Only Jewish people would think of bringing a Marble Rye bread to dinner at someones house. I think the writers wanna confuse us....Jewish or Italian Catholic?? Any definite answers out there?? I for one go back and forth.
Costanzas Jewish??
May 7, 199742 posts by 24 posters
❓ Question
Thread discusses whether George Costanza is Jewish or Italian Catholic, with fans citing the marble rye bread tradition and his last name as evidence, mostly concluding he is Italian.
42 posts
Absolutely Jewish, no doubt about it.
Amanda, your SIG inspires me:
"It's like rain on your wedding day". Ironic? No, that's poor planning.
"It's a free ride when you've already payed." Ironic? No, that's bad timing.
"It's good advice that you just didn't take." Ironic? No, that's just being stupid.
Someone aughta get this girl a dictionary.
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[email]
(Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)
(Remove SPAM to reply)Are we back to this one?
FATHER: Costanza Sr. is from Tuscany, so there is no reason to assume he is Jewish. Of course there are Jews in Italy, but to the debatable extent that Jews fit any stereotype, the Italian Jews do not fit the stereotype of the German and East European Jews, which is the one that Americans are familiar with. Mr. Costanza's behavior is evidently to be stereotyped as "feisty, hot-tempered Italian" if anything, though of course the actor is Jewish.
MOTHER: George's mother does fit the American media's usual Jewish stereotype, though, and there is no reason to assume that she is Italian.
GEORGE: George is eternally nervous about money (getting paid back for the big salad and so forth). I have a feeling that if Seinfeld and the other writers thought of George as Jewish, they would not portray him as nervous about money, because to do so would be to perpetuate an anti-Semitic image.
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I don't see what is anti-Semitic about the image of Jews being "anxious" about money. The ones I know freely talk about this; they seem to ENJOY the image, in fact, last week, one denied to me that it's just a stereotype, he wanted it known it's the TRUTH!! Besides, a Jewish boss I had some years ago bitched and SCREAMED at me publicly for twenty minutes because I bought him 2 cartons of cigarettes at a convenience store instead of a discount store....the difference? TWO DOLLARS!!!! I have not known very many Jews closely, but the ones I have known, frankly, have ALL been very "concerned" about money...not necessarily to inhumane degrees, but far more so than most Gentiles. It's a stereotype that happens to be true, just as most African-Americans have dark skin..........
(your flames here......................)
(your flames here......................)
** You want a piece of me?
NosnivelIn article , [email] says...
<<snip>>
I was not the original author, but I couldn't help but notice that, if true, the anecdote above about the Jewish person who TOLD him to forget that it is a stereotype -- that it was the "TRUTH" -- would go a long away in convincing someone that it wasn't a stereotype, *and* that it isn't even an offensive issue.
For example, I, as an Asian-American (born in Vietnam but have lived here for over 20 years), would NOT be offended if:
a) I did not eat rice regularly (I do though...); and b) Someone was surprised to find out that I didn't eat rice regularly.
It is the stereotype for Asian-looking people to eat rice regularly, or at least to eat it more often the general population. Of course, there are exceptions. There are probably some Asian people who don't eat or don't like rice. There are probably some whites/blacks/whatever that love rice and eat it all the time.
However, I find nothing offensive with the activity of eating rice, or being "anxious" about money. *I* am anxious about money. There. I keep track of it carefully, and I don't freely disburse it. I don't find that to be something I or anyone needs to be ashamed about. In fact, I look down on people who can't balance their checking accounts, people who are always trying to mooch off others because they are constantly broke, and people who spend money frivolously who cannot afford to.
A very good point! Everybody's LOOKING to be offended these days, and a WASP American man can't make a sound anymore without being accused of some kind of bigoted crap. Thing is, My Dad was born in POLAND! I could get half the people I work with FIRED for telling those jokes, if I wanted to be a weenie about it like most of these people today. But if I did, I would miss them AND the jokes!
In article , [email] says...
for
One of my favorite teachers was a seventh-grade science teacher who was Polish who "collected" pollock (sp?) jokes. He loved them.
That was in the good old days before all the political correctness crap... The days when people would actually LAUGH and not take themselves so seriously...
Hopefully the following point will finally put this issue to rest: In the episode "The Gum" George tells Jerry that he has to bring some Christmas gifts to his parents.
What my post is 'chock full of' is true things said to me by Jews. Now, if you find these things offensive, then that means you're offended by things Jews say and do, which makes YOU anti-Semitic!
Got any more 'sensitivities' you'd like to air??
What if I were to tell you that a Jewish co-worker once STRONGLY advised me to get a Jewish lawyer if I needed one...because "when it comes to money, they GO FOR THE THROAT and RIP OUT THE HEART!" (His exact words.) Now, who is the anti-Semite? Him, for saying it, or me, for repeating it?
P.S. I didn't know how to handle that remark when he said it...afraid if I laughed or agreed, I'd appear anti-Semitic....tough spot......
I seem to remember George saying that the name Costanza was Italian. This was the episode where George put a dollar in the tip jar at an Italian deli (I think this was the calzone episode, but I could be wrong), and the guy didn't see it, so George tried to take it back out and got caught. He tells the guy that his name was Costanza, which was Italian, and that they were paisanos (or however you spell it). I'd definitely go for Italian, about Catholic, probably. My $ 0.02 Howard
Dave <[email] > wrote in article ...
at
Italian
timing.
being stupid.
what do u have against jews, u piece of nazi shit
They're Italian Catholics. In one episode, George fakes being Jewish to date a Jewish woman who he thinks dates only within her religion.
In article ,
She did only date people that were orthadox jews, so George converted.
When he did convert, though, she had to go on a trip to Israel or something
Daniel
In article , [email] says...
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this
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talk!
Frank Costanza (the character) is a member of the Knights of Columbus. This, apparently, is fairly definitive proof (inasmuch as one can "prove" something that is fictitious in the first place) that Frank Costanza is Roman Catholic, not Jewish -- in a religious sense.
In an ethnic sense, if one assumes that TV is not out to make confusing characters, as one person has suggested in this newsgroup, the last name Costanza is not a typical Jewish last name. Therefore, Frank Costanza is not Jewish in the ethnic sense, either, if one makes the assumption that TV is not out to make confusing characters.
Add it up: FRANK COSTANZA IS NOT JEWISH!
In article , [email] (Huckleberry) wrote:
Remember George's father went to Sicily to visit his long lost cousin!
Buena Italia
Flax wrote:
So what? You think there aren't Jews in Sicily? They're scattered all over! George seems VERY Jewish to me. What about Frank eating kasha? -Jules
Your first and second sentences above are the right idea. The second -- that's your opinion. The third -- irrelevant. If I eat a bowl of matzo ball soup, does that make me Jewish?
Now that makes sense.
Did Jerry ever dwell on his own Jewishness before the recent "Dentist's Conversion" episode, when Jerry told him, "Well, welcome to the family"? I'm not as obsessed with the show as most of you, but I don't remember any positive confirmation of his ethnicity before this. It was always implied, of course; but his parents don't strike me as obviously Jewish as George's do. Confusing? Or just deliberately obscured?
In article , [email] says...
The whole Schindler's List reference was fairly obvious for the Seinfelds. There have been others, but I don't remember them right now. There is nothing obvious about the Costanza portrayal, because none of them are Jewish (most likely).
Mr. Costanza talked about a Kinghts of Columbus meeting which means the Costanza must be Catholic.
Costanza sounds like an italian name to me.
Subject: Re: George's conversion - Re: Costanzas Jewish?? From: [email] (Chris Borg) Date: 8 May 1997 22:22:06 GMT Message-ID:
Mr. Costanza talked about a Kinghts of Columbus meeting which means the Costanza must be Catholic.
Buffoons! Morons! Newbies! It was Latvian Orthodox, which of course does not exist. However, when a geographic reference precedes the word Orthodox, Christianity is implied, as is the case with Greek Orthodox & Russian Orthodox religions. Orthodoxy is the branch of Christianity which didn't get the pope after the great schism.
However, Jerry Stiller, the actor who plays Frank, is of Jewish ethnic origin and grew up in New York City, and anyone who hears his speech and his mannerisms could not fail to notice a definite lunatic Catskill's comedian touch. But yes, the show intends the Costanzas to be Italian Catholics, which is explicit in one episode when Frank visits his cousin in Italy.
However, Jerry Stiller, the actor who plays Frank, is of Jewish ethnic origin and grew up in New York City, and anyone who hears his speech and his mannerisms could not fail to notice a definite lunatic Catskill's comedian touch. But yes, the show intends the Costanzas to be Italian Catholics, which is explicit in one episode when Frank visits his cousin in Italy.
Daniel Baker ([email]) wrote: :
:
A Jew does not "convert" to the Orthoxy. I know because I am Jewish.
In article ,
I didn't say this show was realistic.
Daniel
Who cares, it was a great episode. When the Father asked George what 'attracted' him to the faith, he said he liked the hats. Very funny.
As well, the fact that Frank Costanza is a member of the Knights of Columbus ( a Catholic organization) and that he sold statues of Jesus and the Virgin Mary in Korea may allude to the Costanzas being Catholic. Perhaps.
Estelle Harris, who plays Estelle Costanza, has said that they purposely wrote the Costanzas without specific ethnic or religious background. She said that this way everyone can relate to the family, not just Jews or Italians or any specific ethnic group. I for one think it's better that way.
Michael Alexander
Did George convert or was it called off when the nun fell for Kramer? There is ambivilence here. The nun reversed herself when Kramer wore garlic.
On Wed, 7 May 1997, upstairs wrote:
The Costanzas are Jewish, I'm pretty sure. They act like stereotypical Jewish people, don't they. I know that the Seinfelds are Jewish, because this has been handled on the show before. What was really ironic was in the limosine episode where George pretended to be O'Brien who turned out to be a Neo-Nazi.
In article , [email] says...
And so do my parents. However, my father (stepfather) is German-American was and brought up Lutheran. My mother is Vietnamese and raised as a Buddhist. Your point is a non-point. Marble rye is consumed by other people than Jews as well.
In any case, what you perceive is stereotypical Jewish behavior is most likely the product of two and possibly three of the Costanzas being Jewish in real-life, and they may have speaking patterns stereotypical of some Jews, or you may just be confused between real-life and TV.
The only reference (besides the stupid Latvian Orthodox thing that everyone thinks is SO funny to bring up again and again) I remember with regard to the Costanzas is Frank Costanza being a member of the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization. So unless you want to imagine a scenario in which a Jewish Costanza family in Italy has a son named Frank who converted to Catholicism, the character of Frank Costanza is not Jewish.
Mrs. Costanza and George (Latvian Orthodox reference notwithstanding) may choose their own religion; whatever Frank is does not neccesitate George or Mrs. Costanza being anything in particular. There have been no clues to my knowledge of the ethnic origin of Mrs. Costanza, only Frank's.
Please explain why they can't be Italian and Jewish?
Yeah. I noticed a scene where the Costanzas are sitting at the breakfast table and Mr. Costanza is ripping out the "guts" of a bagel. I had a friend--in Queens & yes, Jewish--who used to do the same thing. I don't know why exactly. But is it a "Jewish" thing or is it "Queen/native-New-Yorker"? And may I just pose this: Might Mr. Costanza be Jewish, despite the Italian-sounding name, and Mrs. Costanza be Italian? (Would this explain anything about George?)
In article , [email] says...
If you accept the notion of a Jewish person belonging to a Catholic organization called the Knights of Columbus, as does the character of Frank Costanza, the sure. Also, if you think that TV writers would contrive to have such character actually having been born Jewish but converted, then you could argue the contrived situation as well.
It wouldn't explain anything about George's religion or heritage in your situation since he can be of any religion he chooses and being considered Jewish ethinically passes from the mother, people have told me.
Not exactly. The RELIGION passes from mother to child. There's no concept in Judaism of being "ethnically" Jewish apart from the religion, except among some very non-traditional fringe groups. A person who is Jewish by birth, but who has embraced ("converted to") another religion, is considered an apostate but still Jewish. This can pose difficulties for the children of Jewish apostate mothers, who raise those children in other faiths --- for example, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
---Alvin H. Nichter
In article , [email] says...
Never said there was. Judaism is a religion, and that's that. I wasn't referring to Judaism, but "being Jewish."
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, this is what I was talking about. Since the person has embraced another religion and is still considered Jewish (your words), what aspect of being Jewish are you referring to, since Judaism is no longer a part of this person's life? If not ethnicity, then what?
On 21 May 1997 19:35:09 GMT, [email] (Huckleberry) wrote:
I thought Jewish-ness actually had to do with the bloodline, the religion itself being a closely allied variable.