Thoughts about Classic Simpsons

Classic Simpsons episodes demonstrate an interesting dichotomy: they're both idyllic and satiric about our world.

"You can always depend on the kindness of strangers" from 8F18 is an example. A really nice concept of a perfect world. Then again, if we read it in a sarcastic light, it's very funny and satiric. Either way we take it, we realise "you can always depend on the kindness of strangers" is a distortion of the truth. The awareness that this statement isn't really true is the brunt of introspection and satire.

Classic Simpsons weren't just a cartoon in a sense that they were a bunch of colored drawings. The Simpsons characatured life by exaggerating the features of it... in many ways, a "cartoon of life" is the perfect metaphor for Classic Simpsons. With exaggeration, you have stronger--as WELL AS funnier characters. Both the kind as well as the sarcastic elements are exaggerated. That's because they accurately depict life... kindness, which is the ideal... and sarcastic, which are the tongue-in-cheek observations about problems in our world. Just as a characature of Jimmy Carter would be more recognizable and humorous than a straight drawing, so were The Classic Simpsons as a depiction of reality.

In past posts, I've talked about the two main flavors of Classic Simpsons episodes--those with serious themes, and those with sarcastic themes. Some recent posts lament the drop in The Simpsons quality, due to what boils down to a lack of "kindness" in the episodes. IMO this ignores the dichotomy of Classic Simpsons. All discriminating fans agree that The Simpsons are NOT the idyllic family. Much has been discussed about how realistic O.F.F. are in comparison to The Huxtables, The Cleavers, and The Nelsons. Fans say the other shows glossed over reality in favor of an idyllic solution to every problem in every episode.

Fine. We want the Simpsons to remain "realistic", yet the same people want Homer to act in a continually idyllic way. We want "Kind-Ass" Homer, and that is as unrealistic as any walking dolphins, or other car-wrecking fish falling from space. So; how do "real" families act? How are real American men, and women, and bartenders, and school principals? We must simply look at ourselves. Look at reality. If we are to fully appreciate what a satire of American society means, we must accept the good and the bad. We must appreciate both flavors of Simpsons episodes.

We have to let go of the idea that this little group of characters are actual people in their own little world, and realise that they are us. Each character represents many, many different people. Barney Gumble is (well... WAS) many different alcoholics in one. Homer isn't the perfect man, which means he will lose his temper and mistreat people at times. We have to understand that. This allows a broad audience to identify with the characters, AS LONG AS THEY REMAIN BASED IN REALITY.

The Simpsons has largely lost its frame of reference. What is today's show's main problem? There's too little connection with reality. IMO Mike Scully didn't ever really understand, or at least care about, the concept of the Simpsons... which was "Exaggerated America". Aiming the show at youngsters, he added many fantastic elements as well as upped the physical humor. 4-year olds don't have a lot of real-world experience, and would probably assimilate fantasy and magic, flying colors pretty well.

More sophisticated humor, as well as insightfully sharp drama, needs frames of reference. A 60-mph train slams into a car without knocking it silly, and pushes it smoothly down the tracks for hours on end. That is a fantastic element, not a realistic element. The show disconnects with viewers at that point, and it becomes a spectacle of the absurd.

...

About 4F19...

"Homer's Enemy" was seminal. Although the episode itself had no real blockbuster jokes and the story plodded, it was the apex of the messages that every episode taught up to that point:

"You're what's wrong with America, Simpson. You coast through life, doing as little..."

Everyone remembers Grimey's rant. It's the pinnacle of the episode. In this one scene, Frank Grimes--a transplant from unexaggerated America--crystallises the messages of social satire from every episode before it. Homer is the exaggerated American male... he coasts through life, doing little work, getting huge pay, and getting rewarded with a great family. (That's the idyllic side I talked about. It's why people say The Simpsons, truly, are a great family) But remember the sarcastic, satiric side. It's a criticism of American life. WE are THEY. We have things to FIX about ourselves. Why does the economy allow slackoffs to buy their own houses, declare bankruptcy, and shirk all responsibilities? These slackoffs aren't OTHER people... they are us (little bits and pieces of us) through and through. Maybe we should remember this the next time we wish to take a relaxed attitude toward work and watch the baseball match.

Throughout The Simpsons canon, we see similar sarcastic/satiric instances. Many of us term these as jokes, and we'd ideally like to have them--as long as they're secondary to a strong, emotional story. (I say this is just as "fantasy" as any magic robot. It's not real.) These pieces of social satire are supposed to make us laugh, but they're supposed to raise our awareness about ourselves and our world, too. They're just as inseparable from Classic Simpsons as blood is from the body, since they are just natural by-products of exaggerating what's real about us. What's fun is that you can't exaggerate too much. (Read Mel Helitzer's book "Comedy Writing Secrets" as well as John Vorhaus' "The Comic Toolbox." These books also discuss the need for a "frame of reference"). This means Homer can be exaggeratedly kind, and inept in the same episode. It still works--as long as everything is based in reality.

Fantastic (meaning "from fantasy") elements added to the show make it less like reality, and thus less recognizable. The show stops becoming satire, and it becomes fantasy. Floating, talking brains _work_ on shows with fantasy set ups. But hood (bonnet) smashing sturgeons from space don't work in TV shows depicting life. What was the problem with "Behind The Laughter", for example? It had many good jokes. But, it veered from reality into fantasy. There's no melodramatic photographs smashing to the floor, or calendar-popping Jack-in-the-boxes on "Behind the Laughter"... nor anything like that in any BTL episode. The writers added, then made fun of these things--when nothing like that even happens on Behind the Laughter. The frame of reference was clouded a bit, and the episode lost focus. It wasn't as sharp a parody as it could have been, due to the fantastic elements.

I _do_ like the kindness in the episodes, and touching insights and idyllic thoughts about what we could do for each other. I like seeing these in The Simpsons, because it balances the mix. But, IMO if you're looking for a steady diet of that--you're looking for an unrealistic show. This show can go back to its glory if it just goes back to exaggerating our lives. It's that simple. I say leave the swarming, magic robots to the other show... and go back to something based more in reality for The Simpsons.

"The Rack" wrote in message news:xq1b7.408$[email]...

anything

"Behind the Music", rather.

I agree. A Homer who is only friendly and kind to people wouldn�t be the right Homer and pretty unrealistic as character. But his modern flat "cartoon idiot" character is IMO even more unrealistic and I can�t identify myself with a man who isn�t able to say one logical sentence or who doesn�t care for anyone else than himself. It�s not Homer either.

Some people say the Homer of the early seasons was always a kind and friendly man but that�s IMO not true. He was always (except some season 1 episodes) a kind of jerkass and a rude man but in the past it was just one facet of his deeper character. Take 7F19 "Lisa�s Substitute" (I always come back to my favourite episode :-)): Homer is a kind and friendly but somewhat inarticulate father and real person at the end and you see or you feel that he is serious about what he says to Lisa. On the other hand, in the very same episode he�s pretty rude to the woman in the museum and that�s just another facet of the deeper character he had back then. There�s a lot of truth about him in what he says to Lisa at the end of 7F19.

In modern episodes rudeness and annoying behaviour become the only elements of his behaviour, the only kind of behaviour he is able to have in his stupidity. He�s no longer really able to have a deeper and "real" character or to communicate with his kids or wife in the way he did back in older seasons. Always angry for no apparent reason, always shouting, always pushing and kicking people around - that was his behaviour in many many episodes in the seasons 10 and 11 and partly even in 12. Homer always was a somehow rude person who sometimes lost his temper and mistreated people (as you said) but he was never or very rarely intentionally mean and evil in earlier seasons.

Homer was a big child and like all children he had a tendency to talk without thinking and thus saying rude and even offensive things to people. Not because he was mean and a jerkass but because he was too "innocent" to think about the consequences so I�d say the true reason for his child-like innocence in older seasons was IMO not that he was a truly good and kind man (he never was) but that he wasn�t aware of being rude.

On the other hand, I�d say he was on the wrong way already in season 5 (take superstupid and weird/mean Homer in "Goes to College" or "Boy Scoutz in the Hood" or "Homer the Vigilante") but they made him a more real person and father during seasons 6 - 8 while real jerkass was back in season 9 with episodes such as "Bart Star" which is an episode where even the snpp capsulse calls him "Homer the asshole" and they�re unfortunately pretty right. Even his behaviour in a few season 2 episodes such as "Dead Putting Society" went somehow in the wrong direction because he was angry without any focus and rude just for the sake of rudeness there and not only to Flanders but to all people including his family. A first season 2 trace of jerkass things to come.

If someone is sucessful in translating my fanscripts (someone from the snpp mailinglist already tries it) I�ll post my episode "The Name of the Lisa" which deals seriously with the various facets of Homer�s behaviour and with the question why he does what he does.

I absolutely agree. Too little connection with reality, the loss of balance between seriousness and fun (the descent from a real life "drama" into a stereotypical cartoon sitcom) and the loss of three-dimensional characters are IMO the main problems. The other question is if we can really blame only Mike Scully or if the descent is a product of various influences.

That is the good and meaningful and satirical side of 4F19 while the laughter at the end is IMO the bad and meaningless sarcastic side and that�s what spoils the episode for me. There is no real balance between kindness and sarcasm. If Frank would have been hurt or fired or even fired and a poor hobo at the end and Homer would be the "happy" winner the message of the episode - you�re right about the message - would have been clear. Letting Frank die and moreover letting everybody laugh at his funeral is an unnecessary cruel end that does nothing for the plot or the satirical message. IMO of course. I�m not Ondre so I�d never give a grade F to such a well written episode but the end spoils it somehow.

I guess you mean "Futurama" with "other show". Just an example to compare both: I guess you all know the Futurama episode where they meet the mermaids in the lost city of Atlanta. It�s a nice and funny episode and I enjoyed it as much as I can enjoy that wacky show and the complete unrealistness of the plot never bothered me. If there are mermaids in the year 3000 - all right. So it be. No problem.

On the other hand, I hated the scene in "Beyond Blunderdome" when OFF tries that electric car and they dive under water and meet mermaids there. It�s a senseless and useless visual gag and it destroys the reliability of the exaggerated but somehow "real" world of the Simpsons. Mermaids in Futurama are no problem but I don�t want to see such outlandish crap in a show that defined cartoon satire about real life.

Chris

good points all around. the writers these days do seem to be coming up with gags, saying "this will be funny" rather than asking "does it work?" (and even when they say 'this will be funny' they're rarely right). it takes a page formthe adam sandler/chris farley brand of comedy that you can get a laugh, eventually, if you act nuts long enough. not to say those guys haven't created a couple 'true' laughs in their day, but there's a palpable difference between catching a sly joke like the 'citizen kane' ref when homer is bored at the theatre in 'streetcar named marge', and the dubious laugh associated with 'chew through my ball sack'.

i am reminded of something berke breathed wrote about why he was halting his brilliant comic strip 'bloom county'. among other reasons, he cited the sneaking sensation that his comic strip was, more and more, turning towards self-referential comedy, as the characters had been around so long that they had basically created their own little insular world. breathed never liked comics that did that (which is most of em); his comic, not unlike 'doonsebury', had been conceived as an editorial on not only politics but all of the human condition, especially that of the united states. breathed hated the idea his comic would become just another 'hi & lois' or (gah) 'family circus'. so he quit Bloom County and fiddled with Outland for a while, a strip that was explicitly roote din a fantasy world. But even making this change apparently didn't keep him from scrapping the whole enterprise soon after.

this again is evidence of how the lack of this elusive 'frame of reference' can really mess up a show (or comic strip). for breathed, it was when the strip become too involved with its own imagined goings-on, instead of commenting on the world at large. i'm not sure if the simpsons were meant to be pitched at that same level, but the point is the same.

[email] (Jimmy Legs) wrote in message news:...

Yeah, the same thing happened to The Smurfs.

On 7 Aug 2001, Scot wrote:

And the Care Bears.

/ Kristian

+-------------------------------------------------------+
|Kristian Ronge                                         |
|[email]    [email]             |
|(civil)                (skola)                         |

|d99, datateknik, KTH (Kungliga Tekniska H�gskolan)     |
|d99, Computer Science, Royal Institute of Technology   |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

"Jimmy Legs" wrote in message news:[email]...

I'm fascinated by this. I'm (of course) a huge Bloom County fan. Bloom County's absence by 1990 is what sent me toward The Simpsons. I can't help but believe there's at least <some> influence on The Simpsons and Matt Groening from Bloom County... they were such a similar style; characters you really cared about emotionally, and a cartoon that satirized America magnificently. I'd love to ask Matt and some of the earlier writers about any connections to Berke Breathed's (and even Garry Trudeau's) stuff. Strangely parallel is "Outland" to "Futurama", as well... hmmm...

Yeah... Very good insight. That seems like what's happening to The Simpsons, all right. Everything is becoming self-referential. CBG's latest appearances are the best evidence of that. I absolutely love the Simpsons--but, nothing will outdo Bloom County. Breathed probably made the right decision to end the strip when he did... although we all grieved. It's too bad he couldn't give a TV version of Bloom County a shot... or something with new characters. The guy is a freakin' genius--and he's probably the funniest man on Earth (apologies to Mr. Groening). (IMO of course :)

but the

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

right

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his

Now I can agree with that. :)

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serious

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the

what he

elements of

stupidity.

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5F23 may have been the point where Homer is a jerkass for no apparent reason... ironically, saying "Outta my way, jerkass". I really liked the jokes and even the plot of 5F23, but that characterization of Homer was really over-the-top.

without

because

the

This is very true.

but

This is a big lesson to learn in life. Sometimes, the jerkiest people aren't aware of how jerky they are. You can be an (forgive my French :) "asshole" and not even realize it. Many people may have felt I was a jerk for a part of my life, until I learned the adage "It's not all about you; it's all about others".

(take

the

father

such

Homer was pretty irrational and stupid in 1F02, but I can't bring myself to call that a bad episode. It was just too funny. His irrational hatred of the atypically nice Dean may have been bad, though.

Society" went somehow in

for the

Well, I liked "Dead Putting Society". Homer was feeling inferior not only to Flanders, but as a human being. "The message was loud and clear. Our family stinks." I can see what he means. Flanders was almost suffocatingly nice, if that makes sense :)

first season 2 trace of

But see, that's that facet of his character in good proportion. It ends kind of silly, with Homer having to cut the grass in a dress... but IMO it's not mean. Flanders has a good attitude about it.

snpp mailinglist already tries

the various facets of

show's

balance

are

Mike

We each have an opinion on that, but the truth may never be known. It's moot with Al Jean taking over, anyway.

his

aughter

spoils

Well, the ending cranks up the sarcasm to "earsplitting levels" as if it were a sound, to drive the point home. The message ends up being very tongue-in-cheek... and Grimey's message goes by the wayside, just like it probably will in real life. Nobody is going to stop being a lazy worker, or stop coasting through life so easily after watching the episode. People will just want to change the channel/subject. It's easier to laugh.

the end

right

does

It's just meant to ironically belittle the message of the episode. All those years of satirizing American society will go for naught; the message will die, as Frank Grimes did, and Americans will gladly change the channel for some happier fare. They don't/won't understand criticism/satire. Society will keep coddling slackers. Notice how no one (not even Mr. Burns) could sympathize in the least with Grimey's criticisms of Homer. That's because in the satiric world of The Simpsons, he's normal. In ours... as Grimey says... "...he'd be dead by now."

but the end spoils

It may have been too strong, but IMO there was a point behind it.

Yes.

where they meet the

I think I remember seeing clips of that in the trailers. I don't really sit down to watch Futurama... not since the first 3 episodes of Season 1.

wacky show and the

mermaids in the year 3000 - all

tries

a

are

defined

I pretty much feel the same, but since not many folks may experience trips under the ocean... they may be "fished in" (pardon the pun) and believe mermaids might exist from this scene. Some jokes on the Simpsons seem aimed at fooling people... "There's the cane from Citizen Kane". (Of course, Lisa ruined the line by saying. "Wait a minute. There was no cane in Citizen Kane.") I don't think the smarter Simpsons fan will believe mermaids exist, but jokes like that may fool an idiot who's never been in the ocean. The problem with this joke is that only the dumbest of viewers could be fooled by something like mermaids on a supposedly realistic show. The same goes for sturgeons falling from space. A joke like the mermaid joke seems dependent on a contingency of dumber fans for it to work. Shows you at what audience Scully was aiming, right?

I consider 1F02 as one of the worst episodes from season 5. There is nothing like a real plot. Homer is just flat and crazy - giggling, chasing bees and squirrels, walking around glowing and radioactive, almost burning down the house, his irrational hatred of the dean etc etc . It�s for me one of the first examples where I can really see that something goes wrong with the show. It was the overly wacky season 5 style which was in many episodes not very different from the current style.

Other season 5 episodes I don�t like are the already mentioned 1F06 (Homer�s behaviour is very very annoying there) and 1F09 and also the emotionally very cold 1F16 and I guess many oldschoolers have problems with these episodes that turned the family in flat cartoon drawings and the Simpsons universe into a kind of CBG�s bizarro world.

It�s difficult to say when Homer turned from big child (rude but innocent) to annoying and intentional jerkass but I�d say we saw the latter a little too often already in season 5. Bad behaviour for no reason, unfocused anger and even hatred and a vocabulary that started to contain terms like "outta my way", "sucker", "loser" and "idiot" way too often.

After all the wacky adventures in season 5 it was better in seasons 6 and especially 7 and they came back to an almost classic show that was more grounded in reality and to a more classic and innocent and normal Homer who still was impulsive and rude to people.

Another good example besides 7F19 is 3F06 "Mother Simpson". Homer is a real character there and I love the great emotional ending that gave him more depth than many other episodes. On the other hand, he�s again very very rude to the man in the record office and he even freaks out on the graveyard ("Damn you, Walt Withman...") but these are facets of his character and he remains a "real" and believable being in such episodes.

I�m no Futurama fan either, it already started to wacky for my taste It�s good if you want to laugh about something (and the jokes are clearly better than in most current OFF episodes) but it�s pretty weak if you want something to think about. I watch it as wacky fun show and thus I don�t mind mermaids and outlandish stuff. It belongs to the show and was always part of it from the beginning on.

There is IMO no or very little identification with the characters and their universe and thus Futurama fails. On the other hand, I just watched "Luck of The Fryrish" which is a nice and emotional episode with a good ending. Maybe there�s hope for Futurama but the rest of its season 3 seems to be overly wacky and with lots of slapstick.

Right. Sad but true.

Chris

"Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...

to

the

nothing

and

first

It was a bit silly, but I never really thought of it as bad. I can see your connection between it and the recent seasons' balls-to-the-wall zanyness, even in episodes I like such as "Hello Gutter, Hello Fadder". The intelligence of the show was still there, though, in Season 5. "There's no nuclear material in the truck!", which melts down anyway. The satirical touches involving toxic radiation were handled brilliantly, as they were in 9F10 by the same Conan O'Brien--with Burns/Smithers stuffing the barrels into the mutant tree. In Seasons 10-11 especially, the brains of the show went missing as well... so all that was left was the bouncing-off-the-walls sillyness and truly cartoonish plots.

different

The current style being lower on the order of both intelligence and heart.

(Homer�s

Washing his socks with the drinking water... I thought it was funny, though. He's at his breaking point, certainly... ...also "I stole it from that Borgnine guy..."

oldschoolers have problems

the Simpsons universe into

I thought 1F09 very intelligent and funny, and 1F16 was well written and funny as well. The sharp social satire didn't lack there, but the episodes were lighter in mood and didn't provide much emotional connection.... I guess. I could like those eps when they were new, since at least the brains of the show were still intact.

to

too

and

way",

I'd have to think of specific examples.

This brings up another point... who's really to say what The Simpsons should or should not be? It has evolved throughout the years through many different formulations, but these posts always come back to what we'd prefer to see--our opinions. We'd like to think the show should have stayed loyal to its "original vision", but who are/were we to guide it anyway? Our individual interpretations of Matt Groening's "original vision" is the only filter we see the current show through, and thus we can easily pick out what "went wrong".

It's tough to speculate-- but maybe there is some vision for some future TV show that would be better than even the best Simpsons episodes. We may put too much value on some guy's "original vision" to remain objective. We're surely just trying to figure out why we don't enjoy the show as much, anymore, but at the risk of becoming close-minded.

who

I thought Season 6 was where the show started to become directionless. It was the beginning of the "let's put the Simpsons in some fabulous new setting" era, and "let's have the Simpsons try something new". 2F05, 2F13, 2F14, 2F15, and 2F21 certainly weren't BAD episodes. In fact, I'd say at least 2F15 & 2F21 were "funny classics". But they seemed like attempts to inject the show and characters with ideas and situations that were only tangentially interesting. Hockey. Trips to foreign countries. New jobs. New hobbies. New timelines. Before Season 6, most every episode had a sort of family dynamic to it. Season 6 started to leave The Simpsons, as a family unit, behind a bit. (This idea isn't as articulate as I'd like to present it; more thought on the subject will help)

Of course, I've already made known my complete disagreement with Smithers' character/actions in 2F16. He said "no" to Mr. Burns. That's like the having the Mississippi River run upstream, or making a good Pauly Shore movie. It just doesn't/didn't work. For Smithers to retain his character integrity, he had to agree with Burns' actions no matter the consequence... forever. He'd once been willing to kill for Burns, when asked to help him win a million-dollar bet (8F13). Aiding Burns with his sunblocker should have been a no-brainer.

For this reason, I say the show derailed a bit in Season 6... and it never fully recovered. There have been many, many good episodes since--but the show seemed to forever lose its concept in that year.

real

depth

Great episode.

office and he even freaks

his character and he

Well, I for one liked the Walt Whitman thing. I can't say anything bad about it. It may be just because Homer is real in that episode--just like you said. "Man loses pants, life". Funny, too.

their

I once said that same thing to Eric Sansoni, and he flipped his wig. IMO it is, and it will always be, a fantasy show based on ideas about the future. There's little realism there.

and emotional episode with

Is that the one where Fry plays the magic flute, and let's the one-eyed girl know how he feels about her? I walked in during that scene, and it seemed pretty good--actually.

In article , "The Rack" writes:

Nope, that's "Parasites Lost". Another great ep.

"Jeremy B" wrote in message news:[email]...

Rack"

girl

Well, there was a glimmer of humanity there, anyway. I'm finding I really like emotional stuff, after all.