Season finale

Pointless, flat and silly. And worst of all, not very funny. It was like they sat around the table and said, "Wouldn't it be a hoot if George was engaged?" So they did it. And then realized it would call for superior writing. The kind "Cheers" did regualrily. They looked around and, lo and behold, all the "Cheers" writers are doing "Frazier". So this is what they came up with.

What does everyone think of the latest episode?

Poor dead Lilly!!

I wonder where ole JCSC (or whatever his name was) is now. I'll bet he's REALLY bummed out about now....

1. In poor taste 2. Not really humourous for any episode, much less a season finale 3. As my wife said, "Geez, they could have least put her in a coma - that way George gets off the hook -for now."

Do you think Seinfeld writers were protesting poor wages?

Here's some trivia for you: "Susan" comes from the Hebrew for "lily." IMHO it wasn't an accident that he called her Lily as opposed to Mary or Jill or Donna or.....

--Susan

On 17 May 1996 22:17:17 GMT, [email] (Susan H. Golden ) wrote:

-Here's some trivia for you: "Susan" comes from the Hebrew for "lily." -IMHO it wasn't an accident that he called her Lily as opposed to Mary -or Jill or Donna or..... - ---Susan - GET OUT!!!!

Not to overanalyze or anything, but could Kramer have foreshadowed Susan's death by calling her Lily, seeing as this is traditionally a flower associated with death in many cultures? Any takers?

Tom

In article , [email] (Tom Sliva) writes:

Knowing how clever this show tends to be, I'ld have to agree with you

Another interesting thing to note:

If all those cheesy things in Hallmark stores are to be believed, Susan means lily (I think it's supposed to come from Hebrew or something).

A colleague of mine named Costanza (he's Italian and Catholic) claims that after seeing last night's episode he's convinced that George is Jewish.... He says that if George was Italian and didn't want his wife around any more, he'd put her feet in cement and dump her in a river!

Just thought you'd like to know...

--Susan

In [email] (Susan

FUNNY! Thanks for the laugh.

character was worth having around ... instead, their solution a flat, pointless and silly. And frankly, not very funny.

I'm back and probably for the last time (although I will answer some responses to this).

I have to admit that the below post made me laugh almost as much as the season finale did. :)

It's a tv show for cripes sake.

[email] (JCS21212) wrote:

My take on the season finale-yes it was a little unrealistic, even for Seinfeld. No one is that cavalier about death.

But it's tv, relax. Nobody on the show like Susan, and neither did I. Good riddance. I do think that it was a cop out, though. Now George doesn't have to deal with breaking up with her. They should have made her linger in a coma and play on that pre-nuptial agreement thing. Maybe George, being the sleaze that he is, would have wanted to marry her on her deathbed to get some of her money. Or something like that....

tt

Scene opens at Monks table; Jerry and George are talking.

Jerry: I thought she was dead.

George: (Waves hand in air) Nah...it didn't take.

(Pause, laughter.)

Jerry: You know ... (Introduces humorous non-sequitur)

Susan walks into Monks carrying shopping bags.

Susan: Hi guys!

George: (mumbling) hi.

Kramer walks into Monks, sees Susan, engages in shockingly funny reaction, then a prolonged pratfall that ends when he careens backward into the street, where he is hit by a wedding envelope truck and instantly killed. Cut to table, where George, Susan and Jerry just shrug, and start talking about the amusing non sequitur. Cut to Jerry doing nightclub act. Credits.

The only way to save the show is to kill it. It has outlived it usefulness and its appeal. The season finale destroyed any shred of comedic credibilitly that it retained after the two previous seasons of thoroughly mediocre episodes. Seinfeld managed to save itself this season by introducing the engagement storyline which gave all the characters fresh material to work with. Next season couldn't possibly any better than this season or even the last two. Seinfeld's ratings compare favorably with other shows only because the other three excellent comedies on TV (Home Improvement, Frasier, and Friends) are mired in poor time slots or are against heavy competition. Seinfeld has no competition and is the only decent show on Thursday nights. The show is done with. Like Rome in 470, Austria-Hungary in 1917, and the Soviet Union in 1990, it only appears strong from the outside. It is beset by rot and decadence within and is finished. I do like your idea for a season premiere but it won't happen.

You know not what you are talking about. There were many great episodes and many great moments in the last couple of seasons. I will admit there were a couple of clunkers, such as the bottle deposit, but I still think we are seeing something great in the making, comparable to the Marx brothers, I Love Lucy, etc.

Jeremy Scott (JCS21212) wrote:

-snip- <Seinfeld's ratings compare favorably with other shows only because the other three excellent comedies on TV (Home Improvement, Frasier, and Friends) are mired in poor time slots or are against heavy competition. >

Home Improvement??????????? Excellent?????? Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! Susan is gone, you knew she'd be gone, you're just pouting because she can't be brought back again. Seinfeld will go on, funny as ever, with or without her character and your adoration.

For those of you who are so appalled at the way they killed off Susan, please remember it's only TVland. You can go back to your happy little lives any time you want.

Cheers!

I don't personally like Home Improvement but the fact is before Frasier moved it was the #1 show on television. As for the finale, it was disgusting and tasteless and wasn't funny at all. The show ought to be cancelled and any person who respects its past episodes ought to stop watching.

"Kill all the Prussians and we'll have peace." A Saxon-German Soldier, 1914

YOU stop watching. Maybe we'll all get lucky and you'll stop posting your whinnings.

<YOU stop watching. Maybe we'll all get lucky and you'll stop posting <your whinnings.

I will stop watching, barring a miracle, but its doubtful I'll stop posting for some time. But thank you for complimentary message.

"Kill all the Prussians and we'll have peace." A Saxon-German Soldier, 1914

I am not appalled at the way they killed off Susan. I just think it was lame. They could have done so much more in terms of Geroge trying to get out of the wedding. But instead they chose the easy way out.

In article ,

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I agree. I think it would have been nice if she bumped her head and got amnesia. That way George would have to worry about her memory coming back, etc.

Maybe the actress wanted out or was a pain in the neck. Who knows? We can be pretty sure she won't come back.... unless!

He meets someone that looks JUST like her....

In article , [email] says...

[..snip..]

Just because it's a TV show, doesn't mean we can't criticize it. I agree that boycotting the show it too extreme, but most of us feel (as far as I can tell) that the level of disappointment in this episode is worth expressing. If you don't say anything, then nothing get's done--people don't know your opinion.

-Gary K.

You know JCS I have to agree with Kurtz on this one. One suggestion for you though. For the sake of your mental health (such as it is), NEVER watch "Old Yeller".

In [email] (Kurtz) writes:

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In article , [email] (JCS21212) wrote:

I think the above statement is quite a good sumnation of what was wrong with the finale...I was really offended also.

Never has the show's dire lack of emotional range been so obvious as during that episode. And considering what a huge role g-u-i-l-t plays in the comic structuring of the show, it's strange that it was suddenly thrown out. Very inconsistent....

G.B.

Important issue? Yeah..sure. This isn't ER, folks. Susan bit the big one to give George a way out. No big issue there. No one liked her so why should they have acted any different? It's not like they danced on the grave.

John

This is not the first time that the characters have dealt with death. I know that Susan was a semi-regular character, but what about the episode with the old woman who had a pony. Jerry's parents made him, or at least tried to make him feel guilty for making the pony remark. Jerry and Elaine went to the funeral and Elaine's main reason for going was to try to get the dead woman's husband's rent controlled apartment. I don't see much difference on how they reacted in either situation. I think the characters were showing completely who they are. ` Janine

In article , [email] says...

[..snip..]

Jeremy, don't you think that might be just a tad extreme? Many of us are disappointed in how the season finale turned out, so much that we might not even watch the last season. But the earlier episodes are great! Don't deprive yourself of watching them, just because the later episodes have been trashy.

-Gary K.

Yeah, it was cold all right. But isn't that the point about these characters? They are so self-absorbed and wrapped up in their own personal goals and pettiness that they cannot muster sympathy for others.

Think back to the time Jerry and Elaine attended a funeral of a friend and discussed Elaine's wardrobe the entire time. In this very same season finale Jerry admits to his narcissistic proclivities by 'fessing up to his desire for a coupling with himself! The fact that he and Elaine were vultures waiting out the inevitable a few weeks back is also consistent with their obsession with their own little lives and desires.

I'm not deriding the show for this fact; this is what makes it funny for me. It's just that I would not want any of these people for my friends. Kramer might be the exception; occasionally we see a concerned streak surface. Any concern we see from George is contrived or stems from his own self-loathing instilled guilt.

Just one opinion in a sea of.......

GC "a legend in his own mind, in his spare time" Charles Mawhirter Acadmic Program Coordinator College of Human Ecology The Ohio State University 201 Campbell Hall/1787 Neil Ave. Cols., OH 43210 (0) 614/292-5568 (FAX) 614/292-7536 e-mail: [email] OR [email]

I agree that the characters are supposed to be somewhat cold and self-absorbed, but in last night's episode they were completely inhuman. Their reactions to Susan's death showed absolutely no hint of reality whatsoever. What were the writers thinking? I can imagine a dozen scenarios in which Susan and George could break up and it would actually be *funny*. I ended up just sitting there with my mouth hanging open at the end of the show.

It's not that she died and they made light of it that bothered me so much, it's supposed to be a comedy and they've done that before (like the show with Peterman's mother, that was a riot). But that these characters showed absolutely no feeling whatsoever. Despite their selfishness, we're supposed to *like* them. I didn't like them very much last night.

Gets my vote for worst episode.

Michelle

In article , [email] (Charles Mawhirter) wrote:

On 17 May 1996 15:34:27 GMT, [email] (Michelle Darrah) was urged to share:

	not a great episode but a bunch of some very funny
	lines.  susan was never very likable, imo.
	i don't see her evoking much sentiment.

I SET MY VCR TO RECORD ON THE WRONG DAY! Can someone please tell me what happened! I can't believe I missed it! Arrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.........

the season finale was not just bad, it was tasteless and offensive.

In article ,

That's what made it a great episode, it was tasteless and offensive. :)

I loved that doctor's voice. At first I thought he might be Ken Nordine (the guy who did the flying Levi's commericals in the 70s), but he'd be a lot older if he were still alive. He also sounded like the announcer on Rocky and Bullwinkle.

On 17 May 1996, Beth Goldstein wrote:

to relax and get my mind off the horrors of the world and then Susan is dead and no one cares???????????????? Bad move .

I agree,it had to be intentional.It just wasn't funny.What were the writers going for ,just shock value?

[email](Beth Goldstein) wrote:

I agree with your comments ! This show has been very funny and clever in the past. IMO George was the funniest character on the show until las night. In the season ending ep, his character really becomes pathetic and pretty much a loser. I am saddened by what people find funny these days. Why not have Susan live but break off the marriage because she is angry at him for buying the cheap invitations.

As if the show wasn't offensive enough, they had to add the little segment at the end (while the credits were rolling) of George calling up Marisa for a date to or after (I am not sure which one) the funeral.

This show is an insult to its viewers.

In [email] (Gus) writes:

Break it off because of the cheap invitations? Boy, that would be an original idea. I thought this episode was the funniest one of the season. I laughed hystarically when George called Marisa.

The thing that has made Seinfeld so much better than other shows is its originality. That has suffered in the past couple of seasons because so many other shows are now doing exactly the same thing making it old. This episode was a return to pieces of humor that no other show could get away with.

Anyone offended by that episode needs to get a life and a sense of humor.

In [email] (Brian Wren) writes:

i can understand why people might be offended by that show, but regardless it was still a greatly funny episode. one of the few shows this year that contained true seinfeld dialogue... my problem with susan's death is that george's reaction to it doesn't seem to fit his character...but cmon, susan isn't a real person. who cares..its the greatest show of our time.

mike

You know, a lot of people have been saying that they were offended by George' reaction to Susan's death. Well, what did they expect, he obviously didn't love her, hell he didn't even like her, they had nothing in common (remember all the scenes when they were alone), George went after Susan in a moment of weekness because he was afraid of being alone for the rest of his life, and has regreted it ever since. He felt no affection for her, why would he greatly grieve over her death. At least he didn't start laughing out loud or gloating, I think he was pretty much in shock, I know I was, I mean it was such a ridiculous way to die, who would have thought that Susan would die by trying to lick 200 cheap envelopes that had a toxic adhesive. It isn't exactly the way that most people check out. And if you really think about it, Susan had to die. It was the final thing for George to do to her, think of everything else that has happened to Susan in the time she has been with George, and yet she stayed with him, she was just pushing the odds to far, death was the only thing left for George to do to her. And okay it was rather tasteless, but so was the death of Russel at the end of the two part episode about Jerry and George's pilot, that was pretty much an unnecessary death as well, and it ended a great episode in a great season on a rather depressing note. Look at it this way, Susan went out in style, she died better than anyone else on this show ever has, and the facial expressions on her face while she was licking the envelopes were classic. And in all other areas it was a pretty funny episode. I will miss Susan, I would have kinda liked to see her and George together, and I am sure they could have worked the plot in a way that wouldn't have required killing her, but it happened, get over it, life goes on. Rest in peace Susan.

Brendan W. Guy

Brendan Guy wrote:

I think that was the most rational post in favor of the episode I've seen. Brendan didn't resort to name calling or belittling everybody who was shocked or offended by Susan's death. While I don't agree with the way the the situation was resolved, I applaud Brendan for taking the high road in his response.

Monty

How I envy those of you with valid opinions about the season finale. I was out of town and set up the VCR to tape it, but since my wife was home I didn't use the "good" VCR. I used an older model with a peculiar tuning mechanism, and apparently it got bumped because my copy of the finale was fuzzy and in B&W with static on the soundtrack. I watched it anyway, and I assumed that the envelope glue just made Susan sick enough so that the wedding date would be postponed again.

If I remember correctly, none of the secondary supporting cast (Newman, Uncle Leo, ...) were in the finale. True?

GR

i really wasnt offended or surprised by georges reaction to susans death, but i was surprised that she died..i sat in front of the tv with my mouth open for five minutes after i heard the doctors news. i definetely think the writers could have come up with a more inventive way of getting rid of susan and solving georges problems.

[email] (Brian Wren) wrote:

It's nice that you think people who disagree with you don't have a life or a sense of humor. I hope we get the opportunity to hear what else is wrong with us in your future posts.

Monty

In [email] (Brian

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I totally agree with the comment immediately above. This is just TV folks, its not real. The key to Seinfeld is not just the bizarre situations these people find themselves in but in its originality and the fact that all four of the main characters involved are completely self-centered. This show demonstrated all of those qualities in spades.

No one, myself included, thought that the show would dare kill off a character as prominant as Susan. So much so that it never even entered my mind as a possibility until the Doctor told George she was gone. The reaction of George, Jerry, Elaine and Kramer was then totally focused on how this affected themselves, not about "poor Susan" the way normal, well-balanced people would. The fact that it offended so many regular folks on this newsgroup (to the extent those of us who post on a newsgroup are normal) is exactly the reaction they wanted. It was daring, and I thought it hilarious.

It's not like this is the first time the characters have demonstrated how shallow they are. Geez, George does it week in and week out. Their reaction was true to form for the "made-up" and "screwed-up" characters they really are. I am sure that Seinfeld and Larry David wanted just the disgusted reaction they are getting, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Poor Susan! She was doomed from the first day George walked into NBC to
pitch the show about nothing.   We looked at eachother in disbelief when
the doctor told George the shocking news.  "Please don't laugh or give the
doctor a high five that will destroy this show forever!"  I thought.  "How
are they going to recover from this plotline and come back next year to
their fans?"  Well I think they did a good job of it really.  You know why
I love Seinfeld, the show never lies to us, the characters never stray
from their bottom line basic anti-social behavior.   So many sitcoms make
their characters do things their characters would never do like the people
on Friends or Murphy Brown.  George used to say "God would never let me be
happy."  And, for once I believe him.

I was waiting for George to say "I'm out" When he heard tha Susan was dead. I'm glad that they didn't go there. janine

[email] (Andrea Barol) wrote:

Ten bucks says Susan won't even be mentioned next season. ;)

• Rusty "will debate for food" Meathook

In article ,

Haha..l you JUST REALIZED, based on this episode, that George is "pathetic and pretty much a loser"? He's always been that way!

His calling up Marisa Tomei was great.. perfectly in character (he did dream of her earlier this season). I didn't find it any more offensive than the show's past treatment of the mentally and physically handicapped, of people with different religions and beliefs and of different races.

I really loved Jenine Garofalo as Jerry's new girl and having George call up Marisa Tomei at the and was great! I cracked up.

The real problem with the final show is that it didn't have Newman(hellllooo Newman). How could the writers have kept Newman out? Don't they know that Newman is a great character played by a terrific actor? Maybe it will turn out that Susan faked being dead and eloped with Newman.

In article , [email] (Gus) writes:

I'm not insulted at all. What the hell do you want? The Waltons? Cosby? These are self-absorbed people here. They're not saints. When Jerry said "I hate myself", it was the most daring thing I'd seen in a sitcom in years. George smoking those cigarettes? Beautiful. I thought the show was hysterical, and definitely a classic. Turn about fair play, they call it, when one person gets off the hook, and another gets hooked.

Whoever said the writers didn't think much of Susan had his head up his tuchas. They got rid of Mr. Pitt, and I loved him, but supporting cast members get written in and out of this show all the time. Susan was great--I loved her scornful, belittling attitude toward George, driving his insecurities into a frothy panic. So they dumped her. She's not in the core cast, so whaddaya want?

If you're going to kill off a character in a sitcom, you might as well make it a freak accident. Life is funny that way.

Stake your high moral ground for alt.righteous.indignation

In article , [email] (Mitchell Virchick P225) writes:

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I agree. The total absurdity of Susan's death and the even worse absurdity of everyone's reaction is what makes Seinfeld so unique. Never in a million years would you expect a character, even a supporting one, to *die* on Seinfeld, so that's exactly what happened. The show never ceases to amaze me with the weird, totally bizaare (sp?) twists they are willing to incorporate. In my humble opinion, this was one of the best episodes. The rest of the show was hilarious. My only problem was with the turnaround at the end. The switch between Jerry's situation and George's was a little formulaic. But all in all, I thought it was great.

Rachel

Oh shutup! It's not one of the worst. Look at the ratings.

Don't read the following, unless you want to know how season finale ends...

Jerry does a George, proposing to a woman he meets who is just like him because he is feeling lonely. But George's fiancee dies from licking old envelopes for their wedding invitations. There you have it.

I am glad to see the tremendous amount of discussion about the Seinfeld shocking season finale. I thought it was tasteless

<I loved that doctor's voice. At first I thought he might be Ken Nordine (the guy who did the flying Levi's commericals in the 70s), but he'd be a lot older if he were still alive. He also sounded like the announcer on Rocky and Bullwinkle.>

I think it was the doctor from the episode where the junior mint gets stuck in the artist who paints triangles.