Fans defend Elaine's attractiveness and charm against criticism, with most disagreeing that she is unattractive and praising her personality, hair, and on-screen presence.
She is cute, but she has been accused of overracting.>
Elaine is incredibly unattractive, especially considering her hair. I would greet the day she was dropped from the show with great joy, especially if they replace her with Susan.
"If its any consolation, Apu, I've found that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead. Homer Simpson
Ugly??? The woman is beautiful. Yeah, she overreacts, but that's part of the fun. Her hair???? I'd kill for her hair (and her shoes)
Beauty / eye / beholder, etc.
My wife is a pretty good judge of things, you know. And when I first told her I thought Elaine was the best looking woman on TV, she said: "Well, she isn't. But the way she acts, talks, and carries herself...that's what does it for you. She's ALIVE. That makes her pretty to you."
See, my wife is really great. =========================================================
=========================================================
Why must Elaine's shoes always be a topic of conversation
They're boddochellies (sp?)
<Ugly??? The woman is beautiful. Yeah, she overreacts, but that's part of
<the fun. Her hair???? I'd kill for her hair (and her shoes'
Vomit colored hair is not particularly appealing and certainly not worth a homicide. She also a certain indefinable repugnance that makes her very unattactive.
"If its any consolation, Apu, I've found that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead. Homer Simpson
In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:
a
Since when is vomit black? Moron.
I will openly apologize to Elaine fans for calling her hair vomit colored. I had not noticed that it was solid black this season rather than the very dark pukish orange color of the past two seasons. I don't pay much attention to her anymore and I totally missed this. I do, however, recall the days when her hair was a very pleasant brown and thus this makes her current situation all the more unappealing. Sorry.
"If its any consolation, Apu, I've found that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead. Homer Simpson
In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:
colored.
Her hair was not orange.
Her hair was not orange. >
It was indeed a very dark orange or red not very long ago. This time, I am sure I'm right.
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
JCS21212 (who else could it have been?) wrote:
Her hair was red when she played a role on "The Single Worst Show, uh, er, The Single Guy" yeah that's the show. She was 'danger-woman' on that episode, and she had an ugly red coloring to her hair. I don't recall her hair ever changing color on Seinfeld.
<Her hair was red when she played a role on "The Single Worst Show, uh, er, The Single Guy" yeah that's the show. She was 'danger-woman' on that episode, and she had an ugly red coloring to her hair. I don't recall her
hair ever changing color on Seinfeld.>
Then you haven't watched but a couple of seasons of Seinfeld. Elaine began the show with light brown hair. And I'll tell you what, she does have orange highlights even now. Her hair is mostly black, but if you look closely, its not totally black but rather black in parts and orange in other ones. And it looks absolutely hideous.
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
In article <you left out the "has">, [email] (JCS21212) writes:
a
How fortunate for JDL that the folks at Clairol( I hope that's the right brand) don't see it that way...But, what do they know about hair color?
Did you say "indefinable"??? I think I could dig up one or two instances where you went to great lengths to "define" what you find repugnant.
Elaine's looks are both attractive, and interesting...Susan is boring in every way.
HF
"Just keep thinkin" Butch.That's what yer good at!"
-Sundance Kid< Did you say "indefinable"??? I think I could dig up one or two <instances where you went to great lengths to "define" what you find <repugnant.
< Elaine's looks are both attractive, and interesting...Susan is boring <in every way.
I mostly have criticized Elaine's personality, dress and hair and have gone to great lengths to define what I dislike about them but I find the other aspects of her appearance (face, so on and so forth) also unappealing I suppose just for personal reasons. I will say that Susan is not boring and Elaine is very much repugnant. I have stated why the character of Elaine is so unappealing and cited many examples of her malice, cruelty, and wickedness and yet still people claim to like her. She is not much of villain (like Newman) so I don't see how she picks up fan in this department, she's just mean. The Elaine character has gone from a decent, pleasant character to one of the biggest jerks on T.V. And yet still, Seinfeld fans love her. I don't understand why, unless you think she is funny. I will continue to state that Susan has no negative qualities and thus disliking her for any reason is nearly impossible.
"If its any consolation, Apu, I've found that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead. Homer Simpson
Elaine's negative personality traits provide great humor. Those traits are crucial, as I briefly explained in my last post. And I might add, you use very strong language in describing her evilness. You go SO far that, to me, it makes you slightly less credible, as if you held a vendetta against her. She's not THAT bad.
Bingo. Hello, the reason I watch the whole show is because I think it's funny. What else would I like about her? This isn't Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman we're talking about here.
And I say that a lack of negative qualities does not a positive quality make.
Susan exists so there can be interesting situations -- the "sit" of the "com". I explained this, using your own examples, over the Christmas break. If you were gone on vacation you may not have read it.
Paul
<Elaine's negative personality traits provide great humor. Those traits are crucial, as I briefly explained in my last post. And I might add, you use very strong language in describing her evilness. You go SO far that, to me, it makes you slightly less credible, as if you held a vendetta against her. She's not THAT bad.>
I don't have any vendetta against Elaine and yes, she is that evil. There is not an episode in the last two to three seasons where she is not deliberately insulting, arrogant, rude, and cruel to another character on the show. Newman may be sort of the same way, but at least he talks to people in a civil manner. Elaine doesn't even do that. Furthermore Elaine is incredibly insincere (note the second and third episodes this season where she tells the Rabbi her feelings about George and then tells George totally different things) and incredibly arrogant. She refers to George as a loser constantly, she purposefully hurts other characters (recently in the episode with Ramone the poolguy) and she doesn't do anything pleasant anymore. Elaine is as bad as I describe and there is too much evidence to back it up to cite here. Incidentally, a lack of negative qualities does indeed make a positive quality. Furthermore, Susan has many positive qualities as well. Finally, Elaine is not as funny as Jerry, George, or Kramer and therefore her pathetic attempts at comedy don't make up for her general unpleasantness. You people really astound me in your praise of one of the cruelest non-villains on television.
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
I disagree. But I can quickly see that an argument here is useless.
How can you say that?! You can like, nay, ADORE someone simply because you can't find anything irritating about them? What do you LIKE about her?
You said this before. I asked you to list them. No list. And I'm not about a list of qualities you'd like to see in a friend, I'm talking about a list of qualities you'd like to see in a sitcom character.
More of the useless argument.
Who are you calling "you people"? YOU really astound ME in your taste for sitcom characters. A character who is only around for plot points has become your raison d'etre for watching the show.
Paul
P.S. Thank you for changing your .sig
<Who are you calling "you people"? YOU really astound ME in your taste for sitcom characters. A character who is only around for plot points has become your raison d'etre for watching the show.
Paul
P.S. Thank you for changing your .sig>
You people refers to the Pro-Elaine faction. I listed Susan's good points under a different subject, you should be seeing it soon (like now). A plate with no cracks is a good plate, and a character with no flaws is a good character. I will say in response to everything else that you are evading the issue. If you think that Elaine's "humor" outweighs her unpleasantness then I would like to know why you think so? If you think her humor is her unpleasantness, then I am very curious to hear your reasons. No one has answered this. The posts on Elaine just say she is funny. Not why.
Incidentally, I'll try and change my signature on a semi-weekly basis if I can remember.
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
I haven't noticed a "Pro-Elaine faction". There are people who think Elaine is as funny as the other main characters, and that Susan is not too funny. That's as close as anything I've seen to a Pro-Elaine faction.
A plate with no cracks in it can be made of paper or it can be made of gold. A character with no flaws in it can be a supporting character or it can be the star of the show. The lack of flaws does not imply greatness. Especially on a show where "flaws" actually contribute in a positive way (previous posts).
Her humour outweighs her unpleasantness simply because her humor is very much and her unpleasantness is very little.
1. The entertainment I get from watching Elaine is from the way she interacts with the other main characters. I find the back-and-forth between all four of them highly entertaining, Elaine included. She's not my favorite character on the show; I pretty much like all four of them about the same. But Elaine adds to the show, IMO, simply because four quirky, funny characters are better than three.
2. I don't find her as horrifying as you do. Her faults, while easily recognizable, don't distract me.
3. And yes, sometimes, her unpleasantness actually adds to the humor value. I mentioned the sponge episode, which was dependent on Elaine's selfishness. Her selfishness didn't BOTHER me though, any more than it bothered me in Die Hard when someone got shot.
Paul
In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:
How did she hurt Ramon? All she did was leave.
Jerry: Ramon, this is my friend Elaine... Elaine: Yeah and I was just leaving.....................goodbye Jerry.
<How did she hurt Ramon? All she did was leave.
Jerry: Ramon, this is my friend Elaine... Elaine: Yeah and I was just leaving.....................goodbye Jerry.>
Jerry specifically asks Elaine if she will stay when Ramone comes up and Elaine responds in the affirmative. Then, when he arrives, she leaves. It wasn't Ramone she hurt but Jerry. She was deliberately mean and cruel and purposefully lied for the purpose of hurting Jerry.
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
In article , JCS21212 wrote:
Elaine was always off-kilter, even in early episodes...her latest "attitude adjustment" was explained rather well in the first 2 episodes this season, where she feels her life is pretty weak and she's gotta change things. (Jerry and George say the same thing, and that's how Georgie-boy ends up getting hitched to Susan...remember??) Most single folks who've reached a similar crisis in their 30's can identify with her new "control" attitude.
Susan has A LOT of negative qualities....#1 -- she's stupid enough to actually want to marry George. That in itself should be reason enough to think poorly of Susan. But also, she does that "Shmoopie, woopie" baby talk crap that really bugs George (and me...I *hate* that shit!). Plus, she decided that Jerry, Elaine, etc. were lame folks to hang around with. Hey, they like to hang out, go see movies, see jazz music, chow at the coffee shop...as Kramer said in the first episode this fall:
"So you think there's more to life than this? Well let me tell you something -- there isn't! What are you thinking, Jerry -- Marriage? A family? They're prisons, Jerry!!!"
Yeah...they could go hang-gliding or climb mountains....but they're in NYC!
Also, Susan is VERY bland compared to other women George has dated on the show.
My $.02....
YANGETY!!!
Elaine was always off-kilter, even in early episodes...her latest "attitude adjustment" was explained rather well in the first 2 episodes this season, where she feels her life is pretty weak and she's gotta change things. (Jerry and George say the same thing, and that's how Georgie-boy ends up getting hitched to Susan...remember??) Most single folks who've reached a similar crisis in their 30's can identify with her new "control" attitude.
Susan has A LOT of negative qualities....#1 -- she's stupid enough to actually want to marry George. That in itself should be reason enough to think poorly of Susan. But also, she does that "Shmoopie, woopie" baby talk crap that really bugs George (and me...I *hate* that shit!). Plus, she decided that Jerry, Elaine, etc. were lame folks to hang around with. Hey, they like to hang out, go see movies, see jazz music, chow at the coffee shop...as Kramer said in the first episode this fall:
"So you think there's more to life than this? Well let me tell you something -- there isn't! What are you thinking, Jerry -- Marriage? A family? They're prisons, Jerry!!!"
Yeah...they could go hang-gliding or climb mountains....but they're in NYC!
Also, Susan is VERY bland compared to other women George has dated on the show.
My $.02....
YANGETY!!!
******************************Everything prior to this is quoted*************************
I wouldn't pay two cents for your cents. George is a high ranking executive with the New York Yankees, is concerned about the well being of others, and has a geniune sense of civility. There is nothing wrong with marrying him and this certainly isn't a bad point. Susan is only bland compared to George's other girlfriends because his other girlfriends are all psycopaths, strange, or hideous. Furthermore, it is a good thing that Susan doesn't hang around with Elaine (so sane person would) and Jerry does talk during movies. No one like people that do that. Afterall you've paid ten dollars for a ticket to see the actors, not hear some jerk mouthing off. As for Susan's other "bad" points, she doesn't have any. I thought her line at the end of Two Worlds Collide was a classic and she definetly made the right choice.
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
JCS21212 ([email]) wrote:
Sorry to add to this preposterous thread, but...
What show have you been watching for the past five years or so? George civil? Having concern about the well-being of others?
Sure, don't you remember the episode where he was concerned that the Security guard had to stand all day long? He was concerned about him being uncomfortable so he buys him a rocking chair. Of course, the guy gets so comfy that he falls asleep and the store gets robbed... ;^)
Fred
George is neurotic, selfish, and weak. Why anyone as apparently normal as Susan would want to marry him is where you have to "temporarily suspend your disbelief". But the above sentence is going a little far.
Another reason why it's so surprising that he would land Susan.
This is the second time you've mentioned "talking during movies" as a serious turn-off. That's true if you're really at a movie, but if you're watching a sit-com it makes it really hard to know what the characters are thinking if you force the audience to try and read their minds.
Not sure I agree here... it's unfair to judge them poorly because they talked at the movie, since that was a necessary evil of being a TV show (the audience can't read their minds). Otherwise you'd have to criticize all of them for talking too damn loud in a public restaurant! ...GW
In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:
that
jerk
I
Can we drop this Susan thing already? It's getting anal. She's just a character. I can see defending a person that someone is close to or cares about in real life, but a character??? Come on.
In article , [email] (HighFlag) writes:
Yeah, Susan is pretty plain. Why is this guy arguing about this anyway, why must there be a Susan/Elaine war? Nothing better to do than to compare two characters?
<Yeah, Susan is pretty plain. Why is this guy arguing about this anyway, why must there be a Susan/Elaine war? Nothing better to do than to compare two characters?>
No, I don't have anything better than do, otherwise I would be doing it don't you think. Susan is far from plain and much more attractive than Elaine, who isn't attractive at all.
"If its any consolation, Apu, I've found that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead. Homer Simpson
In article , JCS21212 wrote:
This is completely ridiculous...both the argument AND JCS's position. Susan is definitely on the plain side, while Elaine is quite striking. Sure, there are things about Elaine that are unattractive (e.g., her neuroticism, the way she chews gum,...), but she is very pretty from a solely physical standpoint.
I only wish that *I* could be spongeworthy....:)
YANGETY!!
I couldn't agree more. I don't know how people can find her ugly. It really mistifies me. May be it's the fact that some people like a woman that is conservative and others (like me) like a woman that can let her hair down!
In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:
What? Are you blind?
<What? Are you blind?
I've been wondering the same thing about all of you. Given the great amount of visual evidence that we have to go on and given the fact that Elaine's appeal has slid steadily downward (more so in the personality department but she looks worse as well), I can't help but wonder if we are watching the same show.
"If its any consolation, Apu, I've found that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead. Homer Simpson
In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:
are
Elaine is better looking than Susan. Susan is pretty, but Elaine is sexy.
On 3 Jan 1996, JCS21212 wrote:
Vomit coloured hair? Who are you talking about? Elaine has BLACK hair. If anyone's hair is vomit-coloured, it's Susan! As I've already stated, I think Susan was quite attractive back in the days when she was a smart, well-dressed, distinguished NBC executive, and I find Elaine quite attractive also, especially in the recent seasons.
On Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:16:55 -0500, Jeffrey Aaron wrote:
the thing about susan's hair is that you can see the actual shape of her skull. i don't particularly enjoy looking at susan's skull.
In article , Jeffrey Aaron writes:
They are both cute! That is to me they're both cute...
If her hair is so unattractive then why does JLD do Clairol commercials? What is it you don't like about her hair? That it's curly? I know plenty of women who would kill for those curls. That she's a brunette? As a blonde, I think that JLD is quite attractive, and I _love_ the way she dresses, especially her shoes!
<If her hair is so unattractive then why does JLD do Clairol commercials? What is it you don't like about her hair? That it's curly? I know plenty of women who would kill for those curls. That she's a brunette? As a blonde, I think that JLD is quite attractive, and I _love_ the way she dresses, especially her shoes!>
As has been pointed out to me, Elaine's hair is black (a very dark and very fake black, I must say) not the brunette that it was once upon a time. I dislike both the style and color of her hair and it really detracts from her appearance. Her dress is also appalling but I don't know anything about her shoes. I haven't really ever noticed them (except that one episode where the chef wanted them to distract Russell).
"You've tried the best, now try the rest." Dr. Nick
On Fri, 5 Jan 1996 [email] wrote:
After JCS pointed it out, I did indeed notice that in the older episodes, Elaine's hair is a lighter colour than black. Something like brown. Watch any re-run and you'll see.
Dr. Nick or whatever his name is has a serious problem with Elaine. He claims she's rude and insensitive and so on. I have such news for you. First of all, television is supposed to be based a little on real life and in real life people aren't always caring and friendly. You're about to find out why I like Elaine is because I'm a lot like her. I don't care what in the hell you think, it's a damn comedy so laugh a little okay. She's evil because its funny and if you're too damn sensitive for it then grow up and get a back bone. I can't stand stupid people like you that probably never get out of the house anyway. People like you scare me, I can see why television and movie stars need body guard is because of psychos like you!!!!
Mi> Mi> Elaine is better looking than Susan. Susan is pretty, but Elaine is Mi> sexy.
Susan is not even pretty!!! Please!!!
[email]
... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
-=> Quoting Iceman to All <=-
Ic> From: [email] (Iceman) Ic> Subject: Re: Elaine Ugly?
Mi> Mi> Elaine is better looking than Susan. Susan is pretty, but Elaine is Mi> sexy. Ic> Ic> Susan is not even pretty!!! Please!!! Ic> Ic> [email]
I would have to say that neither of them is ugly. They are both pretty in their own ways.
... ...I don't know how you guys walk around with those things!!....Elaine ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
In article <"Oh Suzi-Q">, [email] (JCS21212) writes:
This is no comrade of mine, and Elaine is not evil.As I've stated in
previous posts,she is very much like the rest of us.Some good, some less
than good, but nowhere near approaching "evil" and no matter how many
times you state it, it doesn't make it so...
HF
"Just keep thinkin" Butch.That's what yer good at!"
-Sundance KidIn article [email] (JCS21212) writes:
I agree with whoever it was who suggested you start your own newsgroup. I thin k it would do you good. I know it would make me a very happy person.