Poster complains about excessive trading/selling threads in the newsgroup, arguing they should have their own marketplace and wants the group to focus on discussing the show instead.
Listen everybody, this is a newsgroup about Seinfeld. I thought it would be nice to talk about the show. But it seems like this place is becoming a market for seinfeld-VHS/CD/DVD dealers. Right now there are TEN (10!) threads about trading/buying/selling episodes in this group. I suggest you traders create your own group as a marketplace instead of ruining this group. I don't wanna buy stuff in this group, I wanna chat about Seinfeld, discuss the show. Now am I the only one who is getting annoyed here?
Just keep in mind that ten threads about trading really is ridiculous.
I totally agree with you! I don't post here very often, but I read evey day, but on the the other hand I guess I shouldn't complain about what people are posting since I don't contribute any sein-talk myself. I will try to though...
On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:28:42 +0200, "Wouter Visser" wrote:
You're a rabid anticapitalite!
Seriously, there has to be a way to fix this; I'm getting sick of the salespitches myself.
Without all out forbidding these posts (although a case could be made, I believe it is illegal to sell copyrighted material without permission), could we limit them to one single ongoing thread? Could there be a special prefix in the subject line (P[ushers], B[ootleggers], something like that)? Is there something in the original charter of a.t.s?
That really is the best way. If we could nicely asked all those people selling illeg^H^H^H^H who wish to trade legally-obtained eps of the show to just preface their subject line with, say, the letters FST (for sale and trade), those of us who have no wish to read the posts can just block posts with those letters in the subject line.
What say you guys? Come on, give us a break...please.
i like the seinfeld talk too, and if there are posts you dont like (about sales, etc) how about just skipping over them instead of complaining about them and creating more posts that noone wants to read..lol?
Well I've posted in here numerous times regarding I want to complete my seinfeld collection and can offer trades. If this offends you, I apologize. I do not desire to profit, just to obtain the shows in which I enjoy so much.
My only suggestion to you and the others is to block sender our e-mail so messages from people like me will not download into your news browser.
Sam
"Wouter Visser" wrote in message news:9i1q4g$sc2$[email]...
How about a thread called "episode trades"? Wouter had a problem with the fact that there are 10 threads on the same topic, basically. Wouldn't it be easier to limit the posts to one "trading post", no pun intended? That might be easier for everyone.
Well Sam, I could block your posts but than I'd miss any contributions of you or anyone else I've blocked in an on-topic-discussion. I mean, we're all Seinfeld-fans! I still think it would be nice if someone (perhaps Seinfeldonvhs/cd/dvd) could create a separate episode-trading-group. I don't have a clue on how to do this, maybe the original founder of a-t-s could help us out here...
Sounds like a good idea. If I recall correctly, creating a new newsgroup in the alt.* heirarchy isn't very complex; you just need someone to send a control message announcing it. For more info, check out the alt.config newsgroup.
Sounds like a good idea. If I recall correctly, creating a new newsgroup in the alt.* hierarchy isn't very complex; you just need someone to send a control message announcing it. For more info, check out the alt.config newsgroup.
Here are some good links:
Proposing a newsgroup: http://www.alt-config.org/ http://www.faqs.org/usenet/alt/ http://www.gweep.bc.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html http://nylon.net/alt/newgroup.htm
Control messages: ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/CONFIG/README
I doubt it would fly, being that trading and selling episodes are illegal I think (trading)? People who trade/sell episodes do not want to create an advertised alt group that will alert affiliates of the media (sony) to it.
In my opinion, this group is the best place for them to post for trade and sell, after all, this is a group for all seinfeld lovers, not just people who want to discuss what episode krammer said this, and why did Jerry do that, etc.
I hate when a group of people tries to censor others! If they do not like what "subjects" they see, simply skip the messages. Is that so hard to do? Or are all these messages overwhelmingly strenuous on your eyes?
Just my 500,000 pesos worth
"John Twernbold" wrote in message news:_wa17.133009$[email]...
LOL, you need to look at the list of groups on your news server. There are hundreds and hundreds of very popular binary groups devoted to bands, tv shows, movies, CD images of Playstation games, etc. etc.
And it's the opinion of many others here that this is *not* the best place. The charters of most discussion newsgroups like this specifically prohibit such advertisements. If you're new to Usenet and would like some links to FAQs which explain why advertisements are discouraged (or even forbidden), let me know.
Is it so hard for bootleggers to find a more appropriate newsgroup? Or, failing that, to add some type of code to their message subjects (like [FS] or [FT], for example)? That would at least allow people to set up their news readers to automatically filter out such messages (or alternatively, to filter out everything but those messages).
This isn't a case of censorship. Rather, it's about keeping a newsgroup "on topic". If you want to discuss 18th-century French poetry, no one is stopping you. However, you should really find a more appropriate venue for that, and such messages posted here will be met with disapproval. Same with advertisements. This has nothing to do with censorship.
"John Twernbold" wrote in message news:t1e17.115839$[email]...
So what the hell does that have to do with trading/selling seinfeld episodes? Are you actually that dumb to think any other alt group would be better to trade/sell "seinfeld" episodes then alt.tv.seinfeld?
place.
Well it's the opinion of many others in here that people cannot censor any discussions, no matter what the discussions topic involves. I think you need to redefine the definition of the word "Discussion".
*lmao*
WHAT? a more appropriate newsgroup? Is it so hard for YOU to skip over the messages that are obviously so unappealing to you?
[FS]
And this will lead into a continuous battle of having to alert the newbies of the "censored code". This in itself will create more bandwidth waste then the people who are simply asking where/how/ can they obtain seinfeld episodes.
DONT READ THE SUBJECTS THAT ARE UNAPPEALING TO YOU! Case closed! Un-moderated newsgroup! Would you like to me send you some links on the etiquette of "un-moderated" newsgroups?
"on
Where/How to obtain "SEINFELD" episodes is ON TOPIC! Please do not try to censor what discussions are appropriate.
with
Disapprove all you want, obviously that's just your hang up and the others who try to censor discussions that are too lazy to skip over the subjects they don't like.
*You* were the one who made the claim that "People who trade/sell episodes do not want to create an advertised alt group". That's obviously false, as proven by the existence and popularity of all those other advertised alt groups designed for trading bootlegs.
C'mon, if we're going to have a discussion, you need to be able to remember (or at least re-read) what you wrote the day before...
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change Usenet. Only certain types of discussions are allowed in each newsgroup, which is why there are over 30,000 different newsgroups. If you cannot understand that, I don't know how else to explain it to you.
One created for the purpose of trading Seinfeld episodes. Go back and read my original post you replied to, where I mentioned the procedure for creating such a group.
This has already been answered in the previous message. If you don't understand the purpose of newsreader filters and how they work, check your software's help files.
It has nothing to do with moderation status. I suspect that you don't understand what "moderated" means, since even unmoderated newsgroups have etiquette rules INCLUDING a prohibition on advertising. Check out this Usenet guide which mention this, if you still don't believe me: http://www.landfield.com/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
Notice how one of the main rules is: "Do not use Usenet as an advertising medium."
However, advertising *is* allowed in certain groups devoted solely to commercial postings such as the "biz" hierarchy, which is why we're discussing creating such a group. Even in newsgroups where's it's allowed (not including this one), you still need to indicate mark your advertisement as such in the Subject: "Clearly mark your article as a product announcement in the subject" http://www.landfield.com/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/ In the event we do allow FS/FT posts in here, having them clearly marked as such is not only a good idea, it's a Usenet standard. What part of this don't you understand?
Again, I understand that you're probably new to Usenet, but there are guidelines which govern these forums. If advertisements are not allowed, then it's not up to the spammers to post anything they want without consequences (read your AUP). I've seen newsgroups (like AGHLTFC) destroyed by a flood of off-topic posts. If this forum is overrun by advertisements, then it's possible that no one will come here to discuss Seinfeld any more because the "signal-to-noise ratio" will be so low--people generally unsubscribe to groups if it takes too much effort just to skip all the OT posts. I'm not saying that will happen, merely that it may be worthwhile to take a few steps to avoid the possibility. And when any newsgroup is so divided in its purpose, consideration should be given to the idea of creating a new group.
I don't know why you feel you're being repressed, but that's certainly not what's going on here. A new newsgroup for selling/trading would benefit both parties. The alternative of including Subject labels is also good for both parties, since it allows people to easily filter out the messages in which they're not interested. All this discussion is simply about making the Seinfeld newsgroup(s) a better place.
"John Twernbold" wrote in message news:eUn17.116637$[email]...
I don't know who you think you are by trying to imply that no one else knows anything about Usenet. If this is the case, you are very much mistaken.
I'm not even going to read any more of your bullshit, because unfortunately there will always be people like "you" who feel they are right on all facts and issues. I've been on Usenet for many years and there is no amount of "links" you can provide that will change my mind on this subject.
If you are DUMB enough to really think an alt group will be successful with a title of trading/selling seinfeld episodes, you are once again very much mistaken. Affiliates from Sony, I'm sure will gladly implant setup buys/trades for prosecution. If you are trying to compare trading/selling episodes of seinfeld with "WAREZ" alt groups, you are again mistaken. I do know the necessities of creating an alt group and I'm telling you if someone was stupid enough to create one, it would not be successful. (There are NOT that many people in the market seeking seinfeld episodes)
Lastly, as I read, there are a number of people who agree with me on this. If messages are seinfeld related, there shouldn't be any problem. There is no way a person like you are going to design specific posting rules in this newsgroup. If you want that Mr. smart guy, create your own "moderated" alt group.
That's not at all what I implied; I simply pointed out that YOU don't know much about Usenet. :-)
Ahh, a slow learner. Sorry, I mistook you for a newbie who could actually gain knowledge. I'll refrain from posting any more links for you.
Amazing. You said this before, so I pointed out all the other successful alt.* trading groups. When I did so, you had no idea what I was talking about. And now you're making the same erroneous argument again! I give up. You'd better get Elaine to start making your replies, because you're slower than George. ;-)
And even more people who don't. Notice that this thread was started by people who are "getting sick of you people"?
I hardly think he/she made that claim. Perhaps if you lower that over-blown ego of yours, you would read different.
You obviously have no clue what Usenet is do you? Are there any rules or faq that provide this information concerning alt.tv.seinfeld? You cannot dictate what others discuss in this group. And if you were so concerned about upholding Usenet guidelines, you would refrain from further stinking up this group with your egotistical threads.
"your" procedure? Let me guess, you are single right?
Perhaps you don't know what they are used for, if you did I don't think we would be sharing this thread.
<snip the remaining waste>
Bottom line, I did a Usenet search on "John Twernbold". He is without a doubt a high-strung trouble maker. My advice is to put him on the "plonk" file.
I quoted it right from his post. Go back and re-read it.
There are general Usenet guidelines, yes. I listed a few links to such documents, if you're interested.
No, read it again. I said "the" procedure, not "my" procedure.
Ahh, that sounds suspicously like what Tracy/Erin wrote just a few minutes ago, all from anonymous news servers. Shall we add "Dan" to your list of aliases?
Yeah, why don't just create a newsgroup called; alt.tv.seinfeld.trade.and.sale ? I don't know how to do it, but I'm sure some of you guys have the skills to do it.
On 6 Jul 2001 03:20:58 -0700, [email] (The Man of Purpose) wrote:
Go lurk in alt.config for a few days. You'll be sorry you did!
Cresting an alt.* newsgroup is not complicated in itself; you just have to write a control message, which you may or may not post in alt.config to get some feedback, and send the cmsg. Then, the fun starts: you have to promote the group because most news providers won't add a new group unless a paying customer asks for it.
It is way more simple to just add a prefix (I like the suggestion FST, for sale and trade). Of course, some people will walk in and post "Where can I buy all of sIEnfeld on tape?" every other week, but who cares.
Believe me, I feel the same way, that's why I personally, along with my friend, are trying to solve this problem. Now, I am in no way, nor my friend involved with this (although we made the site)...I don't know the people or anything, but we are trying to solve this problem. Tell everyone who is posting messages that wants to buy or sell tapes to go to this site....http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/seinfeldvideoexchange. (Seinfeld Video Exchange). It gives people a chance to buy and sell tapes with one another. I am the writer of SeinLanguage (the newsletter), people are constantly asking for me to make them copies of my tapes, although I do have them all, I do not have the time. So this is kinda why I (we) made this site, so please, just everyone go here. Thanks. That address again is.....http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/seinfeldvideoexchange.
Jeez people this is an un-moderated ALT newsgroup, and this group doesn’t get that much traffic to begin with anyway. I don’t see what the big deal is if people want to trade/sell seinfeld on vhs or cd. An Alt newsgroup would be the perfect place to engage in such activities.
Who’s making you read their messages anyway? 97% of the time the subject header states what the thread is, so why are you people getting so bent out of shape about it for? Simply, don’t open or read the message! At least they’re keeping on topic about seinfeld and not trying to sell/trade anything else.
50% of you hopefully agree with me? Hopefully this particular group won’t turn into a dictatorship, but will welcome ALL posts regarding seinfeld shows/trivia/episodes/discussions.
Damned right. And if people want to replace their apostrophes with ampersand-pound sign-8217-semicolon-ts, then by the gods, they should be allowed to do just that.
Yabbut. First and foremost, this is a discussion group. Perhaps not by decree of charter, but surely by the way it's been utilized by a majority of its subscribers for the last 5 years or so. There are lots of other ALT unmoderated 'marketplace' newsgroups where buying and selling and swapping is more the norm and more expected than in here.
See. There you go.
I'll drink to that.
Dave (someone pass the Hennigan's. I mean Hennigan’ts. :-) )
On 5 Jul 2001 15:44:09 -0700, [email] (Aveare) wrote:
It isn't such a big deal. In most (if not all) ngs, there are a number of prefixes posters use. Splitting the group or forbidding posts doesn't seem to be the consensus.
Correct. We don't read them either. Wouldn't adding 3 extra characters at the beginning of the subject line be a nice compromise and make everyone happy?
I think you are overreacting. Nobody is getting bent out of shape. (Personally, I don't have a shape to be bent out of to begin with.)
Everyone agrees with you, that's why we are looking for a compromise.
Kindly suggesting posters start using prefixes in subject lines hardly qualifies as a dictatorship.
Why don't we concentrate on finding a solution that makes everyone happy instead of questioning everyone's motives? This is one of the friendliest places on Usenet and the sooner we address this problem, the better.
"Dave" wrote in message news:[email]... Aveare wrote:
*lol* damned html news servers
There could be a fine line on the definition of the word "discussion". People could discuss about where they can get seinfeld episodes, and what the other person has to offer. Furthermore, this is the ideal place to ask questions about trading/obtaining seinfeld episodes.
I really do not agree with "selling" to profit on copyrighted material, but who am I to censor those people? I'm GLAD I came here a way back and made a deal to obtain seinfeld episodes.
LOL! Aw, does this mean I've lost that popularity contest I'd been hoping to win? :-) I'll have to take some lessons from posters on the "other side" like Seinfeldoncd and Jason, who quickly resorted to personal insults and name calling...
Hey, does this feels like a scene out of "The Masseuse" to anyone else? "This woman hates me so much... I'm starting to like her." ;-)
Don't worry, it happens to the best of us, John. This sort of thing seems to happen in a lot of newsgroups, the most intelligent and rational-sounding posters always end up being flamed by someone and then of course others jump, rather blindly, on the flame-bandwagon. But then again, many times it's just the same person under different aliases. After being on usenet for a year now, it still surprises me how the seemingly dumbest people in the newsgroup always manage to get so many people to side with them. Oh wait, it doesn't surprise me, that's just how people are. Look at Alabama's government.