millenium episode

wow....sP has been on a real good streak lately

mill. episode was cool. i laughed my ass off when i finally saw God

I'm glad someone feels that way, I think SP has kind of stunk this season, and get more bothered everytime they bash God.

Well, since god is a fictional character with no copyright (as much as various religions try to claim that their's was the first!), South Park can interperet the character any way they please. :)

Greg

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Well, I don't know about the all mighty creator being a fictional character, however I do agree that they can portray God anyway they like on SP.

I won't be on any quest to end SP, I love SP, but I do believe in God, and I fear for Matt & Trey's souls.

You don't need to be arrogant about it Cock, Beer?

The pretentious/sanctimonious "fearing for the souls" of people whose main transgression is not being as pious as you are, is about as arrogant as it gets.

This episode had its flaws, but humor about God was not one of them. If you had paid any attention to the plot you would have seen the very nicely presented moral lesson that it included. Others here have already pointed this out, but you seem content to ignore it. Your loss.

Too many members of the God Squad get their panties in a bunch at the mere *mention* of God in any non-reverent context. And that's just too silly to waste time rebutting.

For the sake of playing Devil's Advocate by starting a discussion up about this, why? Personally, I think God has to have SOME sense of humor about Him/Her/Itself, especially with all that power at His disposal. You have to have a sense of humor about yourself, because that has to be one of the greatest powers this world can posess. A perfect being with the inability to laugh at His own portrayals or mockeries because they *are* funny makes humor itself a sin, and we're ALL in trouble if that's true.

And assuming I made any kind of point with that, adieu. ^_^

-Kim "Obsessive Freaks Hotline, we're not obsessed, we're healthily preoccupied. We are currently celebrating our one year anniversary, how may I help you?"-Me

"Hm..lowfat SPAM has less grease but more meat, which would make the better lube?"-Me

I don't doubt that at all, but look at the things in the movie the Mole said. Listen, I haven't been to church in years, I love SP, but I do still believe in God. I'm not here to preach, I just wanted to say that the show has sucked bad enough this season without the God jokes.

In article , "Alex" wrote:

Mole

still

show

well how else can we appreciate god's own jokes?

Are you saying God doesnt have a sense of humor? Heck, He made us!<G>.

And The Platipus

-Dan First post of 2000 on the board, YEAH!

Heh..no forgetting Dennis Rodman!! <g>

In article ,

TO HELL WITH GOD.

There. I said it. To hell with god. na na na na na. hell hell hell god god god. watch god laugh now! watch god watch god laugh laugh god laugh!

HAHAHAHAHA

ALL HAIL SATAN!!!

One thing is certain. I've never heard the word of Jesus. As cartman would say, Isn't that wonderful?

Now y'all can crucify me.

Relax, dude. God is just the adult equivalent of Santa Claus. It's just that there's no one to tell the adults that he doesn't exist, so the whole God-Devil-Heaven-Hell thing has grown into a massive religion. We tell our kids he's real, they tell theirs, they tell their kids, and so on. Just think of it as a social chain reaction. In short, there's no need to worry about Matt's soul and Trey's soul. Souls are just part of all that. They don't exist.

So, the same complaint you have about how sanctimonious the "God Squad" is doesn't apply to you as well? If you don't know everything, then how can you say that God doesn't exist? Where's your proof? Don't be such a bigot next time.

"In the end, there can be only one, and it may as well be me!"-Kenny (from Highlander: The Series)

That's rather hypocritical and arrogant. You don't know everything either, yet you proclaim that your god exists, and you don't see a problem with saying that. There is no evidence either way, really.

Where's YOUR proof? The burden of proof is always on the positive side.

This is stupid. Atheism isn't bigotry, it's the default position when there is no belief in any type of deity. Calling all atheists bigots is bigotry in and of itself, and shows the ignorance on your part. By your logic, proclaiming the existence of such a god is a bigotry towards non-theists.

But I am open to "possibilities". Obviously, you are not.

Why would you assume that your position is "positive"? Simply by proclamation?

And you're saying that I'm arrogant? First, I never stated that _I_ believed in god, nor did I proclaimed that god exist. Secondly, you tried to use your atheism as a "banner" to proclaim that others who do believe in a diety are ignorant. Whether this is your intent, I do not know. What I cannot tolerate, are those whos use philosophy (and atheism IS a philosophy) to brow-beat others for having a religous belief system. Heck, even in atheism, there IS a higher power, based upon the principle of common good for the common man; that is, achieving a higher state (i.e. the common good) through rational thinking. Unfortunately, too many people misuse this reasoning as a license to assume that religious people are irrational, and therefore are inferior. THAT'S what I meant when I said your statement was laced with bigotry. I cannot tolerate any form of bigotry (especially the so-called "Moral Majority"), and I will not tolerate irreligious bigotry. I believe that all points-of-views should be expressed; that's the easy part. The hard part is being able to balance one's convictions with that of being open to unique possibilities. Just my opinion.

Oh, BTW, "Santa Claus" was a real person. He was a Bravarian monk who gave gifts to poor children around (you guess it) Christmas. It's interesting that such acts of good deeds who create the legend known as "Santa Claus". Later.

"In the end, there can be only one, and it may as well be me!"-Kenny (from Highlander: The Series)

I think what he means is that the need to prove is on the positive assertion, ie. "it *is* there" as opposed to "it isn't". For instance, I would assume that you do *not* have a hamster up your butt unless shown or proven otherwise.

I, for one, put faith in my own senses and will believe that God exists if I see it with my own eyes, or if I am presented with more compelling proof than because certain people say it is so.

Actually, I think Greg really mistook the term "atheism" for "agnosticism". Agnosticism, which I consider myself to be of, is the belief of open possibilites, whereas atheism is the stubborn, closed-minded, and unsubstantiated insistence that God does not exist, in many ways similar in mindset to the religious bigots themselves.

Oh YEAH!!??

Well, as they say in 'Nam, "Phuc yu tu!" Stubborn, maybe. Have to be with all these fuckwit Christians running around telling me I'm doomed. Close-minded? Why? When I reach the only possible conclusion, and some fuckwit Christian comes up into my face and tried to tell me I'm damned, and if I don't bend over for him, then I'm closed-minded? Shit, that's a conclusion waiting to happen! Unsubstantiated? Gimme a fucking break. All they've got is some silly book full of tripe. Oh well, arguing with a nutburger is like trying to push a chain.

It looks like you missed my point completely.

Sure the most sensible default position to take if you can't see it or have any proof to its existence is to assume that it isn't there, but why *insist* that "God", or anything like it, can't exist in any way or form, unless, of course, you've got some strong and irrefutable proof to support your claim?

Personally, I believe that whatever's out there is beyond the scope of human comprehension, and attaching any human characteristics ("God likes this", "God hates this", "God wants us to believe in him", etc.) is a rather silly and extreme oversimplification of the reason for all that is in the universe. I would give the Christians' (and those of other religions) theory about God about as much credibility as I would to one suggesting that the universe is riding on the back of a big green toad (ie. infinitesimally unlikely).

On Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:13:45 -0800, "D.G. Porter" wrote:

My proof that god doesn't exist is that the idea of the christian god existing and the state of the world as it exists are completely incompatible. For example, if there really were a loving god, there wouldn't be all these diseases and innocent people wouldn't have been raped and murdered in eastern europe recently. In addition, many fundamental christian beliefs have been disproven. They believe god created everything in 7 days and that the earth is 5,000 years old. Science has proven the earth is 4 billion years old and evolution created all life. They believed the earth was flat. Science proved the earth is round. They believed that gays are sinners and are gay by choice. Science proved that gays are born gay and have physical differences in their brains from heterosexuals and there are even gay and bisexual animals. Most of the scientific community today does not believe in the bible. Christians have no respect for other religions and other gods. Why should we have respect for theirs? How do Christians know that Vishnu, Odin, and Jupiter don't exist?

Well, this god that doesn't exist has revealed to many that things would turn out just as you wrote.

And if Adam and Eve (even if those aren't their real names) hadn't sinned, you'd be absolutely right. Now, how would a loving god prevent all these diseases and all those innocent people from being raped and murdered in eastern europe recently?

"...'cause the Bible tells me so." There are many Christians who do not take those beliefs literally.

Again, the Bible tells them so. Columbus knew the earth was round. As a teaching body, the Church knew the facts flew in the face of Scripture, and had to decide what to teach next: (a) science was right (b) Scriptue was right (c) both are right, but in different ways. The Church (at least the Catholic one) now teaches (c)

And so the Church accepts science's findings, but has to reconcile them to the revealed teaching: in the OT, God declares homosexuality an abomination. We now know that this abomination is not often by choice. Therefore, the Church informs gay members and asks them to be celibate.

That's just fine with us. We'd rather they didn't anyway, unless they're Christians already.

How do you know they do? Why should anyone have to believe in more than one god anyway? But true: many Christians have no respect for other religions and other gods, and for that you can blame the First Commandment: "I am the LORD your God. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not worship any of their idols."

--- Willie Westwood

Yada, yada, yada

For God's sake, put a cork in it!

Bill Lynch

Wow. I must be doing something right to elicit this response. I think I'll leave the cork off.

--- Willie Westwood

If god's all-knowing, he would have known they'd sin. Besides, why be a total dick and toy with them like that!? Seriously, that's one of the first in god's many joker-like pranks and proof of inperfection. Such a dick doesn't deserve to be a deity or a fictional character that people worship.

Why would the perfect god create someone who's instantly an abomination!? If I was a gay person, and believed this dogmatic claptrap, I'd be suicical! "I'm sorry, but you've been an abomination from birth...just don't have sex ever, and you'll be OK" ....BLARF

Yeah, we don't want rational people in our bleating sheep club! :P

Greg
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Well, yeah. Just like a parent knows a child will scrape his or her knee. Should God now prevent people from sinning?

He didn't toy with them at all. He just told them not to sin. What would happen they had to find out for themselves.

Oh, well.

I said "homosexuality", not "homosexuals." There's a difference.

Ahem. "I'm sorry, but you've <b>had</b> an abomination from birth...just don't have sex ever, and you'll be OK."

I suppose I should get out then, huh?

--- Willie Westwood

Oh, maybe because it's an all powerpull deity that created the universe out of nothing!?!?!??!?! Or at least, that's what the myth says.

It was a fucking game for him! "Here's an apple....don't you eat it!" What a dick. If Gaaaaaawd was so loving, he woulda just created humans and let them be happy instead of being a prankster cock. Buuuuut, since it's just a fictional story, I don't let it bother me that much.

Is there? Explain....

You are one sick bastard....and an unrealistic one at that.

Please don't....

Greg

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Greg wrote:

Yeah, don't go, Willie. Every newsgroup needs a laughingstock.

Paul M. Gonzales

If I'm to be the laughingstock, fine. I wasn't the one who defined hope as a fear of death.

--- Willie Westwood

Oh, there was something before the universe was around. God. I could say he created the universe out of himself, but I'm not gonna. A being so powerful as god must have a great deal of patience to go with his power, so as not to beat people over the head with it.

But he did create them happy! Who knows how long people existed before they sinned? The days in 1 Genesis are akin to eras in science. The Bible says that satan was god's chief angel, but got so proud that he thought himself god. For that god sent him down below: "There can be only one." When god got around to creating man, satan was ready to lead them astray. And yes, it had to be "Here's an apple....don't you eat it!" If god had to explain why they shouldn't eat of the tree of good and evil, he'd be leading them to sin himself.

Okay. Homosexuality is homosexuality and nothing more, but homosexuals are more than homosexuals. If all a homosexual is is a homosexual, there'd be no difference. But a homosexual is also a pianist or architect, scientist or theologian, a member of a family, a leading figure in a community. Homosexuality is just one part of a homosexual, not his entire identity.

Heheh. Next time, don't say "I'm sorry, but you've been an abomination from birth...just don't have sex ever, and you'll be OK," and I won't have to say what I did. Besides, where is it written (I mean, deduced) that all homosexuals are born this way?

--- Willie Westwood

eastern

I have to comment on this:

I completely disagree. If god exists then he almost HAS to let bad things happen. eg, it's like he was a parent. You woulddn't be allowed outside, because you could be hit by a car, you coudln't talk to people because you may pick up naughty words or phrases. This does not/cannot happen, so everywhere you go you are influenced. A loving god may not protect these *innocent* people. In the far east these things are viewed as punishments of sins, and also my argument above. Also surely people cannot be saved from themselves... (etc mary kay.)

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In article ,

running

some

damned,

that's

silly

Ah, yes. The famous "Why do bad things happen to good people?" defense. It's an understandable argument but on the whole it's untenable. People who use the existence of suffering as proof against the existence of a greater force are generally operating from a false sense of entitlement, ie. they assume that they were put here on this earth to be happy and comfortable all the time. As Matt and Trey emphasized in this week's lesson, this is simply not the case. Without suffering, happiness (and life in general) is meaningless. Without pain, we cannot grow and mature. Many of humankind's greatest virtues are revealed in hardship. Disease inspires medical inquiry, which leads to greater scientific understanding and potentially a cure. A natural disaster inspires acts of charity. People are less inspired to innovate when they are completely satisfied with the state of the world. Altruism cannot exist without suffering, and courage cannot exist without fear and danger. To quote a line from the movie Angus, "You can't be brave if you're indestructable."

Think of it this way: When you were a teenager, I'm sure you prefered that your parents stay out of your business. You wanted them to treat you as an adult, allowing you to make your own mistakes without their interference. As a South Park fan, it's likely that you objected to parents sheltering their children from all that is disagreeable in the world. At least, that's how I was when I was a teenager. And most agree that the best parents are those who allow their adolescents the chance to make their own decisions and learn from their own mistakes. At the risk of falling into the trap of anthropomorphism, I believe that the greater force, or God, works in the same way. Possibly God's greatest act of love was giving us the free will to make our own choices, even if that created the potential for us to stray from "the plan."

And may I remind you that while there is evil in the world, there is also a great deal of good. If there is a Creator, it (I say "it" because I believe the greater force has no gender) must be given some credit for BOTH. And one does not have to be a fundamentalist to believe in God. Certainly, I am no fundamentalist- I believe the Torah was written by man in a language quite insufficient to explain the mysteries of the universe. It holds value not as absolute historical truth, but as a set of allegories and some true stories that have, over time, expanded into myths and legends. I believe that science does not have to be in conflict with the idea of a greater force, and I believe that science often points toward rather than away from the existence of such a force.

Lastly, I will say that just because you can't see (or hear, or feel) something does not mean it doesn't exist. We could not see the atom until very recently, but the atom still existed before the electron microscope.

My $.02, YoungTOSFan

*crap snipped*

Yah, Willie...I'm sure all the children born in the ghetto or born starving right out of the womb in Ethiopia are just SOOO thankful for the freewill they were given to cause their misery....

Greg

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In article ,

the

I do not suggest that they should be thankful for their misery. What I DO suggest is that happiness cannot exist without pain. And one of the great things about free will is that YOU have the free will to CHANGE what unsatisfies you. If you are disturbed by images of poverty, become a philanthropist. Don't just sit in front of your computer and bitch about it. And don't demand that the greater force hand humankind everything on a silver platter- in this situation, we would be as naked and mindless as Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

I believe man is in a partnership with whatever God is out there. We are not controlled by this force, but are simply guided. I believe that this force is indeed all powerful, but in the interest of our personal liberty (which I'm assuming you value) it has decided to avoid interfering with our free will. Overall, it is illogical for you to be a fan of South Park, an aggressive defender of free speach, and at the same time rail against a God that won't shelter you from all pain. The principles of free speach demand that we allow ALL people the right to express themselves, even if their opinions may disturb some. In other words, in this country, people are NOT entitled not to be disturbed. If you believe this, then how can you believe that people are entitled to complete protection from suffering under the wings of a higher power? Already, if you believe in the American rhetoric supported by South Park, you've acknowledged that people are NOT entitled to this total protection.

BTW, I am not Willie- I am a liberal Jew who does not believe homosexuals are innately sinful, nor do I demand that they remain celibate. (I would hope, however, that they would have sex responsibly, not for religious reasons, but for purely pratical ones, ie. it is HEALTHIER emotionally and physically to remain fairly monogomous.) Please get your writers straight next time.

YoungTOSFan

This sounds just a bit condescending, as if heterosexuals do not need or deserve the same counsel.

Uh-oh. Cans of Worms opened .......... 1

In article ,

sinful,

that

purely

remain

or

Now you are stupidly assuming that because I counsel homosexuals to be monogomous that I don't give that same counsel to heterosexuals. OF COURSE I give that counsel to everybody! DUH! I'm a peer health educator, and I've counseled people of ALL sexual orientations to remain fairly monogomous.

Don't jump to conclusions next time.

YoungTOSFan

No, I'm not "stupidly assuming." I'm pointing out a rather glaring innate bias in your fingerwagging. Any real "health educator" would know better than to make public pronouncements singling out one group for behavioral warnings, even obliquely, as you did. A real health educator would know that such a technique usually backfires.

(I should also think that any real health educator who apparently discusses monogamy often during his work would also know how to spell it.)

Sad but true. A lot of self-proclaimed peer educators make these kinds of mistakes but are either too preoccupied or too full of themselves to realize the impact of their slips. A peer educator needs to take extreme care to avoid placing blame, directly or indirectly. Ignoring this can quickly and permanently alienate your counselee.....even if he or she DOES check all the happy boxes on the evaluation form.

In sexuality-related counseling, the client often senses any lack of empathy in the counselor long before the latter realizes he's screwed up. Many supposed "peer educators" hold their positions with no qualifications at all (as either peers OR educators), and many wouldn't know empathy if it bit them on the ass. They speak condescendingly without ever realizing it, often believing that an overly calm and faux-grandfatherly tone is enough.

By far the most invalid conclusion that's being "jumped to" here, YoungTOSFan, is that advice from you makes a difference just because you're giving it. It sounds like a little humility might benefit both you and your clients.

Paul M. Gonzales

In article ,

be

OF

remain

innate

better

behavioral

know

EXCUSE ME, but you don't know anything about me. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT sit in judgement of my peers. (Although it sure sounds like YOU are sitting in judgement of me with no real knowledge of how I conduct my business. Who needs humility here?) I DO NOT assume that my advice makes a difference. I would like people to live physically and emotionally healthy lives because I'm a compassionate person, and I have some ideas on how this can be accomplished, but you are MISTAKEN if you assume I believe in taking away people's ability to choose their own paths. I SUGGEST, but I also believe in free will and I know I can't force my advice on others. People come to me freely and ask for advice, and I give it, but after that it's up to them to make the decision that's right for them. And for your information, I am not a "self proclaimed" peer health educator- I have received training from a legitimate health education program through my university and I work under health education professionals. And I DID NOT single out homosexuals- what I did was address the question of their sinfulness, brought up by Willie, NOT ME, and argued that homosexuals WERE NOT innately sinful. I WAS RESPONDING TO SOMEONE ELSE'S ARGUMENT AND DEFENDING HOMOSEXUALS. If heterosexuality were at issue, I would have addressed it, but it wasn't. If you think homosexuals are being singled out, speak to Willie, not me.

And Mark, I apologize for not spelling monogamy correctly, but seeing that many people disregard all sorts of spelling and grammar rules on the internet, I was unaware that somebody would choose jump down MY throat (and no one else's) for this kind of error.

I'm sorry you were offended by my DEFENSE of homosexuals. But to me, it seems like your reading into my statements intentions that do not exist. Please do not accuse me of holding any prejudices against homosexuals, ESPECIALLY since you don't know me nor my friends, some of whom are gay. False accusations are my biggest push buttons, and I am frankly OFFENDED by your statements.

Overall, you have no idea who I am, and if you are going to sit there and make blanket statements about my attitudes without this knowledge, then I refuse to continue this conversation with you.

YoungTOSFan

Honestly guys, First of all you need to have a humor about somethings that are serious. Also you christians are way too uptight about your religion. You have to be right about it too. I'm of Pagan faith and you guys have the audacity to tell me that mine is the faux god? I do not want to preach like everyone before me has done, all i want to say is stop taking things so literal.

Well, if they don't get on you for being pagan, they'll get on you for being the sex-toy of homosexuals, ya gaddam gerbil! *squeeeeek* :)

Greg

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YoungTOSFan wrote:

What the hell? Nobody even implied this. If you're gonna throw a conniption, at least have it make sense.

this

Oh, cool yer jets. There were no "blanket statements" here. There was INFERENCE, based upon your (rather careless) comments, followed by points about how some peer educators fuck up. I didn't say YOU were a self-proclaimed peer educator. But beyond that:

Your comments aren't beyond reproach just because you don't hate gay people. You seem way too obsessed with pointing that out. And you seem way too sensitive about having your purity questioned, which is not a good attitude for a counselor. Also, you might wanna look up humility.

Paul M. Gonzales

All i can say is:

OUCH!

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Tell the people living in pain that....if they could have a painless world of happiness, I'm sure they'd take it.

How is a starving kid in a poor country going to change his/her situation!? They're at the mercy of those who would help them...there's nothing they can do themselves. Freewill delt them a shitty hand I guess...

This isn't the issue. I'm in a comforable position. And no "gawd" did that for me. I happened to be born to a financailly stable family, in a country where you can make your dreams come true. My point was this whole thing about "god" giving free will and you make your own life is bullshit. You can make your life what you want in America, but "god" supposedly isn't American. People are born in shitty places and can't do anything about it.

I don't expect that at all...I don't believe in a greater force.....but people make it seem like this "god" sets this array of great life possibilities in front of us, and that's just not the case. And actually, it's the religious folk who are always praying for this and that who want everything handed to them from "god" ....so don't bitch at me about it....I'm making my own life work for me.

Well, people sure are controlled by the mythology of this force...

Free will or not, if there even WAS a biological reason for there to be a "higher power", it definitely would not give a rats ass about ANYTHING we do...........but people have humanized "god", so it is what it is....

Eh? I'm not railing against anything! I merely say that the bastard doesn't exist.

I don't know what the crap you are talking about..........anyone can believe in whatever they want.....whether it has any logic behind it is another story....

Ooooo K..... I've mentioned a billion times that I don't believe in a higher power so your point is moot.

Well, EVERYONE should be sexually responsible. :)

Greg

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In article , Dilpimp wrote: <snip>

You're obviously missing my point, which is that YOU, Dilpimp, have the power to change what upsets you. This may be an imperfect world, but there is a failsafe- humans (hopefully) are disturbed by the suffering of their fellows wrought by this imperfect world and are motivated to ease that suffering, whether through scientific advances or simple charity. But it seems you have chosen not to act on this universal human spirit- instead, you remain complacent in your comfort.

What you are arguing is that if there was a God, he would not allow human beings to suffer as they do. Therefore, you expect any God figure that might exist to take away all pain. The fact that no force is doing so leads you to the erroneous conclusion that there must not be a God. What I am arguing is that suffering does not disprove the existence of God, and I am doing so by questioning the implicit assumption that any God figure would not allow suffering to occur.

Overall, you are not considering the consequences and assumptions embedded in your arguments.

But, I am getting tired of this discussion, so I will end with this last word: despite what you may think, not all people who believe in God are idiots. (Einstein believed in God, FYI) SOME people who believe in God behave in ways that I personally find reprehensible, but this only proves human fallibility, not the nonexistence of God. What you are doing is throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.

YoungTOSFan

Does your e-mail name mean that you're a young fan of Star Trek original series?

On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 04:29:35 GMT, YoungTOSFan wrote:

Wrong. Happiness cannot exist WITH pain.

Reach wrote in message news:[email]...

Try posting THAT on Alt.sado-masochism !!

;')

Hmm. Without evil there could be no good. Without pain there could be no pleasure. Without a left there could be no right.

--- Willie Westwood

Without pain there could be no pleasure. Without a left there could be no right.

You're saying things can only be judged as compared to others?

we wouldn't know *good* unless we knew evil.

no 3. is bull though.

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That's one of the basic lessons a child learns. But we adults know there's more to life than that, right?

It's possible to know *good* without knowing evil. But good would be meaningless without evil. By the same token, it's possible to kniw "evil" without knowing good. And that is troubling, since what I might consider evil another might consider good, and that's why I don't judge. I'll freely express what my faith teaches, but final judgment is not mine.

Ooo, you're sneaky!

--- Willie Westwood

I don't see why they shouldn't be...

--- Willie Westwood

Squad" is doesn't apply to you as well? If you don't know everything, then how can you say that God doesn't exist? Where's your proof? Don't be such a bigot next time.

Uh, did you get your messages confused? Mark Tangard mentioned the "God Squad", not me. Anyway, let's not turn this thread into another off-topic rollercoaster ride. I'll end my part of it by just saying that if you want proof that God doesn't exist, all you have to do is put your beliefs on hold, open your eyes and look around. It's that simple.

In article ,

What do you see in the world that disproves the existence of some higher force? Just curious.

People have a tendency to anthropomorphize this force, and I have a theory that it is this tendency with which agnostics and atheists have so much trouble. (And it is this tendency upon which Matt and Trey were commenting.) I am not a Christian mainly because I disagree with what I perceive as anthropomorphism in the character of Jesus. But I also object to the total rationalism of some non-believers because I believing rational thought is insufficient. (You can rationalize anything you want.) And snobbishness from both believers and non-believers really drives me crazy.

I loved the lesson in the millenium episode. I find myself agreeing more and more with South Park's philosophy, and that just adds to my enjoyment. I also thought the sexual confusion of the boys was hysterical.

Regards, YoungTOSFan

Maybe this will help the readers here with the above terminology:

"The word is 'anthropomorphize'."

"Definition?"

"To apply an anthropomorphism to."

"Can you please use it in a sentence?"

"Anthropomorphize is a very difficult word to spell."

Hehhehheh! No seriously, maybe the following will help (thank god for online Internet dictionaries):

Main Entry: an�thro�po�mor�phize Pronunciation: -"fIz Function: verb Inflected Form(s): -phized; -phiz�ing Date: 1845 transitive senses : to attribute human form or personality to intransitive senses : to attribute human form or personality to things not human - an�thro�po�mor�phi�za�tion /-"mor-f&-'zA-sh&n/ noun

Proof? Do you have proof? Have you travelled thru space and time and covered all corners of the universe to do research and come up with some tangible evidence of a higher energy or creative "deity"? Oh OK, you did? Cool.....after you did that, how did you then prove that it's a human-type ruler creature that expects the worship of one particular carbon-based lifeform on Earth? Oh yeah, and how did ancient people 2000 years ago come to these "factual conclusions" when they didn't have the ability to travel thru space and time like you? Weird. :)

*realistic mode on* ...anyway, it has nothing to do with bigotry, is has to do with there's no biological reason for there to be a deity, and if there was one, the very notion of it being this humanesque string pulling joker as described in scripture is completely ridiculous.

Greg

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On 31 Dec 1999 14:04:52 GMT, [email] (Dswynne) wrote:

The burden of proof lies with those who make the claim. That's you. In addition, you cannot prove a negative. Christians are the bigots. I hate it when christians try to argue the existence of god because then they get all emotional, turn off their brains, and say all kinds of stupid nonsense.

In article , "Alex" wrote:

character,

and I

maybe you should pray for them, because GOD only knows what could happen to them and the show... and pray for yourself as well, for loving the show, and how it might be influencing you.

I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. When I saw that Jesus was to have a big part in it, I wondered what Trey and Matt had up their sleeve on how to offend Christians. I laughed my ass off when I saw their perception of God. My brother thought it was weird that he looked like that, but then I said, "As if God taking the form of that funky looking creature makes any less sense than taking the form of a burning bush".

I really liked the episode. I loved seeing the 2 characters whom I had wanted to see in South Park for the longest time- Jesus and Chef. I thought it was cool to see Chef sing one of his songs again. The only thing I didn't like too much was that Kenny's death seemed kinda weak. I was like, "That's it?"

-Toni

thought

didn't

"That's

You really wanted more? I mean, after seeing Kenny's bloody stool (crudely animated, but my cough drop went sailing across the room when I saw it), then to know that he died because of the pressure build-up from a tampon shoved up his ass for several days?

God himself said it himself in the episode when he said something in the way of "what did you expect me to look like?" Even though Matt and Trey are in a sense making fun of the situation they are still opening our minds to thought. The first thing that came to mind when God appeared was the majority of our populations perception of pretty or attractive. Like the way Rod Serling first did with the Twilight Zone episode where the supposed pretty girl was actually a freak and was forced to live in a place where people like her can live amongst "their" kind.

Who knows this could be their get out of hell free card.

"Clarence Dimayuga" wrote in message news:84her7$i9d$[email]...

on

I

thought

didn't

"That's

season,

If there was one change I could have made to the episode, I would make the above line to the effect of "What did you expect me to look like? Alanis Morisette?" I'm a bit disappointed they didn't make some sort of reference to it.

On Sat, 01 Jan 2000 10:12:18 GMT, "Bill K." wrote:

Heheheheh.I expected this too.I guess all those Kevin Smith indie films have rotted my brain. -------------------------------------------- Me gusta mi reggae Me gusta punk rock pero la cosa que me gusta m�s es panochinta

On Sat, 01 Jan 2000 10:12:18 GMT, "Bill K." wrote:

Another change would have been for God to refuse to show up at all since it wasn't even the new millennium. I expected that that issue would at least get a (dis-)honorable mention.

god and jesus both came off looking a lot better than the rest of the town.

i've yet to see south park truly "bash" god. all matt and trey have done (imho, of course) is point out how foolish humans are. the folks in south park have jesus with them every single day of the year and they take him for granted...instead they want more. it's always "give me, give me, give me" with everyone. it's a perfect send up of modern christians who won't do anything for themselves. the south park folks had jesus...they wanted god. they finally got god and they were dissapointed with what they saw.

amy holden: "you've got a weird thing for canadian melodrama." banky: "i've got a weird thing for girls who say aboot."

AMYSA wrote:

town.

(imho,

have

with

anything for

got

Sure, I agree with that totally. That ep of SP didn't make fun of God or Jesus, quite the contrary. Jesus "got it" in that episode, when nobody else did - they were just waiting for someone else to do the work for them.

I was a little squeamish when I saw Jesus go up and talk to his Heavenly Father, but they actually did that part pretty cool. (My original fear was that they were going to turn that little part into "Mork calling Orson, come in Orson... ")

They didn't imply that believing in God or Jesus was a bad thing. But they certainly DID make a statement about the idiots who claim to believe in a certain spirituality and then counter that notion by thinking that spirituality owed them something upon demand.

On Fri, 31 Dec 1999 03:00:18 GMT, "Jack Cooper" wrote:

Yes they did make fun of god & Jesus. They showed Jesus as completely impotent, powerless, and he didn't even have anything wise or comforting to say. They showed god as a dwarfish little hippopotamus-like monster. This is how jesus and god deserve to be depicted. It's very accurate.

Humanity IS owed something if there is a god. At the very least, god should end all diseases. If there is a god, he deliberately created things like malaria, polio, aids, herpes, flu, cold, alzheimers, cancer, and on and on. Even the most devout religious people get diseases and die by accident too. All this is just part of the massive evidence that there is NO god.

God has already given humanity everything it is owed: 1. existence 2. intelligence 3. faith 4. hope 5. love

That's five things. What else do you think man is owed?

And deprive man from doing this himself? I'd rather man try and try again until he succeeds than to have god take care of it once and for all. You ask for a display of god's power (eliminating disease), but what good is that in the long run? There is sitill overcrowding and then war. And disease would return.

Maybe. But they were here long before man was.

Hm.

--- Willie Westwood

No, never done that....

Hardly.....if we were truly intelligent, these myths wouldn't be so prevelant...

Proof that gawd hasn't given anybody #2...

Otherwise known as : fear of death.

Humans are capable of this without invisble bitches in the sky.

A reversal of this horrible brainwashing...

You ADMIT of overcrowding,.....yet earlier you were saying people should be popping out more kids! JEEEZUS!

Ahhhh, on which day did gawd create disease? Is that in your wholley babble?

Greg
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I'm glad everybody is so tolerant! Maybe we can all acknowledge that religion has been used as a tool to keep people down for centuries (millenia!), for example, whether or not the existence of gods were as significant to the Greeks as it seems to be to us, their governing body used them to remove or destroy influential people like Socrates and Alcibiades, and the Romans used religion in a see saw like manner, this emperor likes christians...this emperor likes pagans... i use these cultures as examples because they fed western culture just as much as judeo-christian beliefs...and i would wager if we studied other religions from other cultures we would discover some doctrines we do not approve of...therefore this neither began nor ended with the judeo-christian mythos...nobody can expect to have a rational argument about highly charged topics like to believe or not to believe if they insist on making blanket statements, and blanket statements have a tendency of minimizing the effect that other cogent statements have made...for the record, i AM a religious person but i don't follow any doctrine or dogma verbatim and that is my choice. I choose not to exhort others to follow my personal belief system but i am concerned that this running argument about the existence of God is becoming a matter of bear baiting rather than serious discussion...every institution man has created is fallible, we have yet to create a perfect thing, yet we seem to have some pretty high standards do we not? Jung believed there was a connection between the unconcious mind, the collective unconcious, and the impulse of faith, he was a psychologist, not a preacher and these ideas are still considered relevant today...believe or not, the choice is ours so...

Calm down everybody!

I think that T & M and their creation "south park" is definitely not about judging people or ideas or beliefs...it's about making fun of them!

Maureen wrote:

Totally agree. But if you watch any discussion like this build into a full-fledged tornado, you'll notice that the friction spiral virtually *always* begins when someone takes unnecessary, overreactive offense at that fun-making. Many of the so-called "devout" who fuel these wars are simply not relaxed enough (or intelligent enough, or mature enough, or Metamucil'd enough) to distinguish between satire and judgment.

That's never gonna change. The real joke is that these folks so often insist that the rest of the world *should* change to suit their peculiar oversensitivities.

You know what "god" really is? God is simply logic. God is the fact that 2+2=4. God is survival of the fittest. God is the physical and mathematical laws of the universe. God is just how things work in the universe. God has no intelligence. God is not self-aware. God has no morality. God is completely neutral in all matters, except that everything must proceed according to logic and the laws of physics and mathematics. There is no need to pray or worship god, except psychological need. There is no purpose to our existence. Life started when atoms accidentally formed into molecules, which formed into single cell creatures by accident and so on and so forth. Random genetic molecular structures which help in reproduction survive, the rest do not. There is life on other planets, including intelligent life. Religion is a psychological coping device which is needed due to the complexities of the human brain and the emotional basis on which it operates. It is also a way of explaining the universe for primitive peoples lacking in scientific knowledge.

It is a bloody long question as to what god is, or whether it edxists.

There are many therios spoken by many famous philosohors, including karl marx. Let's not bother going through them all...

Check out the all new Totalsouthpark TALK message board! http://server3.ezboard.com/btotalsouthparkmessageboard91994

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Then, who or what did?

Tell that to Einstein.

Prove to me that intelligence makes any sense without faith. A person can claim that the earth is several billion years old, but he would be hard-pressed to prove it without some faith in his scientific methods. Prove to me that mutations lead to different species that cannot mix and procreate.

Take your blinders off. Your definition is way too limited.

The evidence is not convincing. In the 1900's alone there were two world wars. If man were capable of love without invisble bitches in the sky, those wars would not have taken place.

What good would that do?

I ADMIT of it if god were to abolish all diseases. Pay attention.

Hm. On the third or fourth day. But until man sinned, they were not diseases.

--- Willie Westwood

Hmm. And they say atheists CANNOT be bigots. Tsk, tsk.

"In the end, there can be only one, and it may as well be me!"-Kenny (from Highlander: The Series)

Arguing about mythology is not an act of bigotry.

Greg

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No, but denigrating others' belief system by making the case for your supposed superiority for atheistic is being a bigot. By not qualifying your statements in a way that is both respectful of others AS WELL AS supportive of your arguments, you come off as narrow minded. Whether you are right or not in your estimation is not the point. How you present yourself is more telling than how much factoids you can possibly know.

You'd make a great imperialist in 19th century England with this type of thinking, btw. I'm sure that you would show the same manner of "respect" for native people's religions as you have shown for christianity.

"In the end, there can be only one, and it may as well be me!"-Kenny (from Highlander: The Series)

Yes, I agree that I may be throwing a tad bit of cynicism, sarcasm, and yeah....OK....some rudeness in my discussion....but it is JUST a discussion. I would never take away someone's right to believe in whatever they want.

My main issue is people presenting religious issues as fact when there aren't facts to back up the claims.....I have no problem with people having those claims...that's their biz....but I find it amazing that so many people can buy into these ancient ways when they are illogical in almost every respect. ...oh well.

Greg

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Who or what did what?

Einstein never proved god existed, now did he?

You're mixing issues. You're trying to say that science is "faith"....science is theories based on research grounded in reality. They then set to prove the theories with more research. Religious faith says "I believe in invisible monkeys in the sky without any basis for that claim....I'm not going to research this claim, I'm just going to accept it

I never claimed any of this to be truth.....they are theories, and they admit they're theories. Studies in progess. If you gave some reality based evidence for your belief in god, and continued to research the issue, then maybe you'd have some credibility.

Is it? When religious people speak of "hope", it's generally "hope" of meaning in their life....that is, that there's something more when they die. It's an ego driven belief....

Stop talking out of your ass, please!!! You are judging all of humanity and their emotions/actions on the emotions/actions of a few men in power! Ridiculous!

So, biting into an apple creates every virus and disease on the planet? Do you have evidence to back up this claim?

Greg

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If god didn't make man, who or what did?

Nope. Nor did he disprove it. But all his study led him to wonder who or what could create such beauty we see in the universe. To him it was no accident.

Science IS faith. Faith that your observations are true, and that they'll be corroborated by other studies. Science is theories based on research grounded in OBSERVATION, and there's error inherent in observation. There's no error in reality. How many observations have proved to be false?

How many times has the date for man's first appearance changed over the years? How many times has the date of the origin of the universe changed? And if those theories could be proved, why are they still "theories" and not laws, like the Laws of Physics? The Laws of Thermodynamics?

Scientific faith says, "I believe we came from monkeys, that the apes, gorillas, champanzees are distant relatives because they have the same sort of eyes and limbs we have. I accept it because we share 99% of our genes. What's more, we all came from simple cells somewhere in the brine." But we can't breed with them, can't we? And, where are our descendants? Are they flying around in space visiting us and trying to contact us? Just try and disprove that animals reproduce after their own kind, for this one fact challenges you to find how evolution leads to new species.

But you gladly live by these theories, right?

Just look around. What force of nature could make trees and animals, rock and water, sunlight and stars? Can a tonado? Can an accident? How did the laws of physics get there? All we did was find out what they were and how they can be harnessed. What force of nature placed the earth on the angle of axis it has now? What theory placed only one moon around the earth? What theory of nature keeps the earth on its path around the sun, and who made it so? Indeed, why do we have one sun and not two or three, as other solar systems have? Alll we did was trace man as far back as we can, but still don't have that missing link.

The Christian hope is to be with god, who created us and who will receive us after we die. Where is the fear of death here? That we die and there is no god? If so, that's that, and there's no reason to fear either way. In face, we Christians hope to die so as to be with him, but we're in no hurry to make it happen - there are things to do here, after all. Death, where is thy sting? Now, how is a person who hopes for death afraid of it?

Not ridiculous! Let me repeat: If man were capable of love on his own, those wars would not have taken place. If man were capable of love on his own, the emotions/actions of a few men would <b>not have had the power to lead to war</b>! Prove me wrong! Love conquers all, if only people knew how to use it! If I were to apply the theory of evolution to love, we'd be the most loving people of all time, and yet...

No. Disobeying a commnad created every virus and disease on the planet. It introduced death into the world. God could easily have told the man and woman not to eat of the pear, or the banana (!), or the kiwi fruit, or the fig.

No, since science alone can't understand such things. Nor can science deal with emotions and beliefs.

--- Willie Westwood

Reach wrote in message ...

Ever consider the fact that maybe SATAN created disease?

...who, in turn, was created by God.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:17:35 GMT, "Gina Moyer" wrote:

God is supposed to have created everything. Even if satan created disease, god could whipe it out in an instant.

....and Gawd created satan.....which proves that an "all knowing all loving God", conceptually, is flawed.

Greg

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On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:55:18 -0600, "Alex" wrote:

If there is a god, he deserves to be hated for the incredibly evil being that he is. He created man. Then he created a host of diseases and natural disasters to plague us. Then he made it so people grow old and feeble and have to suffer through many years of pain and bad health before they finally die. Then he created this policy that unless you believe in him with no evidence to see, touch, hear, or feel, you go and burn in hell forever when you die. The devil is nothing compared to god's evil. He is the most sadistic and evil bastard imaginable. That is, if he existed. I love South Park for making fun of this incredibly stupid judeo-christian religion which makes no sense and even preaches some dangerous things, such as advocating beating children and that gay people are evil.

This south park episode is the BEST EVER!!! It rocked! It was so funny and good. Trey and Matt outdid themselves when they showed what god looked like. I think that's how god deserves to be depicted, if he existed, which he doesn't.

You've got kind of a.... dark side, don't cha?

Reach wrote in message news:[email]...

Yeah, "God" was an ugly mofo. I expected "God" to look, I dunno, not like that!

dm wrote in message news:84ga5n$[email]...

In article , "Jack Cooper" wrote:

Feh. It was a lame episode, and I was trying to get newbies interested. That ep didn't help.

Just my opinion, but I think it has to do with its being one of the more intellectually demanding and thought-provoking episodes, and therefore flew over the heads of your friends who were looking for simple-minded silliness.

Dswynne stopped praying long enuf to write:

:

Ooooooooooooo, somebody needs to (1) read the headers of each message so he doesn't foolishly attribute one person's statement to someone else, and (2) get his paws on a dictionary and look up "sanctimonious."

Paul M. Gonzales