I have never been to New York, but that doesn't mean I don't understand George, Elaine, Kramer and Jerry's behavior. Contrary to New Yorker ethnocentric beliefs, people do exist outside of "The City" and we, too, have relationship troubles, deal with annoying people, frequent Chinese restaurants, feel insecure, go to therapists, know how to parallel park, and eat rye bread. MOST of the themes on Seinfeld are human universals, not specific to New York. A few themes have been specific to a certain culture - like "The Pen", but most have not.
It's insulting for you to assume we "don't get it".
This is pretty funny. I posted my message *because* people were saying they "didn't get it."
I left New York when I was two, so believe me, I know there's life outside of it. But do you really think that someone raised on their family's farm in Kentucky (I know of such a person) is going to act and speak like George Costanza and his family? I don't think so...
What's with everyone's obsession with having lived in New York, or talking like the characters, to be able to find Jerry's family funny. I feel bad because I was the first one to say Jerry's family was totally UNFUNNY...I had no idea it would result in a major sociological thesis by everyone. No, I never lived in New York, and I don't speak like any of the characters, but that's not the reason I find Jerry's parents unfunny. (They're just NOT!) Everyone else on the show is funny, so how do you explain that? After all, I never lived in New York, so I couldn't possibly find anyone on the show funny, right? I've also never lived on Ork, nor do I speak like Mork, but somehow I found that show funny. I live in Milwaukee, but never found Laverne and Shirley particularly funny. Where you live has nothing to do with it. Gary
Well I think we bashed you way too much and I believe I did it too. While I was mildly put off by the original post, I do think there's something to what you say. For example, I don't always get all the jokes on Absolutely Fabulous because sometimes they joke about things that are going on in England that I know nothing about. The way that George's and Jerry's families behave does not seem unusual to me. I don't know if it's because I lived in "upstate" NY for the first 26 years of my life or not. I just don't think the episodes with Jerry's parents are funny.
Let me ask you this, as one former New Yorker to another. Since leaving NY and moving to the south, I have heard an expression that I never heard while I lived in NY -- "in a New York minute" to mean fast. For example, if you tell her a secret, it will be all over the office in a New York minute." Have you ever heard that?
:But do you really think that someone raised on their family's farm in :Kentucky (I know of such a person) is going to act and speak like :George Costanza and his family? I don't think so...
No, probably not, but they don't need to *act* like the characters to appreciate the show. They only need to *relate* to the situation and/or know someone like George. Assuming Joe Kentucky leaves the farm at least once in his lifetime, he very well could meet a George, say, buying pies on the side of the road...
No, they don't need to act like the characters to appreciated the show, but they need exposure to people who do. If Joe Kentucky meets a George, then he might think the parents on Seinfeld are funny. If he never meets anyone like them, he with think the parents on the show are just plain annoying, not funny. You have proven Jen's and my point, by granting that one needs exposure(buying pies or whatever) to understand the parents.
The things that you say you have, such as "relationship troubles, dealing with annoying people, frequenting Chinese restaurants, feeling insecure, etc." are NOT what Jen(and I) are talking about. We are not saying that people outside of New York or that aren't Jewish can't understand Seinfeld. We are saying that they usually can't see the humor in the PARENTS on Seinfeld. Have you been reading all the postings on this thread? We are talking about the PARENTS. No one has ever said that non-New Yorkers can't understand Seinfeld; that point is clearly disproven by the makeup of this News group. We are talking about the specific shows with Jerry's parents, and have generally found that non-New Yorkers or Non-Jews don't usually think that the PARENTS on Seinfeld are funny.
I'm laughing! Didn't you see I was asking a question in the original post?? Kind of like saying, "Gee, I wonder what men think of the comic strip "Cathy." You're a man - what's your opinion?"
"Insulting and woefully arrogant"! That is so funny!
On that note, I have officially said the last thing I care to about that subject! (And I know you're relieved! :) )
Inherent in your question is the implication that we, the peons of the hinterland, lack the insight necessary to fully appreciate the humor of Seinfeld (Of course we appreciate the show--otherwise, we wouldn't be reading posts in the Seinfeld newsgroup).
Thus, your question, "can people from other regions appreciate the show as much?", is more than a question. Whether you admit it or not, it is an insult. To claim otherwise is folly.
I haven't had anything to do with this thread, and I'm not from New York, but I gotta say that this "implication" sounds a heck of a lot like your own inferiority complex. The show is set in New York. The characters are quintessentially New York. Hence it is entirely possible that non NY-ers wouldn't "get it" the same way as native NY-ers. No insult, no "implication". NY-ers don't always "get", say, "Hee Haw", but that doesn't "imply" that NY-ers are all technocratic brutes, incomprehensive of the more regional types of humor. I say you should stop thinking of NY as the epitome of anything - it's just a city/state you aren't in.
OK, rebut my assertion with name-calling. You know little about me, but you refer to my "own inferiority complex". Such absurdity is is indicative of your credibility.
In the same breath, you call the characters of Seinfeld "quintessentially New York" and later say "stop thinking of NY as the epitome of anything". Contradiction, what, what?
Isn't it entirely possible for humor to be, at some level, independent of its setting? IMO (dare I include the H, I might further reveal my deep-seated inferiority complex), Seinfeld's funniest moments are borne of the character's neuroses/psychoses and the show's well-written, crafty dialogue: neither of which is tied exclusively to NY.
I implore you to provide one *specific* example, parental themes aside, of Seinfeld humor whose value is contingent on exclusive NY culture--I have hundreds of examples to the contrary.
BTW, don't they drive their cars an awful lot for being "quintessentially New York"?
Here are several examples of NY culture shown in Seinfeld. This is not to say it doesn't occur in any large city like SF, DC or Chicago, but NYC is more representative.
It's not name-calling. I'm merely stating that when someone suggests that something may not mean as much to one group as to another, to infer that there is an implication of superiority or inferiority is over-sensitive. Without adjectives or adverbs to suggest (ie. had someone said that "those who aren't NY-ers are too hick to understand", that would give good cause for offense. Yes, exaggeration.) an intention of elitism, all there is is difference.
Uh. No. Quintessential merely means "the most typical representation of a quality, state, etc." or "an extract of a substance containing its principle in its most conceentrated form." The Seinfeld gang are a typical extract of NY-ers. How does that suggest that NY-ers are any better than anyone else? The CHARACTERS are quintessentially New York. I do not suggest that NEW YORK is quintessential of anything. And even if I did, that still does not suggest superiority. If I'd said that Jeff Foxworthy is quintessentially redneck, would that imply to you that I meant everyone else was inferior to rednecks? I do not know how you percieve a contradiction. What I said was that it appears to be *you* who believes that NY residency confers superiority.
I agree. I don't know how many people have ever been marooned, yet millions found Gilligan's Island hilarious. I've never been to New York, and I find Seinfeld to be brilliant. I believe, though, that the original point of the thread was someone wondering whether non NY-ers could appreciate it as *deeply* as NY-ers. In the same way as white people can not be as *deeply* offended at racial epithets as their targets can.
As I said, I find Seinfeld brilliant. But perhaps for the *total* experience, you have to have lived some of it. Perhaps. Please note, that I'm not saying that those who have lived it are "better" than those of us who haven't. I confess that I don't understand why people are so livid at the concept that some people might possibly "get" Seinfeld more than they do.
Truth be told, I'm not even saying that there are any examples, or that the issue is true. My point was merely that crying "elitism!" at the suggestion someone from NY might possibly have a deeper comprehension of the humor is from within the "cryer", not from the "suggester".
I couldn't say. They do appear to have an appropriate number of driving difficulties, though.
Please lower the defenses. I really don't think that anyone is personally attacking you. Even my post meant "you" in a generic "people who are upset" kind of way. I haven't seen anyone suggest that New Yorkers are better than non-New Yorkers, but some folks are getting really riled up. Re-read that racial epithet thing I wrote. As a white person, I am mortified and appalled when I hear racial taunts. But I'm sure that my horror pales next to that of the person being taunted. In a smaller, less important way, that's the point of this thread. Maybe, just maybe, a New Yorker has a deeper level of comprehension of some of the humor. I don't know for sure, but surely we shouldn't be so upset at the suggestion.
I actually think their parents are all rigth. george's mom's voice is really irritating, so it's funny when she yells at him. Sorry if I'm missing something else here that's suppossed to be funny, please don't start attacking me if I seem like yet another clueless non-New Yorker, because this particular subject seems to provoke strong feelings among certain people.
I'm not Jewish. I'm not from New York (thank god) and I think the parents are hilarious! Lets not be so quick to judge, its a TV show by the way. Albeit the best show around. Stop the elitist attitude.
I was not referring to just Jerry's parents, I was referring to the lack of understanding by some of how anyone who was not from New York could enjoy the *entire* show - not just Jerry's parents. Of course, as with any TV show, film, etc. there are going to be bits/jokes/lines that some people will miss. This does not mean they can't appreciate the whole story.
Kirk, I guess we'll have to go into therapy to resolve our deep seeded complexes, what's the name of Elaine's friend? You know, the one George is seeing...
Right on Kristen! To add to your argument and further humiliate the person
whose post you were responding to...consider this, Seinfeld is a hit in
dozens of foreign countries. In Australia the show is on the major
network in prime time seven times a week. To my way of thinking, proof
that the Australians Seinfans "get it" more than Americans is the issue of
Susan's death. I have been taking a poll on my Reality Tour. "How many
thought that Susan's death was funny, raise your hands?" My guesstimate
is that Susan's death didn't fly with at least 25% of the American
audience. Amongst Americans in this news group it was probably more than
30%. My Reality Tour has received a lot of publicity in Australia and
subsequently a lot of Australian have been guests on the tour. I have yet
to find one of them that didn't think Susan's death was hilarious.
And now a moment of shameless self promotion. I am assuming that most of the readers of this news group know of me and Kramer's Reality Tour. Just in case you don't, I'm kenny kramer the "real" Kramer the actual person that the character Cosmo Kramer is based on. Along with my partner Bobby Allen Brooks I am the host a three hour theatrical, multi-media bus tour through the world of Seinfeld. It is called Kramer's Reality Tour.
http://www.bway.net/~kramer/RealityTourText.html
is where you can get all kinds of information. Now here is some good news. You no longer have to be in New Yawk to go on the tour as I have turned the presentation into a stage show that I will be bringing to colleges, theaters and Learning Annex type venues in the fall. I will continue to do the tour in New Yawk on the weekends but I will be traveling around the country mid week. I hope many of you will have an opportunity to attend. If you're a Seinfan I guarantee you will have a great time. In the course of all this traveling I hope to meet some of the people whose names I have been reading here for the past two years. If you have the opportunity to see me please do introduce yourself from alt.tv.seinfeld. Hope to see ya. Cheers! kenny kramer
I totally agree with Kristen. I am an Indian (Asian, not Cherokee or Sioux) Student in the USA and i think Seinfeld is the most original sitcom on TV. Most of the themes are indeed human universals, not just specific to the Western World, let alone the USA or NYC. Every day I see the show, I can associate myself with (atleast some of the eccentricities of) Elaine, George and Jerry. I am a normal human being and have nothing in common with Kramer though :-) I do not get some jokes at times, but they are not because i am not from NYC, but because the joke usually refers to a person. e.g., George :, "Blah Blaah....." Jerry :"Who are u ? MR.XYZ ?"
Laughter from the audience....
Now I can understand this joke only when I know who Mr. XYZ is and what he is famous (or infamous, as the case usually is) for. Since most of these XYZ's referred to are Americans who hardly ever make it to international media, i find it tough to follow the joke.
These are the only instances when I really do not understand a joke. And, I am not from the city......
Kenny, I'm from the city of Sydney, in Australia. The show is shown here FIVE nights per week, not SEVEN. Repeats are shown mondays to fridays at 7.00p.m. with one new episode shown at 7.30p.m. on thursdays.
Over here, Susan hasn't died yet! Two weeks ago we saw the episode where George tried to smuggle a loaf of bread into her parents' apartment, last week there was no mention of Susan at all, thus no mention of her death.
I can't reconcile this with my local knowledge of the episodes aired here to date. Susan hasn't died yet.
However, you are totally correct in saying that the Seinfeld is very popular here.