the Newman mystery

Do you think they'll do an episode around revealing Newman's first name?

If they do, let's hope that name is Luthor (in honor of Lex Luthor, Superman's arch-nemesis).

Does anyone know what episode marked Newman's first appearance?? Or does it just SEEM he has been around for ever??

Newmans first name is Norman.....in the episode where Jerry's car is stolen by the mechanic...and Elaine buys her boss the Kennedy golf clubs... Newman is kicked from the truck by Kramer and finds a farmhouse. The girl there says as Newman runs off..."I'll always love you Norman"

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A P X T

Tonight's episode not only stunk, but the continuity was awful as well. Jerry just wakes up and boom, there we are in Florida (unless it was mentioned at the beginning that he would be going there). Also, what was the deal with George and the hot dog stand scenario out of nowhere? I feel like the organizer and Kramer's retirement issue have already come up before. To an extent, Seinfeld had an "organizer episode" involving Elaine and the Russian writer and Kramer has probably "retired" before.

That plotline with Elaine and her boyfriend held none of the "not that there's anything wrong with it" cleverness that applied to another touchy subject, homosexuality. I was a little uncomfortable with how the show tried to address Elaine's dealing with the race issue. I don't really take things too seriously on a comedy show but I don't think this was handled well.

The whole Spanish restaurant issue may have been saying something about how Elaine, as a white person looks at minorities which isn't flattering. We already know Seinfeld is mostly about middle class white lifestyles and the characters are meant to be tactless but this may have been beyond the borders of harmless comedy. I don't know if the intent was for Elaine to be a racist or just clueless about race.

Ben

I thouhgt Elaine went to the Spanish rstaurants to find out if her boyfriend was spanish. She said something along the lines of "I think that would cover it", meaning that the guy could be only spanish if not anything else. I think it was her process of elimination. Every culture had been eliminated except for the Spanish one. I don't think they made her a racist, but rather the whole show was a satire about how uncomfortable it is to talk about other races. I thought the episode was good, especially the musicals with Kramer!

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 [email] wrote:

Anirban Haldar wrote:

i totally agree with this! every time they were talking about it, george said "i feel uncomfortable about talking about this" or "should we discuss this without him here?". did you see how much of a tip they left the waitress? they aren't sure how a situation such as an interracial relationship should be handled. they are definitely NOT against it (no one said anything negative, and elaine didn't dump the guy, even when she found out he wasn't of any african heritage and that he thought she was of hispanic descent). the episode approached stereotypical attitudes toward interracials, and i think they did it well.

did you notice that elaine was more excited to see how much he made annually ($100,000 category) than to find out what his true race was? she didn't worry so much about the race issue (she didn't give it much thought till jerry and george brought it up), but she is the MOST superficial character--i love how they always manage to send that message about her.

yeah, you're dead on about the good treatment this subject got. However, i should like to point out that the reason for choosing spanish was, in my opinion, because as a result of colonialism, spanish culture is found in most several major culture areas such as northern Africa, South America and Oceania (Phillipines). by choosing a spanish restaurant, she was "covering all bases" of what he might be. remember: she had said she gave up, this was an easy way to not worry about it.

[email] wrote:

A few months ago I read an editorial by a black writer named Karen Grigsby Bates, I hope I got that name right, in which she complained of the absence of AA's on Seinfeld. She felt the show should be a demographic microcosm of NYC. Why, she wondered, were there no blacks in Seinfelds world when there are so many living in Manhattan.

I think the post above helps to answer her question. That the cast's behaviour could be seen as tactless and / or racist demonstrates the kind of racial hypersensitivity that last night's episode parodied. If anything the characters were overly tactful and embarassed GWL's which is where the humor was coming from.

My reaction to the episode was that the way they handled race was accurate and well observed but the show just wasn't very funny. The wooden Indian episode was much funnier IMO.

Adios, Slo

NO blacks??? Apparently she's not a loyal Seinfeld viewer, there have been dozens of blacks on the show.

Not that I don't love the show, but let's be honest, there have not been dozens of blacks on "Seinfeld" as you claim. Maybe at most, a dozen. And that doesn't always mean they have great parts on the show (the only ones I can think of right now is Sid the car parker, Jackie Childs, and Jean-Paul the marathon runner. "Seinfeld" is one of the lowest-rated shows among minorities for that very reason. You can praise the show but you can't try and claim "Seinfeld" is really full of diversity when it's not.

It's still one of the best shows ever, though. I know that sounds weird, doesn't it given the diversity issue that surrounds it.

In , [email] writes:

This statement says two things. 1. You are wrong. 2. You are not much of a Seinfeld fan. I don't know if we should turn this into a 'list all of the black people on Seinfeld' thread, but there have been at LEAST several dozen, many integral to the plot, many not. Forgetting Carl, the exterminator? Mr. Morgan, with the Yankees? Howbout the security guard who George give the rocking chair to? Of course, Jean Paul and Jackie Chiles (already mentioned), Al Roker? The Mercedes driver in "The Parking Garage"? That's just off the top of my head.

Dave wrote:

Mike added...

But Dave, these have been minor roles pretty much non-recurring. There are no AA MAIN characters. Perhaps Jerry's parents could have been AA... George could have been AA or Newman (No that is a negative stereotype- can't do that). OH I know, perhaps professional people like Lawyers or Business people like the owner of Monks could be AA (Oh they were?) well... How about executives at the Yankees, members of the Susan Foundation.. oh they did that too? Hmmm. They could have made Kramer black - oh yeah, they did that too... How about an AA policeman, yep did that too...ummm ...

I'm not losing sleep over the argument, but with the exception of ER, NBC's shows are a prime example of how television is very segregated. Does no one care that we're living segregation in America through our tv shows? Every NBC comedy has at most two "token" minorities and it's very formulaic from one show to the next. Why bother, ratings show minorities don't watch NBC comedies anyhow. Anyone who lives in New York knows that there is so much more than just young, beautiful caucasian neurotics. "Seinfeld" was the first of the neurotic New York shows in the 90's, but for "Caroline in the City" or most of the other NBC sitcoms that take place in New York, it seems different. Diversity isn't an issue in just one show, it can be an issue when there's a lack of it in 5 or 6 shows.

In , [email] writes:

Nope. Not me. Here's a cool tidbit. An extensive survey was done on American TV viewing habits. Afterwards, they broke it down by race. Comparing the 10 shows most watched by blacks and the 10 shows most watched by whites, do you know what they found? The only thing that showed up on both lists was Monday Night Football.

What does this tell you? Segregation works on TV. We're not interested in their shows, they're not interested in ours. Life goes on. Many 'white' shows have their token blacks. 'Black' shows have their token whites. Each type deals with issues that relate to their target audience. Why would a show about Jewish New Yorkers appeal to black people? Why would a show like Moesha appeal to white people?

Every NBC comedy has at most two "token" minorities and it's

There are homeless people urinating in the streets in New York, that doesn't mean I want to see them in my sitcoms. What's your point?

It's only an issue when people want it to be. Diversity in television sitcoms is neither required nor necessary. You watch what you like, I watch what I like, we both get over it.

Okay, I'm going to add my two cents into this debate, it doesn't matter as long as the show is good. I could name a number of shows with all black casts that have no white recurring characters. Take the Cosby Show, which is a great show, even though there are no recurring characters that are white, other than Peter, and even he was fairly rare. There are other shows, Cosby, The Wayans Brothers, and Family Matters, that have predominantly, if not all, black casts. I'm not saying that there are more shows with all black casts then there are shows with all white casts, obviously that isn't true. I'm just saying that it goes both ways and who cares, as long as it is a good show.

What's the story, Morning Glory.

On 3 Mar 1998, Dave wrote:

What's the issue with race? Seinfeld doesn't go off and say that black people are psychopaths and Cosby doesn't go off and say that white people are dumb as yokels. Just because a mainly white show talks about black people doesn't nessessarily mean they're being racist, same thing goes with black people talking about white people. The Elaine storyline in "The Wizard" was supposed to point out the stereotypes that are placed on blacks and whites and hispanics (Like listening to rap music, different last names, going to the Gap), not point out that the gang is white supremists. I think they handled it pretty well (I don't think we should be talking about this.). If we're ever going to settle all these problems between race in television, we must look to the cookie.

In , [email] (TyrantJR45) writes:

Yeah....that is why I refuse to try one of those cookies, I don't want to ruin my streak. Coming up on 9 years now.......

Stop with all the PC/BS. Whether or not we like to admit it, most white americans dont hang with black americans and vice versa-not that there's anything wrong with that-thats just the way it is. Does anyone complain about the lack of caucasians on family matters??? as if it matters.

I don't know why people are making a big deal about no blacks on the show. If the show is funny I don't care who's in it, I'll watch it. Why do people have t care if there is a black person in the show. I'm Indian, I don't care if there isn't an indian on the show, I like the show the way it is. To date I only remember Babu as the only Pakistani/Asian person n the show!

"Believe me when I tell you that I am the greatest!" -Muhammed Ali

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 [email] wrote:

You are absolutely right, it really doesn't make a difference!

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Anirban Haldar wrote:

Does Karen Gribsly Bates, or whatever the hell her name is, lose as much sleep over Family Matters as she apparently must be losing over Seinfeld. If this country wasn't so caught up in nit-picking the small shit, maybe we would be able to fix the major racial problems that we have. If it isn't killing you, leave it the hell alone already!

Jennifer J Smith wrote in message ...

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Actually Jerry did date an indian woman in the past and it was a bit of a stereotypes-toward-races issue between these two. MY opinion was that the seinfeld show from 2/26 wasn't that good. I notice the characters are getting a bit more cocky like it wasn't before when they practically throw themselves around and acted more naturlistly. The only character that can still act is, of course, Kramer. Well, the show itself was too typical and predictable like I already knew what was going to happen. I think seinfeld's probably better off putting an end to their show this season, they're running out of ideas already!

In , [email] writes:

Looks like someone needs to pay a little more attention. Is the 9:00 starting time too late for you?

Besides it showing the Rosses that George didn't go to the Hamptons, it gave us another chance to see Romanowski. There's two good reasons, neither of which you recognized.

And this 'organizer episode' had nothing whatsoever to do with the previous use of an organizer in a plot. Hard to believe they would use a prop twice in 170 episodes, huh? I bet you hate all those cereal boxes on Jerry's shelf too.

Probably? No. But your negative mindset wants you to think so.

Actually, the ways in which Elaine tries to determine Darryl's (Darrell's) race were clever. You only saw what you wanted to see.

And I thought it was not only perfectly in character, but extremely funny as well. Are you one of those PC complainers?

Not flattering? Right. Don't bother trying to make her character seem like a real person, let's make her seem more flattering to that guy on Worldnet instead, ok?

In article , wrote:

It reminded me more of the "Pat" character on Saturday Night live. I thought it was weak. Especially with Elaine being Spanish. I thought it was funny though when they went back to being disappointed over just being a "white couple" though the "Want to go to the Gap" might have been a little overboard.

[email] wrote:

Uh yeah. He mentions that he's going to go to Florida. Didn't you also see the 4 hour plane ride?

George is avoiding the Ross' function. His lie about going to the Hampton's is funnier when we see that George really does "nothing."

But I did miss Puddy.

High Five, WT

THEN SHUT THE TELEVISION OFFor MAYBE CHANGE THE CHANNEL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WT Pfefferle, Ph.D. wrote in article <[email] t>...

[email] wrote in message ...

Yes it was.

Also, what

It was so that the parents of dead Susan would see him in town instead of the Hamptons where he claimed he would be.

And your point is?

Oh, I guess you would like to see them show Jerry on a plane for 4 hours. Plus when they're in Jerry's apartment and next scene, BOOM, they're at Monks, at least the mention they are going to Monks half the time

Also, what

It was to show that the Ross's knew that George was lying about the Hamptons house.

It wasn't about Kramer retiring, it was about him running for President, pretty damn hilarious too.

They were making observations about the misunderstandings of other races, but I agree it wasn't done as well as The Cigar Store Indian (later on that night), somepeople thinks that black people buy African American stuff and talks like "Say it sister", some people think that Irish names have to have a heavy accent, and some people think all white people go to the Gap.

I liked this episode, it was very funny, and that's all that matters.

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 [email] wrote:

I can't believe we were watching the same show! I thought it was one of the funniest of the enitre season. I still laugh when I think about Jerry telling George over the phone how important it was for him to come over and flush the toilet twice a day just to make him feel important. And you obviously didn't see the beginning of the show, because Jerry DID in fact say he was going to Florida for his dad's birthday. And what do you mean Kramer has "probably" retired before? It sounds to me like you're totally making assumptions out of the blue in order to justify what you have to say. Kramer has never retired before. I've seen every single episode, and never once has Kramer announced that he was retiring. And without the scene at the hotdog stand we wouldn't have known that the Ross's saw George in town when he was supposed to be in the Hampton's. The only part that confused me at all was how everybody could confuse such a pale person for a black man. And their constant discomfort about discussing it brought humor to what could have been an otherwise touchy issue. If you refuse to put any effort into enjoying the show and would rather make up things to find wrong with it, then do us all a favor and quit watching it. There are plenty of normal shows out there for people who don't like Seinfeld.

"Early to rise, early to bed makes a man healthy but socially dead." ---Yakko Warner

Newman's first name is unknown. I don't think anybody really knows why that girl called him Norman - just a misteak on her part, I guess. Wayne has even said that the public would never learn Newman's full name - they couldn't handle it. :-)

Michael Alexander

Its not Norman, if it was Norman, they would have called him that a couple times (like Cosmo Kramer). I think his real name is "Big Fat Ugly Guy That's Also Known As" Newman or his real name is his 3rd Rock name "Don"

Prehaps Newman first name is is Newman. Has anyone proposed that!

maybe his first name is Jerry....

T701071 wrote:

Maybe it's Rhombus. Rhombus Newman.

actually its Kurt Rhombus Oldman Newman

Newman's first name is Norman. That's a fact, or as much as fact as there can be in a fiction. Jeff Laderman

JeffBW wrote:

Marjorie, is that you?

Jonathan

In , Jonathan writes:

Good one, Jon!

On 23 Feb 1998, JeffBW wrote:

If that's such a fact, would you care to offer proof, other than the fact that some airhead girl who probably screws up everybody's name once called him that? Even his business card only says "Newman." No? Well here's some proof that it isn't. Wayne Knight was once quoted as saying that Newman's first name never was, and never would be, revealed. And that's a fact, or as much a fact as there can be in REALITY!!!

"Early to rise, early to bed makes a man healthy but socially dead." ---Yakko Warner

I didn't know Wayne was a writer for the show.

Wayne Knight doesn't have to be a writer for the show to know that they'll never reveal Newman's name. Jason Alexander never wrote for the show (he directed once), but he knows that George will probably never hold a steady job and Michael Richards doesn't write for Seinfeld but I think he knows that Kramer will never stop mooching off of Jerry. Do we even have to know what Newman's first/last name is?

In article ,

In the episode which involves Newman and Kramer taking cans and bottles to Michigan, there is the scene at the end in which Newman is seen running out of the farmhouse, and the farmers daughter yells after him: "Come back, NORMAN!" I realize that either she misunderstood his real name, or Newman gave a fake name when he arrived, but it struck me as appropriate that Newman's real name could be Norman Newman.

Very respectfully,

Troy.

I always assumed the daughter thought that Newman was actually Norman from Cheers, Norm for short. Anyone else agree? [email]

That could easily be because the daught only knew Newman for a short while, Norman is a much more common name

I thought it was a play on how stupid/hick she ways, totally misunderstanding his name... Jafo On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Allen C. Eddington wrote:

Allen C. Eddington wrote in article ...

from

No, I think the whole point was to demonstrate that the girl wasn't very bright and couldn't remember Newman's name

That's the beauty of it! I can't substantiate, but a few years ago Jerry told this story in an interview.

The actress was supposed to say Newman, but messed up the line.  They
decided it was much funnier this way; The irony of a woman saying she'd
never forget Newman, and then calling him by the wrong name appealed to
them.  Apparently it really cracked everyone up on the set when it
happened, and they chose to leave that scene in rather than reshoot.
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Dave wrote:

Which is more or less what I had said... In so many words. =)

When the farmer's daughter called out, "Goodbye Norman!" I thought this referred to the 1960 movie "Psycho" where Anthony Perkins played the very wierd Norman Bates at Bates motel, which, looked a lot like that farmhouse.

Beverlee

Troy D. Spencer wrote:

The key part is the previous line. "But daddy, I love that man!" The funny part is that she is protesting her father kicking the "man she loves" out of their house, and she doesn't even know his name.

Paul52751 wrote:

I think it will finally be revealed as Mirskman Newman.

Personally, I think that they'll never reveal it. Its one of those great TV mysteries that will never be solved.

[email] (TyrantJR45) wrote:

So was Kramer, and they opted to reveal that point...

-Kevin

But that doesn't mean that they're going to do it again.

:

Prehaps it's Isosceles. Isosceles Newman, yeah, that's it!

Correct-a-mundo!!

His name is "Newman, Newman." :-)

In , "Scott R. Simpson" writes:

Nah. I had thought it was possible until someone pointed out that's what they did with Wilson on Home Improvement. He was apparently just called "Wilson", until they revealed his full name was "Wilson Wilson".

Scott R. Simpson wrote:

I always assumed his first name was "Hello"

Michael Smith wrote:

Only about a 1000 times. I will now say "Paul", "Norman", "Jerry" and "Oldman".

Jonathan

[email] (TAFKAM1) wrote:

:Do you think they'll do an episode around revealing Newman's first name?

I really hope not.

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