Fans discuss the Puerto Rican Day Parade episode being pulled from syndication, with debate over whether the flag-burning scene was offensive or just comedy.
I know that the episode with the Puerto Rican Day Parade will never be aired again. Atleast, that's what i heard. I taped that episode the day when it premiered and i know that many people want a copy of this episode. I heard that it was going for $30 on ebay and i thought that was a rip off.
If you really want the episode so much i will give it to you for $10.(plus i'll throw in some other episode that you want)
I also have other great episodes like the Soup Nazi, and the whole first season including the pilot. I also have tons of other episodes from various seasons.
Could someone summarize this whole thing for me ? Why on earth they aren�t gonna show it again (apparantely in US) ? I haven t gone these earlier PRDP-threads trough, sorry...
176."The Puerto Rican Day"
gs: Mario Joyner [ Lamar ], Dayton Callie [ Cabbie ], James Karen [ Mr.
Canterman ], Helen Carey [ Mrs. Christine
Nyhart ], Yul Vasquez [ Bob ], John Paragon [ Cedric ], Jenica Bergere [
Leslie ], Monica Allison [ Gail ], Marcelo
Tubert [ Father ], Armando Molina [ Amigo ], Tom Agna [ Gary ], Tom
Dahlgren [ Priest ], Bert Rosario [ Man ],
Raoul N. Rizik [ Parade Goer ], Scott Conte [ Sketch Guy ], Mimi Cozzens
[ Mrs. Canterman ], Alison Martin [ Lucy
], Marc Hirschfeld [ Ellis ], Chip Heller [ Policeman ], Bob Murphy [
Voice of Himself, Mets Broadcaster (uncredited)
]
The gang tries to get back into town after leaving the Mets game early in
the 8th inning, the Mets are down 8 - 0. On
the highway they run into trouble with a maroon Volkswagen Golf. George
comments on a new movie he saw about
the Hindenburg disaster and the clever comment he made during a quiet
moment after the explosion. As they
approach 5th Avenue traffic slows down and music can be heard, they
realize they have forgotten about the Puerto
Rican day parade. Elaine worries about getting home and seeing 60 Minutes
as part of her weekend wind down.
Kramer spots a way out if Jerry can worm his way over to the right. They
almost make it over until they reencounter
the maroon Golf. Elaine bails out of the car to find alternate
transportation. George bails out of the car when he spots
a theater screening the Hindenburg movie; he decides he wants to repeat
his glory. Elaine decides the cab she hired
isn't working, so she bails out of the cab, only to have it start moving
again and again. George's attempt to be funny at
the movie is undermined by a guy with one of those funny laser pointers.
Kramer suggests that he and Jerry abandon
his car. The laser pointer guy (a lousy prop comic) gets all the laughs
as George's line bombs and he is humiliated.
Kramer cuts a deal with the maroon Golf they are go to get access to the
short cut when Jerry makes an apology
wave. George returns to the car with the red dot of a laser pointer
appearing all over parts of his body. Jerry rescinds
his apology wave just as he is about to pull in the alley; Elaine arrives
back at the same spot in her cab.
Jerry's apartment is seen, but no one is home. Elaine seeks an alternate
way home. Kramer seeks a bathroom. Elaine
works her way over to the parade route and looks for a way across. She
leads a group of people on an escape route
underneath a reviewing stand ala The Poseidon Adventure. Kramer spots an
apartment for sale and poses as H.E
Pennypacker, a wealthy industrialist, to get access to a bathroom. When
he gets back he tells Jerry about the Mets
game. Soon after, Kal Varnsen (Jerry's alias), is looking at the
television in the apartment. George spots the laser guy
and plans a sneak attack. Elaine's route leads to a dead end. George
grabs what he thinks is the laser pointer and gets
ink all over his hands. Kramer accidentally sets the Puerto Rican flag on
fire and a mob of people, led by the armoire
stealing tough guys. Art Vandelay seeks the use of a bathroom to clean
the ink off his hands and runs into Varnsen.
Pennypacker joins them on the run from the mob. Varnsen wants know who's
watching the Saab factory. The mob is
watching it; however, they leave it in a precarious position.
b: 7 May 98 pc: 920 w: Alec Berg and Jennifer Crittenden and Spike
Feresten and Bruce Eric Kaplan and Gregg Kavet
and Steve Koren and David Mandel and Dan O'Keefe and Andy Robin and Jeff
Schaffer d: Andy Ackerman
NOTE: The episode caused a bit of stir in the Puerto Rican community,
causing NBC to issue an apology. The
controversy involved the flag-burning sequence.
And now Jerry Balsam tells me that laser pointers have come under attack
with legislation in NYC to make it
misdemeanor to improperly use one. This is probably a good idea, since
laser light can cause harm if pointed into the
eyes.
Viewer Jeff Holland passed these Seinfeld TV events onto me, so I hope your VCRs were tuned up and taping.
Great description, but you missed the funniest bit! I loved it when Kramer left the others in the Saab and then when returning he sits in another Saab with three people who look surprisingly like Jerry, George, and Elaine. When Kramer exclaims that the traffic is backed up for miles, the occupants answer him: "Well, it is our day!". Kramer realises his mistake and leaves.
BTW, I know there are a lot of problems with the world but if someone takes the flag burning bit seriously then they have problems that can't be solved. I mean, the show went to great lengths to make it blindingly obvious that the whole scene was for a laugh, and Kramer set it ablaze accidentally. If you can't have a chuckle at something like that then you can't be helped.
Let's play devil's advocate... If you saw a "Non-American" comedy series in which a "Non-American" person / persons lit an American Flag on fire for a chuckle... would you think it was funny? I think I might be a little pissed off... many men have fought and died for our country... for that flag... and I think it would be in bad taste to light it on fire just to make people laugh.
Accidentally??? They didn't "accidentally" light the flag on fire... it was in the script, and doing it just for a laugh makes it that much worse. Should a Puerto Rican not be offended because it was only a joke? If I were to come to your house, and wipe my ass with your shower curtain after taking a shit (as a joke) would you think that was funny? You probably wouldn't... but I'd be willing to bet a lot of other people would! But that doesn't make it ok! (or does it?)
BTW: 1) I'm not Puerto Rican, just playing devil's advocate. 2) I laughed my ass off when I saw that episode. 3) If you invite me over your house, I promise I won't wipe my ass with your shower curtain. =)
That depends. Am I a *rational* American? If so, I would see the act in the context within which it was presented, and decide whether it was appropriate to be offended based on that.
And I think a knee-jerk reaction to a specific act, without taking the rest of the situation into consideration, is simply myopia on the part of the viewer, not the writer/producer/actor.
We can also get into the "it's just a piece of cloth and you're too caught up in symbols" issue if you like. Nobody ever fought or died or killed for "a flag", only for what that symbolic piece of fabric represented. I think maybe it's kind of tribal and backwards to equate a way of life with a pattern of colors and shapes.
Enough with the semantic games. The script was written so that Kramer accidentally set the flag on fire. Kramer has a history of accidentally setting things aflame, so this was entirely within character. Spend a minute and consider specifically what Kramer's actions entailed. He lit a cigar off a sparkler then tossed it carelessly over his shoulder. He noticed a fire in Jerry's back seat, so he removed it from the car and threw it to the ground, then proceeded to step on it to put the fire out. Now, at this moment, was Kramer considering the political or sociological ramifications of this action? Was he trying to make some sort of statement about his feelings towards the Puerto Rican commmunity? Of course not. Was he just Kramer being Kramer? Absolutely.
Precisely. Only the ones with senses of humor. Remember, it was only a small minority *within* the Puerto Rican community who complained about it. For the most part, it was a non-issue.
Why can't you make the point without resorting to such an extreme example? Fine, Mr. Advocate. I would suspend my anger and disgust until I understood the context of your actions. If your writers are as good as "Seinfeld"'s, I may just laugh like hell over it. But I'd expect you to buy me a new curtain. After all, I believe the PR flag that Kramer burned was the property of the NBC props department, wasn't it?
It all boils down to this question. Given the concext in which the action was performed, was Kramer's flag burning a morally acceptable action?
Yes, it sure was.
I appreciate the disclaimer. If I did invite you over would you bring wine and bobka or Pepsi and Ring Dings?
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Mark, I'm sure that the writers of Seinfeld are basing their humor on rational people watching the show, and, because it is a comedy, people with a sense of humor.
If the writers intended to offend people, why did they write in the script for Kramer to attempt to put the fire out. When people burn flags they usually hold it aloft and appear enraged.
Because of people who interpret things the way you do, there are Grandfathers too scared to hold their old grandchildren for fear of being accused of molestation. Most people would see the grandfather as a loving caregiver showing affection to their grandchild, but someone like you would immediately 1) overreact and 2) shout loudly that the man should be banned from society.
The easy way to tell if someone is burning a flag with the intent to offend is that you will notice:
They are not a celebrity (e.g.Michael Richards)
There are no "Seinfeld" television cameras
There are many others gathered around
You are watching the flag burning on a 'news' show, not a comedy.
Please wake up. I suppose that the Seinfeld writers were gay bashing in "The Outing"...
Interestingly enough, there was a subtext to "The Outing". While repeatedly chanting the mantra "Not that there's anything wrong with that" throughout the episode, instilling the belief that there truly *is* nothing wrong with it, the characters also went through great pains to insure that the reporter (and everyone else) didn't think *they* were homosexuals. Remember Kramer's reaction when Jerry insinuated that the same physical traits he shares with Jerry are rooted in the male homosexuality stereotype.
And how about when Jerry spoke with his parents? When they thought the story was true, Morty immediately blamed Helen for buying Jerry culottes (girls shorts) when he was a child. "Blamed" is the key word. Like if he really is gay, then it must be somebody's fault?
And there's more.
Much more but I've got a lunch appointment.
Be back soon...
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*NOTE* I am not responsible for equipment damage due to reeeealy
dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.
I was playing devil's advocate... I was not expressing my true feelings, but trying to make a point, in an attempt to see from the "other side's point of view...". "People like me" do see the grandfather as a loving caregiver showing affection to their grandchild... I think the only people that would "worry" about something like that would be a parent who was molested by the parent as a youngster... in which case there would be good cause for alarm.
BTW: Please keep all responses to the NewsGroup... so everyone can enjoy them.
As a Jewish-American, I have a pretty good idea of what a minority is.
Minority or not, the overly outraged were simply out of line. It's ok to burn ANYTHING in a sitcom as long as the context shows it's not done with malice.
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*NOTE* I am not responsible for equipment damage due to reeeealy
dumb children with no parental supervision, and access to a hammer.
It was a power play. Puerto Rican "leaders" wanted an opportunity to show their clout. They were looking for the chance when it was first announced that the Puerto Rican day parade was the subject. If the flag hadn't been burned, it would have been something else.
It wasn't a real Puerto Rican flag. In the context of the show, a Puerto Rican flag was accidentally set on fire. Ironically, if had been an American flag that was supposedly set on fire, the entertainment community would have rose up and denounced "censorship" if NBC hadn't rebroadcast it.