you're all nuts

it is perplexing that a group as seemingly educated as you would prefer the first few seasons ....

let me refresh your memory:

"Cowabunga Dude"

"Eat my Shorts"

"Don't have a cow man"

"man this and man that"

*And don't forget this one* -

"Yo! Hey what's happening dude? I'm a guy with a rep for bein' rude. Terrorizin' people wherever I go, It's not intentional, just keepin' the flow. Fixin' test scores to get the best scores, Droppin' banana peels all over the floor, I'm the kid that made delinquency an art, Last name, Simpson; first name, Bart. I'm here today to introduce the next phase, The next step in the big Bart craze. I got a dance, real easy to do, I learned it with no rhythm and so can you! So move your body, if you got the notion, Front to back in a rock-like motion. Now that you got it, if you think you can, Do it to the music, that's the Bartman."

Characters were underdevelopped - this was the phase that the show had to go through to get its legs and artistic license. Later episodes even make fun of it. remember TOH with twilight zone bart and the merchandising....

come on people, this poetry isnt going to appreciate itself

Bite me, trollboy

im a trollman ...... doo do doo/ doo do doo im a troll

by the way, mr. instigator of insurrection.... aliases like "Lots42 bomb white house" are dangerous in these days of terrorist witchhunts. Don't make me narc on your stash, you wicked little monkey.

I retract my comment about "seemingly educated" in your case. your comeback, while technically proficient, lacks passion.

wrote in message news:[email]...

the

are to

servile,

Report me.

[email]

The only stash I have legally prescribed pills for migraines.

touche

Lots42 bomb white house wrote in message news:[email]...

hee hee.

Lee Harris is the god of perfect dark, and if you don't believe me, take it up with his mother ;)

"whippythewit" wrote in news:ZPQL9.2083$[email]:

Precisely

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 02:12:09 GMT, "whippythewit" pounded on the keyboard and ended up with:

Hey, blame Jacko for that.

Yeah, that's usually what happens in the first couple seasons of a series. Why should that make the earlier seasons any less deserving of merit? z-z-z E H z-z-z Spicey Chicken Cartel member (tinSCC) #2023 Lumber Cartel member (tinLC) #2420 #2073 alt.atheism Atheist/Agnostic list (Agnostic Atheist) The address in the header is a dummy. My real address is "cubecutter" at a place called "despammed dot com".

Regarding "Cowabunga", "Eat my Shorts", etc, the people who worked on the show back then have generally explained that the use of these so called "catch phrases" (though cowabunga itself was simply a surfer phrase) were meant mainly to sound like Bart had copied them off the tv. They weren't supposed to be clever, they weren't supposed to be funny (at least not in the sense that people thought they were supposed to be), and they certainly weren't meant to be the "catch of the show". I've read an interview somewhere with Jon Vitti from 90/91, who originally wrote "Eat my Shorts" into Bart the Genius, and he sounded downright embarrassed that people had taken the phrase as an excuse to make t-shirts.

IMO, as cliched as some of the "new episodes suck" arguments are (I agree with many of them, but it gets tiring when people simply write "worst episode ever" rather then providing any real insight), its also very cliche to write off seasons one and two for the "catch phrases", "bad animation", etc. These people are IMO only buying into the hype of back then. I've suprised more then a few people when I've said I counted more Homer episodes in season one than Bart episodes.

As for "Do the Bartman", that's again merely a bit of hype and not really part of the show. But it did provide some nice self parody from Jacko.

even if nowadays, Jacko IS a nice self-parody

he's all nuts

eeek reminds me of the weed episode when mr burns slipped out of smithers arms like an eel and splatted on the wall Jamie wrote in message news:atsmq7$l9j$[email]...

Heh, good point.

whippythewit wrote:

I guess most people who prefer the very first seasons have very good reasons (there are enough convincing reasons for such an opinion.)

[seemingly pointless catch phrases]

Let me reply in short:

First of all, such phrases were there to make the show interesting for all younger viewers who copied them. The show always had its own ways to appeal to younger *and* older viewers with the same stories.

We can consider such catch phrases as social commentary about the adaptation of TV phrases. Such phrases were meant to show Bart as media-influenced underachiever (and proud of it, man.) Plus there was another and way more complex level of storytelling in the first seasons that had nothing to do with simple catch phrases but with open concepts. Seasons 2 and 3 have IMO some of the best examples for that.

Maybe that "incompleteness" and the room for development gave them the true human feel of the first years (I know, it�s something most people don�t care about nowadays.) Middle seasons like S7 added new layers to the characters and showed new aspects of characters, but the main roots of depth and development can be found in Seasons 1 and 2 and I appreciate that when I watch episodes from the very first years.

I�d say Season 2 has more satirical spirit than all Scully seasons together.

Chris

[email] (Chris Pfeiler) wrote in message news:...

I agree with you, I think maybe the first few seasons weren't the best but there was plenty to make other people believe it was. It had a slightly different aproach to the show that could be peoples favourate aproach. Alsot here are plenty of great jokes and lines that (definitly season 2) are pure brilliant and are 100% up to simpson standard.

the seasons had their places

however, how is it that people think the jokes were funnier?

There was some good subversive classic groening but in general, it was slapstick....

i mean, how could "Grimey" be nearly as funny back then.... Homer's full character had not yet been branded into our brains.

Barry Christie wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

the

reasons

all

appeal to

adaptation of

more

do with

some of

true

care

characters and

development

episodes

together.

whippythewit wrote:

They were often funnier in a different way, funny in a way that showed the absurdity of certain aspects of society, media, politics etc in an exaggerated but also reality-based way. It is important for satire and subversion to have a reality base and to flow from solid plotlines.

Jokes can flow from a satirically exaggerated reality when the right character says the right thing in the right situation. There�s no need for forced zaniness to create fun.

So why do people think the old seasons were funnier? Many of them think it�s much funnier to see a baby who decides the TV is actually the "one she loves best" than to see some TV guy who vomits into a bucket.

I don�t agree with your opinion that all people who prefer old seasons live in the past. BTW, which seasons would you call the best?

Chris

P.S. About the songs - they�re a merchandise product and have IMO little to do with the contents of early seasons. Bart sings about his role as simple brat but actually I�d say he was a character with much more facets than today in early episodes. I like the songs, especially the Lisa songs. Sadest kid in grade number 2.

[email] (Chris Pfeiler) wrote in news:[email]:

"They were often funnier in a different way," i.e., a way that wasn't *as* funny, but which you excuse because they provided commentary.

Says you.

I'll remember that the next time I watch the Marx Brothers' "Duck Soup." Yeesh.

funny is funny. i'll laugh more if i watch an average season one episode than an average recent episode like Bart vs Lisa vs 3rd Grade, or Poppa's Got A Brand New Badge, which are far more saturated with attempted humour than than the early episodes. The humour in the earlier seasons was more character-driven and usually involved clever dialogue, something which gradually began to disappear around season 10 to make way for pointless wackiness and Family Guy-style forced kiddie satire, so now for laughs we get Tom Brokaw being sick, or Bart dancing inside a snake, or Maggie as a sniper. I don't know about you, but I don't find that kind of stuff funny, it's as simple as that. A lot of the stuff in recent episodes has been very funny, but about 3 out of every 10 jokes totally bombs, which isn't good enough. I have no hidden agenda, I just don't laugh. Besides, the Simpsons was always supposed to be more than just a comedy. It's supposed to "explore the emotional lives of cartoon characters" as Jim Brooks once said, it's supposed to have clever plot writing (which means it's not supposed to have three or four extremely thinly connected wandering plots in the one episode that all go everywhere while going nowhere), and it's supposed to be about an reasonably realistic average American family living an reasonably realistic average American lifestyle in an reasonably realistic average American town (which means no sudden whimsical trips to far-off places, no becoming a celebrity every week, no scientific discoveries involving nerd sweat, no aircraft carrier rampages by insane naval officers/music producers, no end-of-episode chases, no temporary insanity, and so on).

"Jamie" wrote in news:au09cn$jlc$[email]:

Yeah, "just" a comedy is such a bad thing to be.

True comedy doesn't need to be anything "more." "More" just detracts.

Then the show you want is "Everybody Loves Raymond."

I never said or implied that being "just" a comedy is bad. the Marx Brothers, who you have mentioned, is evidence enough to prove it. I understand your vision is obviously impaired from having your head so far up your ass, so kindly remove it and I'll type what I said again. The Simpsons was always supposed to be more than just a comedy. See, the key part of that sentence is "The Simpsons was...". Understand? The creators intended it to be more than a comedy. It is supposed to be more than a comedy. A show being a straight-up comedy is not a bad thing, but the Simpsons is not supposed to be a straight-up comedy, and its attempts to become one have been unsuccessful.

this is so inane i'm not giving it a proper reply

no, actually the show I want is pre-season 9 Simpsons.

Ever since it got funnier, there's nothing left in The Simpsons for comedy snobs like me. Why, it doesn't even cast light on the Human Condition!

"Jamie" wrote in news:au0bkt$2i7$[email]:

every word you proponents of season 1 & 2 write just adds merit to my theory that

You're all Nuts

Dennis Wilson wrote in message news:BVMM9.3047$[email]...

why is this continually put forward as a view when it is so blatantly untrue? If anything, the later seasons (even season 5 for example) were the ones which depended more on catchphrase-type humour and slapstick comedy. There was slapstick in the first two seasons but it was well used and balanced excellently with other elements such as subtle satire, character emotion, and witty dialogue. Bart was never a one-dimensional catchphrase-machine, for instance in the first finished episode Bart The Genius he is fully adorned with emotional depth and wit. The Ullman shorts were slapstick catchphrase stuff. The first two proper seasons weren't. People who claim the early seasons are all "Eat my shorts" and Homer falling down gorges should probably buy the two season DVDs and actually watch the first two seasons properly.

i would but i can go buy some cheap wine and pay to make myself sick that way

lets take the bully vs. barts army episode

ok.....

there's the dryer in the face

homer talking about code of schoolyard was quite funny

"trademark" simpsons groin strike

the extendied shot of lisa licking and icecream while bart rolls by in a can.

coughing up the hat .... hmmm seems like a plant.

the greeks knew it the carthiginians.... this is just dumb

commence saturation bombing

the only funny part was when marge asked them if they were finished playing war

Jamie wrote in message news:atvarv$4g9$[email]...

shorts

falling

whippythewit wrote:

Okay, let�s take it.

It turns a schoolyard conflict into a parable about war in general.

It has a lot of subtle commentary.

It has early examples of meta-humor.

It uses references to Patton, Full Metal Jacket, and other movies.

It refers to WWII in certain elements, the scene when a boy kisses Lisa refers to the famous Eisenstaedt photo taken on Times Square in 1945.

Lines like "I thought I was too old. I thought my time had passed. I thought I'd never hear the screams of pain, or see the look of terror in a man's eyes. Thank heaven for children"

Nelson�s loyal goons surrender and say "We were just following orders".

Herman sounds like George Bush sr.

The ending with Bart�s comment makes fun about the typical sitcom ending where actors tell people about a valuable lesson.

And yes, it�s pretty funny.

Some more? Okay, the plot sure has some weak elements and a lack of content, but we are talking about the fifth produced episode, the show still tried to find its way and 7G05 is IMO an important step. The true greatness came in Season 2.

Chris

[email] (Chris Pfeiler) wrote in news:[email]:

I'll take a funny episode over a richly detailed episode any day.

A funny episode such as...?

A funny episode such as...?

A funny episode such as...?

I apologize profusely for the triple-posting

hmmm...

where? i dont swing that way....

Parable or microcosm? it is also meant to be subtle political satire for school children target market. It provokes no thought, if that is your aim, and certainly, is, in itself not funny at all.

Such as.... it all seems pretty base to me

a the good old "meta-humour" phrase.... we havent heard enough of that.

So what.... is this funny? read life in hell from 1989-1990 then look at these first seasons and you will see exactly why the simpsons simply had to sell out for a while. Life in hell was hilarious *and* subversive. If you are looking for "comedy" in the classic sense, try shakespeare. I pissed myself laughing at twelfth night. I mean " scruple of a scruple...." it works on so many levels hahahahhahha hahahaha oh god there goes my hernia....

refers

Its just cliche after cliche, isnt it then? How is that funny....

thought

eyes.

booorrring. lowest common denominator

i like when he said that he got blue flavour squishy.

the greeks knew it, the carthiginians knew it wait a minute they were all ancient civilizations on the other side of the world.... Oh right, thats what makes it funny - because they never were in springfield. Or were they - we dont know where springfield is

where

the only funny part about that is marge asking them if they were finished playing war and offered cookies

earth to nerd missile ..... waiting for evident of this masterful subversive comedy...

• whipster

whippythewit wrote:

Your arguments would be better if you would stop calling all people with other opinions nuts and nerds. What�s your point? Is it so difficult to accept that people prefer different seasons than you?

I didn�t mention all the examples to point out how funny they are. I even agree with you that they are less funny than most stuff from the middle seasons but that was not my point.

Season 1 is an "experimental stage" that shows the development of the concept. It�s naturally that there are certain problems, thin storylines, lacks of different things etc. They turned a series of cartoon shorts and filler material into an actual 22 minutes show and you can�t expect a fully developed show after the first four episodes, it�s not possible. It�s also naturally that they make fun about the problems of early stages in later seasons.

I think you�re pretty selective when you try to "prove" how lame the first seasons were - you mention the Bart songs and catch phrases but you dismiss that such things had little to do with stories or characters. You mention some examples of (in your opinion) lame jokes, you dismiss other qualities as cheap and unfunny.

You want some evidence for the quality of first seasons - now that�s difficult. You seem to have a strong opinion that old seasons are nothing but lame and people who like them either nerds, nuts or people who live in the past. I�ve written some reviews about Season 1 and 2 episodes but I guess you�d call them unfunny nerd stuff.

There�s maybe one reason above all nerd talk why people prefer old seasons - they could relate to characters and stories in the earlier seasons, they can�t in these days.

Chris

whippythewit wrote:

subversive

Sez you...

Feh...

ah my sharp tongue has claimed another victim

seasons -

can�t

perhaps because they were vacuous and undevelopped

OK, I don't like Bart The General (I find it incredibly trite and generally uneven) so i'll list you the highlights of Bart The Genius, the first finished episode. I defy you not to laugh, or at least be amused, at this ep.

- Maggie's E=MC2 blocks
- the entire Scrabble scene
- Martin :  And a sloppy speller, too.
                The preferred spelling of `weiner' is W-<I>-<E>-N-E-R,
although E-I is an acceptable ethnic variant.
  Skinner : Good point.
- "Now I don't want you to worry, class.  These test will have no effect on
your grade.  They merely determine your future social status and financial
success.   If any."
- Bart's visualization of the test question
- Homer's signature
- "What do <we> need a psychiatrist for?  We know our kid is nuts."
- Dr. J Loren Pryor's analysis of Bart
- Dr.J    :  Well, genius, like intelligence, is usually the result of
heredity and environment.
   Homer : [stares blankly]
   Dr.J :     Although in some cases, it's a total mystery.
- "Here, let me show you how to put on a tie.  The hook goes over the top,
and these things go in there."
-  just about all the satire on schools for "geniuses"
-  Bart's paradox
-  Marge:   Homer, you're going, too.
    Homer:  But I'm not a genius!  Why should <I> suffer!?
-  Bart & Homer at the opera
-  "Har-de-har-har!"
-  Bart's grafitti from the first act roped off and tagged
-  Bart's proposal to return to school
-  "You know, you misspelled confession."
-   "I bet Einstein turned himself all sorts of colors before he invented
the light bulb."

not the best episode ever by a long way, there were the problems that would inevitably be in the very early shows - Homer still had the wrong voice, and was more of a dull sitcom dad than the lovable idiot of season 2 & beyond, Lisa wasn't developed enough although she gets about three lines in here anyway so it's unimportant, plus the animation is of course dodgy - and it's not as uproariously funny as episodes in the seasons which followed. But, it's still a lot funnier to me and a lot more interesting and appealing to watch than most stuff from seasons 10-14.

i concede

i must watch that one again

still..... people who think that season 1 & 2 are the best.....

you're all nuts

Jamie wrote in message news:au23oj$tfs$[email]...

generally

on

would

and

it's

strrrreeeetcchhh

we'll just have to agree to agree that you're all NUTS

i personally think its nostalgia

like that one stupid movie that you liked when you were 14 that you still have a copy of but wouldnt dream of paying money to see now if it hadnt been for the fact that it was that one stupid movie you liked when you were 14

i had a shirt with bart as a black guy, flattop, oversized "public enemy" clock as necklace. I break it out and wear it around town when ever CBG and i go to the star trek conventions.

chris is getting maaadd chris is getting maaadd0

Chris Pfeiler wrote in message news:[email]...

the

reasons

appeal to

adaptation of

with

of

true

care

and

development

episodes

together.

for some reason, ET comes to mind when you say that.

i pity the fool who dont phone home Weebil28 wrote in message news:[email]...

been

I LOVE the first two seasons, and think they're at least ten times better then seasons 9-14. And when did I start watching it? 2000. That's right, 2000. I always got the indication that Simpsons was just another lowbrow "Beavis and Butthead" type show, thus I never watched it til then. Now I love the first 8 seasons, and like seasons 9-14 a lot less for precisely the reason I almost never watched: I find it lowbrow and unfunny.

UnderdunkT wrote:

I think it�s often a prejudice that nostalgia is the only reason why people like first seasons. There are 15 year old people who were way too young back then to remember episodes in a nostalgian way but who nevertheless prefer the older seasons for quality reasons. There are people who never before watched The Simpsons, often for the reasons you said (they thought it�s just another lowbrow comedy cartoon) but who start to like the show when they watch older episodes and say "I�d never thought the Simpsons are like that.". I�m not even talking about S1 or S2, you can show such people a S3 or S4 or even S7 episode and they love it. There are other examples of non-nostalgian preference for older seasons.

I�d say what counts is not how funny a season is or how perfect the animation is, what counts is how people feel when they watch episodes. Well, it�s an old-fashioned opinion.

Chris

Maybe thats my problem. I was watching from the very beginning and i've seen all of the first few seasons episodes so many times that i prefer the mid season shows simply because i can't recite the dialogue by memory.

Hi, Poot. Who is your favorite non-existant Simpsons character?