what did you people want?

I check in on this newsgroup from time to time and am continuosly amazed at the dislike most seem to have for the final episode. (I am equally dismayed by the general dislike for this episode outside this newsgroup) What did you people want to have happen? And anyone who says that any of them should have gotten married and/or died/ or anything that dramatic simply missed the whole point of the show (not the episode, the show)

In my estimation it was about as perfect an ending as could have been done. The characters were absolute savages for 10 years (albeit very funny savages) and got exactly what they deserved. You had to expect some kind of a recap of the whole run which I think they managed to do in a very original way. And if you want to break it down as far as possible, you end up with only one way to sum it all up: Newman won.

Aaron

Give me a break, the tone you use is you're right and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. I can tell you why I disliked the final episode: Through 45% of the episode the four people we liked to see interact with each other just sat behind the defendants table like zombies. I actually sat watching the episode and thought to myself "I haven't laughed in a while." Whether it was a perfect ending to the show or not, the point of the series was to make people laugh. I didn't (okay that's a little lie; there were funny moments). The bottom line is that for a finale I guess most of us expected the funniest episode ever (remember all the hype?). Of course, many of us knew it was overhyped and tried to take that into consideration. The finale will not go down in Seinfeld history with such classics as "The Soup Nazi", "The Deal", and others. While this last statement is an opinion of mine, I doubt many people would disagree with it.

-Adam

In article , "MindSpring User" wrote:

Adam Sena wrote in message ...

The bottom line is that for a finale I guess

No, the tone I use is that if you disliked the finale and were a fan of the show, you either weren't paying very good attention to the show (again, not the episode, the entire show) or your expectations were not in line with what this type of last show HAS to do: It has to recap the whole run, which is going to eat up a lot of time with old clips and generally not allow time for a whole involved story to happen. Yet, they still did a good job. It was great to see everyone from over the years and get glimpses of all those great shows at once. Having the soup nazi makes you remember the whole soup nazi episode, same with the bubble boy, and having steinbrenner reminds you of all the classic steinbrennerisms from the past and on and on.

And seriously, for those of you who did not like it... what would have been a better ending???????

Anyway,

In article , "MindSpring User" wrote:

I have watched Seinfeld for years and consider myself quite a fan. I also am sure that I have payed much attention to the entire series. I am a modest person, but to back up my claim, myself and several others in this newsgroup (K Mann, Doc, Nancie, Jon B., and SS) were quoted by the Dallas Morning News with regards to our reactions to the news that Seinfeld was coming to an end (Hoppe, Christy "Gnashing of teeth in 'Seinfeld bytes" The Dallas Morning News 12/27/97) As far a expectations, I admit I had high expectations, who didn't? But as I watched it I tried to keep those expectations in check so I wouldn't be disappointed. Obviously you are not a writer of any sort, or else you wouldn't have said that the final show HAS to do something. Writers (yes even sitcom writers) are not bound by any taboos, conventions, or standards. The act of writing creatively must be free and uninhibited. When Larry David wrote the show, he didn't HAVE to do anything.

If anyone wants, I have the text of the Dallas Morning News article somewhere, I'll post it if anyone wants.

-Adam

The Betrayal.

Barry Gaudet wrote:

better ending???????

I agree with your choice, Barry. I did like the finale, but I thought it wasted too much time with clips for the "non-Sein viewer", especially since there was a clip show right before the finale. "The Betrayal" was ingenius how it ended up with Jerry and Kramer meeting. It could have been a perfect ending to the series.

Cris

I think they would have had to alter some of the specifics but they could have worked the clips into the episode for each flashback.

I would have to agree with that.

And there's the problem. The finale was NOT written for the "non-Sein viewer" so a lot of it flew right past them. I read a review that said the ending was stupid because they were just sitting in a jail cell talking about dumb stuff. It was obviously written by a non-fan who didn't recognize the reference to George's shirt buttons.

If you have doubts about whether the finale was well written, just compare it with some of the "Fan written finales" that floated around the web. Talk about horrible, the real finale was Emmy material in comparison.

Adam, I can respect your opinion.  The 'fab four' might have been given
a more active role considering it was their last chance, but then they
*were* defendants in court and there's just not much for defendants to
do during a trial.  And as for judging the episode harshly because it
did not make you laugh out loud, well, everyone's entitled to use their
own particular way of measuring the quality of an episode but to me,
laughing out loud isn't always the proper litmus test.  Your mistake was
in comparing the hype with the show.  NOTHING could have lived up to the
massive exposure the show received during that final week.  Nothing at
all.
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I don't agree with people who say you have to be a die-hard fan of the show to get the most from the finale. I read the script before seeing it on TV and on paper it just looks like any other Seinfeld episode - which is why I can't see why people have a problem with it. If anything would have it improved it , I would have had the 4 testifying in court instead of just watching the proceedings - at least then some relevant evidence could have been presented.

But aren't most series finales pretty bad? Seinfeld's was great in comparison. Mary Tyler Moore was just a half-hour of sobbing. Fresh Prince of Bel Air...wasn't that pretty much a clip show about past memories of the house they were moving out of? (Yes, yes, Seinfeld's had flashbacks, but hardly to the point of being a clip show.) Full House wasn't even a finale. It was pretty much just a normal episode that didn't wrap up anything. Family Matters and Step by Step moved to CBS and died of horribly low ratings, so a lot of people didn't even see those final episodes. I don't know about MASH or Cheers, so I really can't say anything, but it seems like most all finales are bad (with the exception of Newhart, whose ending was genius). Seinfeld did a good job.

Adam Sena wrote in message ...

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Adam Sena wrote:

Adam, I agree with you. The idea of their ending up in jail for doing nothing WAS a great idea but it was not well executed. Not like the brilliance on the earlier shows. The dialogue was mostly meaningless and here was little connection from event to event. So many non-related actions that did not tie together - the cell phone, the Judge's name never WENT anywhere, there was no connection with the airplane landing in the town and the car jacking - these events in the original Seinfeld episodes would have depended on each other - yada yada yada...

PS - anyone know what yada yada yada really means - How about our friends from Israel?

In article , "The News Guy(Mike)" wrote:

It doesn't mean anything in Hebrew. I personally use "ta-tam, ta-tam, ta-tam", which doesn't mean anything either.

the

The Judge's name did not need to go any further than it did. Here's the name George has used to get ahead, and yet here it is bringing him down. Not Funny , but cool.

I like every episode but the only scene that ever made me laugh out loud was where Kramer says to Jerry, "What's the big deal? We're just gonna put a little concrete in the washing machine."

It's one of my favourite episodes, but I don't know the name.

My favourite scene is the bit where Jerry is busted by Joe Bookman (where Bookman is in Jerry's apartment, starts about the coffee and so on). Again one of my favourite episodes.

I think my favourite could be "The Key's" because it has a lot of classic Kramer and some other stuff.

It still has the best Kramer line (when the plane is going down),

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Adam Sena wrote:

Not me. I think that it would have been foolish for them to try to accomplish that or to promote it as such. I think it was appropriate as a wrap-up.

It is not supposed to be the same as any of the regular episodes. Needless to say, it will go down in history as the finale, and perhaps the only one that was not really funny in the way that the regular ones were.

I liked it I liked it I liked it! And I'm not changing my mind even if you hire a gorgeous woman to use hours of steamy sex to convince me otherwise.

JUST TRY IT!!!!

Agreed. It was a great episode and it gets better every time I see it. The Arthur Vandelay thing and ending with the same conversation they started with were true classics.

Paul

MindSpring User wrote:

In article , Paul writes:

Preach on my brothah! :) if all you people bad-mouthing the final Seinfeld would take a moment to stop and think about it, maybe even watch it again, you'd discover the subtle, hidden meanings that only true fans of the show would notice. All this time the show is referred to as "A show about nothing", and what is the original reason that they get locked up in jail at the end? For doing *nothing* when a guy's car gets stolen. It was a fitting ending for a fantastic show... I did feel a tad underwhelmed that first time I saw it, but you really appreciate the genius of it after a second viewing.

But I guess you can't please everyone, since so many people wanted to see Jerry and Elaine get married or some crap like that.

---- -Matt Hall

SFA3 Karin Kanzuki FAQ: http://users.aol.com/lordbbh/karin.txt

"Hey wait, I just remembered something! You're boring, and my legs work." - Dennis Finch [David Spade]

For

I thought it summed up the whole series quite nicely.

In article , "MindSpring User" wrote:

But Newman was a bigger "savage" than all of them put together. I don't think the Bubble Boy or the Soup Nazi would qualify as innocent victims either.

[email] wrote:

And if you think about it, they usually suffered for whatever bad thing they did in an episode. When Susan died, George ended up losing a fortune, plus he was saddled with having to serve on a foundation board that robbed him of all his free time. When Jerry mugged the old lady for the marble rye, she later got his father removed as president of his condo board. And Babu's deportation was more the fault of George's lawyer girlfriend than the gang themselves.

As we know George wanted out of that relationship, and the death of Susan was just the unfortunate way it happened. The only reason he became part of the foundation is because he felt guilt - which is contrary to what most describe the characters of being.

I didn't think any of the evidence presented in the trial was relevant to the case, but unfortunately the defense never presented any evidence and that is why they were convicted.

Darren Perrett wrote:

Well, it is never specifically stated in the episode that the defense never presented any evidence. So, I believe that the defense *did* present a case, but they just didn't show it in the episode.

Jaclyn

think

I don't actually see anything wrong with the characters, from what I can tell they take stick and give it back twice as bad.

I've only seen the episode a couple of times but I'm pretty sure Newman dies of a heart attack after the verdict is read, and that's not my definition of winning. We never got to hear the defense evidence in the trial which was strange I thought. They weren't savages, just immature.