More oldschool rambling

Here�s a little more of my oldschool rambling ;-)

What many people don�t realize is how much they really dumbed down the show in the last few years. Take the real classic years (by that I mean 1990 - 1993). They were full of references to art, literatur, science, philosophy etc etc. Lisa quoting from "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg or other people quoting from Poe or Tolstoi, Lisa refering to Zen budhism or thinking about what God is, guards reading "Les Miserables" by Victor Hugo, entire characters out of French novels, Bart quoting from the Babylonian Talmud and sometimes background drawings which clearly resemble paintings by famous painters like Rembrandt, Escher or Hyronimus Busch. Furthermore background music such as Mozart�s "Kleine Nachtmusik" in 7G12 or political satire such as "Cesspool on the Potomac" and references to classic movies such as Freaks or Citizen Kane or The Jazz Singer and so on and so on. Let�s not forget many other famous books and works of art in backgrounds and in subtle references.

I think Matt said once that you can laugh about the show without noticing all the intelligent stuff but when you grow older and watch the episodes again you�ll notice more and more of the subtle stuff that you can�t find in other sitcoms (that�s why I call most sitcoms and most current OFF episodes "stupid" - they are only made for people who want to laugh but who don�t want to think.) But life is serious and not only fun - just as Rabbi Krustofsky said in 8F05 - and the show always reflected a certain seriousness behind all the comedy in its early years. The writers weren�t afraid of their own seriousness back then and that�s why episodes like "Moaning Lisa" or "Old Money" are that great.

I�m not going deeper now into the "dark" emotionality and into the subtlety and symbolism of some classic episodes but all these things were always present in the classic years. An episode packed with symbolism and deeper meaning is for example 7F13 "Homer vs Lisa and the 8th Commandment."

Today? Show me your boobs. No outdoor sex. Panda rapes. Crossbreeding. Homer torture. Stupid slapstick for the masses. No satire, no connection to reality and a kind of sitcom humour and pop culture references even a 10 year old would find superfunny without anything more and deeper to notice for older viewers? Is that what show now stands for?

So what about season 13? Homer, Homer, Homer. Homer get his jaw wired shut. Homer becomes addicted to medical marijuana. Homer becomes a superfunny Internet cartoon. Then a Marge plot where some company pumps sugar into every food (how ridiculous). Now really - how many sinister companies do they have now in Springfield. Way too many I guess. The only ray of light seems to be the story about Lisa who becomes a budhist but maybe they�ll even ruin this. Prove me wrong, new season, but it doesn�t sound very good. Al Jean won�t change anything.

Chris

I couldn't agree more. It used to be a whole lot more intelligent, even in its background gags and references. And it used to be more human. Nowadays, I really can care less what happens to any of the characters. They could kill off Marge or Bart and I would probably be shocked that they did it, but in the end I wouldn't really care....because the real Marge and Bart (and Homer and all the other characters for that matter), died a long time ago. The "Simpsons" that populate the show now are almost completely alien to the Simpsons of the classic years. They look about the same (albeit more vividly colored than before, and more cartoonish and rounded in their facial features than they used to be), but they're pod people inhabiting Simpsons bodies. Not the same characters.

To me, the difference between the classic Simpsons years (first four years) and the last four seasons is like the difference between classic Mad magazine and Cracked magazine.

Agree. But they have now some cartoon idiots and slapstick clowns who look and sound exactly like the real Simpsons and most of the (new?) fans don�t even notice that the Simpson family is dead and replaced with something else - something strange.

The important question is: when did the real Simpsons die? After season 2 or after season 4 or after season 10 or when? Personally, I�d say almost everything that made the show and characters unique died at the end of season 10. There are some glimpses of their old selfs in certain current episodes (e.g. at the end of HOMR) but not much of it.

The problem is that it is now a different show but still has the same name so if you go on the street and tell people "Hey, I�m a fan of the Simpsons" they�ll think you�re a fan of that weird kids show with the sex jokes and the panda rapes and the jockey elf attacks.

They should have renamed it after season 9 or at least 10 into "The Hilarious Wacky Homer Cartoon Parade with Guest Stars" to make a clear break with the classic years (to make a very very clear break with the first three years). Alas, they didn�t.

Just my opinion though.

Chris

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:20010819035426.23980.00000362@mb- they�ll think you�re a fan of that weird kids show with the sex jokes and the

And this is just too sad. People here say that Scully & Company deliberately went after the younger crowd and made the show more "kiddie-friendly." So, sex jokes, panda rapes, jockey elf attacks, the disintegration of the Simpsons family unit (by which I mean, none of the members really ever treat each other warmly as family members anymore), and Homer's completely antisocial behavior, is more kiddie-friendly?

What a weird world. I would argue that the Simpsons is still definitely NOT a kiddie show -- but now that's true more than ever. I wouldn't let my son or daughter watch it. Strangely, the early episodes have elements that are much more easy on younger viewers and much more suitable than any of these new episodes.

"Greg Jameson" wrote in message news:...

These days, the above examples ARE "Kiddie fare"--if played off in a candy coating. That's what Scully did to the show--make discusting situations seem Simpsonsly innocent--which pissed off anyone over 20--and dumbed the show down to the pre-teen audience. Look at the fox forum at www.fox.com. Every third thread on their message board has some juvinile ref. to sex.

Scully didn't ruin the show for Fox, he extended the life of the show so that the long time fans would leave and the younger crowd would come in and take our place.

As I've said before...The show isn't 'ours' anymore. It's about pleasing the kids in watered down S. Park humor, just enough to make it on Prime time, but not so offensive adults call for its end.

Jake

"Jake Lennington" wrote in message

South Park is definitely not a kids' show either. It's really sad what kids are watching these days (and it's sad that the parents let them watch it). But what are you going to do when you can go to your local mall and see Kenny and Cartman stuffed animals directly alongside Elmo and Barney? (The toy store display at my local mall has exactly that right now.) They market these *strongly* R-rated things as kids' stuff. Too bad for the kids, and for us in general.

I'm probably sounding like an old prude here, but so be it. It's the way I feel. I remember better times and better "prime times"....

I�d say most of the classic episodes were suitable for kids and adults. There are a few episodes like certain violent THOH or Cape Feare which I�d call unsuitable for younger kids but most of the other stuff was harmless.

As I said: there was more simple fun for the kids (Bart�s pranks, Homer�s stupidity) and there was stuff for the older viewers (all the intelligent references, deeper political/social satire, Lisa�s comments etc.)

You can watch "Homer vs Lisa and the 8th Commandment" and you can have fun with it as a child (though many youngster would find Lisa�s morality boring and annoying) and you can watch the show as adult and you�ll notice the symbolism and the hidden intelligence. I guess I could say that about most of the classic episodes until season 5 brought us the first change toward empty slapstick. Take "Homer goes to College" as early example. Kids find it hilarious and supersuperfunny but many of the older viewers were annoyed and angry after that Homer slapstick parade.

Today the show is partly neither suitable for adults and long-time-viewers (who consider it as stupid and as a disgrace to the past) nor for the younger kids because there are too much dirty jokes and sexual references and mean stuff. Take "Sense of Snow" - do we need such a load of dirty jokes and cruelty in a Christmas episode? Is it the same show that brought you dark stuff like "Marge Be Not Proud" at Christmas?

Besides all the dirty stuff it�s IMO now a kids show. Take old Lisa episodes: they dealt with questions like knowledge, feminism, politics, sadness etc etc. Take current Lisa episodes: ghosts and leprosy, tap dance and robot shoes, nerd sweat and slapstick etc etc.

Can they sink any lower? That�s kids stuff.

I guess (as someone already said) we�ll soon have an episode where Otto and Bart get loaded and lose the school bus and the title will be "Bart-Dude, Where�s my Bus?". Then we have reached a new low.

Chris

<snip>

I remember very well my brother telling me after sunday school (now THAT's going back a fair few years) and telling me how his class were watching The Simpsons, an episode about Homer stealing cable TV. So the teacher was actually using the episode to teach the children about the ten commandments. How good is that??!?

Neil

I consider it as pretty good. 7F13 is indeed an episode with various religious implications. There are some other episodes of that kind as well, take the great "Homer The Heretic" or "Bart Sells his Soul".

I�m no religious person but I think it�s not wrong to include such morality into the show and 7F13 is IMO an episode that�s partly very funny and entertaining and definetly not too preachy or with in-your-face morality.

It�s interesting that they used the episode for American sunday school because it contains scenes of Bart and other kids watching some porno channel on cable TV

Chris

If you're talking about me, I'm from Scotland!! lol, I never thought about that before...

Neil

"Chris Pfeiler" a �crit dans le message news: [email]...

religious

morality

because

cable

since when the simpsons is a christian ultra conservative show ?

"Reach The Sky" wrote in message news:Mgtg7.14020$[email]...

the

morality.

Since when is it an ultra liberal show? Why does it have to be either? The Simpsons was best when it strived to be real, not slap a pretense over itself.

Marge: Lisa, Bart, what did you two learn in Sunday School today? Lisa: The answers to deep theological questions. Bart: Yeah, among other things, apes can't get into heaven. Homer: What? Those cute little monkeys? That's terrible. Who told you that? Bart: Our teacher. Homer: I can understand how they wouldn't let in those wild jungle apes, but what about those really smart ones who live among us? Who roller-skate and smoke cigars?

"Neil Thomas" wrote in message news:[email]...

fun with

and

symbolism

"Greg Jameson" wrote in message news:...

Yeah, like the one in charge of NASA! "No, I don't think we'll be telling them that."

Aaron Hirshberg

On 20 Aug 2001, Chris Pfeiler wrote:

Schh! Don't say that out loud or the writers'll pick up on it!

/ Kristian

+-------------------------------------------------------+
|Kristian Ronge                                         |
|[email]    [email]             |
|(civil)                (skola)                         |

|d99, datateknik, KTH (Kungliga Tekniska H�gskolan)     |
|d99, Computer Science, Royal Institute of Technology   |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

Not "kiddie-friendly," but immature. The show is now written for people who regularly watch "Jackass" and laugh at words like "breast." Probably the same people to whom "Rat Race" is aimed. ________________________________________________________________

The Indian DVD Resource: http://www.fly.to/indiadvd

What happens when you delete the Recycle Bin?

"Gay" is not a synonym for "bad."

Remove "bination" to reply.

In 1990, i was four years old, and the simpsons were in their first season, a huge phenomenon - my dad and I had matching Bart 'Don't have a cow, man' shirts. And since then I've been a huge Simpsons fan. Sure, I am younger, but like a few other kids i know, i've been with the show from day one. Every weekday, if i get the chance, i sit down and watch at least one of the two simpson reruns on tv.

The newer stuff - i agree, there's been some downright lackluster episodes, but there's been some, IMO, pure classics. My personal fave would have to be the Pulp Fiction like story that follows the family individually during one eventful day where marge chops off homer's thumb. Behind The Laughter episode had to be one of the all-time best pure satire Simpsons episode - come on, how is Jimmy Carter breakdancing not hilarious? Then, back in December, the episode where the kids get snowed into Springfield Elementary. Those shows are as good of episodes in the 'prime' Simpsons time of seasons 1-4.

IMO, the Simpsons aren't declining, they aren't dead. I still watch it every Sunday and I can be garanteed of a few laughs each time. God bless the Simpsons!

Mike C

Pulp Fictionish? Rent Run Lola Run, that's where the premise started from.

in article [email], Michael Carpenter at [email] wrote on 8/28/01 10:45 PM:

You will probably think less of most recent episodes on second viewing.

The 22 short films episode was better.
________________________________________________________________

The Indian DVD Resource: http://www.fly.to/indiadvd

What happens when you delete the Recycle Bin?

"Gay" is not a synonym for "bad."

Remove "bination" to reply.

You people are so damn skeptical. God help us if these episodes aren't 100% prime, perfect comedy. A true Simpson fan can appreciate the humor in each episode, whether or not its the best or worst thing you've ever seen.

Mike C

ah, that's what makes it so hard to pinpoint our frustrations. no single episode is perfect to everyone, and even back in the salad days the simpsons often indulged in the very sort of humor for which we now disparage the recent episodes (pointless surreality, slapstick, homer-dumb-as-a-brick).

i think there are a lot of different types of fans. personally i wouldn't want to be the sort of fan who makes the choice to suspend all critical faculties and just blindly like anything produced by the object of my fandom. that's not fandom, that's, uh, cultism. anyhow it's clear that something ain't right about OFF in recent years, and even the episodes that have some merit (like the ones you mention above) seem to contain less of the stuff we responded to so favorably in the past.

bottom line for me, the show used to be like hanging out with a really smart stand-up comic, a comedian with a smart, dry wit who could occasionally go off and do something goofy (read: george carlin). nowadays it's like hanging out with gallagher: desperate for laughs, only pretending to be witty, and wayyyy past his prime.

Not a bad comparison. The problem with it is that Gallagher was never funny.

in article [email], Jimmy Legs at [email] wrote on 8/30/01 1:01 PM: