Season 9... Reconsidered?

When I first discovered this Usenet group and started posting here, season 9 was in full swing. I kind of regret monitoring fans' opinions of the season 9 shows here in this forum because the majority opinion of these shows was about the same as Elaine's opinion of "The English Patient": "It Suuuuucked!!" There was one poster in particular (IIRC he was a banker in Arizona) who was a non-stop fountain of negativity. He kept bitching about how the show had grown too silly, was divorced from reality, and lacked the inventiveness and the... relateability (so sue me if it's not really a word!) of the early episodes.

Well, what's interesting to me now is that many of the current crop of posters are so fond of season 9 ep's. This recent "favorite episode" thread had more ep's from season 9 than any other (eg "The Voice", "The Merv Griffin Show", "The Betrayal"). I guess my point is that the defenders of season 9 from the old days now stand vindicated. Well...., either that or you're all freaking nuts!

:-)

"stevehoran" wrote in news:r7qRa.8272$Je.6931@fed1read04:

Can't speak for others of course but,

Season 9 is almost a different show completely from season 1. No to say that it was worse (although I greatly prefer earlier seasons myself) but comparing early and late with this show is exceedingly difficult. The show morphed into something completely new.

I seperate the show into two parts: Pre-Elanie working for Peterman and Post-Elaine working for Peterman.

It was at about that time at which I identify a pretty clear change in feel of the show. I like both pre and post but I'm quite sure that I enjoy the earlier ones more.

Just my .02

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message news:sAqRa.69076$GL4.18893@rwcrnsc53...

I can see that. The final destination of the show was total silliness and the Peterman character definitely pointed in a silly direction!

I think that the show gradually changed from the beginning through the peak seasons of 4 through 7 and then through the final two seasons. The conventional wisdom is that the show changed dramatically between seasons 7 and 8 with the departure of Larry David as story editor and contributing writer but I think it was a more gradual transition than that.

feel

"stevehoran" wrote in news:fjyRa.8292$Je.2327@fed1read04:

These are good points. I think a case could be made that there were three distinct era's of the show.

Seasons 1-3 - These episodes are my favorite. The show was more earthy and real during this period. If you watch a season 8-9 alongside a season 1 the season 1 almost seems grainy and or colorless when compared to the vibrant and almost cartoony season 9. The humor during this period was certainly much more New York-centric. Elaine is at her best during this period and George plays very well here. Kramer is still a bit off of his best.

Seasons 4-7 - Most people I think would consider this the "Golden Age" of the show. Kramer explodes into the character everyone loves here. This is also where "relationship" George comes into his own. Late in this "era" Elaine begins a slide, as her character leaves behind her sweet and sassy side and becomes more cantankerous. This slide is completed with her working with Peterman (and from that point on she clearly becomes my least favorite character)

Seasons 8-9 - The best way to describe this "era" is colorful. The shows here are almost garish when compared to earlier work. Kramer, while still quite funny, has pushed beyond his peak. Elaine is bearly tolerable and George is hit or miss as well. I thought the show was a bit tired at this point. It almost felt like they thought they couldn't be subtle and still be funny anymore so they pushed ahead in a more silly vein. I still laugh at these episodes but it is as though I'm laughing at the shadows of what once was.

Episodes from seasons 4-7 are often (at least for me) difficult to place chronologically. I see shades of both early and late during this period which leads me to agree with you that the evolution of the show was more gradual than most people think. There was a pretty big change from 7 to 8 though.

Thoughtfully, Joe

Interesting post. Any thoughts on Jerry's character through the years?

[email] (SeemaJ1) wrote in news:20030720220918.20151.00000277@mb- m29.aol.com:

Jerry remains the most constant throughout the run of the show. I think the most striking change in Jerry is his affluence. Late Jerry is much more financially secure than early Jerry. (An obvious reflection of real life there I'm sure)

I think the character Jerry suffers late for much the same reason as all of the characters do. A significant lack of subtlety. Jerry was charmingly immature in the early episodes but in later seasons (particularly 8-9) I felt like the writers were too blunt in showing us just how immature he was.

So, while Jerry changed perhaps less than the other principle characters he was not immune to the changing vibe of the show.

Of course there is the possibility that I've gone right out of my mind.

Yours in fandom, Joe

Joe wrote:

George: "I have looked at that possibility. There's nothing there."

Kramer: "Well, I'd look again."

• from "The Chicken Roaster"

Joe wrote in message news:...

Well said. I see a major difference between the earlier and later Seinfelds as being the use of PROPS. Props are used in the earlier shows, but they are not the focal point as they are in the laters eps. For example, "The Butter Shave"; Kramer's use of butter and the hot tub he sits in. Also, George coming into Jerry's apartment with the electric wheelchair; as if we were supposed to find humor in the fact that George was using this prop. Or "The Apology"; the use of Kramer's shower and garbage disposal in the shower. "The Merv Griffin Show"; Kramer actually putting a set/stage props in his apartment. "The Reverse Peephole"; prop. "The Slicer"; PROP!!! It appears when they used a prop in the earlier seasons; it was a vehicle for some other joke and not the center of attention. An example of this is "The Pez Dispenser"'; when Jerry puts it on the chair during the recital, Elaine cracks up and has to leave the auditorium. It was a universally relatable experience, (laughing in a place that you're not supposed to). But the real joke didn't lie in the physicality of the Pez dispenser. (Although it did look funny just sitting there on the chair. :) An analogy for the later seasons could be; assuming that the audience would find humor in George getting hit with a pie in his face. An analogy for the ealier seasons could be; the audience finding humor in the fact that George was upset that he got hit because he bought the pie at a discount. In other words, the writing (in general), appeared alot more sophisticated in the ealier seasons. In some of those really bad/proppy episodes; some of the cast actually look lost in what to do in a scene. And their slapstick/physical humor is uncomfortably executed, (especially Jerry!). But the later seasons DEFINITELY have their great moments. "I'm a bootlegger!" (George/"The Little Kicks"). "I must be at the nexus of the universe!" (Kramer/"The Maid"). George preparing his whole life for that moment in "The Frogger". And "The (Marble) Rye" episode is Seinfeld in perfection. (Although season 7 is on "the cusp":) It was one of those classic/multi-layered episodes. Any interaction between George/The Costanzas and Mr. and Mrs. Ross is great. "The Roaster" was another later classic. "Vile weed!"

As far as the later seasons are concerned, the bottom line is; if you are a Senfeld fan, you will put up with the show's shortcomings.

"stevehoran" wrote in news:r7qRa.8272$Je.6931@fed1read04:

Can't speak for others of course but,

Season 9 is almost a different show completely from season 1. No to say that it was worse (although I greatly prefer earlier seasons myself) but comparing early and late with this show is exceedingly difficult. The show morphed into something completely new.

I seperate the show into two parts: Pre-Elanie working for Peterman and Post-Elaine working for Peterman.

It was at about that time at which I identify a pretty clear change in feel of the show. I like both pre and post but I'm quite sure that I enjoy the earlier ones more.

Just my .02

Joe

"stevehoran" writes:

It was Ian Clarke... oh, wait, wrong newsgroup