Film Noir

There have been several Film Noir references in Seinfeld. Right now I can come up with two:

Jerry and George interrogate Newman after Kramer splits for the coast.

Jerry and Elaine scheme to come up with an explanation about how the sofa disappeared when he filled in for the Doorman.

Any otheres?

In , kmsimmons writes:

Film Noir--film in a gritty urban setting that deals with dark or violent passions in a downbeat way. An example is "Double Indemnity" starring Barbara Stanwyck and Fred MacMurray before he bacame America's favorite Dad. More recent example are the Tarantino films.

What might be intended here: scenes from Seinfeld with the kind of dialogue you expect from crime films of the thirties and forties, smart-alecky, rapid-fire, lowlife-slangy, and all that. I doubt that lowlifes, criminals, and police detectives actually talked that way, but who knows? Maybe they picked it up from the movies.....

As to exact definition of "film noir", forget it. The vague idea is that the characters are having a hard time economically, are on the edge of the illegal and immoral, are depressed and hopeless, fall in love, betray themselves and each other, get caught, die, or generally lose out. Noir is french for "dark", and the black-and-white film technique usually emphasized shadows, night scenes, low lighting, plain clothing, dingy rooms..... hey, I'm sorry you asked.....

But I'm glad you answered. Thanks.

So, the scene where Elaine and Kramer go see Newman about
getting rid of the dog that keeps her up at night, would that
be considered a 'film noir' scene?
--------------------------------------------
             [email]
(Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)
          (Remove XXXX to reply)

Ratboy, I am shocked that YOU needed help understanding something. But to paraphrase the late great Senator Sam Ervin, "I may not be able to define "Film Noir", but you'll know it when you see it". Mirsk Out my friend.

Yes. Another example is in "the Switch" where George & Jerry come up with a plan where Jerry can switch from his current girlfriend to her roomate. The big city music, the dissolving scenes at Monk's to signify the passage of time, overhead shots of George (or Jerry) crumpling up napkins and tossing them on dirty plates, these are touches of Noir. Also the scene wher Newman meets Babs Kramer on a street.

Noir is a film style where the cinematography is heavily shadowed, this was inspired by German Expressionist film from the 30's, and the hero will often be a hard boiled Sam Spade lone wolf kind of guy, maybe a little like Bookman though he's definitely taken from Jack Webb's Dragnet character, who's probably paranoid. Noirs often use voice over narratives and jazzy musical scores. Plots tend to be fatalistic.

Examples of Film Noir:

That current B&W TV ad that has Bill Cosby acting like a detective talking to a sexy woman, he's probably selling her Jello pops, is a Noir homage.

Tons of old movies like Crossfire, Maltese Falcon (anything based on books by Dashiell Hammett, Raymond Chandler, or James M. Cain), Sunset Blvd (as well as many other movies by German emigre film director Billy Wilder like Double Indemnity that other posters keep mentioning), and many many more. Newer Noirs would include Taxi Driver and Body Heat. Casablanca is a Noir romance/war intrique movie.

"Watching the Detectives" is a Noir rock song.

Noir, it's a state of mind bordering on a state of despair.

I loved your explanation.. well said! "state of mind bordering on state of despair".. hmmmm

You're not dense; it's practically died as a modern art form and thus has to be sought out. "Double Indemnity" (remade as Body Heat) from 1943 or 44 is a superb example, as is "Out of the Past" from 1947, with Robert Mitchum (TCM ran it just before he died.) As far a great example of film noir dialogue, Fred McMurray does a superb job in "Double Indemnity": "You why I did it? For the money and the girl. And in the end, I didn't get the money, and I didn't get the girl."

kmsimmons skrev i meldingen ...

In the episode where Elaine has a noisy dog in her apartment building, the negotiations with Newman would fall into this category. There is also a great follow-up at the end, when the police comes to Newman, and he just says: "What took you so long".

Any discussion of Film Noir and Seinfeld should begin and end with hard-boiled Bookman of the NYPL. A regular comedic tour de force. He pulls no punches ...asks no quarter....and none is given....yeah sure...I've seen your type before ...well while yoor thinking about that ..think about this...

Isn't Film Noir what one watches whilst drinking Pinot Noir ????? homerr

[email] wrote in message ...

no

your

Could the episode where Elaine helps George slip his boss a "mickey" be considered film noir?

No. Noir refers more to style than plot substance.