Here's what's happened. It's up to you how you deal with it.

The Simpsons started out as fringe.

Fringe is cool. People like fringe. People like being part of an elite.

THEN, it became more mainstream, but people still *thought* of it as fringe.

Now it's mainstream, and people *know* it's mainstream.

So now everyone has an opinion, it's an 'issue'.

Many opinions are wrong, some are right, whatever!

It still deserves some more years.

The creators know very well the pitfalls of becoming mainstream!

One of the symptoms is self-references. The Simpsons refering *to* The Simpsons.

Like the song @ the end recently, 'weve got many episodes to come!'

I hope so too. But sometimes it seems right to be self-referential, as a response to the 'mainstream' issue.

Maybe it's best to stop digging when you're in a hole, though.

If the viewers give up on the show, though, it'll be because of the boring advertising.

I thought they first crossed the line when 'clever Homer' owned a Bose radio.

But please, stop all the hate in here. There's no need for it.

Diesel wrote:

Well, what about that - it always had a balance between being fringe and being mainstream. Some years ago, that balance was destroyed and it became too much of mainstream.

I think you can also replace the word "fringe" with "smart, witty, and complex satire" and the word "mainstream" with "generic fun cartoon" and say the same line.

I agree. But there�s always need for criticism and argumentation and constructive talk about the development of the show. People should respect other opinions and alternative ideas.

The writers are professionals and they too should respect an active fandom with ideas and constructive criticism. If you write stuff for so many people, you should be able to accept different opinions and criticism (if the criticism is done in the right way and not as foul-mouthed rambling or simple "Worst Episode Ever" statements without reasons.)

A fandom without argumentation and different opinions would be a dead fandom, IMO.

I�m one of the lousy complainers and I wrote a lot of stuff about what I consider as decline of the show. However, I never said that my opinion is the only truth but always use a lot of "Personally..." and IMO and similar things in my posts to make clear that I state just what I think. People should do that more often and other people should accept opinions.

You had some good points in your post.

Chris

instead of 'destroyed', perhaps it's a new opportunity. I loved the fringe times, when they would take the p*ss out of anyone and anything, without a care in the world. But there are some good things now, that they didn't have in the fringe times. They have access to some very clever mainstream data, which they can use to keep the show clever.

• "it means gambling. keep gambling"
• [Homer has a dream, then wakes up & thinks he had a dream about something else entirely]

Cutting edge. Mainstream data can be fun.

thanks

Diesel wrote:

But a new opportunity for what?

There are many other mainstream cartoons, so I�d hardly call it an opportunity. It�s quite easy to transform a cartoon into mainstream, it�s much more difficult to keep it unique.

Sure, mainstream data can be funny, but a lot of people watched the Simpsons because of its fringe qualities (aka wit, intelligence, depth, different style etc.) and that�s why we have so many arguments and discussions now.

I try to be open-minded (and I see a clear improvement of quality in Season 13) but I think the arguments for the unique "fringe" show are much stronger than the arguments for the mainstream show.

I think they could do better things with all the data, like using it for some true social satire and thought-provocation. Season 13 had some promising episodes like "Little Girl in the Big Ten" but then it also had some truly bad stuff (IMO) from the deepest level of standardized and simplified mainstream entertainment.

Take "The Parent Rap" as good example. In the fringe days, it surely would have been an episode with social commentary about the law and misuse of law and whatever. In the funny mainstream days it was just empty slapstick.

Is this good use of data or waste of potential?

Chris

It's like any part of life though. You can't go back, so why not make the best of what you've got?

That's the thing though. 'Argument' is pointless. You can't go back to fringe.

There's been an equalisation effect.

While Simpsons has become more mainstream, the mainstream has gained a lot of the 'wit, intelligence, depth, different style' of The Simpsons. That's why we all want to debate it so much, because it IS so powerful.

A lot of things get cancelled when they get too influential. The Simpsons isn't cancelled. Instead it's just bossed around by the network.

If you can mentally edit out these ads, political references etc. Then you can continue to enjoy one of the best shows on TV.

Do you honestly think it's the _deepest_ level of simplification? It's in that direction, sure, but the _deepest_ level? No way!

I didn't think these bits were empty: "creative sentencing is common these days, that's why Bill Clinton is our mailman" "Damn magazines" "This punishment is so cruel" "and unusual"

smacking people over the head with social commentary has become uncool too. take your commentary where you find it!

I'm not against what you're saying, but I'm just saying 'enjoy'.