Jul 23, 2002, 1:04 PM ET·50 posts by 16 posters·alt.tv.seinfeld
❓ Question
Users compile and verify a comprehensive list of all the jobs held by each main character throughout Seinfeld's run, with corrections and additions from the FAQ.
I think I've got this right, but tell me if I'm missing anything.
Jerry: same job, entire series
Kramer: Calvin Klein model, author, bagel store clerk, president of Kramerica Industries
Elaine: editor with Pendant Publishing, assistant to Mr. Pitt, writer, then President, then writer again for J. Peterman
George: real estate salesman for Rick Barr Properties, unemployed for quite some time, one week working for Tuttle (leaves to work for Pensky, which, as we are aware...), assistant to the Traveling Secretary for the Yankees, two episodes at Playnow, then on to Kruger
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:04:20 -0400, techboi wrote:
Nope:
FROM THE FAQ
===============
Jerry:
Waiter at a fat camp (before the show)
Umbrella salesman (before the show)
Stand up comedian
Television Comedy Writer
Kramer:
H & H Bagels (on strike since before the beginning of the
show)
Brant-Leland
Author of coffee table book
Actor ??
Underwear model
Stand-in at police line ups (mike added this)
Actor for medical students (mike added this)
Stand in for TV soap opera (mike added this)
Elaine:
Pendant Publishing (Mr. Lippman)
Personal assistant for Mr. Pitt
Writer for the J. Peterman catalog
Cartoonist for 'The New Yorker' (Mr. Elinoff)
George:
Job as a teenager
Dairy Queen
Reason for leaving: Put feet in the ice maker. [The
Millennium]
July 1989 - April 1991 Real Estate Agent - Rick Bar
Properties.
Manager: Mr. Levitan
Notable achievement: None.
Reason for leaving: Boss wouldn't share private bathroom.
December 1991 - December 1991 Car parker
Manager: Self-managed, took over for Sid.
Notable achievement: None.
Reason for leaving: Caused some accidents and disrupted
filming of a Woody Allen movie.
December 1991 Manuscript reader - Pendant Publishing
Manager: Mr. Lippman
Notable achievement: None.
Reason for Leaving: Didn't realize sex with the cleaning
woman was 'frowned upon".
1992-1993 Television Comedy Writer
September 1993 Hand model - Specialty Models
Manager: Elsa Carlisle
Notable achievement: Modeled one wristwatch.
Reason for leaving: Burned hands on hot iron in 'puffy shirt'
incident.
November 1993 Sales Rep. - Sanlak (rest stop supplies)
Manager: Mr. Tuttle.
Notable achievement: Reorganized Penske file.
Reason for leaving: Was never really hired in the first place
(or quit, thinking he had a job waiting for him at
Penske).
May 1994 - May 1997 Assistant to the Travelling Secretary-New
York Yankees
Manager: Mr. Wilhelm/George Steinbrenner
Notable achievement: Implemented switch from polyester to
cotton uniforms.
Reason for leaving: Traded to Tyler Chicken in Little Rock.
September 1997-September 1997 - Play Now (sporting goods)
Manager: Mr. Thomasoulo.
Notable achievement: Pretended to be handicapped.
Reason for leaving: Company went bankrupt.
October 1997 - October 1997 Computer sales for "Costanza and
Son".
Manager: Frank Costanza
Notable achievement: Faking sale of 50 PCs to Art Vandelay.
Reason for leaving: Faked sale of 50 PCs to Art Vandelay.
November 1997-May 1998 Krueger Industrial Smoothing
Manager: Mr. Krueger
Notable achievement:
Reason for leaving:
When Elaine is fixing George up with Cindy(?), she mentions that George tried to poison his boss. Is Elaine referring to when George and Elaine slipped a mickey into Mr. Levitan's drink?
Yes - and that is more accurately his reason for leaving than the non-sharing of the bathroom. He would have got his job back if it hadn't been for the mickey-slipping.
Right, which is why things like gambling, lawsuits, or an oil tanker bladder wouldn't be listed. But I think running the "Peterman Reality Tour" definitely qualifies as a job.
And if you include contract writing work like his coffee table book, I think helping to ghostwrite Peterman's autobiography would count, too.
If you disagree, well... You better vote the way we want you to, or there's gonna be big trouble! [cracks whip]
That would go on Kramer's Sch. C for his taxes for self-employment. He could write-off the cost of the bus rental, mileage, the snicker's bars, etc. Of course, Kramer doesn't know what a write-off is. :-)
Next someone needs to create Kramer's tax returns. :-)
East
That would be 1099s from the book publisher, still free-lance/self-employment.
But how would someone self-employed react if you claimed they don't have a job? Or that they're "jobless"? Or that the work they do "isn't a real job"? If you go by the dictionary definition, the self-employeed have jobs because it's a "regular activity performed in exchange for payment". There's no mention of working for someone else, and it doesn't say that payment can't come from customers you drive around in a bus. :-)
In any event, if those contracted gigs don't meet the criteria of "jobs", then some of the items in that list will also need to go. For example, if "author of of a coffee table book" is included, then "co-ghostwriter of J. Peterman book" should be added, too.
No, the self-employed list a title for an activity of time on a resume naming some of the more major clients. For example,
01/01/2000-10/01/2001 Industrial Consultant Clients: Industrial Smoothing where I create a special set of tools for cleaning the ears on old lady liberty. Vandaley Industries as chemical process consultant improved process quality over latex in second stage drying.
I guess for Kramer, he would be a consultant of sorts for his activities that weren't associated with his own company , except for things like acting in the Woody Allen film since that would be covered from the Production Company. That means that Kramer would have to be a member of SAG (Screen Actors Guild) if he worked on a Woody film being union. So under Kramer's affiliations on his resume, it should say SAG (Screen Actors Guild).
You're missing the point. We're not talking about a resume. We're talking about a list of the Seinfeld characters' jobs, and what qualifies as a "job". As I mentioned in the other post, Kramer's work is a "job" even if he's self-employeed, and even if the money doesn't come from some a regular paycheck issued by a corporation.
My question above was intended to show another point of view: the people I know who are self-employeed would probably be offended if you told them they don't have a "job", in the same manner a stay-at-home mother would be upset if you told her she doesn't "work".
For the purposes of the list of Seinfeld characters' jobs, Kramer should have more entries. This is especially true given the kind of things already listed for him, and given the dictionary definition of "job".
Now, if anyone disagrees with me we're going to settle this the OLD- FASHIONED way with a brutal game of "once, twice, three, shoot". Straight choose, three takes it, no disputes. That's it, you gotta win three. Oh, and I want "evens".
It looked like a resume, so that's what appeared was being put together to me.
As an accountant told me (a CPA, with no visable signs of a sniffing problem) that there are women who have an income of $100k a year, yet still put down housewife on their tax return. A stay-at-home mother is a real job, no doubt. The things Kramer did were more like free-lance work and self-employed start-ups if nothing else -- all jobs. When Kramer's motives were towards making a profit as his end-goal, then it was a job regardless of the status of it. When he was faking being a doctor, that was not a job then.
No disagreements, I got the impression you were building a Kramer resume.
On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 03:15:37 GMT, John Twernbold wrote:
I think there is a subtlety in the word job that implies a "position"; that one is "working for another"; that one is a "cog in the wheel of a corporation or business", that one is "salaried", that one could be "fired from their job"; that one could be promoted to a diferent "job". etc...
I still don't agree. I would bet if you asked your friends, "Do you have a job?" They would respond, "No, I am self-employed."
I think they would be offended if you said they didn't "work", not that they don't have a "job".. In fact I think they would be proud of the latter.
My father owned his own business for over 30 years, yet never referred to himself as "self-employed". If you asked him if he had a job, he'd have said "Yes, I own a drugstore". He had a job, just like Kramer had a job running the "Peterman Reality Tour". My father has since sold the drugstore but still works there as a pharmacist. Would you say he never had a job before, but he has a job now? Why?
But if that's the interpretation to be used, then some of items on that list shouldn't be there. As I've pointed out a couple times in other messages, if the list is going to include "author of a coffee table book" then it should also include "co-ghostwriter of the J.Peterman autobiography". Why is one a "job", but not the other? The Peterman thing was more "working for another" than the coffee table book. And neither was salaried.
In fact, Mike, YOU were the one who added "stand-in at police line ups". Considering how he got that gig ("Hey any of you guys want to be in the lineup? Make a quick 50 bucks?") it doesn't really fit with the idea of "cog in the wheel of a corporation or business", or of being "salaried", and it didn't have the possibility of being promoted.
There are also volunteer efforts like answering the phones at PBS. Would the AIDS Walk be volunteer? Then there is community service picking up the trash for stealing the lobsters.
<<<<....... My father has since sold the drugstore but still works there as a pharmacist. .......>>>
Can he get us some Today sponges?
^^^^^^ "Art is often hailed as the grandest expression of human spirit, but we know now ... that the grandest expression of human spirit is whatever it takes for a man or woman to rush back into a burning building to save more people."
On 16 Aug 2002 02:32:24 -0700, [email] (Chris) wrote:
I think you read it correctly. I believe the word "job" is different from "work'. "Job" implies a 9-5 (or 11-7 ha ha) salaried position in some organization. It is different from "self-employed". But John Twerbold disagrees with my definition as is his want.
<<<I thought George was a Marine Biologist, he did save a whale. Do you count that he always wanted to be an architect?>>>
No, no, no. George always wanted to *pretend* to be an architect.
^^^^^^ "Art is often hailed as the grandest expression of human spirit, but we know now ... that the grandest expression of human spirit is whatever it takes for a man or woman to rush back into a burning building to save more people."
This was pure manifestation of Jerrys derranged mind. He told the lady in question George was a Marine Biologist.
When he tells George, George gets upset, saying
"Why couldn't you have told her I was an architect, I have always wanted to pretend to be an architect"
Or I am mixing up two quotes here. But the whole banter is quite amusing, George says he knows how to pretend to be an architect.
In the end he resigns himself to being a Marine Biologist, and goes forth to achieve one of the greatest filmographic rescues of a whale in the history.
A small point, as a child, a long time before I saw Seinfeld, I wanted to be a Marine Biologist.
Even though I was young, I assumed it would let me snorkel in coral reefs, with women scientists in bikinis (I developed young...)
Later in life, I had a passion for Architecture, especially since I took and interest in CAD. I still work on plans to build my own dream house.
On the plane a while back, I met a landscape architect, which dispelled alot os myths I held about landscape architecture, another job I wanted because I thought I could cut trees down all day and dig holes in mud.
That would be volunteer work, but I don't think Jerry would want to claim that. It would be illegal to handle the US mail delivery like that without authorization. What kind of authority is Neumann to grant that, when he can't even get himself transferred to Hawaii, the most sought after postal route, where the stamps are air is so dewy sweet, you don't even have to lick the stamps.
This reminds me of my cousin (also in Ireland) who had to pick a US state university to go to and complete a year of college. He choose (and got) Hawaii.
Work hours start later in NYC than say, compared to the midwest. Most people don't get to the office until after 9 AM or later, and some work late. If you want to reach someone at their desk who works in NYC, unless you know when they get there, I usually wait until 10 AM to call if I need to speak to them. The culture behind this seems that it is a long commute to work. Oddly enough, it seems that the people who don't live in NYC that come in from CT or NJ come in a little sooner than people who live in NYC who walk for the whole trip or take the subway for most of it. This is mostly commented on by the people who have to take a train for an hour to get into NYC, and notice they get to the office before people who live in NYC. So the idea of calling an 8 AM meeting would be insane if you expected anyone to seriously show up to it. I am speaking for most office jobs. If you watch the local news in New York, they show traffic moving along at around 5:30 AM, so there are people who have to "get up early".
I don't know about being longer, but that are later in the day. Since people generally come into work later, they usually have lunch around 1 PM.
I think most of their subway rides from each other in Seinfeld would only be like 10 minutes or so. I have not mapped it out, but the impression is that they are only 10 blocks away from each other. So it is possible to take a subway ride and walk and the whole thing take like 10 minutes if they were close enough. Most certainly not worth the trip to talk to someone in person for 2 minutes when it could be done over the phone and then leave, but then we wouldn't have all the characters in the room together. If it is not raining, you can get a cab and this can be quick too. I got the impression that perhaps George and Elaine are on their way to work and pass Jerry's apartment, which make this seem all the more likely. But the suggestion to get it all on one map would be a good idea. I don't know how to get maps.yahoo.com or places like that to plot more than a couple of points. So if they travel on their lunch hour to pop in they could get back on time.
Typical American - forget we Brits even exist! Next thing, you'll be telling me my accent sounds like Saddam Hussein! ;-)
"All right, brace yourself, Lubeck. You are about to be launched via pastry back to the wedding of one of the most dashing and romantic Nazi sympathizers of the entire British Royal family."
Absolutely. Why even mention other countries when you can talk about Am-er-i-ca?
I agree. All discussions are totally invalid unless they are centred...oops, sorry, centered, around Am-er-i-ca.
True. We rarely think about work or making money here in the UKoGBaNI - we spend most of our time staring at bobbies on bicycles two-by-two, visiting the Tower of London and talking about our wonderful Queen, Gord bless 'er.
Hmm? I don't get the impression that they're at Jerry's place in the morning; it seems like they're usually there on nights or weekends. Remember, Jerry eats cereal throughout the day, so don't let that throw you.
If a character does leave to "go to work", it could be as you said and they're on a lunch break. Or perhaps it's a Saturday afternoon and they're just going into the office for a couple hours.