I know I said I wouldn't make any new posts for awhile, but I just discovered a big error in this episode and I just had to share it. No, it's not already on SNPP and as far as I know it hasn't already been discussed here.
Anyway, when Herb is studying Maggie's voice, he says "The amplitude of the sine wave is innsufficient for 'burp me'".
Here's the problem: sine waves do NOT occur in nature, and they certainly aren't produced by human babies. So either it is written such that Herb doesn't know what he's doing (unlikely, because his translator did indeed work) or the writers of the show are guilty of a large scientific blunder.
For those who have not studied physics: in sound, a sine wave is a pure tone.
I think that's an oversimplificaton, Xino. All sound can be broken into sine curves. Herb may be looking, for example, at a specific frequency of the noise, which indicates the desire to be burped. If the 10kHz sine wave is this indicator, than he could very well be talking about the amplitude of the 10kHz sine wave.
Well, I thought of all those things but I concluded that it is still wrong since once a sine wave has overtones it is no longer a sine wave. If he is studying the amplitude of a component wave, he shouldn't call it a sine.
Nothing should be called 'sine' unless it is absolutely pure, I believe.
Regarding noise: If there is a regular pattern then that pattern would not be considered "noise" but a underlying regular tone, which still would not be "sine" since it is a component of the noise.
but I suppose now I'm getting to nit-picky. :-) Sorry, but I still believe it to be a blunder.
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:26:33 -0500, "Xino Kiner" wrote:
What should he call it then? That sound line wavey thingy ? No, no. Check this out:
I believe if you break down sounds into stages you can isolate singular sine waves. And based on the amplitude of that particular sine wave within the occurance of Maggie's phrase, Herb was able to decipher that it was not at the proper amplitude thereby making the necessary adjustments of the hysterisis within the wave to make his invention work. Its perfectly simple! I had a long discussion with Herb at the annual "We Are Beyond Pathetic Geeks Who Delve Way Too Deep Into Cartoon Plots" convention last May.
He's performed a Fourier transform on it. Every function can be approximated by a combination of sine waves, and when we analyse a signal, a sound, or other wave, we perform a Fourier transform. Then we can talk about the individual waves which contribute to it, and this is what Herb Powell is doing.
Thanks for your comments, but I'm afraid I've already addressed this position since a few others here have brought it up.
A quick note to all that have responded to the original post:
If you had bothered to watch the scene before commenting on it you would see that Herb did not have the equipment to perform a Fourier analysis. All he had was a cheap oscilloscope. Also, the rest of the components for the final machine were homemade. So much for that theory.
Well, it was worth a thought. Alternatively he could have fitted it to a curve and done the integrations in his head. If you've got enough patience you only need a cheap oscilloscope
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Hey yeah, and in "Boy Scoutz n the Hood", just when Bart is saying that Itchy had rigged Scratchy into a tent using a bad method, and Lisa says "Oh Bart, cartoons don't have to be 100% accurate...." , Homer walks past the window outside! But Homer was already INSIDE! On the couch watching the cartoon with the kids!!! <GASP!>
"Uh yeah, question for Miss Bellamy. In episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succesion yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we, to beleive this is some sort of a, a magic xylophone, or something? Boy I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder."
It's always bothered me that in THOH-VI, Professor Frink indicates that the characters exist in the second dimension, yet in most scenes of the entire series, the characters move about in THREE dimensions comfortably.
Or, if you prefer:
Frink: Yes, over here, n'hey, n'hey. In episode BF12, you
were battling barbarians while riding a winged
Appaloosa, yet in the very next scene, my dear,
you're clearly atop a winged Arabian. Please do
explain it.
Lawless: Ah, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like
that, a wizard did it.
Frink: I see, all right, yes, but in episode AG4 --
Lawless: Wizard.
Frink: [under breath] Aw, for glaven out loud.
Hrm, both references were Frink-induced and from THOH... That was either unintentional, or, I guess, a wizard did it.
(Maybe a new catch phrase could be "A Wixino did it" maybe?)
YES THEY DO. Real waves in nature are modeled using Fourier Series, which are infinite sums of sin and cosin functions.
The sound waves that occur in nature can be modeled using Fourier series. Which are infinite sums of sin and cosin functions. Depending on the boundary conditions, the series may be sin or cosin only. I know this from having a BS and an MS Mechanical Engineering. We MEs use Fourier Series to solve some types of Partial Differential Equations related to Heat Transfer, and ordinary differential equations related to Mechanical Vibrations.
Remember, I'm the guy who set you all straight on the way the water flows in the toilets in the different hemispheres. When is Xino going to bring up that great moment in the history of OFF?
"Thank you Mr. Scientician." Ixnay on the Uclearnay Echticiantay.
So, as for Herb Powell, he could have been referring to one component of a Fourier sin series. One specific frequency.
1. IT'S A FRIGGIN' CARTOON! 2. Over at www.tvtome.com they nitpick over "goofs" in the Simpsons that are just not a big deal. 3. On Star Trek they travelled faster than the speed of light, sent radio messages faster than the speed of light, and, most important of all, NEVER WENT TO THE BATHROOM! It's a FRIGGIN' TV SHOW! 4. In fact, most TV characters from the 50s and 60s NEVER PERFORMED THEIR BODILY FUNCTIONS! And now, 40 years later, we are arguing about two words of dialogue in a cartoon!
When they were digging the hole to bury Jimmy Hoffa, the ground was vibrating around the hole. And the vibrations could be modeled using a Fourier Series of sin and cosin functions.
Uhh, excuse me professor, NO THEY DON'T. I said SINE WAVES, referring to simple harmonic motion. These are waves that when undergone Fourier analysis would show ONLY THE FUNDAMENTAL TONE. This is what Herb Powell mentioned. This does not occur in nature.
Yes this is true, but there is no pure sinusoidal motion in nature.
Of course. I never said they couldn't.
I am speaking of sound energy, as I stated in my original post. I never really studied mechanics so I don't know if heat energy exhibits the same behavior.
Yes, someone mentioned this, but then he should not have called it a SINE wave, rather he should have stated the frequency of the component in question. A baby crying would be a complex waveform.
You're the one get worked up about it, not me.
You're the one who started arguing. Sorry, but I invite everyone to just take it easy.
"Fendetestas" wrote in message news:cj1jpu$q10$[email]...
Professor, mechanics isn't the only discipline that has waves. I studied physics. By the way it's none of your business how old I am, besides I have already said. Now butt out.
"Fendetestas" wrote in message news:cj1lhj$1oq$[email]...
studied
have
Fine then, but that still allows that I could have studied Physics and not Mechanics. Have you ever studied Logic? I have. One branch of Physics that I have studied is Acoustics.
Sound propagation via waves in acoustics is a part of mechanics. What I meant is that the first time one encounters sine waves (or any waves at all) is in basic mechanics, when dealing with for example waves in a string or with sound.
Heat energy is not mechanics... The point behind Fourier series is that any periodical function can be represented in terms of an infinite series of sines or cosines (or both). And that means that any fucntion, periodical or not can be represented this way in an interval. By the way, as you have studied Logic, perhaps you can solve this problem:
1. Anyone who knows at least some basic physics is familiar with PDE's, the Heat equation and Fourier series.
Xino Kiner doesn't know anything about these things.
Someone who argues about things he doesn't know is a pedantic ignoramous.
Yes, I am familiar with the Fourier series. Have you read any of my posts? Do I need to draw you a picture (graphical representation) of a sine wave?
Maybe we can simply settle this by you providing me with ONE example of a naturally occurring sine wave. Better yet why don't we just drop it all together because nobody seems to understand what I'm saying, despite that it's extremely obvious.
Alright, good, constructive progress, but Jason I was looking for an example in which this occurs in nature. What natural object vibrates with such motion, such as an earthquake, the wind, a lion's vocal chords.. etc producing a musical tone. Where in nature do we see frictionless circular motion. Thank you.
Not as sound energy they do not... and even if they did, any theories as to how this energy was picked up by Herb's oscilloscope? and even if they were, why would Herb pay attention to them since he is studying Maggie?
Yes, they do! The simplest example is with, say, frictionless circular motion, where the abscissa and the ordinate trace sine curves with relation to time. Sine curves are also common results in many differential equations representing natural phenomenon. And I certainly think that a complex waveform (like human crying) should be able to be deconstructed into constituent sine waves. Any of these waves might be to what Herb was referring.
According to the Simpsons reference that got Xino into so much hot water here to begin with, Hoffa is buried underneath Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey. But one guy I used to work with says he is pretty sure that Hoffa is underneath a landfill next to Route 95 near Newark.
So You'd like to complain about the phrase "sine wave" and not the fact that the show makes it clear that babies have a seperate baby language? this phrase bothers you but not the fact that they never revisit the idea of a baby translator? Xino at least you're being clever with this trolling but it the scene made you laugh it worked. "Xino Kiner" wrote in message news:[email]...
The biggest problem is that Herb smacked Homer, and blamed him for ruining his company, when in fact he insisted that Homer take the job, and refused to listen to reports from his longtime employees about "The Homer" and what the consequences would be.
Yeah, I thought of that too, they always say that Homer ruined Herb but it seems really dumb to me that Herb wouldn't even look at the vehicle before the unveiling. Corporate thinking I guess.