Watching Ellie - gone for good?

Can't seem to find much info on the status of 'Ellie ' - anyone know if new episodes are in any stage of production? Or is the show dead?

TIA

-B.

I believe it's coming back.

--Phil

"I saw bigger stars after I accidentally sat on my nuts." -- Triumph, the insult comic dog saying to American Idol star Kelly.

The other night, on the repackaged "60 Minutes" Seinfeld segment, they said it was on hiatus.

Funny that there was no mention of LD or his very successful, very funny show.

R

NBC have closed the 'Ellie' website. Doesn't bode well. That'll be all 3 solo shows cancelled. 3 for 3. Lousy average.

"Brian" wrote in message news:a7Vx9.2249$[email]...

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:55:57 -0000, "sheila smith" wrote:

You are counting three - Michael Richards, Julia's and Jason's shows.

Add in the writers and producers that tried to make it with "It's Like You Know" and Carol Leifer's "Alright Already"

And that's 5 crashed out of five - wait a minute two of the cast and production people have successes on their hands. . .

Jerry's new stand up routine and Larry David's CYE.

What can we learn from that? Who were the geniuses behind "Seinfeld"?

Jerry's ideas and his knowledge of humour; and Larry David's far out mind and his writing skills. WHAT A TEAM!

"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote in message news:[email]...

Where's Duckman fit into this?

Was there a discussion here about Tom Shales's suggestion that everyone but Jerry and Larry get together and do a show? Sure, it wouldn't be "Seinfeld", but I'd watch "George And Elaine And Kramer."

BTW, I never knew George was Larry's alter-ego, as reported in the Onion AV Club interview.

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:41:36 -0800, "Mark Wilden" wrote:

That is pretty much what happened with "It's like you know". The entire production team were Seinfeld alumni. The cast wasn't but the writing never reached the quality of Seinfeld and it ended after prolonged attempts at saving it.

I don't think Jerry would have given the okay for the "intellectual property" of the characters to be in an other show. (quite rightly).

"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote in message news:[email]...

but

I think Shales's point was that the cast (enough without Jerry) was so awesome and the characters so rich, that even with merely decent writing, you'd still have something better than everything else on.

I think you'd be surprised. :) Jerry gets nothing by the other three being out of work.

It was an interesting article. You should try to dig it up if you haven't seen it.

GEORGE: (Scoffs) Writer. We're talking about a sit-com. -- The Pitch

Woman: A sitcom? How can you write that crap? Carol, this guy's writing a sitcom. -- The Virgin

Frank: Without the writing, you have nothing. You're the ones that make them look good. -- The Finale

TheNewsGuy(Mike) wrote in message news:[email]...

I don't think it's quite that simple. Let's not underestimate the wonderful on-stage chemistry that the four principals shared together. That's as much a part of the success of the show as the writing and producing, in my opinion. The fact that they didn't do nearly as well on their own lends further support to this. Of course, Jerry doesn't need good on-stage chemistry with other actors when doing stand-up since by its very nature he's performing solo. I'm not in any way minimizing the contributions of Jerry and Larry David. I'm just saying that it was both the brilliant writing/producing and the on-stage chemistry of the actors that made the show so great--not just one or the other.

Brian Park

"Brian Park" wrote in message news:[email]...

wonderful

much

I think Mike's point-- and I agree wholeheartedly-- is that you look at how the individuals from the show have fared and only LD has met with another success. That has tended to lend credence to the argument often expounded by both Mike and myself that the creative genius behind the show was David. (To those of you who think the last 2 seasons were swell, well, you are entitled to your opinions.)

I agree with you, the show was extremely well cast-- hard to imagine any other actors in those roles doing as well (except maybe the Elaine character, but that may be because she was often underwritten in comparison to the other 3),

I was away for a few days and missed it, but did anyone comment on Jerry's stand-up on Letterman? I, for one, was not impressed, the material was not nearly as good as his earlier stuff IMHO.

Craig Gordon wrote in message news:J%hy9.37198$ar4.113495@sccrnsc03...

There wasn't too much comment on it here but I was also not too impressed. He seemed nervous from the get go and after he was done I turned to my wife who watched it with me and said, "He wasn't that funny at all." I hope he's much better when we see him here in Chicago this Saturday.

Brian Park

[email] (TheNewsGuy(Mike)) wrote in message news:...

Have any of the staff writers had success, post-Seinfeld?

I noticed while browsing through the TV Guide... guide that the earlier shows in season 7 were LD written and the quality of the episodes picked up when the staff writers took over (IOW, "the Wink", "the Hot Tub" and "the Soup Nazi" were all better than the first three, written by David). IMO of course. Maybe LD was just exhausted by that point. I know you guys love Larry but the other writers had lots to offer too. I generally tend to wanna debunk "The Great Man Theory".

"steve horan" wrote in message news:[email]...

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Did you ever read that George Markstein interview I referred you to? I am guessing not. Otherwise, you would have never made such a silly remark.

"Craig Gordon" wrote in message news:...

No I didn't. Did you post a link? If yes, could you post it again as I would like to read it. I admit that I was stirring shit just a bit with my comment. I know your argument: as story editor he was the final arbiter of what made it to the script. Still I figure the credited writers musta done something. But then, you don't even have to go along with my original premise that the second group of three was better than the first.

FWIW, the episode that I'm transcribing for Mike, "The Stand-in", was credited to LD and it's a classic! It's gonna take some time though: I spent over a half hour on it last night and I only managed to get the standup intro and the bus scene with Al Necci (sp?) in my scratch pad. And then I'll have to get it on my PC...

am

Here is the link again-- so we don't have that silly discussion again!

http://www.the-prisoner-6.freeserve.co.uk/markstein.htm

If, after reading that interview you can't see why the difference in pre- and post- LD episodes was so apparent, then we can have a little talk....

"Craig Gordon" wrote in message news:...

Okay, I read it finally and here's the section you must be referring to:

"Q. Can you say something about your job as Script Editor - the difference between script editing and script writing?

A. I wasn't a script editor, I was a story editor really ... pedantic point but it's important. Script editor suggests someone who blue-pencils scripts, a story editor's a man who creates and thinks up stories. A story editor is the key man in any series, he is the man in whose hands is the ethos of the series, the spirit of the series, and it is his job to cast the writers and the authors the way a director casts the actors and the stars. It is his job to convey the meaning of the series to those writers and to, hopefully, make sure they write the kind of scripts that are required - to ride shotgun on the whole thing. He is the series on the writing side, just as the star - just as McGoohan - is the series on the acting side."

Yes, he says "any series" but he is talking specifically about his experience with "the Prisoner" in the UK in the 60's. It's possible that the situation was different with "Seinfeld" in the 90's. You're insisting on black and white and I suspect it's much grayer than that. Yes, LD could architect the overall structure of, say, season 7 which begins with George getting engaged and concludes with Susan licking those deadly address labels. But did he exert absolute influence over all points in-between including the Soup Nazi, the gay street toughs, and the Texan businessmen who are always saying "bastard" and "son of a bitch"?

The interview continues:

"Q. How did you brief the writers - what kind of information did you give them?

A. It isn't a question of information, it's a question of sitting down and talking, of knowing your writer in the first place, of getting on his wavelength and trying to help him get on your wavelength, bulling about ideas, guiding the writer, listening to what the writer feels, it's a partnership."

So it is a partnership. I remember reading an interview with Carole Leifer as part of a piece in the LA Times about the making of "The Beard" and, IIRC, I think she said that some of the situations arose from her own experiences. I'm not saying that LD didn't have the most control over the show's stories, not at all. I just think that he's probably not responsible for every bit of brilliance that went into those scripts, that's all.

BTW, I saw "The Postponement" in syndication last week and that show was freaking great! So I sorta stand corrected on that point.

Larry's brilliance probably was his ability to know which life experiences he and other people had were right for his characters and knowing how to translate those experiences into stories for television sitcoms. Without Larry, those experiences probably aren't as well-paced or funny.

"steve horan" wrote in message news:[email]...

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pre-

talk....

I never ever contended that he didn't not write a significant portion of those episodes-- it is even highly likely he never wrote a word of some of those episodes.

BUT, I repeat, BUT, his influence was clear in seasons 1 thru 7 (although less clear by seven, or he was getting burned out, not sure which). Yes those above paragraphs were the ones I wanted you to read, And yes, they point out exactly the point I was trying to get you to focus on.

To put it in more black and white terms-- for me, for you, for Mike, for a lot of others here, there was a clear drop off in script quality post Larry David. THAT IS NOT COINCIDENCE, He was no longer helping to shepherd the scripts along (regardless of the actual amount of writing he did). The show's scripts became, to use a term I previously coined, yukfests after he left. There was no continuity from show to show, jokes were just inserted into situations and would have nothing to do with the "plot." Even in the weaker seasons under LD (1,2 and 7), there was always a cohesiveness not just within each show but also from show to show. No way that happened after David left.

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:11:33 GMT, "Craig Gordon" wrote:

Yes I do concur.

But I seem to have missed the beginning of this thread why were we talking about The Secret Agent Man? and The Prisoner?

[email] (The News Guy(Mike)) wrote in message news:...

Craig and I have been having sort of a crock pot debate, low intensity but long-lasting (and some might call my argument a crock but...), that's crossed a few threads. I think it started when I said that CYE clearly establishes that the George character was based on LD (not that we didn't know that already) but I'm still not sure if the dovetailing multiple plotlines that we get in CYE (another common trait with "Seinfeld") were Larry's idea or someone else's or something that just evolved as the show went on (possibly inspired by "Fawlty Towers"). My argument isn't strongly asserted because I'm an agnostic on this question. I simply don't know. So it probably turned into a disagreement over how great LD's influence and control over "Seinfeld" was. Craig seems to think that Larry is pretty much responsible for the brilliance of the show because of his role as story editor - hence the excerpts from the Penske file... I mean, the Markstein Interview.

Where Craig (as well as yourself and others) and I disagree is relating to the change in the show between seasons 7 and 8. I think that it isn't as sharp a contrast as you all seem to believe and that the trend towards silliness started much earlier with random episodes (case in point: "the Barber") and that season 7 had plenty of the kind of over the top stuff (eg "The Bottle Deposit") that was the MO in the last 2 seasons. Also, IMO, some of that late "Seinfeld" silliness is pretty damn funny! It's a matter of taste clearly as some fans actually prefer the late episodes.

IMO, the show peaked in season 5 and, very very gradually, went downhill from there. It wasn't like season 7: good, season 8: bad. Craig believes it was like a completely different show without LD as story editor (he can correct me if I misstated any of his opinions).

After reading that interview I'm curious how The Prisoner ended...? Those floating balloons at the end of each episode were weird enough already.

"steve horan" wrote in message

I've never disagreed with you on season 7-- clearly there was a huge drop off from season 6, I just can't properly account for it (my suspicion, based on the fact LD quit after 7 was that he had had enough and that he wouldn't or couldn't put his heart into improving the scripts).

But, and I guess this is where we have always had our biggest gap, seasons 8 & 9 were a completely different show using the same characters-- essentially nothing in most of the last two seasons resembles anything in the first seven (there are limited exceptions-- "The Bizarro Jerry" seemed to me to be a fairly cohesive script as opposed to a straight sitcom-type jokefest).

There didn't appear to even be any attempt by whoever took over as story editor to make the scripts intelligent little playlets like the first seven seasons. The show stopped being witty and smart and just went for being funny-- not that there's anything wrong with that, but it was certainly a different show.

I realize seasons 7 & 8 have its fans and that's fine, everyone can like what they like. But the shows were so different the last two years that I find it hard to understand personally. My feeling, after having been on this NG for a year or so is that most of the big supporters of the last two seasons tend to be younger (20's to early 30's) and the show was probably written more towards that age range.

"Craig Gordon" wrote in message news:9zYz9.1568$[email]...

Even in the

after

Sorry to just drop in on the argument with a picky point, but I think season 2 is underrated and superior in every way to season 6. It is a short season and yet has a handful of my very favorite episodes: Pony Remark, Jacket, Phone Message, and Chinese Restaurant. I tend to think that season 2 is unfairly maligned because the episodes aren't as well known or shown as often in syndication. OK, I'm done now.

I suspect Larry David was probably responsible for totally re-writing ALL the episodes that he wasn't the actual credited writer on. His "Written by" credited episodes diminished as the season went on. What probably happened was that when David came up with the ideas and wrote up the scripts himself, he didn't have the perspective to know how to improve them. They arguably weren't as good as the ones that someone else "wrote" because by the time those shows aired, David had figured out what was wrong with them and re-wrote them to make them classics. That's how I interpreted the credits on the writing side anyway.

In article , [email] says...

Jennifer Crittenden and Steve Skrovan have written and produced Everybody Loves Raymond. That show has been quite successful.

'I come not to bury Ellie but to praise her.' Seems I was wrong. The Google news ticker has 'Ellie' slated to return in spring 2003. No cancellation.

"Brian" wrote in message news:a7Vx9.2249$[email]...

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