Sorry, but I have little respect for suicides.
Condolences to the family, but little regard for the person who feels they have to deliberately end their own life.
Don't give me any shit, I have had one suicide in my family and I have no respect for that person anymore.
Zappa's song hits it right on the head.
D.G. Porter said...
Personally, based on a couple of posts at WackyVoices.com, I'm interested to know the circumstances behind it. If, for instance, she had a terminal disease, would she still be a "chump"?
The lack of empathy of some members of this newsgroup never ceases to amaze me.
Tirya
[email] wrote:
If she was unable to move, like that guy on "60 Minutes," no. So far I have yet to hear any report of Mary Kay being in a wheelchair unable to tend to herself.
Have you ever known someone who committed suicide and was not suffering from a terminal illness, but had just worked themselves into a corner and couldn't face having to ask anyone for help getting out? You know what their feelings are? "Poor me. I'm going to cry in my beer. It's my own fault I'm here but I will never admit I fucked up. Screw the people who will have to deal with my death, my feelings are hurt now and they won't be hurt afer I'm dead. I'll just die."
I had to "clean up" (figuratively and literally) after a family member offed himself. The mess he left us all was a disgrace. The lack of feelings he had for everyone except himself was atrocious.
Zappa's song still applies.
as selfish an act as suicide is, so is a statement like this. woe is you for having to deal with it. fuck him for whatever pain he might have been going through, right? all that matters is what YOU had to deal with. am i correct?
i find suicide to be one of the most selfish acts that someone can commit, but i still have the utmost compassion for someone who feels themselves backed up against that wall to the point where they feel they can't go on. i'll miss mary kay and my sympathy goes out to her family, her friends, her coworkers AND herself.
amy holden: "you've got a weird thing for canadian melodrama." banky: "i've got a weird thing for girls who say aboot."
Things is, what she did was selfish. As far a I know, she had a good life. If it was unfulfilling, then she should have done something about it. She never considered anyone's else when she offed herself. That fact alone makes her a "chump".
"In the end, there can be only one, and it may as well be me!"-Kenny (from Highlander: The Series)
(snip)
How can you possibly know how she felt, or what personal demons she struggled with? Have you ever seriously considered how dreadful someone must feel not only to wish she were dead, but to actually go through with it? The "chump" in this thread is not Mary Kay Bergman.
Bill Lynch
I know that every day, millions of people, perhaps billions, struggle with similar or worse demons, and they manage to stick around for another day. Suicide is a coward's way out. And no, I never knew anyone personally who did themselves in, but I myself was hospitalized for an attempt about 20 years ago.
Yes, and no.
Who are you to make that judgement, Bill?
Maybe you lack perspective.
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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.Do you also argue that nothing is ever done for altruistic reasons, only for some personal gain?
Which means you don't know. Any possibility you're projecting your own feelings (concerning your failed attempt) here?
I'm as qualified as any other person in this NG, Dave.
Bill Lynch
I know enough. It's all about accepting responsibility.
Obviously. Personal experience is a major factor in the formulation of opinions.
Yeah, you're right. It's all just opinions anyway.
I guess it's not whether you disagree, but *how* you disagree.
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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.No. You want detail, I got detail. Cleaning up was a hassle, but hardly the worst thing in my life. I mean, the smell was god-awful alone. But I let the HazMat duo deal with the bed. Back up. He lay there for a week in the July heat. He intended to have his cleaning lady find him the next day (nice of him to be so considerate to a stranger like that), but he forgot to give her the new key to his apt.
When i got the bills I found he ran up a tab in excess of $30,000. We certainly didn't have that kind of money, so I politely informed everyone that they were stuck with a bad debt and tax write-off (this was before they put a cap of $3000 per year on those things). But that he had EXPECTED us to go deep into debt to pay his tab off, after all the shit he had pulled on us reagrding "his" money (a lot of which wasn't "his" until his wife died, since most of it came from her family), that was a little much. Considering also that he came into over $100,000 just 19 months earlier, but had blown it on a couple of "friends," contributed to our attitude.
Then there were the weird letters he wrote to some people the night he did the deed, which were sent back to us over the coming weeks by the bewildered recipients. Plus letters he sent to us and others. Not one word on internal retrospection, just self-pity. How this awful stuff had happened to him and how he couldn't live on his meager retirement principal (the $100,000+ nest egg he frittered away in a year) and how sad for him it was that his company had fired him (for putting his "friend" on the company payroll). Just two years before he practically laffed at everyone over the way he had spent all the family's money on his "friends" and how his own kids could stick it and he didn't care, because soon he was going to be vested in his company's lucrative retirement plan (that never happened) and he would be set for life.
This was a total fucking mess. And it all happened because he fucked up his life and refused to take any responsibilty for his actions. "Poor me, let my relatives eat the shit I served up."
Some people get emotionally overwhelmed by insignigficant things, and other just feel like life owed them something they did't get, so fuck the world and everyone in it too.
i don't recall asking for any details, but thank you for confirming my point.
amy holden: "you've got a weird thing for canadian melodrama." banky: "i've got a weird thing for girls who say aboot."
Nor did I. Last time I checked, this was alt.tv.southpark. While current events force conversations of a general sense regarding suicide, the grave details of one particular bout is really quite misplaced here.
AMYSA wrote in message news:[email]...
point.
'Zat the one on the top o' yer head?
your cleverness is overwhelming.
amy holden: "you've got a weird thing for canadian melodrama." banky: "i've got a weird thing for girls who say aboot."
As is your attitude in this thread.
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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.Brian Barjenbruch wrote:
How can you consider him a troll, when he just told us, a bunch of strangers, a very private and painful point in his life? Judging from what he wrote, it wasn't a "tiny" inconvenience"; it was a huge mess. It seems the opposite. This person in D.G's life couldn't handle whatever it was that was troubling him that when he decided to take it, he didn't even consider the impact it would have on his family, and that he assumed that they would just clean up after his mess, literally and figuritively.
Deaths are an inconvenience to the living. So what? It's the truth, but saying so doesn't make me or D.G. any less compassionate than you or anyone else. Any type of disruption in the general flow of life can be seen as an inconvenience, and a death is one hell of a disruption.
-Toni
But would that apply to everyone? I mean, I think it's more selfish if someone is suffering to make them go on and suffer just so you can have them around.
What is the goal of life?
If someone feels that it isn't worth living, then they're probably past the point of somebody caring or not.
It's their life, it's up to them, it doesn't matter if YOU think it's OK or not.
Best Wishes,
(snip)
Which song is that? (serious question)
Bill Lynch
"Suicide Chump" from "You Are What You Is" (1981): You say there ain't no use in livin' It's all a waste of time 'N you wanna throw your life away, well People that's just fine Go head on 'n get it over with then Find you a bridge 'n take a jump Just make sure you do it right the first time 'Cause nothing' worse than a Suicide Chump
You say there ain't no light a-shinin' Through the bushes up ahead 'N we all gonna be so sorry When we find out you are dead Go head on 'n get it over with then Find you a bridge 'n take a jump Just make sure you do it right the first time 'Cause nothing' worse than a Suicide Chump
Now maybe you're scared of jumpin' 'N poison makes you sick 'N you want a little attention 'N you need it pretty quick Don't wanna mess your face up Or we won't know it's you Aw, there's just so much to worry about Now what you gonna do?
Go head on 'n get it over with then Go head on 'n get it over with then Go head on 'n get it over with then Go head on 'n get it over with then
You're on the bridge Scared to leap But a girl walks over To take a peep She says, "DON'T DO IT!" But wouldn't you know That girl's got a head Like a buffalo With a little red hair All over the top An' her breath would make the Traffic stop She says "I LOVE YOU BUT FIRST, LET'S EAT!" And all you can say as you run down the street is
JUMBO GO AWAY! [next song]
Thanks - new to me.
Bill Lynch
In article , "D.G. Porter" wrote:
suffering
It's
and
With all this talk of empathy, it strikes me as odd that no one has yet expressed empathy for the poster above.
I apologize, D.G., for your loss. It sounds like you still have issues regarding your family member's suicide that you have not yet worked through. Have you considered seeing someone about this? Or, if you don't believe in therapy, have you atleast looked for some sort of support? I don't pretend to understand your pain- I have never had this kind of experience. But I'm willing to wager that there are other people out there who HAVE and would be willing to talk to you.
And to everyone else: We may never know WHY Mary Kay did what she did. But I'm not sure it's our business to know, and I'm not sure our empathy should be dependent on the reason. Mary Kay was afterall a human being- we may hate what people DO sometimes, but we should never lose respect for who they ARE.
YoungTOSFan
Talk is bunk. Much better to take one of his graphic (and self-pitying) love letters to his "special friend" (who got most of the $100,000, and also who forged his signature on some documents) and have it illustrated by artist S. Clay Wilson, which we did, and which was run in a tabloid called "Deadbeat" in 1986. We made sure the "friend" got a copy of the tabloid. It was pretty disgusting, and also a hilarious riot! I still laugh when I think of it! [If you don't know who S. Clay Wilson is, then you must acquaint yourself with the characers of "The Hog-ridin' Fools," "The Checkered Demon," "Captain Pissgums and his Pervert Pirates," "Ruby the Dyke Meets Weedman," "Star-Eyed Stella," etc., and "ZAP!" Comix ca. 1967-69.]
If Bergman wasn't "the voice of our beloved cartoon characters", her suicide wouldn't mean a thing in the lives of practically everyone in this newsgroup. It seems to me that for that reason alone, she became some sort of spokeperson for all those poor souls out there who can't handle their own problems and have an inadequate support system. The same people who still hold candlelight vigils for Cobain, I'm sure.
Me, I was more moved by D.G.'s disclosure than by the outpouring of emotion for Bergman and the slam which made necessary his subsequent disclosure.
Bergman was a faceless, essentially nameless (before this week) entity to me, while D.G.'s someone I've actually communicated with. Ask me who's more important to me.
And to those of you who insulted D.G.Porter, you should be ashamed. Just because his personal tragedy didn't involve Wendy Testeberger, you discounted it as not in the same ballpark as Bergman's death. Once again, shame.
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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.[email] wrote:
Then try not to think of Matt & Trey digging her up in three months, putting a stick up her ass, and using her like a puppet.
"Raaahhrr! Raaahhrr! I'm Scary Mary!"
(oh come ON! SP is DEDICATED to tastelessness. Remember how John Cleese's eulogy for Graham Chapman by paraphrasing the "Dead parrot sketch", with Graham instead of the parrot?)
furplay said...
Thing is with the dead parrot, I think Cleese believed that Graham would have thought it was funny. :) I don't know if Trey and Matt would think that Mary Kay would think it was funny, so I don't see it happening.
Tirya
[email] wrote:
Then you miss the whole point of the Meaning of Life, pally. I'd make this joke even if it was Matt and/or Trey that snuffed it. I'd think they'd want us to avoid the cheezy, pre-programmed ritual of mourning and just celebrate the life that she had. I'm sure down the road, books will remember her work South Park more than Captain Vomit or any of those other "corporate cartoons".
(snip)
Actually, this hadn't occurred to me (guess I just lack imagination, I'll probably kill myself next). Furbie, do try to keep in mind that Kyle's grandma is a *cartoon* character, whereas Mary Kay Bergman was a *person*. If you wonder what the difference is, never mind.
Bill Lynch
Lighten up, guy. We're *all* gonna be corpses eventually. Some people just take shortcuts.
In article , [email] wrote:
This is very true, but Graham's death, while tragic, wasn't exactly unexpected, nor was it by his own hand. I think the circumstances here are quite different and call for some discretion. And, as far as I know, SP has never made fun of the death of any actual person. Some perspective, please.
3finger (who hopes you never have a relative or friend who takes his/her own life)
Oh, cry me a river. I think I made my rationale quite clear here, and any idiot that still tries to make me kneel and mourn will be soundly pummeled.
3finger wrote...
What about the scenes in Hell in the south Park movie? Remember George Burns saying, "Hello, fuckface. Have you seen Gracie?" And also Mahatma Ghandi was in Hell.
Also in the movie, both Bill Gates and Conan O'Brien met humorous ends, but maybe that shouldn't count since they are both living in real life.
Indeed.
He IS right, Franz.
"Hello, Grahammy, Grahammy, pretty Grahammy!" <whap whap> "It's not resting, this Chapman is DEAD!"
Or how about the "Eric the Bee's license" sketch? "In that case, give me a CORPSE license!" "A corpse license." "Yes." "For your corpse, Graham the corpse." "No, Graham the half-corpse. He had an accident."
"And this is what it would sound like for a necrophiliac to have sex with Graham Chapman's or Mary Kay's corpse......."
PWK! QWUP! PWIKKAPWIKKA! KWUPPA PWK!
Sorry, OT here now, but..
OK, where the heck is that Wierd Al song??
<end of OT>
Lesley
"Every turkey dies, not every turkey truly lives." - Chef
Oooh! Oooh! <raises hand> I know that one!! <g> It's the fourth song on his 1988 (or 1987--I'm not good on years when I happened to be 4 at the time <g>) album "Even Worse". :)
I hope you are able sometime in your life to let go of your anger. If you don't it will only shorten yours. I am speaking from experience.
"D.G. Porter" wrote:
Better than letting go is using it to create stuff. After a while you're not only not angry, you have an acute memory of detail and new references, some of which are the basis for very dark humor.
I have always been a firm believer that there is some sort of chemical imbalance in people that choose suicide. Many people with much worse problems carry on with their lives and never even consider killing themselves. I have no medical info to back this up but its something I believe. I have known 2 people that killed themselves and the problems they had were not that major. I agree suicide seems cowardly but but for some internal reason it seems like the right thing to do for people who choose it. Just my opinion
Steve
"D.G. Porter" wrote:
Different people have different thresholds of pain. Until we start respecting emotional pain in the same way as physical, f**ked up s**t like this is gonna keep happening. You don't tell someone with the pain of a broken arm to suck it up and quit whining do you? But people on the road to suicide get that on a daily basis. There are many reasons for suicide, maybe they're not logical, but there are reasons.
ISTM that you're describing depression (although you might not be aware of that). I mean the real deal here, not being down because the Braves dropped 4 straight. There are several symptoms which indicate depression and persistent thoughts of suicide ("suicide ideation") is at the top of the list. Actually making an attempt is off scale. If someone walks into an emergency room and says he/she's thinking of being dead, he/she *will* be admitted.
Guesstimating we have 50-100 regular posters here, I'll bet my own money that our hardy band includes several clinically depressed folks and 1 or 2 (at least) who've had serious thought of suicide. What's called *mental* health still carries a stigma.
Bill Lynch
Depression is a problem with brain chemistry. If you're interested, read something about the brain's neurotransmitters. Our brains are simply a chemical soup & not all are from Campbell, if you get my drift.
In article , William Lynch writes with this very pen that he holds in his hands...
I felt like that when I was 9 and 10. I tried to overdose on my asthma drugs.
Remember this scene from "The Young Ones", where Rick tried to make his flatmates feel sorry for being so mean to him by taking a HUGE bottle of pills and started munching on handful after handful?
Neal (to Vivian): "Uh Vivian? Can you like, *actually* kill yourself with laxative pills?" Vivian (grinning): "I dunno, but I'm certainly gonna stick around and find out."
In article , furplay writes with this very pen that he holds in his hands...
No, I haven't actually managed to see it. I think they aired about that time when I was 9 and 10 (but my memory may have failed me) but my parents always sent me to bed or tried to do something to stop me watching anything after the watershed until I was 12...
He, They repeated the Young Ones about a year ago now, and it came straight in as one of my favourite comedy shows.
On 20 Nov 1999 12:39:04 -0600, furplay wrote:
YES! Another Young Ones fan! KICKASS!
Love that show.. been a fan since they were showing it on MTV years and years ago. Managed to get most of the videos (have we got a video?) too.
My favorite episode is the one where they get kicked out of their house. (it may have been the pilot episode, because the house looked totally different than the one from all the other episodes.)
"I got a leg." "That's not unusual, Vyvian." "No, no... look. I'm supposed to write an essay on it, but I think I'll just stick it on the boot of my car."
----- Lone Wolf I did it all for the nookie.
"Dr. Ruth's pussy is so old it's got mice." - Jeffrey Ross
"Forget pathetisad... is 'weirdork' a word?" "I dunno... is sarcastabitch a word?" - Kate and Drew, The Drew Carey Show
I just love the bit where rick is up on the cross and neil tells him some imortant advice:
"Crucifiction is a real bummer of a way to try and kill yourself.. You can never hammer in the last nail man"
or something like that.. :) Nathan
YES! WE'VE GOT A VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you thought TYO was a riot, then you'll shite yer pant laughing at their other oworks (besides "The Comic Strip").
THE DANGEROUS BROTHERS http://britcoms.com/video/danger.htm
A sort of Brit satire on the Japanese "Shock Boys" group. Rick as "Rick Dangerous", and his brother, Sir Adrain Dangerous
FILTHY, RICH, AND CATFLAP http://www.pedeyland.com/comedy/sitcom/filthyr.html
Rick as has-been actor Richie Rich, Adrian as his Kato-esque mooch flatmate, and Nigel (Neil) Planner as Rick's agent, Ralph Filthy ("The name's Ralph Filthy, not "Filthy Ralph". I mean, just because I run a chain of preteen brothels, everyone has to call me "Filthy".)
And the creme de le creme:
BOTTOM http://www.pedeyland.com/comedy/sitcom/bottom.html
Rick as "Rick" (see a pattern yet?) and his flatmate Eddie Hitler (who looks like a slimmed-down Drew Carrey)
Depression is pain, and needs to be respected as such. All this talk about chemicals is getting away from the point. Seeing your team lose hurts, but not as much as say losing a loved one, your job, etc. Focusing on chemicals is shortsighted. So is focusing just on depression...there are lots of mental ailments, and until the stigma of being crazy has gone away there won't be any real advancement in helping people with mental problems. "William Lynch" wrote in message news:[email]...
Yes, some people who committed suicide or attempted to have chemical imbalances. As a matter of fact, I just got some hormone test results back from the doctor's a few hours ago. Something was completely out of balance in me, some hormone was way over-produced, and that caused me to become suicidal earlier this year. I went into a depression, had anxiety attacks, and attempted suicide a couple of times back then. I was stabilized by Zoloft, but I'd still feel shitty every once in awhile. Funny thing was, I was tested for hormone imbalances by a gynecologist, and they said everything was normal, as did about 6 other doctors. Many people can have this type of thing and they don't know it for the longest time..
People have reasons for committing suicide, whether people can help it or not. I'm not saying that ALL cases of suicide are justified, as there definitely are people who do it out of selfishness and for attention. But, there are people with chemical imbalances or personal circumstances that can cause it to happen, and they shouldn't be treated with apathy. I heard a rumor that Mary Kay Bergman had a rare and fatal disease, which caused her to commit suicide. No one knew the exact circumstances EXCEPT for her and probably a few people that were really close to her. It's not in our place to judge why she committed suicide.
I do respect other's opinions, and if you disagree with me, that's fine. I'm just saying things how I see them.
(snip)
Glad you're feeling better & hope you stay that way.
Bill Lynch :-)
If Mary Kay Bergman had been a teenager, a lot of reactionaries would blame her suicide on the media. They might even say that she got the idea to kill herself by seeing Kenny do it in the "Jew-billee" episode; or by watching Conan O'Brian killing himself in the South Park movie.
Good point, Eric. Why don't we start a fake movement against the media for fostering this suicide attitude amongst our impressionable adults (like the fake movement 20 or so years ago to get animals to wear diapers)? I'm not going to note that a firearm was involved.
Bill Lynch :-)
Why would reactionaries impose an age restriction?
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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.Dave wrote...
Everyone presumes that kids are more prone to being brainwashed by the media than adults are. When a middle-aged mailman "goes postal," people blame the stress of his job, etc., but rarely the media. Yet with the Columbine shootings, we heard a great deal of bullshit about how the media supposedly inspired those kids to go on a killing spree.
Of course, we all know that horrific, deplorable violence is okay, as long as no one says any naughty words.
Why, thank you! :)
(snip)
Why, you're completely welcome.
Bill Lynch :-)
Alice Cooper's "Hey Stoopid" is a better song about suicide IMO
"Now I know you've been seeing red Dont put a pistol to your head Sometimes your answers Heaven sent Your way is so damn permanent".
I'll have to check AC out more.
http://www.capital.net/~orange/heymanniceshot.htm
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dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.A most arrogant attitude, I must say. To judge so harshly the actions of a person one does not know by the actions of one he's loved.
--- Willie Westwood
D.G. Porter...
IMHO, everyone who smokes cigarettes is committing suicide, albeit gradually.
Then again, maybe anyone who engages in *any* unhealthy or risky activity (such as eating a lot of fried foods, or dangerous sports like mountain climbing or hang gliding) could be considered "borderline suicidal."
Right, it's just that some of us are more macho about it.
Bill Lynch :-)
William Lynch wrote:
Hehehe....reminds me of what this one comedian said one time about what his alcoholic Irish friend said to him:
"Sure, alcohol kills brain cells- but only the weak ones."
-Toni
(snip)
LOL, new to me:-)
Bill Lynch