Season 1

Many people don�t like or even hate season 1 and explain their dislike with the poor animation, the weird voices, the fact that the show was only aimed at kids back then, typical sitcom plots often without real focus, too much in-your-face morality etc etc

Well, all of that is more or less correct and I think you really have to watch the first season through some kind of nostalgian beer goggles to be able to deny the existence of such problems. However, even season 1 has some moments of true greatness and by greatness I mean not only great humour but also true masterpieces of intelligent satire and a couple of sentences and scenes with a far deeper meaning that goes well above the level of a typical cartoon for children.

Take "Bart the General" as an example: when Nelson�s loyal goons are captured they try to defend themselves with "We surrender! We were only following orders" and that�s a sentence about which entire books have been written. The episode itself is a real masterpiece of its own, using a normal schoolyard conflict between children and turning it into a parallel of war in general. Sometimes a bit lacking in content and real point (usual season 1 problem) but nevertheless a true masterpiece that defined the show as much more than a simple and funny cartoon sitcom, so personally I think that all the people who consider season 1 as completely weak and without any real Simpsons spirit are a little wrong. Certain season 1 episodes had more Simpsons spirit than most of the recent stuff. In addition, those were the days when Swartzwelder was able to write good episodes.

There were other moments of true satirical greatness and meaning in season 1 (such as Homer�s "Maybe Lisa's right about America being the land of opportunity, and maybe Adil's got a point about the machinery of capitalism being oiled with the blood of the workers" from "Crepes of Wrath") and it reached a certain cult status in those episodes. The intelligence and the wit of the first episodes were clearly more subtle and sometimes shown in form of classic background music or classic paintings (take again "Crepes of Wrath" as an example when Bart is driving through all the famous French paintings) so even season 1 has IMO always been more than a weak and poorly animated cartoon sitcom for kids but you have too watch carefully and without prejudice to see the greatness.

I�m not denying that season 1 had weak parts and episodes but I can�t agree that season 1 is not acceptable as Simpsons season. If there�s an unacceptable season, it�s number 11. I�m glad to have all three classic seasons on video while TV is mostly ignoring them.

Chris

What Are You Talking About. Later seasons are more child orientated Season 1s Are the BEST

That�s what I meant but many people just see the poor animation (which is IMO mostly a problem of the first 5 or 6 episodes) and say "Something that poor can be only for kids and is no longer acceptable by todays standards" but just don�t see the sometimes great content and stories behind the weak animation. You can have the best animation and effects of the world but nevertheless a very very poor and silly story.

However, I wouldn�t say season 1s episodes were the very best (there were undeniable problems) but season 1 lead to the best episodes ever, namely to seasons 2 and 3 which had better animation, better voices and even better ideas for deeper stories but still the more serious spirit of the early days.

Chris

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

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It doesn't make sense, and it's not fair to compare Season 1's animation/stories/characterizations against the rest of the series. Here's a show that had to <evolve> into what it was. Comparing Season 1 to Season 5, for example, is like comparing a Ford Model T to a 1995 Ford Mustang. It's unfair.

Seeing Season 1 (it was the only one available at the time) was more than enough to hook me (and others) on the show. The highest (American) ratings the Simpsons EVER got was for the Season 2 premier (7F03)... number 3 out of all shows for the entire week.

This "serious spirit" episodes may be better described as stories that are resolved in an unironic way, or a kind (gentle, serious) way. Thinking of 7F07's ending, you'll see what is meant by "kind". However, there are some of us who thoroughly enjoy irony to the point that episodes like 1F01, 9F15, and even CABF11 are what we consider classics... despite their age.

season 1 is the best? u've got to be joking... not only the poor animation, but the voices sounded shocking....the humour wasn't really that good. u have to admit the ones from season 5 to 11 are great. but i have to admit season 12 just plain sucks.....

Why do you think anybody with a different opinion than your own has to be joking? People watch the show for different reasons and have differentes tastes than yours.

Why should he admit it and agree with your own opinion? It�s his personal opinion.

Season 12 sucks but it doesn�t suck so much as season 11 did. From a certain point of view everything newer than season 8 more or less sucks with a few exceptions. IMO of course.

Chris

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

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Objectively, Season 1 has some problems. The animation wasn't anywhere near as good as later seasons. The plots were of a different type(not worse), but there's been a trend towards more and more wackiness the entire run. I think Season 1 had too little wackiness(many of it's episodes are simply not funny), but that's a personal judgment call. The voices have also changed, mainly Homer's. There have been three Homer voices in the show, and while I prefer the middle one, I suspect that's simply because the middle one got the best writing.

The most current seasons have the best animation technically, but the poorness of the writing hurts.

Opinion: Seasons 2-8 were the show's peak, with 8 beginning to show the decline. Homer's Enemy is a pretty bad Season 11esque episode(the only thing that distinguishes it from Season 11 is it taking place inside the nuclear power plant).

I absolutely agree although I�d say the animation has become more sterile and technical. Just a feeling. The poorness of the writing is clearly the worst thing. Animation was never important, important were the stories and the believable characters.

I also agree. "Homer�s Enemy" was very mean and sarcastic and a clear break with the classic style. It had some good moments but the cruel end spoiled it a little. I�d say the real decline began with season 9, "Lisa�s Sax" being the last episode in classic style.

Chris

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Maybe that's why I liked it so much. You have to be pretty weak hearted to be offended by a cartoon. I don't really see it as mean, and sarcastic is hardly a rarity in the Simpsons. Cruel? How, Frank Grimes was a fictional character, I doubt he took the abuse or premature death too seriously.

I'd have to agree with the comment about the animation becoming sterile and technical in the later episodes. That is part of what I enjoy about season 1 episodes. There are shadows everywhere, and the shading done is excellent, and it's not just the same backgrounds over and over again, because they were building something new, and building new characters. Some would say it's not good, but I would say it's just different from the rest. If you're telling me that different equals poor animation, than so be it, that's your opinion. I happen to like just about anything animated, purely for the artform that it is.

I�m not offended by it but just found it a little too much over the border between Simpsons style and pure cruel sarcasm back then (for season 8 relation) and so did many other people.

Just look into the capsule reviews, there are lots of grade D for the episode and Ondre even gave an F (well, he usually does) and called it "worst episode in Simpsons history". I wouldn�t go that far because there were many good and funny moments and dialogues but to me the point was a little difficult to see. You�re a big and funny loser if you try to achieve something, you die and people laugh at you on the funeral?

The funeral when everyone laughed was IMO a little tasteless and more season 11 style while many other scenes were very funny. Definetly not a grade F but none of my favourite episodes.

Chris

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

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This episode seemed squarely aimed at Ondre, to teach him the lesson that I brought up in the other post.

He couldn't make people reject Homer as a normal part of their world. In "The Simpsons" universe, Homer is perfectly normal. In ours, he wouldn't last a second. Grimes couldn't convince other characters that Homer wasn't a fit human being... so he ended up killing himself.

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That was just pure irony, and the funniest part of the episode. Here's a cartoon character that was 1) intolerant 2) irritable 3) mean spirited, who ended up killing himself by following Homer's example. There's the irony. None of us <real> people could exist, acting as Homer does. It was sarcastic and ironic, and Grimes was fictional... despite seeming more real than any character on the Simpsons to date. This episode also aimed to loosen up those fans who may on some level consider Simpsons characters to be more real than they are. Anyone who considers the characters to be literal, real, breathing human beings needs to relax IMO.

Good point. Maybe I should relax ;-)

Seriously, I�d never considered any of the Simpsons characters as really living, thinking, breathing or whatever on an objective level. They are drawings in a cartoon and nothing else. But the message itself and the strength of the characters and even their "soul" (don�t take the word literally) were on a subjective level IMO always a little more than that, they were always a little more than the yellow drawings on the paper and the voices and the animation.

The Simpsons were never real living beings in a real world (would anybody claim that?) but they always had - how should I say - certain qualities and facettes of real living beings that no cartoon had before. It was more but I can�t say what exactly. Whatever it was, it�s gone now.

It doesn�t hurt Frank Grimes if he dies and it doesn�t hurt Homer if he�s tortured in a most senseless and useless cruel way again and again in many new episodes. It doesn�t hurt them as beings but in a certain way it hurts the characters themselves (as abstract concepts and not as living human beings) and their meaning and it degrades them to simple fun-objects in a typical cartoon.

Frank Grimes was a drawing but his "dead" degraded him to a tool of mean sarcasm (IMO of course) and the cruel laughing degraded the citizens of Springfield to character-less drawings. The torture doesn�t hurt Homer but it hurts what he was once standing for and it makes him a stupid flat clown with the only purpose of being chased or humiliated.

Being beaten up in "Bye Bye Nerdie" all the time doesn�t hurt Lisa as a being but as a character and a concept of greatness and a symbol of - well - of being herself and it hurts real Lisa fans like me to see it. She�s degraded to a flat and empty tool of nonsense and that (and not "dead") is the worst thing that can happen to a Simpson character. So if I give "Nerdie" the grade F (what I did) I give it partly for the horrible story and partly also for the nailgun torturing of Homer and for Lisa being beaten up without sense because it hurts both characters as concepts. It hurts them not with nails or fists but with degradation (I hope it�s the correct word).

Objectively, the Simpsons are drawings in a cartoon. Subjectively, they are or at least were way more than that. How much more depends on the viewer and his subjective mind.

Pretty weird posting, eh? ;-) Don�t take me serious.

Chris

You're all starting to sound like Comic Book Guy.

Just keep it goofy, Homer dumb, I don't want to be preached at, only to laugh.

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

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"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

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Homer's Enemy could be considered a classic, because it was a lesson on how "The Simpsons" universe is not our universe... it's an exaggerated version of our universe. Frank Grimes was someone from <our> world (a hardworking, struggling individual) who, after being inserted into The Simpsons' world, couldn't resolve the inconsistencies. He couldn't understand how Homer could exist... it boggled his mind. Clearly, this was meant to illustrate that Homer et al are exaggerations of people in our society, not literal individuals.

The fact that no-one sympathized with Grimes--not even Mr. Burns--drove the point home. Yes, this is a cartoon. Yes, in their world, someone like Homer is completely normal. No, it isn't supposed to be a literal depiction of life, with literal characters.

Characters like Homer, and most others on the show, couldn't really exist in our world... not even the Homer from 7G03 or the Bart from 7F07. 4F19 taught the audience that The Simpsons universe is fictitious. It's ironic that so many fans were bothered by a character's death that 1) was brought upon himself, 2) occured in a cartoon reality. People were actually sympathizing with one of the jerkiest, intolerant characters ever on the show... Frank Grimes. Amazing.

4F19 was not my favorite of all time, but it certainly was a clever device to teach people the nature of The Simpsons universe.

You call that a lesson? You can't compare tv shows with our lifes. All of them are fictional and have unrealistic parts. But early Simpsons seasons took their universe into our universe to teach us a lesson. Almost all episodes from season 2 have at least one point that reminds us of our life and our behaviour towards each other.

So? Why? He's acting like a real living person. He makes mistakes, but he doesn't drive somebody crazy.

Their universe *was* fictious, but then they visited New York and L.A, or other cities in our world. I think that's the proof, that they *should* life in our universe. I think you shouldn't kill characters just to laugh on their funeral - even if it WOULD have a serious message.

Ben Flieger wrote:

I know I'm alone in my opinion on this one, but I think "Homer Goes To College" was the first true season 11esque episode. It had it all; no plot, Homer being a complete jerk for no reason, unbelievable story, and quite a few forced jokes. There are some things that set it apart from your average season 11 episode, but it would fit right into the BABF series, IMO. Did I mention the absolutely terrible animation? Much worse than anything season 1 turned out.

== Mike Reed

You�re not alone though I wouldn�t call it season 11esque but just a typical problem episode for the seasons past 3. It were those episodes which finally led to season 11 and to everything we have today.

The plot was forced and without message or satire (except the Nixon joke) and its only real point is to show us how stupid Homer has become. He�s rude all the time, giggling like a lunatic, chasing squirrels, almost burning down the house and running over the dean and he doesn�t learn or understand a thing at the end and is happy about his own stupidity.

That plus a few bizarre and surreal things (self-destruction button in snpp, radioactive Homer two times) makes it one of my least favourite season 5 episode and one of the reasons why the entire season 5 is one of my least favourite classic seasons. I was never a fan of the Conan O�Brien episodes.

Chris

Season one is by far the fucking best man, @qwest.net>...

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MEGA MEGA DITTO You can't beat episodes like "Homer's Night Out" or "Bart The Genius"

Not that season 2 and 3 aren't great but season 1 has it's own charm.

-Bart I said look at the floor! "Homer's Night Out"

"Joel" wrote in message news:wLMK6.45850$[email]...

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It would be interesting to know if people who say Season 1 sucks had seen Season 1 when it was first broadcast, instead of just syndication (without cuts). If so, were these people old enough to understand the humor? Those of us over 18 when the series started probably have a better perspective on Season 1's greatness. (But, no. It wasn't the best. It got even better through the years).

After watching Season 4 or Season 5, for example, and then seeing Season 1 episodes for the first time, it would be understandable for someone to say Season 1 sucked.

In my opinion, Season 1 was great. Much better than the show is now, and it was not directed at kids at all. Some people don't enjoy the first few seasons because the humor was more subtle back then. I never even got most of the jokes until I watched those episodes years after they had first appeared. Now, however, I really like those early episodes. Chris Pfeiler wrote in message news:[email]...

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I agree that Season 1 is not as bad as it is sometimes made out to be. However, I can't say I think it is among the best. As a fan of the older eps, (mostly season 2 through 4) I believe that Season 1 was inferior because the show had not yet grown to its full potential. It was far from "being aimed at kids," but it was aimed at the typical sitcom audience, so it did not yet explore the advantages of animation. By that I mean that it could be a bit less real than other sitcoms...... but there is a fine line between taking adavantage of not being real and becoming unrealistic. The show flirted with that line in Season 5, and soon crosed it. And in the last few seasons, it not only crossed the line, it threw up on it!

"Quality Shmality. If I had a TV show, I'd run that sucker in the ground."

Just a few additions to my 7 points and thoughts about season 1:

I think the main problem of today is that most people (including the writers) think the Simpsons is only about simple fun and jokes, but it isn�t or at least wasn�t. Fun and humour were always important elements of the show but they were neither the only elements nor the most important. You can�t even blame the people who prefer the Simpsons just funny and nothing else, many of them grew up with the modern show and consider anything older than - say - 4 or 5 years as sappy and old-fashioned and unacceptable but those people are IMO missing the true Simpsons of the early years.

Today simple fun and humour are the most important and very often the only elements of an episode and the writers would do almost anything to make every episode as funny as possible and they don�t care any longer about anything else such as logic, story or good taste. A story or an ending doesn�t make any sense? No problem, let�s call it self irony and it�ll be very very funny and the fans will love it. If there are a couple of fans who try to complain we mock them so often in the episodes that nobody will take them serious any longer and we call it fun and irony.

I can�t believe that todays style is how Matt Groening wanted the show to be when he first thought about the concept or when the show went into prime-time. Almost everything that made the show great and different - believable characters in real crisis, depth, stories with dark sides in balance with satire and humour - is gone and it�s partly gone not only since season 9. Really, even those people who prefer the seasons 4 - 8 can�t argue that todays Jockey Elves, crayons in the brain, monkeys with subtitles and missile attacks at New York have anything to do with the roots and the original idea.

Another early moment of true greatness from season 1: Sideshow Bob�s version of Cole Porter�s "Everytime we say Goodbye" in "Krusty gets Busted". Everytime we say goodbye we die a little (I guess he wasn�t thinking about being decapitated by a guillotine.) Maybe it�s just me as stubborn nostalgian but I�d say part of the true Simpsons really died a little when season 3 ended.

Chris

P.S. Have you ever noticed that the theme of Bob�s show was Mozart�s "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" and that he was talking about Stoicism which is a kind of ancient greek philosophy. What a show.