Susan is Dead????

Couldn't they think of a beter way to end Geroge and Susan's wedding. Anything would be better than that. What are they going to do now? Kill Jerry's new girl! What has happend to the sitcoms latey. Jamie and Paul and now this. At least this was funny.

In article , [email] (Mark Eubanks) wrote:

I agree, the death of Susan left a bad taste in my mouth. They all reacted inhumanly. no grief or shock, just mild surprise and the feeling that "Hey, I guess George is free now." I know it's a comedy, but this wasn't funny

[email] (Annie Galvin) wrote:

No pun intended there, right? ;)

• Rusty "will debate for food" Meathook

In article , [email] says...

reacted

I thought it was horrible!! You're right, Susan was too smart and good looking for George. It would've been funny if Susan cheated on George and there was a huge fight in the Diner.

In article , [email] says...

Lighten up. Nobody liked her - it was funny. Or one can look at it this way: don't you think marriage to George would've been a fate worse than death? She was spared. Kewl!!

Judi

<Lighten up. Nobody liked her - it was funny. Or one can look at it this way: don't you think marriage to George would've been a fate worse than death? She was spared. Kewl!!>

I liked her a great deal and thought she was the best character on the show. Her death was one of the worst pieces of writing in television history. A monkey with a typewriter could have written a better season finale than that. They invested two years into her character and one year into the wedding and end it like that? Every other time George and Susan broke up (the Pick and the Virgin) the reason was clever and somewhat funny. This one was tasteless and offensive.

In article ,

You are crazy to say she was the best character on the show. That's going way overboard. She was a bit player and a character that we knew very little about. That sure wasn't a tough role. Michael Richard's Kramer... now there's a great character. Most original on television today.

Obviously you haven't seen Family Matters.

<You are crazy to say she was the best character on the show. That's going way overboard. She was a bit player and a character that we knew very little about. That sure wasn't a tough role. Michael Richard's Kramer... now there's a great character. Most original on television today. >

Susan was not a bit character and she was the best character on the show. I asserted this at some length a short time ago and won't go over it again. Your statement that we knew very little about her is also totally in error. We knew more about Susan than we know about Kramer, Newman, Elaine, and any other character other than Jerry and George. The character of Susan was developed over the course of two seasons, underwent changes, and evolved. Kramer, in contrast, has never changed and we still don't know much about him. I will say, though, that he is a great character and after five years of watching the show (this year up to seven times a week), I still find him funny.

When Susan, Jerry, & Elaine went to CHUNNEL, the character I identified with most was Susan because she became annoyed with Jerry & Elaine's talking during the movie. Didn't Jerry have a stand-up bit about "the unshushables"?

GR

<Oh, JCS knows her. I mean, =really= knows her. Probably has her home address. Her phone number. Calls at all hours, giggles hysterically, and hangs up. He wants to protect her. Keep her. Hold her tightly. Really tightly. Won't let her get away. No. Must protect her. Then he leaves to deliver the mail.

God, I wish AOL would stop putting the free floppies into PsychoDigest!>

Don't we all.

"Don't you worry Mr. Simpson. I've argued in front of every judge in this state, often as a lawyer." Lionel Hutz

What a nut, eh? I have to say that two words come to mind after reading all of JCS21212's obsessive postings about Susan......restraining order. (If only they were available for newsgroups!)

Andrew.

In article , [email] says...

I think Susan's death showed just how selfish and shallow George really is. I didn't find her death funny in the least, but I have to admit, I did laugh at him calling Marisa Tomei.

OK- they've done it, and it seems the consensus is they screwed up. I think they blew a marvelous opportunity. Here is the show that has successfully dealt with all sorts of subjects: masturbation, date rape (the masseuse), all sorts of things. They could have had a classic show dealing w/death, where George reacts in a somewhat credible now-that-she's-gone-i-really-miss-her, going through the stages of grief but in a funny way. Here is what should have happened if susan HAD to die...

George discovers she's dead, decides he really loves her. George attempts to sue the invitation company in her name (using Kramer's Cohrane lawyer). At the trial he meets the defense attourney, whom he falls in love (real, true love) with and marries. They then have a couple seasons to explore George and Jerry both being married (THAT would be funny). There is still a way out. There was just little enough mention of the death that the first episode of next season they can have George react in a somewhat upset way about Susan being dead. What do George's parents think? Susan's? Let's see George upset and Jerry be uncomfortable hving to console his best friend. This could all be funny, avoid the touchy-feely and not strain the credibility of the show. They could even claim George passed out when the doctor told him Susan was dead and he dreamed the going out for coffey, Marisa Tomei part. And why not have Susan get ill from the envelopes and tell George she wants out from her hospital bed. Jeez. Or they could just have the entire episode be a bad, bad dream. It worked for Dallas.

If they don't fix this one I may stop watching.

Toxic glue on wedding invitations. What a bizarre turn of events. I mean, obviously, the point of last night's season finale was to reverse The Pact, and to have George off the hook, and Jerry on it. To make Susan's exit a death was a little wierd. Did you have trouble laughing at the exchange between George and the Doctor? I did. It just seems that death is not something to be joked about, not even by The Group of Four.

Jerry's falling in love was too contrived and hurried, IMHO. However, when he discovers first that he's been looking all his life for himself to fall in love with, then that he hates himself and he needs someone totally opposite, I was LOL.

I also LOL at AOLers!

The Doctor

I am very happy, yet saddened to be the first to announce that Susan is dead. Susan was a very loved character who will live in our memories forever. Services will be held on Friday. I ask we all give a moment of silence for Susan. All I can say is, farewell Susan. She finally licked her self in an envelope to death.

On 17 May 1996 01:37:35 GMT, [email](Bill Kane) wrote:

BTW: Jerry is getting married too!! forgot that??

I think that the death of Susan fits perfectly into the frame of the show. For the most part all of the characters are self-serving and largely void of concern for outsiders, which Susan was. So she was George's finacee, that obviously didn't mean much otherwise George wouldn't have wanted to call off the wedding. Eventually Susan would have totally destroyed Independent George so she had to be destroyed.

That George or any of them didn't show any emotion is totally in character. Why change the characters for the sake of a little sympathy?

Now the question is, how will they get rid of Jerry's finacee?

Michael Oldemeyer

You are not the first to report her death. I was. I hate to say I told you so but many moons ago I wrote as follows:

Hate to say I told you so, but, ..........

You are all pond scum who deserve to be die. If I were the government, I would hunt you down and kill you. Relishing the death of Susan, a character who neither a reason to die nor was even given the benefit of an honorable death (how it would have been possible for her to join the army and die defending the nation, though, is beyond me), is the sickest action I would think possible of "normal" non-psychotic people. Perhaps I'm overreacting to a bunch of insensitive morons but then again, perhaps not. There was no reason for Susan to die and any self respecting human being would not relish the concept of accidental death on a COMEDY FOR GOD'S SAKE. I hope anyone who thought the episode was funny and the ending appropriate is hit by a bus.

Hey, you don't have to be part of the government. Any asshole with a gun and a polished of twelve pack can do it.

I

an

army

action

not.

being

A LONG time ago I made a joke about how the actress who played Susan should be afraid because JCS sounded like a stalker. I got a nasty email saying, "Waaahhhh, just because I love Susan doesn't mean I'm insane! That's just cruel." And I felt bad for being judgmental. I forgive myself.

Lunatic.

Jennifer!
__________________

Attn. all sensitve types: if you didn't think the show was funny, FINE, but my gawd, there is a line, and it has been crossed.

I overreacted in my earlier post after reading some of the posts from this newsgroup and said the one line in the first line of the post from this subject that I shouldn't have. But, the fact of the matter is that the finale was totally out of character for Seinfeld and for a comedy that doesn't attempt to simulate real life. They spent the better part of two seasons building up the character of Susan and the better part of this season building up George's reaction to the entire engagement and his ways to weasel out of it. Heck, they even spent the better part of the finale coming up with wild schemes for George to get out of the wedding (the smoking scene was great by the way, the only part of the episode worth watching). The ending wasn't only tasteless, it was stupid. I can't believe that that's what a bunch of guys getting paid to write came up with. Why put all this effort into it, if you're going to have the character and the wedding end by someone licking two hundred illegally poisoned envelopes? If it was meant to shock then it certainly succeeded, but Seinfeld has never gone out of its way to shock before. I always thought of Seinfeld as a clever show where the jokes were intelligent and hilarious at the same time. I never thought of it as avant guarde and the finale took we totally by surprise. I could wake up tommorrow and find out Reagan's dead and not be as moved by that as I was at the scene at the hospital in the finale. Call it twisted, superficial, or whatver but television is designed to manipulate emotions and it has certainly succeeded in my case. Once again, I apologize for the earlier post about scum on this topic. I lowered myself to the level of most of the audience here.

Write on girl!

[email] (Pangolin) wrote:

[email] wrote:

Sorry, Mike, you are wrong. this IS out of character for the four. If it weren't, no one would be upset.

I don't know what's worse--the callousness of the characters in the episode, the callousness of the writers to concoct this plot, or the callousness of fans who felt the characters SHOULD have reacted that way--and were actually amused by the outcome.

Did this episode make any sense to anyone. We came up with a theory at work that seems to fit our need to believe that the show is capable of more:

• We know Janeane Garafalo is unlikely to be a regular on next seasons' episodes.

• Killing Susan from such a bizarre method seems very out of character.

• Jerry ideal woman is the "Shallow man's dream" of someone exactly like himself.

SO WE THINK:

    When Jerry stumbled in the street, he really did get injured and
    everything from that point on is a COMA INDUCED HALLUCINATION!!!

Works for me.

Sally

In article ,

Out of character? Toxic envelopes do not count as a character. Nobody killed Susan but herself.

If you mean it doesn't fit with the Seinfeld style than that's incorrect. There have been numerous cases where unplanned, chance occurances interfere: my favorite being when Babu's immigration papers were left in Jerry's mailbox while he was away. The only reason Babu got sent back to India was because Elaine forgot to give him his mail!

In article ,

The big distinguishing feature this time, IMO, is that usually the character who kills someone or ruins their life

Jerry in the case of the pony lady, the laughing guy in hospital, Babu George in the case of Tony the rock-climber, J. Peterman's mother

displays a strong reaction. Not sorrow, but a fear of being blamed. It would have been in character for Jerry, Kramer and Elaine to attack George and George to get defensive.

The other alternative, like with Jerry and Jon Lovitz or George and the bubble boy, or even the disabled woman or the Drake, is to not let someone's problems get in the way of hatred and revenge. But again in these cases the characters at least displayed strong emotions all the way through. It would have been Seinfeldian for George to be gleeful and everyone else to be disapproving.

John

I am both disappointed and thrilled with this week's episode. First, the good news: I love Janine Garafalo and think that she may just be the only one I can imagine marrying Jerry (other than Elaine). I hope she becomes a regular next year.

Now the bad news: What in the hell were they thinking? I don't expect Seinfeld to be touchy-feely or to have moments like in other sitcoms where there is personal warmth between characters. But...I think this season they have gone over the edge as to the manipulative, almost psychopathic tendencies of the characters First, Jerry mugs an old woman. Then Jerry and Elaine hover over a couple like vultures waiting for their marriage to end. Tonight's episode was ridiculous (I know, that may be the point- I do understand the subversive nature of this, but bear with me). First, I actually liked Susan. I thought that she and George had an interesting relationship, one that could have been very funny, especially with Jerry and George BOTH married. At first I thought that was where we were heading here. Second, when Susan dies, I thought George would suddenly realize how much he loves her or at least cares for her a little and suddenly be extremely upset (:she's dead Jerry!" "I thought you wanted her dead!" "I don't know what I want"...something like that- that would hva ebeen funny). Instead, every character had absolutely no reaction that this person they used to know quite well was gone. It seems especially callous when Susan got off so many good lines in the episode (I make more money than you!) and demonstrated a generally pleasant personality. This is not the pony lady dieing- THIS IS SUSAN! Seinfeld derives a lot of comedy from character, and one element of that comedy is knowing that these characters have scruples (i.e. "I don't want to be an orgy guy"). It appears here they don't. I'm fairly disgusted...but then again, maybe that's the point. Maybe Jerry and Larry David want to make Seinfeld so anti-comic in its last year as to drive everyone away. I would LOVE an anti-comedy sitcom where the characters are creepy, but I don't think Seinfeld is the proper place. Think of it this way: how do the characters actions this week make them any better than.... NEWman...

In article ,

Why would they feel bad for susan? She said she didn't LIKE George's friends in one episode earlier this year. They hardly knew each other (didn't hang out).. Kramer didn't even know her name!! Then she refuses to give Elaine some sort of position at her wedding and kicks Kramer out of his usher job! I know it's small compared to her dying, but still they showed about as much respect as could be expected.

I think it's great that they're getting so absurd. Until the show started going in this direction, it was kind of stale. It was still the best sitcom on television, but they were just treading water. They've gone in a totally different direction lately, which is refreshing.

I don't know, but the whole episode seemed like a dream to me...it might be too corny for Seinfeld, but I kinda think that the manner of Susan's demise could be an imaginary product of George's subconcious guilt. At least, I hope so.

[email]

In article , [email] (Sean Swindler) writes:

It was pretty tasteless, but don't forget that the characters have always been the most self-absorbed people on the planet. They have also made a career out of destroying people, intentionally or not - Babu's restaurant and deportation, destroying Susan's family cabin and outing her father, putting the Soup Nazi out of business, ruining the marathon runner's race with Kramer's coffee. It just goes on and on. A death was inevitable.

Generally though it's the main characters who suffer most of the time. George was unhappy with his parents and susan and his job. Elaine with her jobs for Mr Pitt and J. Peterman and her boyfriends. It's not like they're riding on top of the world.

marc colten

remember when Kosmo yelled passing a kidney stone, and acrobat fell off the wire at the circus at the sound, and nobody mentioned it? Wasn't that the most complex sentence ever posted in a.tv.s?

I can live with George's reaction to Susan's death. They're all, the 4 of them, self-centrered people, so why expect more from them... But the tricky part is WHY?

And I think it's because they found out that Susan was killing INDEPEDANT George and they made a big mistake bringing her back from Lesbos. So they choose the easy-soap-opera-death-before-the-wedding !!!

Or maybe Heidi Swedberg only had a 1 year contract!!!!

Eric

<lol! Great post. Do forgive yourself, indeed. And be sure to protect your own <anonymity. This man be scary.

I find it extremely hilarious that a group of third rate halfwits have judged me to be psychotic. The only people who are psychotic are those who relished in the last episode. Incidentally, that post was some time ago. Why reply it to now?

"Don't you worry Mr. Simpson. I've argued in front of every judge in this state, often as a lawyer." Lionel Hutz