Your Logical Error #1

I don't have an opinion on whether Elaine is Jewish, but people are making logical jumps that are not valid.

Just because someone says they are not XXXXX does not automatically mean that they are not XXXXX.

"There's a singles club dinner for homosexuals tonight; do you want to attend?"

"But I'm not homosexual." "Me neither."

Either of these parties could be homosexual but not be admitting it. So, though Elaine says she is not Jewish, she actually could be. She could be a non-practicing Jew that considers herself not Jewish because of her non-practice. However, one can convert to Judaism, but if one is born Jewish, one will forever be Jewish, regardless of any theological decisions one may make in one's life. Even if a Jew converted to Buddhism, that person is still a Jew. Being Jewish is more than the religion; it is being of a separate race/ethnicity.

So,

She could be a

of her

is born Jewish,

decisions one may

person is still

a separate

My encyclopedia states that there are five races: 1. Caucasians 2. Mongolians 3. Ethiopians 4. Americans 5. Malayans

Which encyclopedia are you using that includes Jewish? One from early 1940's German vintage perhaps?

On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Dave Farber wrote:

This is not even about the Elaine Jewish thing (although she is not). I am curious as to the name of the encyclopedia you are using. If you weren't aware, the classifications of people into the five categories you mentioned are highly racist and extremely unscientific. Take a look into the history of the eugenics movement, (which one could argue, became the starting place for the Nazi racial school of thought.) In essence, your evidence from your encyclopedia is just as bad as the comments made by the first poster, if not more. If you are interested in the history of the eugenics movement and the inherent danger in the classifications that you mentioned, then email me and I will be happy to forward you some writings and documents.

->>a Jew. Being Jewish is more than the religion; it is being of ->a separate ->>race/ethnicity. ->> ->My encyclopedia states that there are five races: ->1. Caucasians ->2. Mongolians ->3. Ethiopians ->4. Americans ->5. Malayans -> ->Which encyclopedia are you using that includes Jewish? One ->from early 1940's German vintage perhaps?

Read it again, "race/ethnicity." Or, ask an Orthodox Jew.

Americans are now a race? so being a Caucasians Ameriacan I belong to 2 races? If I get deported and has the govement changed my race?

You forgot the Indy 500 and the 100 yard dash.

Dave Farber wrote:

The Jewish people are decendants of the Elohim as mentioned in the Bible, when the Sons of Elohim came down and partnered with the "daughters of man"

visit http://www.rael.org for more info, but don't continue the discussion in the seinfeld NG as it will be way off topic.

Aramel

Here in VAncovuer, Canada, there are not that many Jews (relative to the populace). But at a pub, I did come across one-country-fellow who was considering finding ways to "infiltrate the Jewish World conspiracy to take over the world".

I asked, "What conspiracy?"

He replied that - relative to the population - Jews really dominate show-business and positions of financial importance. He listed off an impressive string of names of Jewish entertainers and financial moguls, and claimed if you took the percentage of Jews represented in our colleges, in industries for entertainment & business, as well as politics, it would be MUCH higher than their representation in the general population.

I dismiss the conspiracy nonsense, but don't write off the fact that as a race, Jews *seem* to do better. First off, is this true? Second, if so, what's the reason? Third, does over-representation in fields of success spark jealousy among the "Gentiles" and lead to anti-semitism? Fourth, does any of this matter, and if not, why were there so many Jews on this NG that insisted Julia Louis-Dreyfuss was Jewish and so many Gentiles that insisted she wasn't? :)

Gussel Timer wrote:

Well it doesn't have to be superiority as a "race", but perhaps Jews as a culture and a family unit place more emphasis on success than other people. And you can add physicians and attorneys to your list of professions which are dominated by Jews.

And of course jealousy (and fear) is the foundation for all racism in the world, the classic example being the ancient European's fear about the African male's larger penis and increased sexual virility.

In article , [email] says...

Citations please? This is an old myth based on sheer nonsense.

On Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:05:23 GMT, [email] wrote:

it is true. the majority of jews are owners of newspapers and so on, they even control the media. remember at one time when a certainperson made a comment about the jews, the jews in hollywood then made his life hell for him.

[email] (F Jabbar) wrote:

You're statement has got to be the biggest pile of crap I have ever read. No one outside of the "white power neo-nazi" groups believe that the Jews control the media. Besides if you have ever looked inside a newspaper you will see how "anti-Israel" 95% of them are which eliminates your theory right there

People who make comments such as these -- which are obviously false since the media today is controlled by large international corporations such as ABC/Disney and GE/NBC -- never ask the next question. If "the Jews" (whoever they may be, I've never met them) control the media, perhaps they earned that control by hard work and excellent output. Antisemitic messages such as the one posted implicitly assumes that if Jews are over-represented in the media, it must be because they are "conspiring". That was what Hitler said, remember. He made the argument that the Jews so powerful that they were conspiring to bring Germany down. And the German people believed that they were so powerful even as they were being slaughtered. Didn't anyone care to ask, if they were so powerful, how can we be able to kill them all?

On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 23:54:14 GMT, [email] (Joshua Frohwein) wrote:

Gussel Timer wrote:

Take this from a Brooklyn Jew whose parents came from Russia in the early 1920's, with virtually no money and no education. My parents repeated the following over and over - "go to school, study, get a good education and get a good job. " That was it. They didn't know anything about school except that you received an education; they figured that if you worked for a big company , you were a success. We are not superior! Like AVIS, We try harder; We also want our children to do better than us. maybe that is the secret.

Portions Omitted

Don't forget the fact that at the early part of this century, many "professional jobs" were denied to immigrants, and that only certain jobs were open to them. As they became the majority in that job, they probably tended to "hire their own", thus you have Irish Cops, Italian Grocers, Jewish shopkeepers, etc. Show business was not looked on with favor as a profession, thus open to all comers. Many burlesque performers were Jewish for example, and thus moved into radio, TV, movies, etc. When filmmaking started big-time, it was an open field for the sons of Jews in the rag-trade, and they took advantage of an opportunity. The fact that it seems that way today is probably more tradition or "family business" or nepotism than conspiracy.

     ** Look at the software field today.  Because the demand for
        people who know what they're doing is so great, companies
        can't afford to put up arbitrary barriers.  Consequently
        you see a lot of immigrants who haven't (=gasp=) even lost
        their accents and learned good English yet...  folks from
        China, India, Russia... with good jobs in software.

        I think that it's only once a field is established that
        a company can afford to close the door to a qualified
        minority candidate, trusting that a qualified applicant
        from the majority group won't be too hard to find.

        When the Jews hit Hollywood, Hollywood was so hungry for
        talent that it'd take anyone.  And remember, nobody knew
        that the movies would be the gold mine they turned out
        to be... it wasn't obvious that the positions the Jews
        were moving into were so desirable.  (My own grandfather
        told Louis B. Mayer:  "The movies are a fad.  You'll
        lose your shirt.")
                                               Nosnivel

I don't know what encyclopedia you got that from, but these are the five:

Caucasian Negro Indian Malaysian Mongolian

Jim

[email] (Huckleberry) writes:

I don't have an opinion on whether Elaine is Jewish, but people are making logical jumps that are not valid.

Just because someone says they are not XXXXX does not automatically mean that they are not XXXXX.

Using your logic then, let me be the first to say that even though Elaine says her last name is spelled Benes, that it is in fact really spelled Hakjsdhfkaw. In fact, her name isn't even really Elaine. It's Bob.

this one's really FUNNY!!! LOL.

:

:

:

- I don't have an opinion on whether Elaine is Jewish, but people are making - logical jumps that are not valid. - - Just because someone says they are not XXXXX does not automatically mean that - they are not XXXXX. - -Using your logic then, let me be the first to say that even though Elaine says -her last name is spelled Benes, that it is in fact really spelled Hakjsdhfkaw. -In fact, her name isn't even really Elaine. It's Bob.

True. But people don't usually lie about their names or want to hide it. People often want to conceal their ethnic heritage. Many people who had German last names changed them during the WWs, for example.

In article Huckleberry wrote: {Huckleberry lost the attrib, but we all know it was} BLo who wrote:

Huckleberry, you are talking too abstract! Address the point of BLo's post. Suggest a reason, and make it reasonable, why Elaine would choose to conceal her 'ethnic heritage' to her friends.

Okay. HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION (Keep in mind that I would put money on her NOT BEING JEWISH): Elaine's ethnic heritage is Jewish. However, she no longer practices Judaism. Therefore, she says she is not Jewish, but is referring to her religion, not her ethnic heritage. Why? So her friends don't think that she is Jewish in the religious sense. In fact, she may have converted to Christianity, hence all the Christian clues. She says she is not Jewish so as to not confuse any aquaintances about her religion, which is not currently Judaism.

You are arguing a point that has no evidence other than what was created in your mind. I suppose it stems from your belief that some Jews want to hide the fact that they are Jewish. This is true but I don't think your argument is compelling since you don't provide one shred of evidence based on anything from the show.

My argument obviously is compelling; you admitted aboe that "This is true..." THAT is my argument, the possibility, not the actuality. My argument is only that there is a possibility. Not a probability. And no, no evidence from the show; I never claimed that either. This aspect of the thread HAS become an abstract tangent off of the religion of Elaine. It has become a discussion on whether Jewish people never cross themselves, send Xmas cards, etc. I only was finding fault with statements that alleged such universal conclusions from circumstantial evidence.

the only error here is allowing you out in public.