my name from now on, so I get to babble and not waste posts!!)
I'd like to point out that this sentiment, or some approximation of it, has appeared in more than *half* of the replies I've received so far. Know what this means? It means the trolls & troll-feeders are actually *stopping* other people -- perhaps worthwhile people -- from posting.
If I get just a few more positive replies, I think the list will be a certainty. I'm working out the details now.