Seinfeld's Kibbutz Days

I received an article the other day about a cafe in Tel Aviv that serves Nothing (the menu is imaginary). What a great site that would have been for The Final Episode. Jerry goes back to the kibbutz, and takes his buddies with him, where Elaine gets hot for a Palestinian Police Officer. Kramer goes from Kramerica to Kraisrael, where he takes over a cafe about nothing to make it the center of a show about nothing. George falls off a ladder picking fruit and sees visions of Susan during a brief trip to the next world.

Good outline for script. Should have peddled it. Too late :)

I suppose you'd know from experience about the strip joint :)

I rarely watched the show; didn't care for it much, except for Kramer's antics and Julia Dreyfus' attractive face. OTherwise, Seinfeld and his humor leave me cold. I simply don't think he's funny.

I basically agree with you, Ferris.

On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, F.M. Anthony wrote:

PLEASE don't judge the midwest by what this guy says. Seinfeld has a HUGE fan base in Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois. And as for the moral point of view thing-you have a right to your opinion, just don't include others in your generalizations. I, and many other people, are NOT you.

A.

[email] wrote in article ...

heavens

Jerry, George, Kramer, and Elaine are number one in the south, too. And you know how we feel about New York City down here.

You have got to be kidding! Seinfeld is one of the cleanest comedians out there. There's very little language and very little if at any "x-rated" material. Sure, they dance around topics such as masturbation, but guess what...that's part of life! I'd rather see it dealt with humorously than have it done in a vulgar and crude way.

Now ,if you are referring to the lack of morality of the characters on Seinfeld, you may have a point. But no one is glorifying them, we're laughing at them! I wouldn't have my kids watch it until they were old enough to understand they difference (when I have kids, that is), but that doesn't mean adults can't separate it out. Besides, the amorality of the Seinfeld characters often leads to comeupance...you never see any of them profiting from their lack of character, they always get caught!

BTW, I am a born again Christian...I just happen to have a brain and can distinguish between something being promoted and glorified, and something being used to produce laughter.

Maria

PS Seinfeld as a show does more for feminism than most shows on the air, btw!

On 25 Apr 1998, Maria Rost Rublee wrote:

I have been watching Seinfeld since it aired, and I am 17. The show is nowhere near a bad influence.

Even a show as great as Seinfeld has its weak points ;)

Maria, sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. I would rather my 10 year old son watch Seinfeld than many other shows. Of course I will change the channel if they get into a show like the "Master of my Domaine". With the world getting smaller and smaller with travel and also the internet I can't believe that someone can judge anything by regional values or the values they set upon them selves.

Maria Rost Rublee wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:40:25 -0400, "F.M. Anthony" wrote:

...to think like the wor-man...to feel like the wor-man...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

F.M. Anthony wrote:

So your personal opinion becomes the voice of the midwest?? Whatever.

No, I guess you're just a part of some other easily offended group. Who cares what you think?

Seinfeld and his group just offend my

But you continue to watch?? Why beat yourself up?

And 'respect for wormen and religion' is important to you? You do realize Seinfeld is a COMEDY, not a DOCUMENTARY, don't you?

So you're very easily offended, AND extremely closed-minded? That's a pretty scary combination. I'm more comfortable thinking you're a crackpot, than someone who speaks for 'the Mid West'.

So Seinfeld sucks because it doesn't respect women. And Ellen sucks because maybe it respects women a little too much.

I tend to agree that the blase, moral looseness typified by Seinfeld, while rather tame compared to some of the other smelly dreq that has been unloosed over the airwaves, nonetheless typifies the rather liberal/left amorality that many people, including some Jews like myself, find tasteless and offensive.

Obviously the big media machers don't care much what kind of crap they unload as long as they get eyeballs to watch. Drug dealers also claim that if they didn't have a ready market they couldn't make a living either. But that's what morality is all about, choosing to refrain from selling poisonous dreq just to make a buck. It is interesting that MGM movie mogul, Louis B. Mayer, made a point of never making leftist, prurient, sex-laden filth. On the contrary, his old movies portrayed America in golden images for Americans to live up to rather than in negativistic ones.

I never watched it much. In fact I primarily watch public television and stay away from most of the tasteless fare being peddled over the airwaves. There are occasionally funny shticks on SEinfeld, but its filled with the usual sexual innuendo and fornication. It's a far cry from the TV we had in the 1950's and early '60's when we had comics and situation comedies that could actually make you laugh without constant reference to homosexuality or rampant fornication.

[email] wrote:

True enough. Much of what passes for TV entertainment these days is crap, but many millions of viewers have more liberal viewpoints than you do. In fact, I would say that in this day and age, you are in the extreme minority and thus, your opinion just can't mean as much. Sorry, but it's true.

You aren't Seinfeld's target market. You aren't who they write their material for. You aren't who their advertisers are hoping to profit from. Your ancient and outdated morals make it difficult for you to find Seinfeld's humor 'funny'. But it is. Howlingly funny, but your life experience/paradigm do not allow you to think of it as 'funny'. Therefore, the blame lies with you.

Which, to some extent, is true. If nobody wants to buy what Jerry's selling, then he wouldn't be in business. If enough people felt like you, his show wouldn't have made it past the 2nd season. But it did. And it didn't just survive. it thrived. Even now, as we await the final episode and the latest predictions are that some 80 million people will tune in for it. But not you. Michael Flatley's Riverdance will be on PBS that night.

Sure. But he did it in a different era. Personally, I've seen "Mayer era movies" and they're not all that entertaining. Quite boring, in fact. Today's TV watcher (between the ages of 25-49, because if you're younger or older than that, they really don't care what you watch) demands a little spice with their meal. The overly uptight Mayer would have no place in Hollywood today. I suppose you prefere black and white to color?

You primarily watch public television? This tells me that you are not even really qualified to judge the quality of Seinfeld. Stop trying to compare it to Masterpiece Theater, ok? It's a comedy. it makes people laugh. That aught to be enough. It's enough for the rest of us.

Take off the rose colored bifocals, Gramps. Thanks to the miracle of Nick at Nite, I've gotten to see some of these vaunted 50's and 60's 'comedies', and you know what? Not funny! Maybe 40 years ago Ozzie and Harriet were a laugh riot, but here in 1998? Not funny at all. Leave it to Beaver?? Sure, it'll teach you a lesson (albeit an extremely outdated message with little bearing on life in the 90's), but it will not make you laugh. Me, I'd rather have a show that teaches no lesson, but has me rolling on the floor in hysterics. That's Seinfeld. ------------------------------------------ [email] (Hammer nail here--> <-- for a new monitor.)

My 2 cents. I think that the morals and values and actions of the Seinfeld charactors are awful. I totally disapprove. And I still can't help watching it, because it is FUNNY. Sorry, but it is.

Excuse me?????

PBS of course, offers no comedy. Mr Bean is serious stuff. Raina

In Raina Steiner writes:

Um, folks, not only is Seinfeld a comedy, but the show pokes fun AT the characters' values (or lack thereof) and actions. Anyone who doesn't see that the show ridicules their self-absorption and shallowness (granted, while giving them some likeable qualities) is missing half the joke.

Well, the show still sucks, even if you like it.

PBS offers up old British comedy, that is still funny. I just wish Faulty Towers was still on.

You should change the name to Reina's Jewish Tamales. It's a catchier name, and probably more descriptive. Sort of like Jewish doughnuts, Chinese burritos, Italian won-ton, etc.

Followup-To set...

Bobbi

--- Roberta Hatch '65 Panhead Dykes on Bikes, San Francisco, CA (This space for rent)

Well, that's pretty straight-forward.

Now, here we agree.

Thanks for the suggestion. However, I don't want people to think that they are filled with kasha or gefilte fish. Raina

Raina Steiner wrote: <snip>

Reina,..'awful'? What is the problem with their morals and values? Why are you 'sorry' that it is funny? Maybe that is why it's funny. We can live a bit vicariously (sorry webtv people) through their antics.

I would really like to hear from people who dissaprove of the morals on the show. What it is that is 'dissaproving' ? Trying to get a massage from his girl friend? Lying about being a Marine Biologist? Not wearing an AIDS ribbon? Having sex with the cleaning lady...was that wrong?.

Not sorry like I will beat my breast on Yom Kippur over it. Sorry like "this is awful, but tough, it's really funny"

Of course.

No, thank you.

Raina

Raina Steiner wrote:

I've never laughed at it. British humor, with the possible exception of Monty Python, is very rarely humorous. But you're right about PBS, those documentaries on tree fungus are laugh riots! And I can't wait to giggle myself silly over the next Yanni concert. And what about that English woman with the awful teeth who whines about how much money they need? I can't even keep a straight face when she's on. Only $300 and I can get a video cassette of whatever bs they just showed? Now THAT'S laughable! Like my VCR doesn't have a 'record' button?? Please.

You watch Yanni concerts? Now I'm laughing! Raina

Dave wrote:

i dare you to post that anywhere the british can see it

go on, dare ya

murray

What, they don't have UseNet access in England yet?

Tell you what. Feel free to tell all of your British friends that, on the whole, I think their comedy programming is lousy. Ever seen "Are you being served?"? Absolute garbage. I'd sooner watch an old "Hello Larry" with McLean Stevenson.

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:26:29 -0400, Dave wrote:

Most Brits on usenet are probably too young to remember the last time "Are You Being Served" was shown on British TV. Only americans watch that crap these days. There is a lesson here. Ever seen Blackadder? Fawlty Towers? AbFAb?

How about how the Brits ruined one of the funniest scripts ever with their lame interpretation of "Me and the Mirskys' "???

What, no geezers on the info highway?

You conveniently forgot Benny Hill.

I think PBS got a truck load of "Are You Being Served"'s on special. Blackadder was shown for a while on cable - either A & E or Bravo. Never checked it out though.

Fawlty Towers WAS good but making that observation has become a bit of a cliche and the best things about FT, the interwoven subplots and John Cleese's rages, have been transcended by Seinfeld. Michael Palin's 'Ripping Yarns' was also very good.

AbFab is overhyped and overrated. So is Tracy Ullman. Sure, she's very talented but she's not fuckin' funny!

What gripes me about British humor, er humour, is the tendency to rely on cross dressing to get cheap laughs. God that sucks! The Canadians do that too. I know about Bosom Buddies and Uncle Milty but Americomedians, generally speaking, rarely go there and this fills me with patriotic gratitude.

Slo.

In article , Slo wrote:

Are You Being Served is being shown at present on BBC.

I believe that the American programming that we get - Friends, Seinfeld, Larry Sanders are the tip of an iceberg. What lies below the water is not so fantastic. I understand that the team of writers working on any American sitcom is much greater than on the small number working on its British equivalent. It should therefore be much slicker.

Alright, my Cockney sparra', apples and pears and all that! What other English cliches are you going to trot out?

Yes, I suppose if you think of Are You Being Served and 'Allo 'Allo, but if that is what you see in the States that is no doubt is what we produce which appeals to the American sense of humour - farce is farce wherever it is shown.

Other comedy which is more culturally based is more difficult to travel.

Nick

Are you one of those people who think MASH or Cosby were funny ?

I gather you're not exactly acquainted with such jewels as "The New Statesman", "Absolutely", "Absolutely Fabulous" or "Mr. Don & Mr. George". All of which containing material that would never fly in the stifling PC bounds of American primetime TV.

Not to mention anything comparable to "Yes Minister", the most sophisticated political satire ever to appear in the form of a sitcom.

Gaby([email]) wrote in article |Not to mention anything comparable to "Yes Minister", the most |sophisticated political satire ever to appear in the form of a sitcom.

This one is absolute jewel! I've seen it twice: in original, and then translated to Russian. It's the unique case when translation adds quality to the comedy!

Anyway a) kibbutzim are shit -:) b) British humor is world's best.

Yes. Monty Python and Yes Minister are probably the crown jewels of sophisticated British humor.

            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh, our Guru, but you are generalizing again. Let me quote you:

Do you understand this?

Giora Drachsler([email]) wrote In article

|Oh, our Guru, but you are generalizing again. Let me quote you:

I'm not YOUR Guru. No sane guru would accept person so aggressively stupid as you.

And I'm not generalizing. I would explain, but you won't understand.

In article ,

So, now you say you are a sane guru?

Okay, let's try this one: Russians are shit*. Was I generalizing?

Of course, this is not true. I just want to test Stinky's responce to that outragous argument.

YoYo

BB BS OT

[email] wrote:

YoYo beware, you are becoming so proficient in CostiLogic that it might be difficult to unlearn.

Noam

But you are a Guru. Full of answers waiting for problems.

In article , [email] wrote:

Well, Giora, Stinky behaves like Old Kato here. Old Kato was A Roman senator who finished each of his speeches with the words "And Cartago must be destroyed", no matter what the speech was about. Stinky, on the other hand, no matter what the subject is will find a way to slander the left/kibbutzim. History, it was said, repeats itself twice. First time as a tragedy (the third Punic war and the destruction of Cartago) and second as a farce (Stinky makes a joke of himself by slandering those who made it possible for him to come here in the first place).

YoYo

BB BS OT

M*A*S*H was not necessarily laugh out loud funny, but it did portray a horrible period of history in a different light. I think the whole "If we weren't laughing, we'd be crying" motif made sense, and probably hit close to home for many folks who had experienced life in the armed forces.

Cosby? His stand up stuff was funny years ago, but his TV show was nothing more than a poor rehashing of the material that made him great.

Oh yeah. "Absolutely Fabulous" is flat out stupid. The slutty, drugged out blonde is, to be polite, an overused cliche in show business, and entirely out of place in a comedy. Oh, I get it. She's a female Cheech and Chong. Good riddance. And I wouldn't know about Don and George and the New Statesman, but if there was any humor in them, they would have made their way to American television. If they haven't, well, there's a commentary on how funny they are. Remember, "The Young Ones" can be used as a barometer. Anything stupider will not make it in the USA, even on a cable channel. Do you get cable TV in England? Or do you still only have like 2 channels to choose from?

Sophisticated and political maybe (I've never heard of it), but if they don't show it on American TV, the world will never know how good it is.

Humble Poet wrote:

I used to think so, until I watched them for the 2nd (or was it 3rd?) time. Now I agree with you.

[rest snipped to avoid repetiton]

Susan

How can you possibly comment about Are You Being Served being current UK programming?! It was on in the UK 25 years ago - about the same time as Monty Python...

Susan Cohen wrote in article ...

on

"Hello

you.

watch

get

time.

I've seen it a times. Not enough to get 'into it'. I don't find Rowan Atkinson all that funny at all. Really, I don't see what the hubbub is.

Never heard of it.

It had promise, but they only made like 8 episodes, right? I preferred The Young Ones, but maybe that's because it aired in the US during my college days (and I was known to do a drug or two).

The shining jewel in the crown of British comedy. As I said, you can keep the rest. MPFC is extremely funny.

Never heard of it.

Heard of it, never saw it.

The book (er, books) were absolutely fantastic. The video was absolutely horrible. Go figure.

Again, I don't find Atkinson funny. Never laughed once at any of his 'Bean' skits. Not even when he shook the queen's hand through his fly. In fact, when I first say Bean, my initial thought was, "gee. English people think this is comedy. They would just die laughing if they ever saw real comedy."

Humble Poet wrote:

The heck with them - *I* saw it! The Brits are hysterical! Ever see "Whose Line Is It Anyway"? "Red Dwarf"? The many "Blackadder" series (Some series were funnier than others) - &, from the same creator, "Mr. Bean"? Billy (Somebody) is a very funny Scottish comedian. There's also Spike Milligan, Peter Sellars, Prince Charles (yes, he's *extremely* funny - if anyone wants to hear about his wrestling match wih a bagpipe, just e-mail me), any of their tabloids, the Teledummies - oops - you know what i meant!

Susan

Are you off on your uncle sam thing again, Dave? Maybe it's time to open your mind a little.

Dave ([email]) wrote:

Well, all that I know is that I once asked my father, who served as a combat infantryman in Korea, why he refused to watch MASH. His answer was "I fought in Korea, and I didn't think that it was very funny."

-----
Richard Schultz                              [email]
Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"It is absurd to divide people into good and bad.  People are either
charming or tedious."

In [email] (Richard Schultz) writes:

I live on the upper west side of NYC, and that isn't so funny either sometimes (not to compare it to the Korean War--l'havdil). But I still can laugh at Seinfeld.

In article ,

I watched many M*A*S*H episodes on Star Plus, until they stopped broadcasting it, and at least some of the episodes were not funny at all. In one of them, the all episode is shot through the eyes of an injured soldier. In another, one doctor is waiting helplessly for his patient to die, while another one is waiting for the patient to die too because he has another patient who's life can be saved only with a graft of an artery from the dying soldier. From time to time, they had to remind you that war is not funny. And what kind of commedy uses the theme of a song with such lyrics as "Through early morning's fog I see Visions of the things to be The pain that life witheld for me I realize and I can see That suicide is painless, it brings on many changes And I can take or live it if I please..." M*A*S*H is not really a commedy. It is a biter pill covered with humour.

YoYo

BB BS OT

You have to know what M*A*S*H was about -
First - it was a TV version of the dark comedy movie M*A*S*H
       - in order to survive week after week they had to tone down the black
humour and add silly and funny bits
Second - M*A*S*H was amazing to survive at all since it was an Anti-Vietnam movie
set in Korea but really refering
               to the war that was raging there. They wanted to bring home the
horrors of a senseless war and make people
               think about the human suffering involved.

It was a brilliant balance of political satire and sit-com humour.

[email] wrote:

The angry Republican male decided to say that Louis Mayer never put liberal stuff or too much sex in his movies. This is true. catholic priests controlled the Production Code Administration and nothing could be made without first going through them. Everything had to be made to what a priest felt was moral. So catholics would not allow a movie past that was critical of the government, religon, or conservatives. They would allow a movie that deinigrated something that they felt was wrong but not anything else. This was the reason Mae West's career died.

------------------sig------------------------------
"Jesus is coming--- and boy, is he pissed!"
You'd be pissed too, if you only came once every 2,000 years.

I would just like to know why you feel 'Seinfeld' is a degrading show? You say that his show degrades women and pokes fun at relogion. Please explain in detail....concerned fan!

Lauren Lene Simpkins wrote:

Seinfeld is an equal opportunity offender. Quite humorous. Ignore the beast.

-jasonp