Trey and Matt have done it again. Making political points in their cartoon. This election is a stupid game. Who cares if you win president. No presidents follow through on all of their promises, and voting is just a game to get power, fame, and luxury.
Election is no different than a kindergarden class popularity contest. By putting lawyers and stuff in a classroom Trey and Matt showed how stupid this is.
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How easy it is just to claim something is stupid. I agree that plenty of people are saying and doing stupid things but to attempt to seem smart by simply claiming something else is stupid is simplistic. Watching it I thought it would turn out to be one of his right-winged speeches but as it went on I thought, "hmm the kid who brings in Rosie O'Donnell seems to be more of the Bush character, so maybe he's being fair." But then boom - Trey lowers his usual pontifications upon people trying to watch a funny cartoon. And his speech was the usual conservative stuff like we got with episodes against litigation, small businesses, environmental conservation and plenty more. This talented man has turned a very clever, funny and entertaining show into his forum and it's a damn shame. It's now Peanuts meets Limbaugh.
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I agree - but I'm not sure that was the point of the episode. Yes, Garrison called it stupid - but he's just a character, his words don't necessarily communicate the theme being presented. The point was, the election fiasco in which the United States is currently embroiled is ludicrous. Not stupid. Is it serious? Yes. That's exactly why it's important to laugh about it.
You didn't notice that Ike was the apparently less intelligent of the two? Sure, Kyle and Garrison said he was some kind of "genius" - but he sure didn't show us much intelligence. Similarly, Bush graduated from an Ivy League school, governed Texas - he can't be too dimwitted. But his poor grammer and suspect knowlege of foreign affairs are akin to Ike's "I pooped my pants")
Besides, why would Bush call on a staunch liberal democrat like O'Donnell to support him?
I'm not sure I saw the episode against litigation... but I wasn't aware that the runaway sue-happy "it's not fair, I'm gonna sue" mentality was opossed only by conservatives. On the other points, the coffe shop episode wasn't against small business, it lampooned the prevailing attitude that big business is evil. And the rainforest episode didn't oppose environmental conservation, it ridiculed the hypocrisy of those spearheading the efforts.
How clever could the show be if it was simply fart jokes, little kids bleeping and Terminator-trapkeeper adaptations? Social/political commentary is what makes the show what it is - as is the case with most great art. Case in point: Rocky and Bullwinkle.
"Sexual Harrassment Panda" had Cartman suing for (and getting) all of Stan's possessions and most of the school's money- and then all of the other students started suing each other. The moral was that we should get along better and stop suing when we get upset.
And no one ever claimed that the sue-happy attitude was only conservative- but conservatives DO tend to be in favor of tort reform, which would insinuate that liberals were very sue-happy. Actually, we're not all sue-happy, we just want to be lazy and get more stuff for free. ;)
Matt G
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I thought I'd get flamed bad on that but no. Your points are fair but Ill still contend that Trey is using the show as a forum. The fact that you're able to find inconsistencies (and Matt too who answered your post) shows how he trys to make it fair. Sure not all conservatives are against litigation but he actually said in the episode something about "the democrats." I swear I wish I had a transcript of the issue he did come right out and blame democrats specifically. And in this voting episode I think he did a good job of not making it clear which side was which. But it's the speeches. He's taken to writing in speeches which did not happen in the first two seasons. Watch when one character is framed and looks directly at the "camera" so to speak, and then go off on a 100-word or so speech. It's clear in these what the man's opinions are. This is what he had Garrison say - People like you preach tolerance and open mindedness all the time but when it comes to middle America you think we're all evil and stupid country yokels who need your political allottment." That was just the middle part. Yeah he's got some agenda and it only bothers me so much because it ruins the show for me. And your points that he's not pro-big business but just against people who are against big business (and a similar point about environmental conservatists) is really not that strong to me, with all due respect. To say your anti-anti is to say your pro. It's just too coincidental to me that after that one time early in the 1st season where the script said something about opressors and republicans, that every political comment (and speech) since has been decidedly to the right. More power to that anyone who leans that way. Put it subtly in the script but whne the action stops and a character looks into the "camera" and points like Garrison did, seemingly at us and goes off for 100 words, then Trey's being a little self-involved and it's a huge distraction to me.
The only thing I can think of where Democrats were specifically mentioned was the Scuzzlebutt/Hunting episode. Jimbo was talking about the new laws that says that an animal can only be shot in self defense, at which point cartman said "Democrats piss me off!"
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spauldingae wrote:
In "Sexual Harrasment Panda" Kyles dad says he sues the schools because the "liberal dmocratic society" creates sexual harrasment laws which Kyle then calls "Fascism".
I agree that SP has a decidedly anti-Democrat slant, but I'll keep watching anyway!
On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:31:45 -0800, M C wrote:
Ah, but don't forget the reference to "Christians, Nazis and Republicans" during Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boatride.
Jeff Bishop wrote:
Point taken, but I count three episodes where Democrats are ripped on by name (Sexual Harrasment Panda, Volcano, and Mexican Staring Frog) and only one where Republicans are ripped on (Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride).
There are many examples of episodes where one side or the other gets reamed in a more subtle way where the motivation seems political. Liberals definatly seem to get the worse of it, though...
"M C" wrote in message news:[email]...
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I don't get the mexican staring frog reference. I thought they were making fun of those stupid talk shows.
I don't know nor care about Matt's & Trey's political affiliations, but I do see that people need to open their minds a little bit! Our society has taught us to think in "binary" terms -- right & wrong, left & right, yes & no, true & false, guilty & innocent, Democrat & Republican.
Now, someone might say they follow a certain political party, but it's hard to say how many of that party's beliefs that person might have. A good example is Jesse Ventura, currently governor of Minnesota. (That's a state in the U.S. for those of you who might not know that.) He ran under the Reform Party. But, his actions, beliefs, and words have always (at least in his political career) been Libertarian. He even said in an interview once that he was a Libertarian. So, sure he ran for the Reform Party, and I'm sure he believed in a lot of their proposed reforms...
What I'm trying to get at here is that whether Matt and/or Trey say they're Republican or Democrats, or whether they attack one party or the other -- it doesn't *inherently* mean that they are Republicans because they attack Democrats or that they hate Democrats because they attack some liberal views. Furthermore, if they attack some standard liberal views, that doesn't make them necessarily conservatives. In fact, I think we can rule out that they are conservatives based on the existence of South Park.
I do admire and agree with some of the more "serious" points they weave into South Park. However, I think it's pretty silly to attempt to figure out their complete political philosophy based on some jabs they make in an "animated show for adults." ;) We should all be able to make our own opinions on any given topic without people rushing to lump us into categories.
This happens to me all the time. If I say I hate Al Gore, peopel will automatically assume that I'm a Republican. HELL NO! Or if I say that Gore & Bush are both corporate whores, that must mean I support Nader. HELL NO!
I guess the overriding theme of what I'm trying to say is that we should avoid snap judgments and binary thinking. There *are* more than 2 possibilities to most situations.
"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:
Nice post, but my intention was not to accuse... simply observe. An earlier post seemed to remember a Democrat swipe in "Sexual Harrasment Panda" and I was simply reminding him of what it was.
The observation that followed was my own, and I think it was valid...
I didn't think that you (M C) were trying to "accuse" anything. (I didn't list your name in my post.) And I understand your post was just observations -- and yes, they were valid. My post was in response to some of the writings *previous* to yours in this thread, wherein people were suggesting political views for the SP creators.
Anyway, I would like to add that even if one of the cartoon characters says "Democrats piss me off!" or even if Trey himself blames Democrats for something -- that doesn't necessarily mean that he hates Democrats, or that he is a conservative or a Republican. Trey might be very liberal thinking, but yet blame Democrats for a lot of things.
Here's some food for thought:
Filmore = Gore Ike = Bush Flora = Florida
--- Willie Westwood
"Willie Westwood" wrote in message news:[email]...
I think that's somewhat obvious. The only thing out of place is that Ike's people were whing about the "confusing" ballots and in real life, it was Gore's people doing so. In that sense, the pattern breaks down.
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I may not have made that point strongly enough, but knowing what one is oppposed to does not necessarily give you enough information to know what they support - the world isn't that dichotomos. At the risk of distracting you, here is some anecdotal support:
By your reasoning, if I tell you that I'm opposed to the pro-choice movement it would follow that I support the pro-life or at least anti- abortion movement. Although I may sympathize with anti-abortioners more than a pro-choice advocate would, my position agrees with neither side.
Actually, a closer parrallel might be, if I have problems with Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or Louis Farrakhan (or all three) - that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm opposed to racial equality...
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Granted but it does enough to turn a funny cartoon distracting enough to me to lose my enthusiasm for it.
James M
"Grammar," hon.
Personally, I think I'd rather see Ike as President then either Gore or Bush. He does have a way with words. And he's cute.
in article 8v16h2$mbg$[email], natch at [email] wrote on 11/16/00 9:46:
If you don't think this whole election situation isn't just two big "kids" fighting, you are just blind. Both candidates are just whiny little bitches. Yes it is for control of the US, but really, both of them are just blowing smoke up everyones asses as with all politicians. Sorry to say but true.
Kent Brockman said it best when he proclaimed "DEMOCRACY JUST DOESN'T WORK".
Bring on the flames.
big "kids" > fighting, you are just blind.
Oh gee thanks. How kind of you to put it that way.
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He's right, it doesn't. Good thing we're not one yet, eh?