MORE SUE ELLEN!

Let's hope the very attractive Brenda Strong (Sue Ellen) appears in some more episodes... What do YOU think??

Let's hope the very attractive Brenda Strong (Sue Ellen) appears in some more episodes... What do YOU think??

Much more attractive than that insipid Susan!

<Much more attractive than that insipid Susan!

I won't respond in detail to this pitifully deficient post but I will say this: 1. No one is more attractive than Susan. 2. Susan is far from uninteresting nor does she lack vivacity nor is she dull. 3. The actress who played Mishkie or whatever is far less talented than Heidi Swedberg and she gave a rather uninspiring performance. 4. Susan has contributed heavily to over a dozen episodes and this character has contributed to only one (minorly). She doesn't even begin to compare to Susan.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

Wow, you think Susan is the most attractive person ever to appear in the show!

Depends upon the standards by which you're judging.

I try not to comment on an actor's talent untill I've seen them in more than one episode on television. I'm not impressed with Heidi Swedberg's acting skill's, but I've only seen her on Seinfeld.

Ok, now that you've mentioned the actress, not just the character of Susan, I'm now convinced that you are mearly trolling this newsgroup like I suspected after reading your first posts. Very convincing through consistency, but I don't buy it.

Greg.

<Wow, you think Susan is the most attractive person ever to appear in the show!>

Let me make a slight correction to this otherwise true statement. I think Susan is the most attractive person to appear period.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

<Ok, now that you've mentioned the actress, not just the character of Susan, I'm now convinced that you are mearly trolling this newsgroup like I suspected after reading your first posts. Very convincing through consistency, but I don't buy it.>

I've mentioned the actress a couple of time and I don't see how this surprises you. Since I like the character, wouldn't it follow that I like the actress who plays her with such skill? I will also say, as I have said before, that Susan is not so bad a character that it is impossible for someone to like them. I can assure you of sincerity and if you doubt it, then ask yourself: isn't this guy spending an awful lot of time researching a character and actress that he doesn't even like just for a joke or to inflame other people? You and the people who support this accusation have a very low opinion of me and I don't really understand why.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

Someone( not me, 'cause I swore I was going to ignore him, because that is the ultimate response, but,...I'm just not that good...) had the audacity to write:

To which [email] (JCS21212) predictably responded:

Well, there it is...The irrefutable facts, from the horses....hmmm....mouth! At least now we all know that your perspective on this issue is firmly planted in reality.

"Methinks thou do'st protest too much"

          Yes, and we'll be swearing in President Forbes next January,
because the      country needs a spoon-in-his-mouth geek who has one,
pie-in-the-sky issue to base a      campaign on...

          Now there's an interesting observation.I'm only going from
memory here, but as I recall it. we saw this women(1) in the flashback
scene with Elaine, when she was bra-less, and then again(2) when she came
by the office to thank Elaine for the present.Then, I believe we saw her
next(3) in the scene where Kramer and Jerry see her, and wreck George's
car.After that,(4)she comes to see Kramer, and winds up intimately
involved with Jerry.And then of course,(5) there's the final scenes in the
courtroom, where we are constantly offered camera shots of her reactions
to jerry's testimony, and(6) the "doesn't fit" finale.That's all I can
recall, but, there may have been more.
          Susan was seen for a milli-second, sitting on a couch across the
cabin from George.
          You're correct.This actress who contributed"minorly" to this one
episode can not begin to be compared to the tour-de-force performance of
Suzanne~~~~~

HF

Nature abhors a vacuum. When a head lacks brains, nature fills it with conceit.

Author Unknown

< Well, there it is...The irrefutable facts, from the horses....hmmm....mouth! At least now we all know that your perspective on this issue is firmly planted in reality.>

I didn't profess myself to be god and my opinions to be facts. I merely responded to an opinion with no basis or defense.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

   <       Now there's an interesting observation.I'm only going from
memory here, but as I recall it. we saw this women(1) in the flashback
scene with Elaine, when she was bra-less, and then again(2) when she came
by the office to thank Elaine for the present.Then, I believe we saw her
next(3) in the scene where Kramer and Jerry see her, and wreck George's
car.After that,(4)she comes to see Kramer, and winds up intimately
involved with Jerry.And then of course,(5) there's the final scenes in the
courtroom, where we are constantly offered camera shots of her reactions
to jerry's testimony, and(6) the "doesn't fit" finale.That's all I can
recall, but, there may have been more.
          Susan was seen for a milli-second, sitting on a couch across the
cabin from George.
          You're correct.This actress who contributed"minorly" to this one
episode can not begin to be compared to the tour-de-force performance of
Suzanne~~~~~ >

S-U-S-A-N Its not that hard.

On your actual post here, I will say that you are exactly right. Sue Ellen contributed a signficant amount more than Susan to this episode (who was in two scene, by the way, for significantly longer than a millisecond) but as I SAID IN MY ORIGINAL POST, Susan has contributed much more to the show. I will also reiterate my point that the acting quality of the Sue Ellen character left much to be desired. She spoke almost in monotone, her eyes were unfocused and wandering for some of her scenes, and she seemed to have unexplained pauses in her speaking. Watch the episode again, and you'll see because I didn't catch as much of it the first time as the second time I saw it. Her character does not compare to Susan.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

In article , [email] (JCS21212) writes:

No, your right! It's not hard...but you're sooo easy !!!

HF

"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even

considering if there are men on base."

Dave Barry

In article , Brendan Guy writes:

     Offended?People are actually "offended" by this stuff?...Am I the
only one who finds the whole JCS-Susan thing one of the more amusing
things to come out of this newsgroup?Yes, of course he's annoyingly
irrational in his defense of his "imaginary friend." It wouldn't be nearly
as interesting if it were all based on sound, and reasonable arguments.
     Personally, I love to drop little comments like the one to which
you're responding(which by the way, was not mine), with the full
expectation of a fiery response.
     If you're all  taking all this stuff seriously, then this has become
a newsgroup in dire need of professional help!
                                                   HF

One pound of learning requires ten pounds of common sense to apply it.

Persian Proverb

Hey, I agree with you fully on this point.

Yes, of course he's annoyingly

How can a true lover of arguements, take pleasure from an army of people ganging up on one guy? If you want to turn it from a peaceful discussion of the merits of the character, to a brutal flame war of personal attacks, I don't necessarily object to that. However, some of your compatriots have tried to take the moral high ground over the course of the arguements, which I can't see your side having any right to when you needlessly provoke JCS. On the whole from what I've seen of his arguements, he has been more or less reasonable. I am an obsessive person myself, and I have gone to equally great lengths to defend favorite characters before, so I can understand him. I don't necessarily agree with him, personally I think George is the best character, but I respect him for the battle he is putting forth. Keep it up JCS, your doing great.

Dire need of professional help? You have no idea, amigo!

Brendan W. Guy

Some of Brendan Guy's response to notes put forth by Highflag:

I hesitate to respond to this, since one of my newyears resolutions was to NOT respond to any post from JCS; perhaps I'm breaking down here.

There are two agendas that JCS is operating on, 1) Susan is great; 2) Elaine is bad. Either item could lead to some in depth discussion that would be interesting. Not in this case, though. Here are two examples of potential posts on item 1:

Mypost> Susan is attractive, and adds to the show. JCSpost> Susan is the most attractive woman I have ever seen JCSpost> period! She is also the best character on the show! JCSpost> The show stinks if she is not on it.

The first is a resonable opening to discuss Susan as an actor, person and character. The second is a statement of opinion, that is begging for disagreement, sometimes called a 'troll' in Newsgroups.

The next barrier to open discussion is the constant use of argumentative techniques, such as slippery slope and avoidance. I cannot quote directly, but here is one example that sticks in my mind:

Other person> Susan was gay in the 'x' episode, and also featured with George's other ex-girlfriend on a couch during the last episode of that season, resulting in # of episodes where Susan was gay.

JCS response> You can't prove she was gay in all of those episodes, and this is degrading to my position so I won't discuss it further.

Here JCS avoids the argument, even though there are many facts layed out in the 'other person' post.

In conclusion, JCS is simply playing mind games here, making bold statements and accepting no feedback. What is he really trying to do here? Is he trying to PROVE his opinions on Susan? Is he trying to bully readers to agree with him? Is he enjoying himself by trolling in alt.tv.seinfeld? This is really not conducive to 'discussion' for which Newsgroups are commonly used.

< How can a true lover of arguements, take pleasure from an army of people ganging up on one guy? If you want to turn it from a peaceful discussion of the merits of the character, to a brutal flame war of personal attacks, I don't necessarily object to that. However, some of your compatriots have tried to take the moral high ground over the course of the arguements, which I can't see your side having any right to when you needlessly provoke JCS. On the whole from what I've seen of his arguements, he has been more or less reasonable. I am an obsessive person myself, and I have gone to equally great lengths to defend favorite characters before, so I can understand him. I don't necessarily agree with him, personally I think George is the best character, but I respect him for the battle he is putting forth. Keep it up JCS, your doing great.>

Thank you.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

<  Offended?People are actually "offended" by this stuff?...Am I the
only one who finds the whole JCS-Susan thing one of the more amusing
things to come out of this newsgroup?Yes, of course he's annoyingly
irrational in his defense of his "imaginary friend." It wouldn't be nearly
as interesting if it were all based on sound, and reasonable arguments.
     Personally, I love to drop little comments like the one to which
you're responding(which by the way, was not mine), with the full
expectation of a fiery response.
     If you're all  taking all this stuff seriously, then this has become
a newsgroup in dire need of professional help!>

You're very offensive for one who tells us not to take it so seriously. What am I supposed to do: laugh when you call me annoylingly irrational? As your second paragraph proves, someone in this newsgroup does indeed need professional help.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns

Sheesh! What have I done?!! I started this thread by intimating that I thought Sue Ellen was one good-lookin' chick. Who's critiquing acting; I just wanna warm up a little during the cold months...

I think she was on the most recent PARTY OF FIVE. I don't watch it, but I saw the promo.

GR

Lets see...First,I wrote a bunch of crap that included:

     Am I the only one who finds the whole JCS-Susan thing one of the more
amusing
things to come out of this newsgroup?...
     Personally, I love to drop little comments like the one to which
you're responding(which by the way, was not mine), with the full
expectation of a fiery response.

To which [email] (JCS21212) spat back:

O.K. class...pay attention...The preceding is a classic example of acheiving the expected "action, and reaction..."

Somewhere in the middle of all that I also wrote:

Yes, of course he's annoyingly irrational in his defense of his "imaginary friend." It wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it were all based on sound, and reasonable arguments.

To which [email] (JCS21212) queried:

That would be the best possible response.Of course,it would be totally out of character for you, and,unfortunately it requires a sense of humor.

In closing I stated:

If you're all taking all this stuff seriously, then this has become a newsgroup in dire need of professional help!

To which [email] (JCS21212) decried:

     Well...no argument there.It's probably true that anyone who derives
pleasure from tweaking the noses of the "straight men"( now that's the
kindest description I could come up with) of the world, is mentally
unstable.
     Think a shrink would give us a group rate, if we went together?

HF

"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base."

Dave Barry

< That would be the best possible response.Of course,it would be totally out of character for you, and,unfortunately it requires a sense of humor.>

I have a sense of humor, thank you, and I would hope it would be obvious since I watch Seinfeld. I don't, however, think being intentionally annoying and mean is funny. That's why I don't find you humorous and thats why I don't find Elaine humorous. But I see why you do.

"Since the beginning of time, mankind has yearned to destroy the sun and I'll do the next best thing: block it out."

Montgomery Burns