"At the request of the Swiss government, an ethics panel has weighed in on the "dignity" of plants and opined that the arbitrary killing of flora is morally wrong. This is no hoax. The concept of what could be called "plant rights" is being seriously debated."
Source:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/065njdoe.asp?pg=1
When veganism is murder, what's left to eat?
Swiss chocolate? Hang on, that's got milk in it..
Paul
On May 6, 2:38 am, "Paul Bartram" <p.bartram AT OR NEAR mysoul.com.au> wrote:
Don't forget the chocoloate bunny rabbits! http://www.snpp.com/episodes/8F09.html
Mr. Museum
Well, milking a cow isn't killing/eating a cow as such...
True, but how many cows die of old age?
Paul
On May 6, 11:02 pm, "Paul Bartram" <p.bartram AT OR NEAR mysoul.com.au> wrote:
Old cows go to Bovine University.
LOL... how good is that episode? :)
It ALWAYS makes me want to cook and eat lamb chops. I've eaten more lamb chops than you would believe while watching my tape of 3F03. My secret ingredient is seasoned salt (if Marge was using seasoned salt, that would explain why that batch was the best yet).
Yeah, I know. But just saying, is all. This is a subject that can get very convoluted, very quickly... and I don't have the motivation to go through it all again :) Suffice to say I care a *lot* about what I eat and drink, I drink only raw milk (unpasteurised/homogonised) for example.
According to PeTA and their ilk, it's SLAVERY!
Yeah, well by definition, it is... for most dairy herds anyway. Its just a question of whether one acknowledges it and finds it acceptable or not.
and on that note... i feel if i don't want it done to me.. why the fuck would an animal accept it?
and the whole deal is.. it's mass production and processed in some way.. chemicals...
i end up getting gerd like in many cases... over the years i just stopped animal digestion all together.
folks say that's boring... to eat vegan... (i only eat veggies,fruits... steamed or raw.... maybe something processed if it's not got any biproduct even watered down to nothing animal in it....) but boring i can sleep without pain... move... exercise blah blah all sorts of things and feel great.
if i can't take it.. how can a cow take all that pumping and injecting of hormones and foods to intake that are to make them the super menace of production!
nah... it's not good for them and it's not good for us....
i see so many bloated unhappy bodies out there... sometimes they dissapear.. (death) and sometimes they sweat when they think and always i hear them breathing a mile away... they're not happy either but they keep stuffing it into their bodies.
like the fois ducks... they're stuffed til they die, panting, inable to even move their heads... so why should i eat their liver when it killed them and mine's questionable also?
so on.
"Je�us" wrote in message news:fvtjq4$fpf$[email]...
I have long thrown back into the faces of those who proclaim things like "nothing died to go onto our Thanksgiving table" really, what about all those plants? They were living before you or your agents murdered them for your consumption.
Nature's obviously designed humans (or we have evolved over the centuries) to be omnivores and I prefer not to tinker with Mother Nature.
"Tony Harding" wrote
Not to mention the tree that died in order to *make* the table...
"He was a scrawny calf, who looked rather woozy No one suspected he was packing an Uzi..." ~Cows with Guns, Dana Lyons / Dr. Demento
Paul
"Paul Bartram" <p.bartram AT OR NEAR mysoul.com.au> wrote
"He mooed 'We must fight, escape or we'll die' "Cows gathered around, cause the steaks were so high"
Absolutely, hadn't even thought of that!
A la "Bambo" - "This time the animals are going to win"
as a vegan.. almost a dire hard one...
even i think PETA is full of shit.
"Armillaria caligata" wrote in message news:[email]...
According to PeTA and their ilk, it's SLAVERY!
Yeah, so? PETA says a lot of things, mostly whacky. Personally I cannot see how a non human animal can have rights --- will they be voting next? Or busing the white cows into black cows' neighborhoods?
In article ,
Read "The Omnivore's Dilemma". There is an interesting discussion of that in there. The book is basically a natural history of several dinners that the author ate, where he traced everything on the table back to its origins. It is quite fascinating to see where our food comes from.
There's an interesting section where, as he eats a nice steak dinner in a top restaurant, he's reading a book by one of the leading pro-animal rights philosophers, and it is causing him some problems with that meal. He summarizes that arguments from the philosopher, and they are pretty good.
The thing that gives the most difficulty is that if you try to pin down a good reason *why* animals should not have rights, you either end up with reasons that apply to narrowly (so that, say, babies and retarded humans would not have rights), or you end up with arguments that sound uncomfortably like the arguments that were used to justify things like keeping blacks as slaves, or committing genocide on Jews.
The good news for those of us who want to eat the tasty critters, without having to end up sounding like slave owners or nazis, or conceding that babies and retarded humans should have no rights, is that what these pro-rights arguments argue for is that animals should have the right to be free of human-inflicted suffering.
Our food animals are mostly animals that in nature depend on being preyed upon for the health of the species. That is, without predators, their herds would become unhealthy and overpopulated, and then die. So, there is no ethics problem with humans taking the role of the predators. When we kill a cow to eat it, that might be bad for that cow, but it is a good thing for Cowkind. So, as long as we are humane in *how* we do our predation, we are in the clear ethically. It is quite doable to raise and slaughter animals in a way that does not inflict suffering on them.
As opposed to food food?
Then let natural predators maintain the balance "in nature" .. 90% of N. American native predator species have been eliminated since H. Sapiens arrived.
"Humans taking the role of the predators" is no result of any human genotype.
There is no "cowkind." Cows are domesticated hybrids. Killing genetically modified/captive cows/artificially inseminated does nothing for the cow's gene pool, much less the predator-role-playing humans, trying to ingest it after trying to partially reenact an ice age ritual.
Let the US gov know about your "doable to raise and slaughter animals" plan - WITHOUT government subsidies, high ecological impact & widespread diseases (gout, hemorrhoids, cancer, acne, gallstones, etc) resulting from the compromised diet.
Still foraging while hunting for a reason to hunt, Chris
crisology wrote:
I call bullshit.
[email] wrote:
Agreed, politicians and evangelists seem to be thriving there.
Give research a chance and try to refute before you finish casting your votes. I provided falsifiable numbers so it's fair game. I cannot find the first & second order predation or overkill hypothesis sites I bookmarked on my old pc to provide a reference for the "90%" number, just similar sites with similar stats. In context, the references below support the overall message. Keep in mind that native predators are more directly in competition w/man so they have been reduced more than herbivores. And animals in Africa are assumed to have adapted to some degree w/early human hunting before man entered N. America.
"Large Mammals Missing from 80 Percent of their Range due to Human Pressure December 2007. Researchers have realised that less than 21 percent of the earth’s terrestrial surface still contains all of the large mammals it once held. The discovery highlights human impacts on biodiversity as well as the need for better protection. Results of the study are published in the latest Journal of Mammalogy."
http://whyfiles.org/143giant_animal/2.html "humans who strode across the temporarily dry Bering straits sometime before 12,000 years ago, and, within 2,000 years, reached the tip of South America. During roughly the same period, 73 percent of large herbivore species apparently went extinct in North America."
"Lion populations have fallen by almost 90% in the past 20 years" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3119434.stm
"CNN's Kyra Phillips reports (May 14) (CNN) -- A new global study concludes that 90 percent of all large fishes have disappeared from the world's oceans in the past half century, the devastating result of industrial fishing.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/Extinctions_Africa_Austrailia_NAmerica_Madagascar.gif
http://www.whole-systems.org/extinctions.html
Welcome to the third wave of the Pleistocene-Holocene Extinction Event between natural catastrophes (the ice age is over).
Deprogrammed, detoxing, deglaciating, post ice age, Chris
"crisology" wrote
Is he any relation to H.Simpson?
Mmmm, native species...
Paul
On Jun 6, 1:00 am, "Paul Bartram" <p.bartram AT OR NEAR mysoul.com.au> wrote:
I'm unrelated to H. Simpson or Homo corpus.
Frugivorously, Chris
On Mon, 5 May 2008 21:28:43 -0700 (PDT), [email] wrote:
When plants learn how to pull a trigger, then I'll worry.
Animals are working on it.
http://attack.igorilla.com/ http://www.snpp.com/episodes/AABF12
Mr. Museum
So we're good with meat & seafood, then? ;)
In article , [email] wrote:
You left off the most disturbing part:
A few years ago the Swiss added to their national constitution a provision requiring "account to be taken of the dignity of creation when handling animals, plants and other organisms." No one knew exactly what it meant, so they asked the Swiss Federal Ethics Committee on Non-Human Biotechnology to figure it out. The resulting report, "The Dignity of Living Beings with Regard to Plants," is enough to short circuit the brain.
So...they amend their Constitution *first* and THEN they get around to trying to figure out what the amendment means?
Yes, I know we have similar confusion over some parts of the US Constitution, but in our case it is a matter of culture and language changing over a couple centuries, so we are unclear on meaning. But at least the people who wrote the amendments knew what they meant. It sounds like the Swiss didn't even go that far, and just put effectively gibberish into their Constitution!
The report on plant dignity is available online, and it is in English:
<http://www.ekah.admin.ch/uploads/media/e-Broschure-Wurde-Pflanze-2008.pdf>