What was THAT last night? Now I can't decide which was the worst Seinfeld... this week or last week. None of the plot threads panned out... man hands could have been good but never really went anywhere, the bizarro thing was really half-baked, and the silly man-wife relationship between Jerry and Kramer was pathetic from the start. "The whole system is breaking down" would have been a good line in one of last season's episodes except that the whole subplot was so pathetic that it looked like he was struggling to stay in character. And what about the audience? It sounds suspiciously like a laugh track, the kind that is used for every other line. Why would they be using laugh tracks? Is it because they can't get a real audience to laugh anymore?
Three bad shows in a row... the whole season looks like a wash
[email] (John Churchill) wrote:
Well, obviously you are WAY outnumbered here on this one. There seems to be general agreement that the "bizzarro" episode went a long way toward returning to the show's original quality!
Kathy
Well,
I watched the years first show and thought it was terrible. Then Iwatched part of the second show and thought it was terrible. I walked right by the tv Thursday while the show was on and looked at it for 2 minutes, then walked away. Pretty dead. I love seinfeld and watch it every night on synd. i think the show pales from what it was the third and fourth years, a couple of shows last years were terrific, like the rye but the last two shows last year and the death of susan really burned me out and it seems the show is a cliche of itself now. And that isn't a criticism but no show can avoid it- it has to happen.
I will watch a couple of more times this year but maybe they should have quit early last year. However I am glad I didn't because in ten years I am going to be glad for every show and dream about a new one that won't come.
Thursday night is a bomb now. friends is really getting dirty now, the single guy is horrible and SS is the lowest show on tv.
Pearl is really good and so is mr Rhodes. And Home Improvement is still funny.
Wow, you are like the Bizarro of someone who watches good TV shows.
[email] wrote:
I think we have found the problem with Seinfeld critics. THEY THINK MR. RHODES IS "REALLY GOOD"!!!!
Are you missing chromosomes? Do you stand close to the microwave? Did you vote for Clinton? Any and every of these might explain your complete idiocy. Mr. Rhodes? Lord, help us. Now.
[email] wrote:
Are you kidding me--you think Home Improvement is funny and Seinfeld isn't? Obviously, it doesn't take very smart humor to make you laugh. I'll admit that the 1st two episodes of Seinfeld this season weren't that great, but last night's show was hysterical. It had all of the elements that have made the show a classic and it proved that they are still the funniest show on T.V. How can you even comment on last night's show anyway if you only watched like 2 minutes of it? Give me a break! If you read most of the posts in this newsgroup, you'll see that the majority of people here(myself included) thought last night's show was spectacular. Do us all a favor and watch the show in full if you're going to comment on it.
On Sat, 05 Oct 1996 05:47:29 GMT, [email] wrote:
I will NEVER watch home improvement or pay any money to see Tim Allen because he is a convicted drug dealer.
[email] (Richard Hassinger) wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate here, Seinfeld also dated Shoshanna. She wasn't exactly his own age. Everybody does stuff that they probably shouldn't.
Disclaimer: I wouldn't be caught dead watching "Home Improvement".
In [email] (Matt Lynch) writes:
At least as far as we all know, Tim Allen is currently "clean". People can pay for their crimes, and move forward. Kelsey Grammer... now there's someone who doesn't seem to know how to pull himself out of that hole he's in.
~RPM~
On 7 Oct 1996 02:29:33 GMT, [email](Robin P. Miller) wrote:
You have reminded me of how much of a hypocryte I am. I love Kelsey Grammer in spite of his current road to self-destruction, while I hate Tim Allen in spite of his payment of dues to society. (However, if Allen had been stuck with what drug dealers are getting under the new laws, he's still be in the slammer today.)
They were not bad shows... They were damn hilarious!
Richard Hassinger wrote in article ...
I agree -- I saw them all and enjoyed them all.
Here I will disagree 150%! While "Seinfeld" is still a first rate sitcom and will probably remain so, I did get a feeling that it's changing in comparison to most of the old episode. In its defense, I'd just like to say that changing doesn't have to be bad, although it's hard to improve the "old 'Seinfeld'".
In article , [email] wrote:
He also went to jail and served his time!!! He repayed his debt to society and is now a contributing citizen. We need to support people who do jail time and then turn themselves around and become responsible members of society. I admire him because he was able to do this.
On Sat, 05 Oct 1996 05:47:29 GMT, [email] wrote:
To refer to "Seinfeld" as a cliche of itself and to think "Home Improvement" is still funny is a self-contradiction.
"Home Improvement" has used the same fill-in-the-blank plot since its inception.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------
The only good Nuke is a Wasted Nuke.
On 4 Oct 1996 23:06:41 -0400, [email] (ChiGirl676) wrote:
It seems to me that those who say it was a good episode are the ones who are way outnumbered. It just so happens that a disproportionate number of Seinfeld die-hards participate in this group and are more likely to call a mediocre show great than the average person on the street (or in my office).
In [email] (Richard
to
toward
Actually, I've found it to be the opposite - the die-hards are the
ones who HATE the new episodes, and the casual viewers I come across
daily always seem to have loved the latest episode. We even sat and
talked about "The Soul Mate" and how great it was.
Just outnumbering you again....:)-Simonfeld d:}
I kind of like Pearl, it is funny with mcDowell and Pearlman together but the rest is pretty flat and Mr. Rhodes is kind of cute. The guy with the long hair (Rhodes) is clever and they have that girl from Wings on it. It isn't great but it is funny but I LOVED that show with Tony Danza last year and it bombed. (Hudson Street)
What does voting for Clinton have to do with anything? That comment was stupid.
Seinfeld has gone flat this year but there will be a couple of good shows this season. I also haven't been real impressed so far.
And as far as Home Improvement goes, it is a nice show but I have never watched it yet except on syndication.
The best show was - is- and will be- The Simpsons. A classic that just gets better.
[email](Simon Russell) wrote:
ACTUALLY, I've been a die-hard fan for many years. I was less than thrilled with the last season and was overjoyed when Susan died because I thought that plot would have died with her (wishful thinking, unfortunately). I thought the first two episodes this season were strange and pretty unfunny, but the bizzarro episode was signaled a turn for the better, IMHO. (it might just be a fluke though, who knows?) So there you go.
[email](Simon Russell) writes:
Actually, I've found it to be the opposite - the die-hards are the ones who HATE the new episodes, and the casual viewers I come across daily always seem to have loved the latest episode. We even sat and talked about "The Soul Mate" and how great it was.
For once, we agree, Simonfeld. I consider myself a die-hard fan, having watched the show since about the 7th episode. Having seen the episodes in the order that they were originally broadcast, I am very disappointed by the recent ones. There is something about them that seems much more forced or tired.
Right, those of us that saw an intelligent, subtle form of twisted humour in the original seinfelds are disappointed with the new season. It is becoming a parody of itself. Even tonight's episode ttried to interlink the plots better than the first three this season - but it just does not come off.
Jerry would never be caught up filming the bootlegs in the old shows - he was always the foil that the weird friends played off.
Mike Lieberman wrote:
My problem (and I've noticed this getting steadily worse for a few years running) is that the show used to be about "little" weird stuff that was blown way out of proportion (ex: "The Pick"). Now it seems, as you say, forced, and the situations are more about outlandish stuff that never happens in real life (Dating Miss America, bootlegging videos, driving truckloads of bottles to Michigan). Whatever happened to the "Show about nothing"?
There are no bootlegged videos anywhere? Could have fooled me!
Joel
In article , [email] wrote:
I actually read an decent article about "Ellen" in Time magazine, and the writer said that Ellen was trying to be like "Seinfeld," but wasn't quite hitting the right Seinfeldian tone, which, in this writer's opinion was treating everything with ironic/cynical distance: no event receives any more weight than any other event, so a marriage = a bad hair day = driving bottles to Michigan = bar mitzvahs, etc. I thought that comment was right on. Jerry's show can branch out to bigger nothings, as long as they are treated with that same tone of distance, so dating Miss America is no more important than anything else, like George continued dating that accountant who had to go to an institution just to help Jerry with his taxes.
But, I also worry that Seinfeld will fall into the Must-See Black Hole and begin to look more like those goofy promos they run instead of the old syndicated shows.
Still ... George's puzzled, pained expression at Elaine's dancing was as hilarious as anything I've seen yet this season. "Sweet Fancy Moses" indeed!
I agree, somewhat. But outlandish things have always happened on Seinfeld. For example, one of my favorite episodes, The Marine Biologist (reran last night) was about as outlandish as it gets.
On 10 Oct 1996 23:20:33 GMT, [email] (BLo) wrote:
Bullshit. Only the seriously deranged need to get a life die hards are having a problem. I have many episodes on tape and never miss it and I love the new direction....much darker.
Would you prefer they quit making the show as was so widely rumored last year? Would you rather watch the same old [unbelievably great] episodes instead of see a new [still better than any show on TV, but maybe not as good as the older ones] episode every week. The hand extends to feed you...and you take a big bite.
BLo wrote in article ...
watched
order
ones.
Agreed. Fortunately, I get to watch syndicated reruns nightly at 11:00PM here in ny.
The episode last week reminded me of all the former Crazy Joe Davolla and Keith Hernandez type episodes. Sorry if some people feel as if what people think is good is "mediocre" I didn't know you were the president by dictatorship.
[email] (John Churchill) wrote:
I'm not making any accusations, but does it seem to anyone else that some people are just bent on hating the show? I was starting to think it was going dry towards the middle of last season, but recently, things have sparked up. "Bizarro Jerry" was a great episode. I just wonder if some people have already made up their minds and are looking for things to dislike.
Maybe these naysayers should quit watching the show. Yeah, like they really could.
In article , [email] wrote:
I thought last night's show was great! I agree with those who disliked the first two shows, however. There are some who always want to complain, but I think it was a fair judgment that the first two of this season were weak. That doesn't mean we gave up, just that we wanted improvement and we got it last night.
On Fri, 04 Oct 1996 13:17:38 -0500, [email] (Greg Thompson) wrote:
I was talking to someone today who thought that the man-hands part was great, but otherwise it was boring. I thought that the man-hands part was poorly acted. I liked the bizarro part, but it never made me laugh. In fact, I didn't laugh the whole show, and I usually laugh hysterically at such shows, such as the premiere of Frasier a couple of weeks ago. I have to agree that while it wasn't bad, it certainly wasn't the same Seinfeld.
I think that some of the "see I told you so" posts were made by people who have wrapped themselves up in seinfeld a little bit too much, and feel desperate to get that part of their life back by hyping it up (sort of like how Mac users have been doing in the last 12 months).
Sorry, just my opinion, no flames please. The show has some refinements to make before I would consider it back where it was.
Some people LIKE to NOT like a show. Granted, the first two were not so good, but if this exact episode was in the middle of another year, a lot of the negative posters would have a different opinion.
Matt Lynch wrote in article ...
I am beginning to think the same thing. Personally, I liked the episode. I thought that it ranked up there with the best of them. I mean, I consider myself a pretty avid fan. I have seen every episode at least once and from what I can see, this one followed pretty much the same patterns. If they are so hellbent on motifs and running jokes that "go somewhere," how did they ever become fans of Seinfeld? And why do they keep posting the same messages about how times are desperate because the whole season is "a wash" after three episodes? I mean, OK start watching other shows, jogging, whatever. Why keep watching the "lost" show week after week, and then keep spreading their dribble via newsgroups? Will they ever leave the true fans alone to enjoy the show in peace?
S writes:
Matt Lynch wrote:
Why do you think that ? Why wouldn't you just think that Seinfeld this season is not like Seinfeld of past seasons, and that those who preferred it before might not be liking the difference ?
I think that there are some people who are so incredibly obsessed with Seinfeld that they can't seem to admit that the show might have weak episodes. These people follow up on every single post that says a negative thing about the show, thereby flooding the group with an antagonistic atmosphere.
Consider this: there are people who have dismissed the rest of this season based on just the first three episodes, but there are also people who are certain that the rest of the season will be great based on just the third episode. Both these sets of people seem pretty short sighted to me.
Personally, I liked the episode. I thought that it ranked up there with the best of them. I mean, I consider myself a pretty avid fan. I have seen every episode at least once and from what I can see, this one followed pretty much the same patterns.
The pattern was there, but somehow the old Seinfeld magic wasn't.
If they are so hellbent on motifs and running jokes that "go somewhere," how did they ever become fans of Seinfeld?
Because that's exactly what the show used to be like - situations that built up towards a hysterical climax at the end of the episode.
And why do they keep posting the same messages about how times are desperate because the whole season is "a wash" after three episodes?
Probably these are people who once really loved the show, and still have a fondness for the characters, even if the show seems not very funny to them anymore. They are hoping that the show will recover so that they can continue to enjoy it. (BTW, are the same people making these posts, or are there simply many people expressing the same opinion ?)
Will they ever leave the true fans alone to enjoy the show in peace?
A true fan is willing to admit that the show needs work and is willing to stick with the show in spite of it. Your attitude sounds an awful lot like "America - love it or leave it".
Boy, you need to lighten up...I couldn't stop laughing every time they showed "man-hands" and all the other sub-plots were great, especially the "Bizarro" world. Just wondering...is there a "Bizarro" Elaine? I know she's the link between the two worlds, but you have to wonder what she'd look like!
man-hands didnt do it for me. Just totally *blah* Other than that though it was a riot! I find the premise of two men in a traditional male/female situation getting a bit old, they did it well. Kramer & Jerry pulled it off. The bizarro seinfeld was hilarious. I too would have liked to see bizarro Elaine show up. Georges fantasy land and his little trip into surrealism were great.
In [email] (John Churchill) writes:
If you dislike the show so much, why do you watch it? Why do something you don't like to do?
In article [email] (John Churchill) writes:
What was THAT last night? Now I can't decide which was the worst Seinfeld... this week or last week. None of the plot threads panned out... man hands could have been good but never really went anywhere, the bizarro thing was really half-baked, and the silly man-wife relationship between Jerry and Kramer was pathetic from the start. "The whole system is breaking down" would have been a good line in one of last season's episodes except that the whole subplot was so pathetic that it looked like he was struggling to stay in character. And what about the audience? It sounds suspiciously like a laugh track, the kind that is used for every other line. Why would they be using laugh tracks? Is it because they can't get a real audience to laugh anymore?
I think you're very much in the minority here. Most people here on the group including myself thought it was pretty vintage.
Mike Lieberman writes: > BLo wrote:
That's EXACTLY what a friend of mine and I observed. This is crazy. In fact none of the characters seem in line with their normal "selves" of old. They're all behaving eerily independently with token get- togethers at the diner.
Another good example is of Elaine dissing George like she did. Granted she always joshed him, but she never called him a "virus" and vigourosly discouraged others from getting them to know him. Since when would Elaine even care so much about the disposition of the staff anyway that she would hate George so much? (I think the whole idea of her becoming boss overnight was bogus and cheap to begin with). Part of the novelty of the show was the fact that these people were all such good friends. Suddenly she hates and avoids George!
I think if you saw this show for the first time it might be okay. But if you appreciate the relationships that existed before, you're left scratching your head over these new episodes.