Ratboy, Lulu, you're not alone (aka how I learned to stop bitching and love the finale)

Reading this group can be very frustrating, with all the naysayers spouting "it sucked", and "I didn't laugh" so I wasted my life and offering no constructive criticism whatsoever. And so I just wanted to let people like Ratboy and Lulu know that I'm glad that there's someone else out there who enjoyed the finale.

I think that it was just what I wanted to be...there were parts that I would have changed or omitted. Geraldo comes to mind, for one. Having watched the finale twice now (the ending 3 times) I think the "news" reports were a waste. Some things were a bit out of character to me(Estelle's proposition, Jackie Chiles saying how Kramer is always looking good or whatever he said). I don't think the 3 poking fun at the fat guy was out of character as others have implied. It would have been out of character for Kramer, but he didn't say anything. The flashbacks were unnecessary and I didn't like them because somehow they "insulted" me. Discuss what happened, "he mugged me for my rye!"--don't show us the old clip. As much as I love the "No more soup for you. Next!" clip from Elaine, I know it by heart. I don't need to see it again. The finale shouldn't be for the casual viewer. If you don't know the reference, TS.

I liked the ending. Returning to the shirt was great, especially the "I guess we have". There won't be a return, and I think I would be disappointed if there turns out to be one. I'm convinced that they whole year thing was just sort of a "life goes on", even after our "punishment", and it will then be the same as usual. Remember, no hugs, no learning. The standup in prison was great, although the "no exit" was truly the end. I do wish they had managed to get in "not that there's anything wrong with that" b/c it's been one of my favorites, but I'm glad they didn't just throw it in. For the sake of throwing it in.

And I really liked the little things. The music when everyone is going to Latham. Puddy in the 8-ball jacket. The different takes on the theme (especially the "verdict" version) song. The fact that George has to scream out "it was MOOPS". _That_ was classic. When the bubble boy took the stand, I knew what he was going to say, and I knew that George would have to scream "Moops". And I'm glad he did.

It's weird that everyone is lauding the clip show. The only part that I really enjoyed was the bloopers and the "(Time of your life)" part. I forget the whole name of the song. I've seen these clips before, many, many times, I don't need to see them again.

Perhaps the acting was, as others have pointed out, listless. I didn't really notice, but when (in the distant future) I watch it again, I'll look for it. I agree with people that the finale wasn't ROTF funny. I don't actually think that too many episodes this season were funny. At least not like the old ones. Heck, I really loved "The Betrayal" while most everyone else hated it and thought it sucked. It worked for me.

I won't spout the elitist tripe that only "true" fans got the show. I utterly respect the opinions of others (I know, I should get with the program, it's the internet, after all) whom voice them in an articulate fashion. On the other hand, I have no respect for the wastes of oxygen that come in and say, "it wasn't *funny*. It sucked." without a word as to _why_ they believe it sucked. It's like the comic store guy from The Simpsons "It was the worst Seinfeld ever. I was on the internet registering my outrage immediately" "Yeah, but TV gives you free entertainment, yada, yada, yada..." "Worst Seinfeld ever." And I just know that one of these clowns will correct me for some trivial miswording of the above. I encourge you to do so as you further prove my point. Since when did the show owe you jack shit? You didn't like it, boo hoo. That's not cause to bash the show and the people behind it. Talk about why you didn't like it.

A question to the people who loved Seinfeld, hated the finale, and can actually form complete sentences (and no, 2 out of 3 isn't good enough). What sort of thing did you really want. I can understand wanting a funny episode--it could have been funnier. Would you have wanted them to just pretend that there was nothing different about this episode than any other: it's just longer and the last? Why? Wouldn't you have missed the closure, or do you feel that the whole idea of closure in a show about "nothing" is a nonsensical notion? Perhaps it has to do with why you watched the show? I watched it each week from probaby 1993 on (so no, I'm not a true old timer, although I wish I had been, because I do feel the older episodes are the funniest.), and I watched because I loved the characters. I didn't watch for them to entertain me, although they did, sometimes with chuckles or smiles, more infrequently with true belly-laughter. But I watched because I loved them for everything that they were and perhaps more importantly weren't.

After all, just because you're condemned to repeat the past, doesn't mean you shouldn't remember it.

I think that I would have been disappointed if it didn't reference all these
things.  I was prepared for the show to end, and this was a great way to end it
in my opinion.   It was the closure that I needed.  Jerry, I needed to know
that Elaine always loved you-nited airlines.   George, I always knew you
cheated in the contest.

Love it or hate it, the show's over. Jerry, Jason, Michael, Julia: Thanks for the finale. Thanks for 9 wonderful years, and many more in syndication. Thanks for the memories. Most of all...thanks for "nothing".

Dennis

-------- ...each one who enters imagines himself to be the first to enter whereas he is always the last term of a preceding series even if the first term of a succeeding one, each imagining himself to be first, last, only and alone, whereas he is neither first nor last nor only nor alone in a series originating in and repeated to infinity. -James Joyce "Ulysses"

Ignoring the insult that began the above quoted paragraph, I will try to answer your question. I think, first of all, that the people posting the "I hated it -it sucked" w/o giving specific reasons are doing so because it is hard to articulate sometimes why something is funny or enjoyable & why it isn't. It just is or isn't. But I do have some specific problems with the finale:

Firstly, the manner in which they placed JGE&K in Mass was overly contrived and took way too long. The show's plots have always been byzantine in their complexity, but perhaps because this was over an hour and because instead of each character having his/her own storyline as usual there was really only one storyline, getting to the crux of the show - the trial - seemed to drag on forever - G&J meet the NBC exec's, they get use of the plane, they decide where to go, boarding the plane, Kramer falls into the cockpit, plane nearly crashes, etc, etc. Instead of each of these things being funny, they seemed to be just plot devices to get the characters in this city so they could be arrested. And regarding Kramer - when he started jumping up & down in the plane, it seemed so forced and obvious (to me, mind you) and again, contrived is the word that comes to mind. Also, there seemed to be alot of just "filling up time". For God's sake, what was the scene with George's mother & the judge all about? It went nowhere. And the scenes with Geraldo, and THEN his reporter in Mass just dragged on - they really seemed to be there to just take up time.

I understand the no hugging, no learning stuff. But I'm sure even above and beyond those 2 rules there was an even more important one - there should be LAUGHING. And that was what I missed - I didn't find much that was funny enough to laugh at. All these people talking about how profound the ending was - it was Camus/Sartre/Goethe/Shakespeare all rolled up into one apparently - miss the point that this was never a serious show - it was a funny show that made people LAUGH. Hell, even crippled women on broken wheelchairs were played for laughs. If Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld didn't intend for people to find this finale particulary funny, then they succeeded. What would I have wanted in the finale? I don't know - definately nothing hokey like Jerry and Elaine proclaiming their love for each other - I really didn't dislike the premise of the show, I just didn't like the execution (as many posters have said).

I will always watch the show in reruns. It was one of the greatest TV shows of all time. (In fact, I just caught the Keith Hernandez episode where Kramer and Newman reenact the spitting episode a la the Zapruder (sp?) film - imagine, the show could even make the Kennedy assasination funny).

Thanks

Cheryl

Obviously, the insult wasn't aimed at you, but it was aimed at the people who respond with "your mother's a whore" to any sort of criticism. I didn't care to argue with them.

I agree with this, but why bother posting that again and again and again. If you give reasons, then you have a discussion, anything else is "is not", "is too" kindergarten crap.

one

Very true. I pretty much thought that the first 20 minutes was poor because it was slow and it was contrived. In retrospect, I think that it was meant to be like that as a satire. I also think that it didn't work as well as it was meant to. But I respect what they were _trying_ to do (at least what I think (hope?) they were trying to do).

Instead of each of these things being funny, they seemed to

Amen! No argument here from me at all. I think I mentioned in my original post that I thought Geraldo was a total bust, and that I didn't understand why Estelle tried to seduce the judge. Babs Kramer might have been a better choice if she had appeared since that one episode made her out to be "loose" (since I don't remember the actual quote that was used). There was too much filler. Especially in retrospect.

-

And played well, I might add. Not to mention cancer, and the bubble boy, and just about anything and everything else. But I did laugh--or at least chuckle. I certainly didn't laugh like I did in past episodes. I never claimed that I did. It wasn't as funny as past episodes. Not by half. But it was humorous. To me it was funny in a "heh" rather than a "ha ha" way. Whatever that means. As you mentioned, it's difficult to articulate.

I don't think that they did want this show to be particularly funny. Just insightful and thoughful. And I think it was that.

I really didn't dislike the premise of

The execution could have been better, perhaps. I don't know how, but it could have been. But I don't think it was horrendous as everyone seems to be shouting from the rooftops.

No doubt that was one of the greatest scenes of all time. I don't think that it _could_ have been matched. _That_ really is the bottom line. They brought closure as well as it could have been done. It could and should have been tighter, but it still was a great finale, and I still think the ending was incredible. Predictable, maybe, but necessary.

Dennis

Dennis Carlson wrote in article ...

who

Personally, I only use that phrase to remember which level I parked my car on. ;-)

Dennis Carlson wrote:

What was even FUNNIER about this scene is that Wayne Knight played the SAME part in the JFK file by Oliver Stone. Wayne played 'Numa', an aid to Garrison, and when Garrison re-enacted the scene in the movie (that Seinfeld parodied) Wayne Knight took the same place.

ROTFL!!!!

On 16 May 1998 03:26:20 GMT, [email] wrote:

I wanted a better-executed show with less filler material. I don't mind the disturbing overtones to the finale (actually, for my taste, that's the caviar of comedy... think Dr. Strangelove, SCTV, Kids in the Hall...), but it was just too half-hearted and slapdash for me to accept, ultimately.

That was my favorite moment. It was a tiny drop of sentimentality that really made the ending poignant. They're going off to jail for a year, their lives have been ruined (right? You don't think they could go back to their previous lives, except for Kramer), and she still can't bear to tell him how she feels, and has felt for the past nine years.

I agree that there was too much filler, but in what sense was it too half-hearted and slapdash for you to accept? I guess I am curious _what_ made it so. Perhaps it's impossible to quantify? It either worked or it didn't?

I disagree that their lives have been ruined. I think that the opposite was in fact true. The whole "we'll be back in a year" told me that nothing would change about them. In spite of this "punishment" it would still eventually be back to normal for all of them. Same "callous" ways, no hugs, no learning. Which made it perfect. And Elaine _did_ tell him how she felt. Or at least she told the 80 million plus people watching. Again, I feel that makes all the difference. That's my interpretation, and why it worked for _me_.

Dennis