Of course y'all have seen the South Park episode that picks on Scientology, but what legal action is the cult planning to take? The story of Xenu is copyrighted, even cult members aren't worthy to hear it until they've paid several hundred thousand dollars, and non-members certainly aren't allowed to hear it.
Aside from that, how can Scientology tell the story to its members with any seriousness at all? Of course the reason they don't tell it at the beginning is that it would make prospective members laugh and walk away, but what happens when after you've spent $300,000 and learn the story? Do longtime members quit at that point? Or do they realize they're in a pyramid scam and try to recover their losses by recruiting new members even though they know the cult and Xenu are crap? Or do they actually believe it?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:54:38 GMT, John Smith wrote:
Eddie Pagliaro, A scientologist, in Las Vegas started the OTIII level, in mid 1970's he thought it was bullshit, and demanded his money back, threatening to goto the media and take his OTIIIstuff with him to the media.
He was later found chopped up into pieces and stuffed into a garbage bag in his living room.
I posted the Xenu story to the scientology usenet group, on the net in 1995. All I got was raided and sued. http://www.lermanet.com/cos/wpost.html
The times they are a changing.. ( Bob Dylan)
Arnaldo Lerma Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in suing Lerma, DGS and The Post is to stifle criticism of Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
The internet is the Liberty Tree
http://www.lermanet.com/faqs.html http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/altreligionscientology-killfile-settings.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/crowley-hubbard-666.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/flint-suicides-in-scientology-040383.htm both with IMAGES!!
"Scientologists believe that most human problems can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters" to individuals in the contemporary world, causing spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives of their hosts" [Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
What do we get from getting people out of scientology? We create an individual who has become a Houdini of all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again. People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains of all.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:42:49 -0700, "Quaoar" wrote:
I got the name wrong, it was LOUIE pagliaro
as recounted to me by ex-member Lisa Gibson, and told in her story http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/sandwiess.htm
Ted Mayette tried to find a autopsey reprt in Las Vegas years ago and called Eddie Walters and asked him about Louie all he said was , something like, yeah, he's dead. Eddie was gagged by Scientology in the Flynn litigation
Arnaldo Lerma Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in suing Lerma, DGS and The Post is to stifle criticism of Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
The internet is the Liberty Tree
http://www.lermanet.com/faqs.html http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/altreligionscientology-killfile-settings.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/crowley-hubbard-666.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/flint-suicides-in-scientology-040383.htm both with IMAGES!!
"Scientologists believe that most human problems can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters" to individuals in the contemporary world, causing spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives of their hosts" [Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
What do we get from getting people out of scientology? We create an individual who has become a Houdini of all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again. People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains of all.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:42:49 -0700, "Quaoar" wrote:
From: Lisa Gibson [ flash45 on undernet #scientologylies ] Subject: Back to the Seventies - the deaths of Scientologists David Sandweiss and Louie Pagliaro Date: 11 Sep 2000 23:34:02 -0700 Organization: lermanet.com Message-ID:
Back to the Seventies by Lisa Gibson I think enough time has gone by. It is time give out the facts about my story First, no one that ever webbed my story as provided by my sister Lavenda or Steven Fishman ever asked me what happened. They took the word of my sister and assumed Steven Fishman was telling the truth in his "book" Lonesome Squirrel" and on his web site Regarding Louie Pagliaro I dated Louie for a short time when I was on staff in HCO [ HCO is what scintologists call the "ethics" department that also sends mail out and routes mail coming in ] at Las Vegas [ scientology] org.
Louie was not on staff but was a public "OT"
I was told to stop seeing him because he was not a 'staff member'.
I did so He had a problem with that and I heard later he requested a refund and started questioning OT levels.
He told me that he had spent 50,000 in Scientology going up the bridge I had been on staff about 4 months.
It was there that I met my future husband David Sandweiss He had been in Scientology for years We both left Scientology and got married Sometime later. Chuck and Madeline ?Maddy' Reese of the Go [ Guardians Office now called OSA ]came to out to our apartment.
They wanted us to ruin the career of a local Psychiatrist Chuck Reese made the comment that I could be driving a cadillac just like he did.
In the meantime Louie Pagliaro had started living with an OT Showgirl named Pat.
She went on the road with the show. I heard they had befriended a homeless man.
Louie was later found murdered.
Cut up and stuffed in a plastic bag in his living room The police were looking for the "homeless guy"
Later, David called me one day from a hotel, said he had been gambling all day met a rich guy and his freind and they invited us to join them for dinner and a show.
I joined them and it was all very weird...They gave us a room, they made us uncomfortable all evening. One of them kept looking angry, kind of pouting. I recognized him later as Quentin Hubbard.
The next day David confessed he had 'had sex' with one of the guys. That afternoon before I arrived, when I asked him if he wanted a Gay lifestyle he said no. He was a little drunk, and things got out of hand....
After that our marriage fell apart. He had decided to work for the Guardians Office, now called 'OSA" and we went our sepreate ways.
He had decided to work for the Guardians Office, now called 'OSA" and we went our separate ways.
But we wrote letters to each other as freinds A few years later, I was traveling from Florida to seattle I had a connecting flight in Las Vegas and had some time to kill Enough time to go visit my ex husband David I knew his address from the letters I decided to surprise him I picked up a bottle of champagne and two glasses I knocked on the door. A very hostile man answered it.
He was not pleased to see me.. I told him who I was...
I thought he was hostile because I was an ex-scientologist I could hear them talking discussing that I was there I waited 5 minutes later, a second man brought David to the door He looked sleepy, looked as if the the other guy was helping him stand up straight For the first time ever, David said some very cruel things to me and told me to leave I left the bottle of wine and the glasses I had brought at the front door With a note that said "have a nice life " Lisa David was a good man I went to the front of building and called a cab I heard someone running over the rocks, and I thought david had changed his mind.. and then I realized it was the two guys from David's apartment I stepped back into the bushes and waited for them to leave I heard one of them say "Look over here" I hid in bushes untill they went back inside. I realized then that David said those mean things to protect me
After I arrived in Seattle Washington and then heard that David Sandweiss, my ex-husband had blown his brains out. I also found out years later that David died 2 months after Quentin was found dead in his car "in the desert"
For years I thought I was alone and never told anyone until 1996 when I thought I needed to protect my sister Lavenda She took my story and twisted things around and used it to gain credibility with Arnie Lerma She stole my identity, and made him think she was me Also at the time she was associating with Steven Fishman again - who in my opinion has worked both sides of the street for many years just as Lavenda. worked both sides of the street Think what you wish the whole of the truth will all come out sooner or later Lisa Gibson PS: In 1996 while I was on the web I also saw a picture of Steven Fishman He was the same man in the hotel that night with Quentin Hubbard I heard rumors David was Quentin's lover for some time, i don't belieive it When I saw Quentin, he was very sad.
(c) 2000 Lisa Gibson ALL RIGHTS RESERVED I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak. The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD" From: Tilman Hausherr Subject: Re: Back to the Seventies - the deaths of Scientologists David Sandweiss and Louie Pagliaro Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:24:31 +0200 Organization: Xenu's Ranch Message-ID: Fishman claims this:
==== The materials were stolen by Lavenda Van Schaick, an ex- member, from Gerry Armstrong, an ex-member, who was Omar Garrison's research assistant at the time. I recovered these materials from an air conditioning duct in Lavenda Van Schaick's sister Lisa's apartment, during a raid in which Lisa Van Schaick was raped as a diversionary tactic by two Sea Org staff members. I had occasion to read these documents before turning them over to my senior (supervisor), ADG (Action Deputy Guardian) Fred Hare of the Guardian's Office, who had ordered the mission.
==== Is this accurate?
Tilman From: Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com> Subject: Re: Back to the Seventies - the deaths of Scientologists David Sandweiss and Louie Pagliaro Date: 12 Sep 2000 14:05:30 -0700 Organization: lermanet.com Message-ID: In article , Tilman says...
nope >
no, at least part of this is fabrication, there was never "a raid in which Lisa Van Schaick was raped as a diversionary tactic by two Sea Org staff members. "
In this one sentence, the name used "Lisa Van Schaick" is fictitious Lisa Gibson is one person, the nick known as Flash45 on IRC undernet, Lavenda Van Shaick is one of Lisa Gibson's SISTER's many names...
Who is Lisa Van Schaick ? this is a fishman confabulation Re the 'rape' and 'raid' - Lisa Gibson knows nothing about this...
as far whatever Lavenda might have said, her credibility is zero.
as she says whatever she needs to say to accomplish whatever nastiness she is up to.
Re Steven Fishman's 'story' it is a story...
Ask Steven about Quentin He wont talk about that i bet..
I suspect thats his Ace in the hole keeping him alive...
Arnie I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD" Arnaldo Lerma Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in suing Lerma, DGS and The Post is to stifle criticism of Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
The internet is the Liberty Tree
http://www.lermanet.com/faqs.html http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/altreligionscientology-killfile-settings.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/crowley-hubbard-666.htm http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/flint-suicides-in-scientology-040383.htm both with IMAGES!!
"Scientologists believe that most human problems can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters" to individuals in the contemporary world, causing spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives of their hosts" [Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
What do we get from getting people out of scientology? We create an individual who has become a Houdini of all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again. People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains of all.
I don't dare quote it directly, but how about a document in St. Elron's own handwriting which describes specifics such as Xenu, a planet called Teegeeack, and a volcano on an island called Hawaii on that planet. Other specifics include a galactic federation of 76 planets, and that the butchery occurred 75,000,000 years ago (very space opera).
You Scientologists are worse than politicians, you not only say X then deny ever having said X, but then sue anyone who says you said X. And at the same time you deny having said X, you claim X is copyrighted and that even referring to it violates the DMCA. And you wonder why we laugh at you.
John -- the incident of butchery in question was not the Xenu story, but rather the story of how a guy named Eddie Pagliaro was found butchered into many pieces after he threatened to reveal the contents of OT3.
Robin Lehman of east coast big money Lehman Brothers was married to Cyndi Hall, sister of Gerri Hall and long-time $cientologist. Robin did one session of Oatee 3, said "This is bullshit." got up and walked out.
For some reason they didn't bother that billionaire. Not sure why. :-)
"Skipper" wrote in message news:171120051812306425%[email]...
As evil, ugly, and avaricious as the kult is, I suspect that most, if not all would draw the line at murdering and dismembering an opponent. OTOH, maybe they're really damned good at covering their tracks. I doubt it, though. Death by religious [sic] practice, yes. Deliberate, premeditated murder, not likely.
"John Smith" wrote in message news:2L8ff.30590$[email]...
Undoubtedly, each member who reaches that particular point on The Bridge to Total Freedom where the Xenu saga becomes an integrative feature of the possibility of further spiritual development has a different response to the demands of OTIII. You've mentioned a few possibilities. There are certainly many other tactics of rationalization. Try and imaginatively put yourself in a similar situation shaped by inordinate amounts of commitment and narcissistic evolutionary expectation.
Maybe, just maybe, even Scientology paid lawyers are smart enough to realize that going after the creators of South Park would invite a level of excoriation that is heretofore unimagined in modern popular culture.
Can you imagine Mr. Hanky scoffing at Scientology from his high perch down in the sewer?
Or how about the script writers putting in some lines for "Chef" that belittle Scientology, which would have to be uttered by Isaac Hayes, who's one of the Truest Believing Scientologists.
Maybe even Scientology is smart enough to realize that you probably ought not fuck with South Park.
Because it doesn't tell them the whole story at one time, going in. It dribbles it out in expensive little bits, which each Believer is carefully prepared and brainwashed to accept.
If you bought a $300,000.00 car, you'd probably like to think it was worth it, wouldn't you? You'd like to think you hadn't been cheated. You might arrange your memory quite carefully, to avoid facing the possibility that you'd been cheated. I think this is sort of what happens. You get invested in a goofy idea, but you've spent so much time and energy, you refuse to believe that you've chosen badly and wasted your life.
And too, the higher level members are still seen as high-status individuals by the lower-down members of the cult, which have not yet been exposed to the supreme goofiness that separates them from their "superiors." That focused attention from lower members, who are in awe of their OwE tEE members, is a powerful psychological force within Scientology.
Then there is the purely political motivations. People's families are members, and so YOU must stay a member to stay in their good graces.
And there's habituation. You do it long enough, and you sort of get comfortable with the devil you know. You get "institutionalized," like the prisoners in "The Shawshank Redemption" movie talked about.
Belief can be a fairly flexible, liquid thing. I would say most Scientologists are sincere in their beliefs, most of the time. But because those beliefs have no basis in objectivity, no logical consistency, and because they fail to deliver on marketing promises that are typically made when you join, it's also true that most Scientologists quit, eventually.
Because of the high level of turn-over, the cult absolutely depends upon constant recruiting. Most of that recruiting is done by people who know nothing about Xenu.
...we can only hope, pray, make colored smoke, read entrails (although I don't have a clue where to find any!) that COB, DM, (*), launches an attack on South Park's presentation. Court TV would have a field day. Rev. Moon would be running for cover in fear of fallout. The orgs would be overwhelmed with picketing, covered by cameras. There will be no place for (*) to hide.
Scientology has no chance of winning any lawsuit and they won't even waste their time trying.
Their Xenu story has been told now thousands of times since Tom Cruise jumped on Oprah's couch, from reputable print media, to very popular shows like Colbert Report and Jon Stewart's Daily Show.
You cannae copyright ideas. This silly assed cult tried to sue the Washington Post some years when the paper exposed the horible truth about Xenu to a smirking world. The judge tossed the suit out in jig time. This made everybody laugh evern harder.
It has managed over the years to get more than a few to pay $5000.00 for the OT III courses. I don't get much more serious than $5000.00 for this load of steaming horse poop.
Many do.
Many learn to torture logic to far beyond the breaking point to rationalize it.
There is nothing in this world so stupid you cannot get a few people to believe it if you learn to get people to rationalize things your way.
The scary part is, some times all they want is for you to believe in Xenu and pay them $5000.00. But sometimes all they want you to do is kill all the Jews and invade Russia.
There is an ugly little lesson in all of this.
Thankfully, Southpark helps a lot of people see through this sort of dangerous thinking.
First of all, remember it is the ACTUAL WORDING of WHOLE DOCUMENTS OR PROGRAMMES which is copyright, for the sake of the work done in composing those words. It is not the ideas contained there, or even the lists of information -- unless substantial work was done to collect and arrange the information in that way e.g. travel info got by actual travel and letter writing.
This programme is different to the old Internet disputes.
When debating Scn before third parties, the game was played like this. First someone would describe what they knew the ideas were (which is legal), and the scienos would say "you're just making that up." Then someone would quote small sections for discussion (which is legal), and the scienos would say "you are just quoting odd bits out of context we won't believe you without the whole document." Then someone would post the entire document to expose the scam (which is illegal), and the scienos would sue them. And the document would just get copied to different websites in different countries faster than the lawyers could chase it.
The South Park program does not do this; it just describes the ideas, which everybody mow knows are accurately stated.
Some do that. CofS still has their money though.
Some do that too, on the principle of good money after bad: they are in denial that it can be rubbish simply BECAUSE they have spent a lot of money on it, and to admit it is foolish is to admit they have been made fools of.
__ .\|/////..
||_.-' '. /\\|// ----
// ; | ----- The only real crime for
--._// .\|/. .==== =====. --- which one can be punish
(( //(####) \d]>||<[d]>\ (~\ -ed by governements of
// .' : .'___' : ' has the huge sums nec-
// ; '. ~===~ /\ -essary to hire lawyers,
// . .... o : /__\'''' / \ once can often get off.
. \\\\~~~~|~~~~~~~|\\ / /\/,,,L.RON HUBBARD,
. | .\''. |/''''/.|,,\\ //,,,,,,,Phat Dead Phounder of
'.|: O :|[ / ]|,,,,\/,,,,,,,,, the $cientology cult.
----------------| '...' |[__O__]|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[in HCOPL 20/sept/1976]
|_______|_______|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,