Some say a show has to evolve. Seinfeld started out not doing much. But they added the Elaine character, interlocking plots, parodies of movies and other things, parallels ( for example, George is tempted by a sponge bath, Jerry by the naked woman across the street and Elaine by JFK JR in the masturbation ep.) JA ripped of Woody Allen and then changed the George character to be more like Larry David. Kramer was slow, then MR played him at hyperspeed. These are good evolutions but now the show has gone too far out there with their plotlines. George has always been crazy but now he is totally insane. He has always screamed; now he overdoes it. He would work up to the scream but now he goes right into it. Elaine has always been assertive but now she is a total bitch. Before she was nice half the time and did charity work but now she is mean all the time and I don't notice any charity on her part. The characters were never that nice to each other but now they are downright mean. Jerry was the straight man but now he acts goofy so there is no contrast to provide comedy between he and his goofy supporting cast. Larry David would catch a lot of crap ( Although he was not perfect) but with him gone, more crap gets thru and shows up each Thursday. Jerry wanted to leave before the show went downhill. Too late. So he mite as come back next season. OTOH, if the show came back next season it would suck even worse.
Observations
Really? Was this just after the pilot or something, cause I don't remember any episodes that didn't have Elaine in them? I do agree that the early shows were not nearly as good as later on.
But I don't agree that the new ones suck. The rerun from this season that was just on where George airbrushes his boss out of the picture... that one was good as any of them! Even the so so ones are WAY FUNNY! I don't understand why everyone is saying they are so bad no....doesn't look that way to me.
Milton Berle was interviewed in a local paper today, and he commented that "Seinfeld" was in many ways following the tradition of the "Jack Benny Show" on radio and then TV--with characters whose comic personalities and foibles became clearly defined to the audience over time. (That would even apply to the recurring characters like Newman or George's parents.) I don't think Berle was knocking "Seinfeld"; far from it. I just believe he was saying there's relatively little new under the sun.
Any thoughts?
Like any great artist he learned from those who came before him. So why would it be unusual to think he didn't learn from Benny, Marks, Costello (still think that's where Costanza comes from), etc.
Like Sir Isaac Newtonn said, "If I have seen farther than others it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." So has Seinfeld.
Unlike me, who says at work, "If I have seen farther than others it is because I am surrounded by midgets." :-)
VPaterno wrote:
I agree 100%. "The Jack Benny Program" was one of the best sitcoms ever but it's not well known because the repeats were never heavily syndicated.
"Seinfeld" is often compared with Abbott & Costello, even by Jerry himself, but I think the show it bears the greatest resemblance to is the JBP. The lightness of the tone where absolutely no serious issues are tackled is the same. Also, the 2nd level recurring characters as VP pointed out and the way Jack would address the audience at the start and ending of each episode.
"Seinfeld"'s inertwined plots remind me of "Faulty Towers" but the way the show subtly and indirectly deals with some explosive topics is a specialty all its own.
Gary Shandling's 1st HBO sitcom, I think it was called "It's the Gary Shandling Show", was also similar to Jack Benny's show as well as the inferior, IMO, Burns & Allen show.
Have you seen any of the newer episodes, George is coming back to his old George-ness? The only episode that I remember that he overdid it was The Dealership.
Remember, charity and helping another man don't get rewarded, in fact they get punished. I don't think she was ever that nice, just a lot better as the "queen of confrontation"
Alright, I have to agree with you here. Jerry was becoming another Kramer, but at least he's mellowing down for the final stretch run.
Sure, the show started off at a bad start this season, but it has picked up reasonably well, and Larry's coming back for the finale.
One, the show has not gone downhill. If the show had gone downhill, no one would've cared that the show was ending, the reaction would be more like "oh, really. Well I stopped watching that show a long time ago" (like Murphy Brown), but everyone's reaction was basically "Oh god! Why are they doing this? They still have a couple seasons in them". Two, I agree with you that if the show came back next season, it wouldn't be so good. But luckily he won't be back next year.
TyrantJR45 wrote:<snip>
<snip>
Have you been reading "Justine, or Good Conduct Well Chastised" by Sade?
Jonathan
No, I've been reading Entertainment weekly.
On 7 Mar 1998 06:34:57 GMT, [email] (Paul Valenti) wrote:
Even the bad episodes of Seinfeld are better than anything else on TV.
Awhile back somebody in this NG said that Seinfeld is like sex. When it's good, it's very, very good. When it's bad, it's still pretty good.