Babu Bat: A white Man dressing up as a Pakistani...

Are we in the 1950s or somthing or are they no talented actors from the Indian subcontinent I mean there are almost 100,000,000 of us Shame on you Jerry Seinfeld.

Very non PC

Mo

In article , [email] (Michael) wrote:

Troll, troll, troll, troll!

Michael wrote in article ...

That fact that someone considers it to be "non PC" is a damn good reason why I'm glad it was done like this. I detest political correctness in all forms. Just a pet gripe. Cheers,

David.

David Rambaldi wrote in message ...

That's rather facile reasoning is it not? Where do you stand on church-burnings and paedophilia? :-)

Brian

On Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:14:17 +0100, "Brian OConaill" wrote:

Great where do you stand on Al-johnson blacked up and singing Mami. Red neck

[email] wrote in message ...

I am staggered by the degree to which you appear to have missed my point so for your benefit I'll go over it again and would appreciate a retraction of your (incredibly inaccurate) insult.

a) David Rambaldi stated that he believed the fact that something is not politically correct is in itself a good reason to support it.

b) Paedophilia and burning churches are politically incorrect actions.

c) Using David's reasoning from (a) I semi-seriously wondered if that meant that he would support the actions specified in (b).

I must say I would regard this as having been fully and more eruditely expressed in the initial post to such a degree that I am open-minded on the possibility that you are simply a troll. On rereading however I suspect that you were acting under the impression that my post was a direct reply to you in which case I can appreciate how it would have been offensive. However I attributed and quoted accurately and you really should be more careful before you make unjustified and offensive comments about people. Perhaps most especially those who were questioning the reasoning of someone who disagreed with your own viewpoint. Just a thought.

Brian

Brian OConaill wrote in message >

[email] wrote in message

reason

all

You're probably referring to Al Jolson singing "Mammy" in blackface. White entertainers performed in blackface with the Minstrel Shows in post-Civil War U.S. and this medium continued into Vaudeville through the 1920's and 1930's with entertainers like Jolson and Eddie Cantor. Oddly enough, even African-American performers in Minstrel Shows were required to wear blackface ! Obviously today this practice would be insulting to both Whites and Blacks and is very politically incorrect.

However, the practice of pedophilia (American spelling) and Church burnings goes beyond political correctness. Both are criminal offenses punishable by long prison sentences. Therefore, I think using these as examples of political incorrectness is an improper analogy.

I believe Mr. Rambaldi's statement regarding PC was an over-generalization and he, like many Americans, are unhappy with an imposed "politically correct" employment "quota" system based solely on ethnicity rather than qualifications.

However, I should remind Mr. OConaill that, even in such an enlightened country as Great Britain, women were not permitted to play female roles in Shakespearian plays. Very politically incorrect and laughable today, but progress takes time I'm afraid. The day of Pakistani awareness will come in due time.

JG

John Gross wrote in message ...

White

Whites

by

in

John, I'm beginning to think it is this thread which ought to be labelled "Mistaken Identity" because I honestly don't see why you're addressing this reminder to me as opposed to the Mr Rambaldi (the PC-opponent) or Michael (The pro-Indian).

Throughout this thread my point has simply been to take issue with those who would use PC as a term of abuse and I can't see any relevance to that in your reminder. Also the way you cut the message, with my name at the top and the "Mami" comment at the bottom makes it look as if it was I rather than Michael who made it.

Political Correctness, however it works in practice, is at heart an attempt to address perceived immorality and legislate against it. Discrimination is only one part of it's ambit. Paedophilia and church-burning have long been established as immoral and legislation exists for their censure. PC is an attempt to further update our ideas of acceptable behaviour and that's why the 2 acts I mentioned are relevant. If Jerry Seinfeld was portrayed as a paedophile or George as an arsonist Klansman and in a favourable light unless I am much mistaken the show would be lambasted for Political Incorrectness. A strained interpretation of Mr Rambaldi's assertion would suggest that that is a good reason for such a portrayal. That is not a view I share. And that is the point I was making. QED.

Brian

Brian,

Beg pardon. I didn't mean to mislead regarding the "Mammy" statement and I apologize for any resulting confusion.

I can understand and, at times, sympathize with Mr. Rambaldi at the U.S.'s seeming obsession with Political Correctness, when, for example, I consider the case of a middle-manager whose employment was terminated on the basis of "sexual harassment" for having discussed the plot of the previous night's Seinfeld episode (the "Mulva" or the "Contest" episode) in front of a female subordinate. The male middle-manager sued both his employer and the female co-worker and won a multi-million dollar judgment against both defendants: a case of reverse PC.

Also, in a recent election, California reversed college admissions and employment practices based on gender and ethnic quotas.

However, I still take issue with your "pedophile and church burning" analogy as examples of PC. They are *felony crimes* and not merely insensitive behavior. Even hardened prisoners, who are not generally known for their political correctness, treat convicted-pedophiles as the lowest form of life because of their *crime.*

Your quote: . If Jerry Seinfeld was portrayed as a

As a student of both history and literature, I cannot conceive of a writer concocting a sympathetic characterization of a pedophile and/or church burner. And no where in Mr. Rambaldi's PC generalization can I find acceptance of these crimes any more than I can find a strained interpretation of capital murder as merely being politically incorrect.

Your quote: Political Correctness, however it works in practice, is at heart an attempt

is

I couldn't agree more.

But PC gone overboard prevents the "Puerto Rican Parade" Seinfeld episode from being shown in syndication because a few "so called" Hispanic leaders have declared it offensive. And the "Contest" with JFK Jr. will sit on the self until some self-appointed censor decides that the mourning period has concluded.

Brian, I appreciate your post.

JG

Brian OConaill wrote in message news:7qv1tj$30q$[email]...

in

even

burnings

over-generalization

in

this

who

attempt

is

been

view

John Gross wrote in message ...

John, I hadn't heard about that "Mulva" case. That does sound quite alarming. But in rebuttal of the statement I've quoted I think Lolita (the book and the films) and last year's Happiness (Todd Landers') fall into the category of sympathetic portrayals of paedophiles. And I believe both Lolita (meaning Adrian Lyne's film at least, since the term PC did not exist when the book was written and first filmed) and Happiness had to answer charges in various quarters of (you guessed it) Political Incorrectness. Nor is DW Griffiths "Birth of a Nation" very far from espousing church-burning although I accept that is an old film. Romper Stomper, a more recent film, gave a fairly sympathetic view of racist skinheads. Bret Easton Ellis' American Psycho and Helen Zahavi's Dirty Weekend both offer a non-judgmental view of a serial murderers. I think it's fair to say that we need not conceive of such non-PC concoctions - they already exist in numbers.

However that's not really relevant to my point that the fact that something is not PC is *not* a good reason for including it in a comedy program. If I must downgrade my examples, I think making for example Jerry a nasty sexual harrassor or George virulently anti-black (both non-PC, neither felonious) would not have added to the show but would in fact have detracted from it and that's really the only point I was trying to make.

I'm not in any way suggesting Mr Rambaldi would disagree with that argument. I'm just pointing it out as a possible flaw in his original position.

Brian

On Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:36:46 -0500, "John Gross" wrote:

In GB Pakistanis play pakistanis, Indians play Indians, Africans.... In america its get on the old black shoe polish

[email] wrote in message ...

Which of course is perfect justification for referring to me as a "red-neck". Have you even tried reading my posts? You have certainly made little headway in understanding them.

Brian

[email] wrote:

Hey, why not take your silly trollwork and mail it back to the 1920's, when your "issue" was valid?

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