Maybe it�s me but I�m not very happy about what Al Jean said about upcoming plotlines for season 13. People thought he would bring emotionality and more family-related stories back to the show but what he said sounds more like the usual wacky "cold" stuff and Homer, Homer and almost nothing but Homer.
I hope the new season proves me wrong but until then I remain very sceptical and consider myself a fan of the show "The Simpsons" that reached its peak already in the second season and ended somewhere around 1998 or early 1999.
No offense, but I watch the Simpsons for the shear comedic value. Full House is the show you need to watch it you want family-oriented programming and emotional plot-lines. That being said....bring on more Homur....D'OH!....Homer!!! (Everyone's entitled to their own opinions though...this is just mine!)
Well, maybe I�m wrong but I guess you haven�t watched the show from the very beginning on. To me, comedy was never the true reason why I watched the show, the true reason and greatness were always the things behind the comedy and that were in the past emotionality and meaning and intelligence.
Full House is one of the sappiest sitcoms ever so I�d never watch it and I think you can�t compare a great classic Simpsons episode with a Full House episode.
Whatever, in the past the Simpson writers were able to satisfy both, the fans of emotional plots and the fans of funny plots and thus we had sometimes more serious episodes and sometimes more funny episodes so everyone was happy one week or another. Today they make episodes only for the fun-lovers and that�s IMO not right.
And no offense either but too much Homer just plain sucks, especially when he behaves like a crazy madman.
When I read what Al Jean says about all the upcoming plotlines with Homer making this crazy stuff and Homer making that crazy stuff it seems to me that they continue with all the bad things the Scully era had established and at least I�m not happy about it.
I'm going to interject a "*BZZZT* sorry, try again" right there...
very
show,
that
Let's not denigrade the comedy, though. The Simpsons in especially Seasons 1-5 was one of the most intelligent comedies around. The jokes were very satiric, tongue-in-cheek, and the show exhibited a sharp view of America. Not since Monty Python had a TV comedy been so right-on-the-money, and intelligent to boot. There was literally _nothing_ like the show, because of both the level of the humor AND the "reality of emotion"--despite there being no "literal" reality about The Simpsons' world (four digits on a hand, huge overbites, and yellow skin having been there from the beginning).
Exactly. That's a no-brainer :)
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The problem is, the _quality_ of the humor has been on a slow-dive for about 5 years. A sampling of A.T.S. 5 years ago compared to today would show many more college-educated folks having discussions about obscure jokes and refer ences and that just doesn't happen anymore. It's almost like there's no material for new episode capsules for www.snpp.com anymore, since most of the references and jokes need little explanation. The humor is much more pedestrian and accessable. The show seems more concerned (as another poster put it) with its own internal goings-on than what's actually happening right now in America--from the small things on up.
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I liked the many Homer episodes, for example, in Season 4 because he was more about self-irony than about loud noises and physical humor.
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I got a similar feeling, but even strange sounding plots could turn out well. I'm crossing my fingers.
I have to disagree with this one statement. I think M*A*S*H was also one of the most brilliant satiric comedies of our times. Everything else you said though was right on the mark.
- mirilidium "I have no idea what you said, but I'll fight to the death for your right to confuse me." - Hawkeye Pierce, M*A*S*H 4077
yeah really! Even two years or a year and a half ago this newsgroup had more intelligence on it! --- "Ya ever heard of that Blue Man Group? Total rip-off of the Smurfs! And the Smurfs, they suck!"
Homer Simpson While Drunk (CABF14: "Trilogy of Error")
I read in the paper yesterday that the new season is going to have Homer addicted to medicinal marijuana.Also bart was going to go to some kind of reform school.Should be interesting. Typical Ned No!!!!!!!!! Jamaica Mon.I wanna pass the dutchie on the left hand side.
i know what you mean...today's simpsons eps have little or no heart...some of the funniest episodes has at least some heart...like homer and marge renewing their "fire" for each other by doing it in barns and on putt putt courses. but they were cutting and witty at the same time.
Of course, the show has been the source of much humor. It's just that the humor nowadays is the opposite of much of the humor in the past. We used to get a lot of satire and humorous commentaries on society, bad parenting, religion, etc. And it was all the more satisfying because the characters were REAL. Homer had a 9-5 job, and the family interacted pseudo-realistically. Homer used to be a caring, although somewhat neglectful, father, but now, he's no more intelligent than Maggie. I don't mind a few gags, but there has to be some substance behind the gags. "Chew threw my ball sack" jokes are for 4th graders. ________________________________________________________________
The Indian DVD Resource: http://www.fly.to/indiadvd
I have to say there was a period mid 90's were the Simpsons were at their best. Their episodes were at a genius level, I don't see that in the new epsiodes. "Chris Pfeiler" wrote in message news:[email]...
These are the plotlines: -Homer gets his jaw wired shut, which ends up making him a decent, wonderful human being. -Homer gets addicted to medicinal marijuana. -Bart creates an internet cartoon of Homer, who then becomes the laughing stock of the world. -Marge finds out that the sugar producers are trying to illegally pump sugar into all the Springfield food, and it's like Erin Brockovich.
I was alarmed too when I saw these. However, I don't think we can expect the show to go back to something close to it's glory days after four years of laziness. The staff for season 13 is probably the same as season 12 (with maybe a few changes here and there), and the fact that Al Jean is in charge doesn't guarantee a change in the quality. Al Jean first has to go back to the old way of making Simpsons episodes, whichever that was. I am sure that under Mike Scully the episodes were re-written less (Nancy Cartwright mentions something in her book about a second table read having been eliminated "three seasons ago"). Then he has to make the writers care again about the show they're putting out. And that if he wants to bother to return the show to the quality it deservers.
I expect season 13 to be a transition season, and I'll be happy if I see some good costumes show up (i.e. decent endings, focus on the characters rather than the gag-per-minute ratio, etc).
On the other hand, maybe these plotlines are not that bad, we haven't seen the episodes yet and we are used to expect the worst. Look at these plotlines from old episodes:
-Bart becomes Burns' heir. -Bart sets up an army against Nelson. -Homer finds hist long-lost brother. -Homer goes to India with Apu.
And these are all decent episodes, aren't they?
I hope the show gets back to the quality it used to have right from the start of the season, but I can't expect anything like that to happen overnight and be realistic.
All of the above, of course, is in my humble opinion.
"Nicol�s Di Candia" wrote in message news:9lm5re$9na9m$[email]...
like
peak
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the
few
I've been studying animation esp. recently, and something that's not really talked about is the role of the director. The director of any cartoon basically runs the show as far as the creative end goes. Executive Producer on the Simpsons is analogous to a producer of any other cartoon, meaning Al Jean not only oversees the creative end of the show--but also the non-creative tasks like the production schedule, post-production editing, administrating paperwork, etc. The writers are just a cog in the machine as far as making episodes goes. Read the book by famous Disney animator, Shamus Culhane. "Animation: From Script To Screen." It's fascinating. This guy worked on Snow White, Pinocchio, and he's still kicking. He really advocates the use of computers nowadays--something unexpected for an "old time" animator.
It's got to be a really frustrating job to be a director, where your you may not even know your animators by name--and you may never directly communicate with them. Then again, the director is supposed to have a standard of quality when it comes to writing, as well. If it's not so great, the guy/girl should ship it back for rewrites.
That being said--I think the show will definitely take on a new flavor, because the guy running the show will knowingly or unknowingly make it his/her own. The questions will remain about the Fox Network executives' involvement in the creative end, however.
This is true. But the main focus of the show has always been the writing. Although I don't know much about it technically, I think the animation of the later seasons has gone down in quality with the rest of the show, possibly a result of not having David Silverman since season 10 (that's when the animation became quite strange, the characters don't seem to move the same way, and seem to have different proportions). IMHO, the only part of the show that is still running as strong as always is is the voice acting (except certain aspects related to the departure of Maggie Roswell).
Read the book by famous Disney animator, Shamus
advocates
Thanks for the tip.
may
communicate
I don't know if the director can do this. Ideally he/she should, but it's also possible that they have to get the episodes finished by a certain date or something and that's it.
That's a good point. The show certainly seems more oriented to the network's needs, although I'm not sure why (and if) they are letting it happen. What about the James L. Brooks rule that said "no network input"? Did Scully choose to listen to network "suggestions" or was he forced to do it?
Let's hope season 13 gives us no need to wonder about all these things.
"Nicol�s Di Candia" wrote in message news:9ln52t$a4mg3$[email]...
really
Producer
Al
editing,
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At least from an A.T.S. fan's standpoint.
Silverman kicked butt. It was a terrible loss to The Simpsons when he left.
to move the
Yeah. IMO we take the voice actors' talents for granted at times.
communicate
date
The FOX network is evil, I tells ya. E-VIL!!!
network's
I've talked about Brooks' involvement and that very rule (no network input) before on this group. I got the information (initially) from "Simpsons Illustrated" I think, because that was the only place for Simpsons information before I got on the internet. It may have been a TV or newspaper interview.
At any rate, not many people here seem to have know about this. To me, it stands to reason that in the most recent seasons FOX network execs have started poking their noses around in the production office. There are probably more notes on episodes than ever before. IMO this is the easiest explanation for the "written by committee" feel of some Season 9 and most Season 10-12 episodes.
do it?
That's another question I've asked. Apparently, Scully decided to direct the show more at younger children. Ask Jake Lennington for the specifics on this.
Yeah. We all hope. It's a bummer being/sounding negative, no matter what it looks like to others ;-)
In alt.tv.simpsons, on the "Re: Season 13 sucks?" thread, The Rack wrote:
I suspect if an animation director actually did this, the response from the writing staff would start, "Hey, we don't tell you how to draw ..."
The situation isn't likely to come up anyway, if you believe Nancy Cartwright in her book, "My Life as a 10-Year-Old Boy." As she describes it, the director gets a script and immediately sends assigns it to the storyboard artist. In the meantime, he also gets a tape from the voice actors' recording sessions, and must figure out from this how long each scene should last. To me, this implies that by the time the animation staff gets their mitts on it, the dialogue of the show is just about carved in stone.
In addition to storyboarding and timing duties, the animation director has to supervise the work of a staff of 400 artists (not to mention dealing with the Korean "in-between" animators), make sure the characters are drawn consistently from one scene and one artist to the next, check up on the background drawings, and probably many other things I don't know about. Second-guessing the writers is probably not a part of the program.
Ms. Cartwright writes: "The animation director will work the storyboard to his satisfaction and then send the whole deal over to Gracie Films, the production company that produces the show in association with 20th-Century Fox Television. Here, the exec producer, and/or another producer, will study it and make notes. Since this is all rough, it's easy to change. 'I think Nelson should use both fists to pound Bart.' 'Have Milhouse's glasses get fogged over.' Things like this. It is, of course, the sincere hope of the animation director that they will *love* this storyboard."
Sounds to me like it's the executive producer, not the director, who is the final arbiter of quality questions.
A behind the scenes look at season 13 production, recorded with the writers' permission.
TIM LONG: Here's my script, Al Jean, what do you think? AL JEAN: Hmm...let's see. It starts off well enough. Homer hugs Lisa...that's sweet (continues reading) I think we can do without the radioactive flatulent 50-foot tall monkey rampaging through Springfield. TIM LONG: But my mom says I'm funny. MIKE SCULLY: Yeah, Jean, that idea is kewl. Anyway, I'm the one in charge of this show. AL JEAN: Eh, why don't you run off Scully. MIKE SCULLY: Watch it, you walking tub of donut batter. AL JEAN: Hey, I got pictures of you, Scully. MIKE SCUULY: You don't scare me. That could be anyone's ass!
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TheAbman,
HOM++ LIS+++ BAR++++ BOB++++ 7G12, 7F10,
8F15, 9F22, 1F04, 2F10, 3F13, 4F14, 5F02, AABF03,
BABF05, CABF14
"Is there no place for the man with the 105 IQ?!?!"
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The show's not going to get better right away. Don't forget that Scully didn't destroy the show overnight. It took more than 2 years of gradual crapefying. I predict The Simpsons will be back to being classic again by season 15 or 16.
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TheAbman,
HOM++ LIS+++ BAR++++ BOB++++ 7G12, 7F10,
8F15, 9F22, 1F04, 2F10, 3F13, 4F14, 5F02, AABF03,
BABF05, CABF14
"Is there no place for the man with the 105 IQ?!?!"
***********************
I love it! It hasn't even started yet, and someone is already saying, and seriously, too... that the whole season sucks! Oh my...
Every season has great eps and weak ones, and while I'll agree that the recent years seem to have lost a little of the endearing quality and magic and originality and yes, family-oriented stories that the earlier ones had, there is still much to love and admire in the Simpsons, year in and year out. Bring it on!
By the way, anyone know when the premiere is supposed to be?
I don�t mean it too serious and I�m not saying that it sucks (note the question mark) but just that the plotlines sound pretty strange. And an episode where Homer gets his jaw wired shut seems to suck. Is it too early to already push the "Worst Episode Ever" button? ;-)
Seriously, I�d be happy if the season proves me wrong but I doubt it now more than ever before. That�s what I meant.