7 Points about The Simpsons [very long]

It�s complain time again ;-)

I had nothing else to do so I wrote a text with 7 detailled points which can (at least in my humble opinion) show you why the seasons 1 - 3 were the best ever and maybe the only "true" Simpsons seasons and why most of todays episodes fail or even suck and why the show has lost its identity. It�s just my personal and nostalgian opinion and nobody has to share it, but I think most of the points are at least partly correct. Comments are welcome.

Pardon my English. I hope everything�s understandable.

1.) There was no overdone bizarrity and sight gag wackyness

One of the most frequent complaints and clearly one of the most justified, so there isn�t much to say. Anybody can see it on his or her own if he or she compares a classic episode with a modern episode. The show was much more grounded in reality in the second and third season but the wackyness and the too frequent use of bizarre sight gags started to kick in already in the fourth and fifth season.

Sure, it was never like a real world and Homer fell down Springfield Gorge and survived (severly injured) already back in season 2 but the wackyness started to take over the episodes around the fifth season when Homer walked green-glowing around and said "Must destroy mankind" and other stuff.

What we have today is - as CBG would say - some kind of descent into bizarro world and there�s no episode without outlandish und cartoonish nonsense. Take "Jackanapes" - was the bizarre melting scene with the Network Executives really necessary? I�m not saying that there were no good sight gags in the past but the show was IMO at its best when it didn�t need that kind of bizarre jokes but could instead rely on the strong stories and characters. Every bizarre sight gag and nonsense means to me that there�s something wrong with the story and even the newer good episodes like the really great "Summer of 4 Ft 2" were IMO that great because they didn�t use such jokes but grounded in reality and relied on the characters and on the power of the characters.

2.) Characters ain�t no longer what they used to be

Well, that�s also a pretty long story, but I think nearly everybody on the show lost his or her original character during the years and the family isn�t the same it was in the beginning and that bad change started already back in the fourth season when Homer became dumber and dumber and many other characters lost parts of their depth and emotionality.

Homer not only lost his rest of intelligence but also his innonence and childness and became a selfish and mad jerk who is that dumb that he can�t say one logical sentence. Lisa lost everything that made her an 8-year-old sad child with a great sense of moral back in the first seasons and became a partly annoying mini adult with own lawyer and a very strange attitude. Bart lost his three-dimensionality as a "bad boy" but child with feelings and became a flat and mean brat and Marge - well, Marge became a hysterical housewife without any real character (that happened mostly in the last years)

The same thing about the relationship between the characters. Bart and Lisa had a strong relationship as siblings in the first years and they were great as a team. What happened over the years - they became more and more selfish enemies (with some exceptions) and Bart said things like "I�ll make your life a living hell" in season 9. That�s not good. What happened to Homer and Marge and their strong relationship from episodes like "Life on the Fast Lane" or "The Way We Was" or "Colonel Homer"? Today they seem to live in different worlds without any real emotion for each other, just take the horrible kitchen scene from Bye Bye Nerdie. Every character has become flat and empty.

3.) The emotion has gone, what remains is flat wackyness

The same as above. Many characters have lost their self and became tools of wacky jokes. Just take Ned Flanders and his strange and emotionless behaviour when Maude died. Ned�s also no longer the same guy he was in the early years (I think he lost it in the tenth season). How would they�ve made such an important episode in the second and third season? Definetely not that flat and tasteless as in season 11. Episodes such as "Life on The Fast Lane" or the great "Lisa�s Substitute" proved that the show was clearly at its best when the balance between fun and seriousness was at its best and that was again back in the second and third season.

4.) Intelligence has gone, what remains is mostly stupid and aimed at kids

Also a good point: back in the very first years there were many witty and subtle references to things like history, literature and famous authors (e.g. Poe) or ... but today there�s mostly Fart&Burp and "Show me your boobs" in a plot that sometimes seems to be straight from Kids TV. Celebrities like N�Sync and other "cool" stuff is part of that descent into simple, empty and straight fun which isn�t really funny and Simpsons typical at all.

The Simpsons was once an intelligent satire grounded in reality, now it�s an ostensibly funny fart gag show with as many sexual references and dirty jokes as possible which sometimes seems to exist only for the purpose of self irony and mocking internet fans.

5.) Logic and Continuity has gone

It also started back in the years after the fourth or fifth season but it became a real problem as usual in season 9 and above. Ned Flanders is 60 years old? Skinner is Armin Tamzarian? The Simpson Farm burned down (as an important element of the plot) but is rebuildt by magic forces in season 11? The Simpsons are no family but just actors? Homer has a crayon in his brain? Osmodiar appears twice in an episode to show us that cartoons don�t have to make sense? Certain episodes just don�t need continuity any longer, they end with the most wackiest or emptiest ideas (Let�s go surfin�). Is that funny or real Simpsons style any longer. Sure, I know, cartoons don�t have to be 100% realistic and a wizard did it (stereotypical Fox excuses) but is it right and Simpsons style?

6.) The animation isn�t the same as in the early years.

Complaining about the new animation sounds always like a desparate try to find something to complain about (not that it�s really necessary to search, there are enough obvious reasons to complain) but it�s IMO at least partly justified. Even I must admit that the animation was especially in the very first episodes sometimes very crude compared to todays standards but I think the show found its true style of design and animation in the years 2 and 3 and lost it step by step afterwards with the "invention" of gum-like faces or distorted body parts and strangely moving characters.

Today something�s wrong. The shapes of characters and backgrounds are too round and smooth, the movements are sometimes untypical and very cartoon-like (I know, it�s a cartoon) and certain scenes and 3D animations seem to come straight from an animation computer, even the color palette seem to have changed partly and everything is round and smooth and strangely colored (I guess you must compare it directly to a season 2 or 3 episode to see the difference.) It�s not the true Simpsons style any longer but more of a usual and generic cartoon design. Everything is - I dunno - more sterile and artificial. Don�t ask me why, it�s more of an impression or a feeling.

7.) There were no forced celebrity appearances

Sure, we already had some celebrities in the first three seasons but it didn�t seem so forced or useless as most of todays cameos and the first celebrities never or rarely played themselves but just a funny charakter like Leon Kompowski (Michael Jackson was great in mocking himself) or a deep charakter like Mr Bergstrom (great work by Dustin Hoffman) and they didn�t even use their real names in the show but pseudonyms like Sam Etic or John Jay Smith.

Today most of the celebrity appearances are just simply annoying and senseless and many of those guys are just there to say "Hey, I�m on the Simpsons too". Being in the show has become some sort of status symbol for them and thus they�ll participate in the wackiest plots ever. However, too many celebrity appearances is definetly not a problem of the modern episodes, it began already back in episodes like "Krusty gets Kancelled" which was nevertheless a pretty good one. I think the problem reached its peak after season 8 or 9 when the writers started to rely more on the celebrity instead of concentrating on the story.

It was once pretty cool and unusual if you could say "Hey, Michael Jackson and Ringo Starr were on the show" but today there�s hardly an episode without forced celebrity celebration. Take N�Sync as an example: they were absolutely useless for the plot of the episode but were just there to make the Simpsons look like a cool kids show. There was a thin trace of satire but mostly star glorification for ten year olds. Or Ron Howard who will be in the show already for the third time. Is is really good any longer? Instead of relying on the "coolness" of numerous useless celebrities the writers should try to make more logical and better structured episodes.

I hope I�ve made some of the points clear and I hope that at least a few people will agree. The twelfth season had some really good moments and "Trilogy of Error" was undoubtedtly a step in the right direction but the great show the Simpsons was in the early years 1990/1991 is gone forever and it won�t come back. Season 1 - 3 were great, Season 4 - 8 were still very very good but from season 9 on the show lost its identity and it hasn�t found it back yet. Let�s hope they�ll do it some day.

Meanwhile: Seasons 1 - 3 rule :-)

Chris

Sorry, I forgot part of that sentence. Here�s the correct one to make it complete.

"...to things like history, literature and famous authors (e.g. Poe) or religion (Take "Like Father Like Clown") but today there�s..."

Chris

Some very good points, Chris. Seeing older episodes in syndication (you know, the ones I don't mind watching all the way through) makes me wonder "what happened?" as well.

And sometimes the newer episodes are just frustrating as hell. Yesterday, I saw a rerun of "Saddlesore Galactica," the first act of which, with the band contest at the state fair, is pretty darn good. Then it takes a turn right into the dumper with the horse story and Homer putting down CBG. That was an out an out "fuck you" to the longtime loyal fans, and it took away from the enjoyment of the show for me ever since. A new episode at 8pm on Sunday is no longer must-see for me.

"James Allen" wrote in message news:[email]...

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That was actually funny for me.

I would say the animation has gotten less cartoony, but that depends on what you mean by "cartoony". The movements have become very stiff and mechanical. Squash 'n stretch, overlapping motion, anticipation, and follow through are all used in extreme moderation. This is typical of much TV animation, but that's a lame excuse. Rough Draft Studios can't even stay on model any more.

The producers always say that The Simpsons isn't about the animation. I've been thinking the animation budget has been cut to pay the actors or something.

I hope you don't take my attempt to destroy you too seriously:

Personally, I like this - in moderation. You do have to remember it *is* a cartoon, regardless of how often people claim that it's "so much more than just a cartoon". Yes, it is, but it is still a cartoon, and part of that is the ability to suspend the normal laws of the world. Bizarre, un-realistic things have always been a part of cartoons, or "animated series", all the way back to tom and jerry, and the road-runner and wile-e-coyote.

In 12 years, people change, writers change, society's changed, and you, yourself have changed. Just because the characters don't age, doesn't mean we can't expect them to evolve.

I have to agree with this to a certain extent. The show does no longer deal with serious issues like suicide and religion anymore, and I have to say that that is a bad thing.

Again, true, but you also have to remember that it is, and always was, a show aimed towards children. The difference is that you've since grown up. Yes, in earlier shows there were some heavy issues, and jokes aimed at adults that went over kids' heads, but it was, and still is a kids show. Some of the reason you enjoy the older episodes more must come from a certain sense of nostolgia, since IMO some of the season 1-3 episodes really sucked. What you seem to expect is for the show to follow you and your interests as you age. Did you watch seseme street when you were 3? Now do you still watch it? (I'll assume no, for the purposes of my argument.) You out-grew it, because it's a kids show. Maybe you've just out-grown the Simpsons. I hope I never reach that stage, but there is that possibility. I remember high quality (IMO) cartoons like Transformers, Ducktales, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. My younger brothers watch cartoons nowadays that I think are absolutly retarded. They don't think so, because they're in the target demographic, I'm not. I think Transformers is good when I see it, because I remember seeing it as a kid, and it brings back feelings of Saturday morning cartoons. You've changed, society has changed, and the show has changed to reflect a change in society, not a change in you.

I've never believed that the Simpsons requires continuity. In fact, I think it's better that it doesn't, since in syndication the episodes tend to be completely mixed up. It's much easier to have everything "return to normal" at the end of an episode than sit there and say "Hmm, ok, is this before or after the farm burned down?"

I'll agree, I'd say it's better. But maybe that's just me.

This is the only point of yours that I will agree with fully (although I do enjoy the random, senseless Ron Howard appearances). Celebrities have always appeared on the Simpsons, but in eariler episodes it wasn't the main focus of the show.

Personally, I hate most of season 1. I don't like most of the episodes prior to season 4. After that, it's all great, with admittedly a downturn around season 10.

No problem, but I hope you don�t mind if I don�t agree with any of your points. I�d say the Simpsons started to go down at least a little already after season 3 and you would say they started to be good then so we have very different viewpoints.

I don�t think that I out-grew the Simpsons but that the show became in fact gradually more childish and sense- and plotless. Bizarre gags were always elements of cartoons like Coyote and Roadrunner but the Simpsons were never a show of that kind and I think it would have never reached the cult status it has today if it would have been just a silly cartoon. I also think the Simpsons can�t work without continuity because that was what gave you the feeling to watch a satire in a kind of working and "real" world.

A point I don�t really understand is that you say you hate season 1 and you don�t like most of seasons 2 - 3. Those were IMO the seasons that defined the show as best show on earth. But maybe it�s just me..

Well, we could argue for months without any result. People watch the show for different reasons and most of the reasons why I watched the show are gone meanwhile.

Chris

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The reason I can't stand season one, is that I can't stand to watch the poor drawing and voice quality. The babysitter bandit (Some Enchanted Evening), the plant picnic (There's no disgrace like home), and Homer's Night out make me cringe, though some (including you) would argue they are among the best. Homer's Odyssey is another episode I dislike, with the exception of the suicide attempt scene, since it covers such heavy material.

Personally I find that while the episodes in the first three seasons have substance and a point (which the current and previous few seasons lack), they are often sappy and obvious. It wasn't until the fourth season, IMO, that the writers found a way to put across a message without bashing us over the head with it.

Case in point: Homer the Heretic (Season 4) is filled with great humour, but gets clearly across the point that we should respect people of all religions, because there is more to people than their religious beliefs. Duffless (Season 4) deals with Alcoholism, a serious problem, but in a humorous way, still keeping the point intact. Last Exit to Springfield (Season 4) is about corporations vs. the common worker. The Last temptation of Homer (Season 5) addresses adultery in a much more humorous, realistic, and less direct way than Homer's Night out (Season 1), while still emphasising (more effectively, IMO) the importance of being faithful. $pringfield (5): Gambling addiction; Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy (5): Feminism; The Boy who knew too much (5): Honesty; Lisa's Rival (Season 6): Jealousy; Lisa on Ice (6): Sibling Rivalry; Homer: Bad Man (6): Sexual Harassment (and more explicitly, false accusations of sexual harassment).

Season 7 (my favourite Season), deals with acceptable parenting styles (Home Sweet Home-Diddily-Dum-Doodily), Religion - again - (Bart Sells his soul), Attempting to force your views on others (Lisa the Vegetarian - my favourite episode), Theft/Shoplifting (Marge be not proud), class struggle (Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield), Racism (Much Apu About Nothing), and friendship (Summer of 4ft2).

The point is, the Simpsons continued to deal with heavy and serious topics well past the 3rd season. The difference is that it became more covert, forcing viewers to read between the lines. For me, this made the episodes easier and more fun to watch because you can enjoy the humour (including senseless jokes, which you have stated you dislike) while still being able to appreciate the serious topics presented. I personally, find season 1, and to some degree 2 and 3, overly preachy. For one example, Homer's night out says that Adultery is bad basically because Marge got mad at Homer. The Last Temptation of Homer makes the same point by showing us the struggle Homer goes through in his own mind, he himself coming to the conclusion without Marge saying it was bad. To facilitate this, i have created a simple diagram: Season 1 --> "Homer, cheating is bad! Tell Bart this" --> Audience, Adultery is bad because we tell you so. Season 5 --> Homer comes to the realisation that despite Mindy's attractiveness, he loves Marge --> The audience realises that it is right to stay with your wife, without having to be directly told so.

Why is it that I can write forever about the Simpsons, but can't write enough when doing a research paper?

I'm spent.

It may surprise you but I wouldn�t argue that "Enchanted Evening" or "No Disgrace" are among the very best, "No Disgrace" is maybe the only one of the early episodes I really don�t like. I even admit that season 1 had a couple of episodes with pretty weak stories and weak messages in comparison to later seasons (and by later I mean not only 2 and 3 but also seasons 4 - 8).

I think season 1 started to be really good somewhere in the middle with all-time classics (at least I would call them so) like "Life on the Fast Lane" which was maybe the first episode that gave real depth to Homer�s and Marge�s character and relationship (but wasn�t really funny but extremly serious) or "The Crepes of Wrath" or "Krusty Gets Busted" which is still a far better Sideshow Bob episode than "Jackanapes".

You�re right that the very first seasons were more direct with a moral and sometimes too emotional and sappy and obvious, but I think through that they defined the characters as more real than many other cartoon characters such as The Flintstones. However, many problems were shown in a too simple and superficial way in season 1 so season 2 was a clear improvement not only for the stories but also for the characters and thus I like "Lisa�s Substitute" much more than "Moaning Lisa".

As an example: Lisa was always crying and sad in "Moaning Lisa" but there was neither an obvious reason nor a satisfying solution for the problem and that�s maybe what you call too obvious and sappy. In "Lisa�s Substitute" however the problem was defined much better, namely the relationship between Lisa and her father although the problem wasn�t really solved and gave material for all upcoming Homer/Lisa episodes (from which "Lisa�s Substitute" is still one of the best.) "Moaning Lisa" is still memorable for being a very sad episode with a good Homer/Bart subplot and for having a good song but it was clearly lacking in focus and content.

I can say the same for most of the season 1 episodes but I think that every season 1 episode has a season 2 or 3 episode which made it better and gave more depth to the message and the character. One of my all-time favourits is "Like Father Like Clown" from season 3 which is on first sight also a very sappy episode about Krusty and his estranged father but is on the other hand a very deep and intelligent episode about religion with quotes from the Talmud and other writings and finally dealing with the fate of the Jewish people (the episode owes much to the great voice of the Rabbi) and what episode from a later season than 3 would do that and in such a serious way?

It may again surprise you but you just named many of my personal favourits from the seasons 4 - 6 so our taste seems to be not as different as I thought. Homer the Heretic, Duffless, Last Exit, Lisa vs Malibu Stacy etc. were all great episodes with a good balance between humour and serious and satirical content (which isn�t aimed at children) and I agree with you that there were many episodes with serious and heavy topics well past the third season but there were also more and more episodes without real message which had very thin satire but were just wacky and for the simple amusement (none of them is on your list) and I think that problem started to kick in during season 4 and 5 in episodes such as "Marge vs The Monorail" or "Homer goes to College" or "Homer the Vigilante".

The best episode about adultery is IMO still "Colonel Homer" (so we�re again back in season 3) but "Last Temptation of Homer" was also a pretty good one, although it had some wacky elements like a tube to Afghanistan and flying monkeys which clearly shows that we�re above the classic seasons. As a Lisa fan I would never say anything bad about the Lisa episodes on your list but I also think Lisa episodes started to become really bad in season 9 and later when Lisa became more and more of an annoying mini adult and season 11 had the worst Lisa episodes (the one with the leprosy and the tap dance episode).

The seventh season is maybe also my favourite one above the three classic seasons because it�s probably the most serious season after the third. Episodes such as "Bart sells his Soul" or "Marge be Not Proud" are dealing with good and serious topics with the right balance between seriousness and dark moments, dignity for the character and straight and simple humour without too much wackyness. "Summer of 4 Ft 2" is probably the best Simpsons episode ever.

We don�t have to agree about the classic seasons (I never try to convince somebody) but I think we both agree to a certain amount that the show started to go down after season 8 or 9.

Me too ;-). And it�s more difficult for me because I�m not a native English speaker.

Chris

started

Your points are all valid, and I will take them into consideration. I have enjoyed this debate, but am too lazy to write another long winded response, so I will leave it at this:

Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't agree to that! Neither to I!

... and hired goons!

"Scott Vivian" wrote in message news:[email]...

Hired goons?

Nathan

snip...

wrong

Okay, is it just me, or is there something wrong with reading "Germany America Online?"

Just as stupid as AOL Canada....

And let's not even get started on Bertelsmann and all the other major record companies harassing Napster...

On 08 May 2001 09:42:21 GMT, [email] (Chris Pfeiler) wrote:

No reason to apologies, it's much more clear than what many native-English speakers write...

But those were among some of the most amusing jokes... especially when his watch went off and he shook off the killing spree mood to go eat. :)

Terminator joke.

IMHO, the show has a balance of story/dialogue based jokes, and then the sight gags. It's important, of course, to maintain a balance. I think the "gross out" jokes (especially most of the incidents involving eyeballs in the past two seasons) were over the line, but at least I haven't seen any lately... and I hope I don't either...

They might evolved/devolved a bit, but they do return to their roots, depending on the episode...

"Kids can be so cruel."

'We can mom? [thanks!]'

"Oh, Barrrrt!"

The death episode wasn't very well done in the second half.

Without a doubt some of the celebrity appearances have been banal (Kid Rock was worse), but that's partly of matter of personal taste. Some people like them - and these people are adults, no less!

I think that's taking everything a little too harsly and personally. This season had a higher than average number of cheap sex jokes, but they were mostly pretty subtle [esp. Kent Brockman saying 'golden showers']

The first two episodes you cite are largely forgettable. As for Osmodiar, his most recent appearance was hilarious... I suppose his earlier appearnces served to introduce him as a potential gag-character.

I think they could try harder. The end, after doing such a great parody (was it of "The Sting"? My memory isn't what it was a few weeks ago...), they finish off the episode with something totally idiotic.

On the other hand, they haven't completely lost their touch: the logging episode with the log travelling out to sea was very well done.... and funny.

Ron Howard's turning into Osmodiar (in terms of being a running joke). I don't think this is a good thing.

I'd disagree, saying that the middle seasons were the actual 'golden age.' I wouldn't group all of the first two seasons into that golden age.

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Maybe the writers decided that they shouldn't repeat the same storylines over and over (well, this particular storyline, anyway)

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What about the parody of 'The Prisoner' from "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes"(CABF02) - I've never seen the show, nor had I heard of it when someone told me it was from that -- it's a very old TV show.

Also, the main reason that the show is aimed mainly at kids is because its kids which are the majority of the audience (or young people in general anyway)

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"Bosom!" -- Bart, in Dead Putting Society

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why have continuity? it's a cartoon! Watch "Skinners Sense of snow" - the references to "Mr. Plow" are pretty funny and shows us that we don't need continuity! Ned: "What happened to your snow plough from your snow plow business?" Homer: "What snow plough business?" Ned: you know, you're snow plough business. You're wearing the jacket right now!" Homer: "I think I remember my own life, Ned." [drives off, singing the Mr Plow song]

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What? The animation is better now than it ever was. OK, some things can be unrealistic, but that's just part of the unrealistic storylines! The early animation, especially s1 and s2, has poor animation and definitely very poor lip sync.

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if you watch the first season, you may notice that the walls of OFF's house are painted with 'fading paint' - the color fades from pink to white as you move across the wall - this defiitely does not look natural.

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i agree with this point.

Seasons 1 and 2 were quite poor, Season 3 is starting to get the right idea, and seasons 4 to 8 were the peak of the simpsons. the show has lost some quality, but only what would be expected from a long-running show. I would say that at least 80% of episodes in seasons 9-12 were good, and about 4-8 from each season were excellent!

=== Scott Vivian The Simpsons Club http://simpsonsclub.topcities.com "Inspired by the most logical race in the galaxy, the Vulcans, breeding will be permitted once every 7 years. For many of you, this will mean much less breeding. For me, much much more."

Why look at the 7 bad points when you can look at the 50+ good points! (No, I am not going to name any!)

Okay, here we go!

At least better than my English.

There's another interresting thing: Think of the first seasons and their "reality"!

The Simpsons lived in their own world with imaginary cities. But later their world turned into a real existing world with famous cities. Then it changed again in the "comic world" from "Itchy & Scratchy", so that anything can be possible, because: It is just a cartoon. I really hate that, because with their wackyness they destroyed everything which has been just right. It is not necessary to put the show in a real world which is 100%ly realistic, but at least they shouldn't put The Simpsons in such a curious world, where everything is possible.

No. This scene is totally stupid and pointless. I think it should show us, that it is "just a cartoon", because it is inbetween of all the serious "Sideshow Bob" parts. Another stupid thing which I think is seen to much in S12 is that "subtitle gag". The dolphins, apes, indians...

Yes, you're right. There were many good sight-gags in the past and they were so good, because they were used just right. In new episodes it seems, that the story is just written to take us from one sight-gag to the next. I think that sight-gags aren't necessary, because - as you said - there are really good episodes without them.

That's a real problem, but I have to say something in general to this: Think of Marge in "There's No Disgrace Like Home". She was drunk and did stupid thinks. In the "Scorpio" Episode she drinks again and in S12, too. She was a bit crazy and that made her go insane in S11 (she was 'a bit' crazy in Moaning Lisa)

Homer became dumber because the audience liked it. I don't want to blame anybody, but we wanted it (not me). A really sad thing is, that Homer became a jealous man, who doesn't care for his children. In S1 at least he tried to teach the children something, but later he lost all of his character. Now he is Bart, and Bart is a brat.

Just like Homer and this "We are great parents" thing. Lost. But their relationship existed just in special episodes, not all the time.

Yeah, they srewed that with Maude. But remember, it was just because the voice actor left the show. They were forced to do that, and maybe they didn't want us to be sad

about it.

Agree.

Just one thing: If they make references to 90's stuff, the time has to go on, but they decided to do both: People who can't become older and - uhm - time.

That was too much, but at least he could be older than we excepted.

That destroyed his character. Bad.

Didn't somebody say this could be after they sold tomacco? It's not really sure, if the order of the seasons is identic with the time this "happens".

I don't get it. Why actors?

D'oh. This is really stupid.

It should be funny, but was just the explaination: Writer (out of ideas): "I don't know - I don't care, but this is funny. Hihihi..."

No, it's not the Simpsons style, but sometimes it happens. 12 years continuity would be too much work.

The first seasons were so much "movie like". They didn't use cartoony camera angles like in later seasons. Think of the dynamic view in that episode, where Maggie hit Homer in the garage.

I think that's an even more bigger hype, because they can tell everybody what "funny" thing they did. That's not really the explanation, but I can't word what I think. Sorry.

Just like in sitcoms like Married With Children: Celebrities come in - the audience is satisfied. That's a lousy try to get viewers.

I don't think so, this is a better example for a senseless episode. They put thousands of celebrities in one show.

You're right.

At least I agree ;-)

Seasons 1-3 rule!

No I'm out of time, but I hope I didn't make too many mistakes.

• Andi

See, here�s the proof that all Germans are nostalgians and fans of the classic Simpsons. Well, maybe not all of them but just us two ;-)

It�s not completely stupid and pointless but should be a Terminator parody but I think it�s very inappropriate for the episode. Many things are not quite right in that Bob episode, especially the execution scene at the end.

them.

Without or in very moderate use. And many of those episodes were the best. Bizarrity spoils episodes and stories - at least for me.

thinks.

The problem that Marge has a tendency to - how should I say - a somewhat weird behaviour isn�t new and it happened already in the very first episode "Some Enchanted Evening" but she always kept part of her character and dignity. Today she has lost most of her character and has become a shrill caricature of a crazy housewife. Many people think it�s funny but personally I don�t.

"Jelaous" is maybe the wrong word, I guess you mean "selfish". I think we saw the best characterization of Homer back in seasons 2 and 3. He was slow and somewhat of a dim-wit but nevertheless a well-meaning and nice guy with whom you could really feel. Homer started to loose it when he began to push other people around and call them "Suckers" and "Idiots" and to care only for himself.

Bart has always been a brat (that�s how he got his name) but he was once a brat with a three-dimensional personality. Now he is more of an automatic and stereotypical chaos machine without any depth.

I wouldn�t say it destroyed his character but it was one of the first clear signs that the writers were running out of ideas. I�m not sure but I guess many people didn�t like it back then but have accepted it today.

You don�t get it? I�m talking about "Behind the Laughter". Many people loved that episode and considered it as possibly best season 11 episode while others considered it as pretty bad. I don�t know what to think, the episode caused just an empty feeling in my stomach while watching it. It meant nothing to me and was IMO unneccesary.

What exactly do you mean by cartoony camera angles? 3D spins? I never considered camera angles as part of the problem, actually I always liked new experiments with 3D effects and angles as long as they were done in the classic style.

I think the more "artificial" and smooth animation is merely a problem of the last 2 or 3 seasons. Some people may consider it as an improvement while others (like me) consider it as break with the classic style.

Amen :-)

You sure did. Just kidding ;-)

Chris

P.S. You shouldn�t agree with everything I said. Now it looks like all Germans are such stubborn nostalgians like me ;-)

Was that my "typo", too?

Oops, I _actually_ meant jealous AND selfish, because I think he lives so much in the "Uh, I wanna do, I wanna do! Out of my way everybody, here I come!" way. (ex.: Computer episode --> everybody has a computer, but me. I'll buy one!) But I admit: You got me.

I know. FAQ.

I mean Homer became a 10year-old like Bart was, and Bart is... yes.. the chaos machine.

If I see Seymour telling Vietnam stories I just remember that. Destroy is a bit hard, but... here we are.

Like me.

I thaught that was a nightmare! This episode exists? Oh no ;-)

No, I mean effects caused by the camera which make me think of the "Roadrunner" or something like that. How Homer is hurt by this animal in "Lisa the treehugger", for example.

Agree! ;-) But really: Did I?

Andreas Kr�sing wrote in message news:[email]...

Uh oh... the Germans are talking about some sort of chaos machine.

...are the Germans mad at you?

Please to stop the Pretending You Are Scared game.

buh?

G��� P��� G.�.�. wrote in message news:[email]...

ixnay on the uhbay

"Rebecca Webb" wrote in message news:[email]...

Please to explain it?

Please to repeat again, and I will translating for the El Presidente.

In response to the original post of this thread:

You make some excellent points.... and if you saw my long post about my favorite epsiodes last week, you know I agree with you on many of your complaints. Some may find it hard to believe, but the show's first real downturnwas in Season 5, when the plots and situations got wilder and wilder. However, at that time, they were still fresh and funny ideas, no matter how wacky.

We fans of the early episodes need to remember that the show is still a commercial endeavor, designed to make money -- the writers and producers can't rely on the loyal old fans to keep the show going. They have to try to appeal to new (read: younger) viewers to keep the show alive. I am not trying to make excuses for the quality of recent seasons, I am just saying that it is an economic reality. It is unfortunate, because in my opinion, it has wrecked the show.

"Quality Shmality. If I had a TV show, I'd run that sucker in the ground."

Yes, I saw your posting and replied to it. It�s always good to see people with such a good taste concerning episodes. I think I couldn�t even write a list with my favorite episodes because I�d name half of season 1, the entire seasons 2 and 3 and most of season 4 (and also many episodes between 5 and 8.)

On the other hand, if I would have to write a list of good episodes past season 8 it would unfortunately be a very very short list.

Chris

<< On the other hand, if I would have to write a list of good episodes past season 8 it would unfortunately be a very very short list. >>

Agreed. Very Short indeed.

Kurt

"Quality Shmality. If I had a TV show, I'd run that sucker in the ground."

Relax. Don't take it so personal. Enjoy the show for what it is.