who watches Seinfeld? CNN's story.

I was watching CNN the other day when they announced that even though Seinfeld has the largest ratings share of all TV shows recently, it is only #68 in ratings share among black viewers.

Any comments?

Drago

Why does anyone care about the breakdown in viewership?? We are all Americans. Quit dividing people! I bet you can find a different variation among age groups, but it wouldn't mean a thing. Have a nice day... '

Yes. There are actually 68 prime-time shows on television?

I would love to see the first 67.

Well, Seinfeld is a white show. White writers, white actors. This doesn't make it bad, doesn't make it good. Just a fact, and some blacks will have a harder time relating to it, just as many white would have a tough time watching with mostly blacks as the stars.

Gussel Timer ([email]) wrote:

Ever hear of the Cosby show?

There were some whites who couldn't stand to watch it. Many who could. Reread my message closely and you'll see there's no contradiction.

But if you want to argue, let's try this: People will watch shows which entertain them. SOMETIMES (not all the time) being able to relate to characters (or at least liking them) will help set the mood to be entertained. A part of that includes race. This can also be applied to friendships in real life. Blacks hang out with blacks. Whites with whites, Chinese with Chinese, etc. There are exceptions but the general rule holds true.

Cosby show: This was basically a show with blacks that whites could feel comfortable about: i.e. they spoke like whites, had social status predominantly filled by whites, and they had upper middle-class values.

But Shows like Hanging Out with Mr. Cooper are not popular among whites as they are with blacks. This is also true of many the comedies on Fox that feature mostly black stars. This isn't racism, it's probably a matter of being able to relate. The blacks on these shows (unlike Cosby) talk "black", act black, and their situation matches that of most blacks. Blacks (who'm I won't call AFrican-American since I'm Canadian) can relate to it better. Whites can't.

There is no secret why every black Juror in the criminal trial of OJ Simpson voted Not Guilty. They could relate to the police conspiracy theory. They've seen racism with their own eyes. Whites dismissed the theory (because they've not been the object of racism). Again, it's being able to relate.

In article , Gussel Timer writes:

Can you say Racist...???

It Shrinks...???

[email] wrote in article

Cany you say "I don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about?" I didn't think so. How is that racist? Not being able to identify with another race is not racist. Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. Relating to one particular race, most likely ones own is no crime against humanity.

Perhaps you should refrain from these types of postings until you get a clue about reality.

In , "James A. Dirmeyer" writes:

There's a difference. What you are describing is not racism, so much as ethnocentrism. It's human nature to believe that whatever race you belong to is better than the others.

Dave <[email] > wrote in article ...

didn't

crime

ethnocentrism.

than the others.

But what I was saying was that just because you relate to your own race does not mean that you do think it is better than other races. The two do not always go together. I have more white friends than black friends, and when I go out it's always with my white friends. Does this mean I think that whites are better than blacks? No it doesn't.

whites

Cosby)

Canadian)

This is the funniest thing I've read all day! You're making it sound like being black is some kind of club with a secret language and meeting place. Could I possibly join? Will I get a membership card in the mail that officially proclaims me as "black" so I can fully enjoy "Martin"? Will I receive a monthly newsletter telling me what's going on in the "black world"?

Blacks and whites don't live in alternate universes (I know - almost all of my friends are black). There are a lot of black people who think "Hanging With Mr. Cooper" is one of the stupidest shows on TV (and rightfully so), but love such white-fare as "Seinfeld" (I have one black friend who is a complete Seinfeld fanatic, but couldn't even name three main characters on "Moesha").

Maybe someday we'll get past this whole "I'm black, you're white, we're different" thing. But I doubt it. In the meantime, I'm going to watch "New York Undercover".

People are getting past it every day. Things will not change until the networks get past it. BTW, seen the latest "Homeboys from outer space"?

How does it relate with the Puerto Ricans? Or the Chinese? Or the Koreans? How about with the Jews? Just curious.

only

Okay, lets assume the numbers are true.

Seinfeld manages to maintain the number one spot without a black audience. "Black shows" like, just about everything on UPN, Martin, etc. seem to go nowhere (don't bring up Cosby, I'm talking about the present.) Why should Seinfeld change? It's successful as it is, tampering with it would be rather ignorant.

In article , "James A. Dirmeyer" writes:

**"Black Shows...?? what century are you in...?? I didnt know shows were divided ***by color...I just divide them by good and bad.***

... like, just about everything on UPN, Martin, etc. seem to go

*** Um..He does have a show in the present time..a very GOOD show by the ***way,,not that I am biased as I live in Queens....

***that I agree with.

It Shrinks...???

[email] wrote in article

audience.

divided ***by color...I just divide them by good and bad.***

Ahhh, go ahead and bite me. Notice the quotation marks around "Black shows"? The subject was shows with mainly white characters and watched by mainly a white audience. I brought up shows with mainly black characters watched mainly by a black audience. If calling those shows "black shows" in order to save time typing offends your sensibilities I really could not care less.

***way,,not that I am biased as I live in Queens....

Give me a break. Any time anybody talks about an issue like this the Cosby show is always brought up. You know which one I'm talking about. Not the current one (flying oh so high in the ratings isn't it) but the 80s one. Bite me again.

"James A. Dirmeyer" typed...

***It doesnt offend me..it just shows how your thought process works..or fails to.. a show is a show... I am white. I watch Cosby, Seinfeld, Fraiser, Newsradio, Martin, Living Single, Third Rock from the Sun etc. I watch television...shows that I think are, in my humble opnion, good....not "black shows" not "white shows" etc.. And I care even less than you do about sensabilities..something you fail to show here.***

***Again, I am white and I watched both recent Cosby shows..I watched him growing up ,went to a live show to see him, have his albums etc...

and what does this prove??..it proves nothing... it proves I like Cosby. End of story.***

***Bite you..?? not with someone elses mouth.***

** P.S. Ratings LOL **

It Shrinks...???

We were just discussing this issue in the office recently. My friend Gary enjoys "Seinfeld" when he sees it, but that is rare as it runs against "NY Undercover". He also watches "Martin" over "Friends". Gary is really into racial issues and this carries over into his viewing habits. I believe this may be the case with many minorities, who prefer to watch other minorities when given a choice. This is not to say that these shows are lacking merit. I have never seen "NY Undercover", but I used to be a fan of "Martin". I was also a big fan of "In Living Color" and "Fresh Prince" along with many other shows featuring minorities. It simply is not an issue with me.

[email] wrote in article ...

were

fails to..

Newsradio, Martin, Living Single, Third Rock from the Sun etc. I watch television...shows that I think are, in my humble opnion, good....not "black shows" not "white shows" etc..

to show here.***

You are wrong. Maybe to you a show is just a show, but in the context of what was being discussed, it is quite apparent that all people do not feel that way. If this does not bother you and you have nothing to add, why are you even spouting your drivel? Whether or not you agree with the fact that there are white or black shows is unimportant because there are a great number of people out there who do and that is what this subject is about. I am not making any value judgements (except my increasing judgement that you are an idiot) only making an observation.

growing up ,went to a live show to see him, have his albums etc...

End of

Then why bring it up repeatedly? You seem to miss the entire point of the original post. It was referring to the original Cosby show, not the current one. I could give a flying fuck about whether you like the current one or not.

In article , "James A. Dirmeyer" writes:

Wow ...did you ever kiss your mother with that mouth...? I wont sink to your level.

It Shrinks...???

[email] wrote in article ...

writes:

the

current

Oooooh I'm stunned by your witty retort. Exactly what is my level?

In article , "James A. Dirmeyer" writes:

Do you mean could or couldn't? There's a difference. Please clean up your language.

Mitchell Virchick wrote in article ...

writes:

your

I could give a flying fuck. But I really don't think that there is much of a difference. After all, exactly what is a flying fuck?

Try "Mile-High Club" in any search engine.

In , "James A. Dirmeyer" writes:

Ever heard of the 'Mile high Club'? I'll take a flying f*** any day.

Dave <[email] > wrote in article ...

of

No additional comments added. Just felt the need to replace the ***s in my fucks that someone defaced them with. Don't fuck with my fucks.

(Dragomir R. Radev ([email])) wrote:

Yea, in deliberately pointing this out, both you and CNN are racist.

Talk about useless news! Its only purpose is to be divisive.

:

:

Look, you asked for comments and you got mine. Look through the rest of this thread, there are others that aggree with me.

If all you were going to do is put out some cutsie one liner, why did you ask for? You say its "garbage", prove it. Otherwise your best place is on the receiving comments side.

(Dragomir R. Radev ([email])) wrote:

:

Oh, for heaven's sake. A person can't state a simple fact about race without being labelled a racist? What if I said "Black people generally have darker skin than white people." -- would that make me a racist?

The CNN statement is, basically, "'Seinfeld' is a highly rated show but scores very low among black people." A simple statement of fact. If, perhaps, they had then added some kind of judgemental conclusion, say "...this means black people must be stupid" or "...this means the 'Seinfeld' producers must be racists", _then_ we could get all snippy and start calling them nasty names.

Let's all try to keep a little perspective here, okay?

Bo

(L.B. Peep ([email])) wrote:

It is too broad a question you are asking. Depends on context. CNN presented this as news. I don't see it that way. There are many statistics you could uncover about _any_ group of people that aren't really newsworthy and would prove to be downright embarasing. This doesn't make them news. This doesn't mean they will do anything more than make a bad situation worse.

Let's try to keep a little perspective here, okay?

Well, I'm glad you are calling it a statement rather than news

Isn't just blurting it out a judgemental conclusion? What is blurting it out going to solve?

I get so tired of people being compared just to start some "constructive dialog". How many times have you actually experienced a constructive dialog? Is some useless statistic a 'la CNN really going to heal this societies wounds or have they just found a new fangled way to separate us?

It was the way it was presented (by both CNN and the origional poster).

Isn't "snippy" calling me a nasty name?

Mike Haight ([email]) wrote:

:

No, it isn't a judgemental conclusion! It doesn't have to solve anything. Just because it doesn't solve anything doesn't make it racist. However, I bet it did solve something. I wouldn't be surprised if producers at the show are thinking it over and making decisions based on the information.

No.

Daorn

Mike Haight wrote in article

Okay Mikey, I think anybody would have way to thin a skin in order to be embarassed that black people do not watch Seinfeld as much as white people.

Perspective? I believe you started with the blowing up out of when you got all hissy about the CNN news statement. And yes it is news. Just because it is not an earth shattering event does not mean that it should be ignored. I believe that to the people involved in the entertainment industry, especially NBC, it is extremely important.

No! You apply the judgement. Other people, such as myself, find it an interesting fact.

What do you mean by "blurting it out"? A news organization, such as CNN, comes up with a news item and presents it: "'Seinfeld' is a highly rated show but scores very low among black people." Any conclusions that pop into your mind as a result of this are YOUR conclusions, not theirs. It seems you resent being presented with facts about race, because you find them

News organizations would be seriously remiss if they heeded your wishes and refrained from "blurting out" newly-turned-up facts about race -- after all, how are we ever going to solve the racial divisions in this country if we refuse to acknowlege that they exist?

??? I didn't know I was supposed to be keeping count. <g> But seriously, the "constructive dialog" is the only way to solve the problems. We _have_ to keep stirring them up, keep talking about it. Otherwise, change will only come, eventually, in the form of race riots.

Sorry if the dialog embarrasses you, but, well, them's the breaks.

Bo

Well said. We are almost at the point where merely to raise a black-white question lables one a racist--making it improbable that there ever can be be any kind of rational, constructive dialogue concerning black-white relationships or issues. Ariosa

Well, how many black characters can you remember on Seinfeld? The exterminator, George's movie family, Mr. Morgan. Maybe a few others. What's the share for "Moesha" among white audiences?

Perhaps Seinfeld would have more a black audience if they used ebonic dialogue in their writing. Please don't flame me for saying that. First let me explain: The black shows that cater to an ethnic audience do seem to use a totally different type of writing using many ethnic words, double negatives, euphemisims, cliche's and even "inside" jokes - I feel a little left out when watching this type sitcom....It is more familiar and comfortable to watch Seinfeld, Cosby, Fraizer, and Friends, as they use language that I feel at home with, as many of those in the black community probably feel just the opposite. IMHO - please...only IMHO. the hermit

I guess not many black viewers appreciate the comedy on Seinfeld. The issue here is?

"... even though Seinfeld has the largest ratings share of all TV shows recently, it is only #68 in ratings share among black viewers.

Any comments?"

Only that it's a function of counterprogramming. Fox starts the night with two sitcoms with heavy appeal to black viewers, Martin and Living Single, then follows up with the high-intensity urban police drama, NY Undercover. It isn't that Seinfeld is so weak in appealing to black view- ers (he does pretty well with them in markets where Fox has no affiliate or a weak one)...it's just that another network chose to counter-program effectively. Bob Smith, afternoons WXXI-AM 1370, Rochester NY