a "Seinfeld" expert described how the only time "Seinfeld" was so vicious in attacking an ethnic (racial) group was with the espisode involving Chinese waiters (?).
could someone repost this? i looked for it using dejanews without success.
In article ,
Tomoyuki Tanaka ([email]) wrote: :
You don't watch Seinfeld much, do you, Tanuki-chan. Jews get knocked on the show each and every week by the writers. "Oh," you say, "but the writers are mostly Jewish so that's fine." Okay, then what about Margaret Cho and her lampooning of Asian ways on All-American Girl?
[email] writes:
Cheese, I can't believe this thread has gone this far without mention of the unrelenting assault on Italians by the writers of Seinfeld. In fact, I think they have been slammed worse than any other ethnic group on the show. Evidence: 1. The least likeable character on the show is George Costanza. Selfish, insensitive, dishonest and lazy, he inspires us to hope bad things will happen to him. He and his parents lack any identifiable attributes of Italians in Queens, therefore we are left to speculate that the writers' only attribution to the character's Italian-ness is his unpleasant personality. 2. Poppy. This is a character with an idiotic accent who does not wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom and sat down and peed on Jerry's couch. What kind of a person just pees on another person's sofa? 3. The barbers. On this episode, Jerry always goes to this same Italian barber with an idiotic accent. The guy always gives him lousy haricuts, but he still goes back to the guy because he does not want to make him jealous. He starts seeing the barber's nephew, a younger Italian guy with an idiotic accent, and then the uncle catches them. The uncle gets psychotically jealous. Bizarre. 4. Crazy Joe Davola. This is an Italian guy who is apparently mentally ill who always wants to beat Jerry up. 5. The mechanic. Jerry's mechanic, an Italian guy, steals Jerry's car because he doesn't think Jerry loves his car enough. Sounds like something an Italian would do.... 6. The guy who exposed himself after a date with Elaine. The writers gave the guy an Italian name. 7. Jerry has a friend who is a terrible comic and who has a bizarre personality. The writers gave the guy an Italian name. 8. You never see the guy, but Kramer frequently talks about this friend of his named Bob Saccomano. Apparently the guy is psychotic.
It is true that the writers on Seinfeld slam everyone, including Jews. Ethnic portrayals are very two-dimensional on the show. Who can forget the psychotic niceness of the Judge Reinhold character, who has a nervous breakdown after Jerry's parents return to Florida because he "could have done more." To me this character seemed to represent a Jewish, urban perspective of Midwestern, corn-fed, WASP Christian altruism. But I tell you one thing, as an Italian-American whenever I hear an Italian name on that show I wince as a reflex. What's it gonna be this time????
Italians must really hate what Americans have done to pizza, too! ;)
Robert P. Albanese wrote:
<sNIP - A bunch of Italian stereotypes complaints>
IT WAS A SPOOF ON THE ENDING OF SCHINDLER'S LIST - !!
On second thought -you must know this - your post is a good troll. I think you caught me. :(
Tomoyuki Tanaka wrote:
Tanaka, I do believe you are a"Jerryphile".
OK, joking aside, why do you always seem to pick Jews out as Racists? That in itself indicates to me that you are anti-semetic.
In article ,
it's strange how Americans think Japan-bashing is politically correct.
Are you nuts?! Unless you've watched only that one "Seinfeld" episode, how can you possibly be unaware that the writers don't discriminate; they attack every conceivable group in the human race with their comic barbs. That includes all the groups mentioned in your preposterous post, and very frequently, the Jewish people--perhaps even more than other groups, in fact, because, being Jewish themselves, they know what's funny about us. For goodness sake, it's comedy, not oppression; no one is singled out, no one is sacred. Get real.
Bob Seletsky
Someone once said: 'Irony is the finest form of flattery.' Maybe I should be offended by the fact that Seinfeld never has made any jokes on Scandinavians. ;)
Seinfeld probably did, but Seinfeld doesn't intend racial slight when making fun of whites.
you may enjoy watching Nike's recent TV commercial: "if you don't like baseball, ... move to Norway."
Tomoyuki Tanaka wrote:
How do you know what he intends? Have you recently become a psychic? If so, why use the NG to communicate with all of us? You must have better ways to plumb our minds.
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The same way he can read David Letterman's mind. Mr. Tanaka, why are you wasting your time in law school when you could be making $3.95 a minute on the Psychic Friends Network?
In [email] (Tomoyuki Tanaka) writes:
Why do we need to rerun this thread just beacuse the Seinfeld episode was rerun?
But since its here again, let me get a word in this time. I agree with Mr. Tanaka that there racism exist in the US, and actions should be taken to work against it. But going off on imagined cases of racial bias is counter productive and serves only to decrease your own credibility. It is very true that Seinfeld makes fun of japanese stereotypes in the episode referred to, but thats how Seinfeld and most comedy work. The way I see it, Seinfeld is not really making fun of japanese people (or whatever group/stereotype he targets in a particular episode), but rather exposes how ridiculous the stereotype is, and makes it obvious how stupid you have to be to believe that all people belonging to a group fit the stereotype.
And it is not only japanese or asians that are made fun of, there are countless examples of 'whites' being stereotyped in movies and on tv. Germans are all tall, blond, ss-officer look alikes, who slap their heels together and say 'jawohl' when their bad-guy boss gives them an order. Scandinavians are almost exclusively represented by blonde, stupid, big breasted 'Inga' Italians are all good cooks, living in big families. Unless, of course they belong to that other big group of italians who are a part of the Mafia. French people are all rude, smell bad, and the women are disgusting because there was never, ever a french woman who shaved her armpits. White people from the south are all tobacco-chewing, truck driving, inbred, NRA fanatic rednecks.
So, please, save your effort for _real_ cases of racism, there is plenty of that, both in the US , Japan and the rest of the world.
Tom
[email] wrote:
actually, that's a very dangerous way to make comedy... I found that comedy that stereotypes minorities (like polish or jewish jokes) can re-enforce racist beliefs or religious bias. Jokes that ridicule racist beliefs (e.g. Archie Bunker, The Simpson's ) also tend to show the contrast of stereotypes vs. reality. However, Seinfeld doesnot do that - instead the Seinfeld show tends show how the protagonist gets all bent out of shape when he has to deal with stereotype minorities. So stereotypes are reinforced because there is no opposing characterization/depiction. What minorities need is a depiction of them as normal people - so that they can be see as humans and not as comedy props/gags.
Those stereotypes arenot nice either.
Stereotype in mass media is so common that people can tell they are there. For example, in one of my conversation the talk came to past about a man's mustasche resembling the 'evil Fu-Manchu.' Some asian-americans would take offense to that - however, my friend and I were just kidding around at the time. But later, I said to myself how language shapes our expectation of the future. If people see asian looking faces would they initially perceive that person as an "Evil Fu-Manchu?"
hmmm...
You use "NRA" like a dirty word. I should shoot you for that;)
In article , [email] says...
And on what do you base this omnicient opinion? Facts?
I have said it before, and I must say it again, Tanaka, you are a fuckwit.
[email] (Tomoyuki Tanaka) wrote:
I'm going to Norway then...:)
This whole thread is becoming a bad dream....let's face it. It's all in fun. If we all can't look at ourselves once in awhile and laugh. No matter what our nationality is, then we are living a very sad life.
Any dig at a Midwesterner (e.g. the Judge Reinhold character) is a dig at Scandinavians. Everybody else seems to think we're all Swedish out here, ya, you betcha. ;)
The closest you'll get to a Scandinavian joke is when Elaine is talking about moving and says something like "that'd be like moving from Iceland to Finland"
That was "it's like moving from Iceland to Greenland."
Rick
In , Rick Streeter writes:
Scandinavia reference #2:
"It's like Sweden in there, Jerry. Sweeeeee-den!"
On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Michael E. Miller/Robert E. Seletsky wrote:
Bob, it is obvious that the original poster is an antisemite. His comment not only lacks objectivity but reaks of ignorance. he was only looking for a chance to take a shot.
Fuckin jews. They act as if holocaust realy happened. Too bad it didn't. One's coming soon enough, though.
Peace!
Gosh, I hope you're kidding. If not, then you're being terribly insulting to the Nazis who were convinced they were doing a great and thorough job. No soup for you! Next!
Bob Seletsky
Begone, Herr Trollboy.
--------------------------------------------
[email]
(Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)
(Remove XXXX to reply)Fortunately for the world, the Nazis, who were "really" capable, if demented individuals, are gone, and only you are still around.
In article ,
it's strange how Americans think Japan-bashing is politically correct.
Tomoyuki Tanaka ([email]) wrote: :
Care to back this statement up?
Mr. Tanaka wrote : "it's strange how Americans think Japan-bashing is politically correct."
Well, at least you didn't over generalize to "all" Americans. That's a joke my friend. I suppose Japanese comics never, ever make fun of Americans on their TV shows?
What did I miss........how much fun did they really poke at these guys?
Maybe because they started World War II against the United States, I don't know.
[email] wrote:
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No need to involve the US in 1939. T'was a European conflict then... and the US had no bilateral treaty ties with Poland. And if the French had fallen so quickly, the US might well have stayed out of the entire continental conflict. ;)
Steve Sundberg ([email]) wrote: :
c/had fallen/had not* fallen
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Hong Kong was not involved until 1941. The conflicts in China and, earlier, Manchuria were affairs that didn't involve European powers until 1941. In fact, even though some historians regard either the subjugation of Manchukuo (ne Manchuria) or the Marco Polo Bridge Incident as the start of WWII, nothing that Japan was doing in Asia prior to PH directly involved a European military power (and the Vichy government can hardly qualify as a military power). US interests were focused, nonetheless, towards the Pacific and Asia, and not towards Europe until the fall of France... and even then the mood of the country was to stay out of the conflict. If you read your history a bit more thoroughly, you will no doubt discover that there wasn't even a universal agreement that Hitler should be treated as an enemy-- until Germany declared war on the US after the Japanese attack on PH.
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Their ships were not endangered by Japanese forces, were they, until after PH? Even today, persons recognize two separate conflicts that make up the general concept that was World War II-- a Pacific war, and a European war. Two separate, and independent, theaters of operation. Two separate, and independent, surrenders and peace. Two separate, and independent, post-war occupations.
Yes, while the Commonwealth may well believe the conflicts were universal even before 1941, the US did not believe so. Perception is* reality.
A lot of Americans still remember Pearl Harbor. Sorry about this, but it is a fact of history.
While there is enough "political correctness" in that Seinfeld doesn't make fun of any black or Latino characters, it does make fun of characters from many groups, including the ones you've listed.
Seinfeld certain makes fun of Jewish characters. Plenty of other TV shows do, including "The Nanny". What's really interesting is how bigots like Prasad think "the Jews" run Hollywood and never make fun of Jews.
Richard
Logic ditates that nothing is true if one exception or a set of circumstances can be found under which it is not true. The rule must then be changed. Also the words "in general" or "most of the time" are not adiquate in a debate as they are more subject to our opinions than #'s are..
keeping that in mind..
Really, lets examine that...
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