Is Elaine Jewish? (more evidence)

Jerry calls George & gets instead Donna Chang, a woman he thinks is Chinease. He find out her name was originally Changstein. From which the following dialouge with Elaine comes:Elaine "If she isn't Chinease, what is she?' Jerry:"She's like you." If Donna is Changstein the inference is that Elaine is also Jewish. A clue most people didn't spot the first time around.

Although (and I didn't see the credits so I can't be sure), it is also possible that it was Donna Changsteen, and so the implication is that Elaine is Dutch!

Renee

Just kidding.

===============================================================================

Lee Salem writes:

In tonight's episode, which I will call "The Mentor" since I don't know the title yet, Elaine categorically says, "I'm not Jewish." Unless she converted or is in denial, case closed! :-)

In article , RFerrie writes:

following

She's like you could mean just Not Chinese.

It Shrinks..???

Just Me, Lisa

 [email]
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Get the honey!"

                 ------------------------- "Fatso"

More evidence in the "no she isn't" category (besides her categorical "I'm not Jewish" statement on 10/31.):

1. She was decorating a Christmas tree in her apartment when she was dating the Communist guy.

2. She crossed herself before entering Jerry's fumigated apartment to retreive a manuscript.

Apologies if these instances have already been brought up here.

1. There is a house in my city that is decorated with a neon Star of David and a manger scene on the lawn when December rolls around.

2. I say Jesus Christ and god damn it and make the cross symbol with my fingers. I am an atheist.

No proof of anything.

• The Star of David and a manger are NOT contradictory.

2. If you are trying to prove that it is possible that Elaine is an atheist, then you might have a point. But the discussion is about if Elaine is Jewish, not if Elaine is an atheist. I know you understand logic, I saw you post about it. Maybe you can revue your work here and make the necessary corrections prior to the test:

You say: I make the sign of the cross, I am an atheist, Elaine makes the sign of the cross, therefore she might be Jewish.

1. The Star of David and a manger scene may not be contradictory. However, it is contradictory for someone to practice Judaism and believe in Jesus Christ. The Star of David, as far as I have been taught, is a symbol of Judaism. A manger scene is a symbol of Christianity. Two pieces of wood in a cross symbol are a symbol of Christianity, but not necessarily. They are also just two pieces of wood. So, therefore, a Star of David is not necessarily a Jewish symbol, just as a cross is not necessarily a Christian symbol. But they usually are.

2. I am not trying to prove that Elaine is an atheist. I am saying that Elaine is possibly an atheist, possibly a Christian, possibly Jewish in the non-religious sense of the word "Jewish." What do I think is true, probably? That Elaine is not Jewish in any sense of the word, and probably Christian, but not definitely.

And finally, I say I make the sign of the cross at times, ALTHOUGH I am an atheist. Not "therefore." So, I do NOT say that Elaine makes the sign of the cross, THEREFORE she may be Jewish. I say that Elaine makes the sign of the cross, ALTHOUGH she may be Jewish, not THEREFORE she may be Jewish.

Huckleberry wrote in article ...

David

What if: She is Jewish but she really doesn't know it! They should make an episode when her parents come to visit ro something and tell her that they aren't Cristian and it isn't a big deal.

On 31 Oct 1996, David A. Tharp wrote:

That "evidence" is pretty weak, if you ask me. Hey I know, how about in the Oct. 31 episode when she says, "I'm not Jewish?" Wouldn't that be clear evidence that she isn't? What do you think?

20 years ago the Atlantic Monthly did an article about Jewish America. The author of the article was innvited to attend a privite seder. "But I'm an atheist", she said. "You're a Jewish atheis", her hostess replied. This is notable for two reasons. The late Harry Golden thought that the Jews were an ethnic group as well as a religeous group. Also as I (and a number of others) pointed out American Jews do indeed send Christmas cards & in other ways participate in Chriestian rituals.

On 9 Nov 1996 15:13:55 GMT, [email] (David A. Tharp) wrote:

You are an idiot!

On 9 Nov 1996 15:13:55 GMT, [email] (David A. Tharp) wrote:

other

Jews send Christmas cards to their CHRISTIAN friends. We are wishing THEM a nice Christmas, not ourselves.

In article , Jeremy_Zorn_'[email] says...

By the above, I take it that you are Jewish...Anyway, I had mentioned in a previous post that SOME Jewish people actually send CHRISTMAS cards to their Christian acquaintences. The concept was unacceptable to some people for reasons yet unknown.

You are a good example of a Jew that sends Christmas cards. The fact that Elaine sent Christmas cards was cited as evidence by some that she was not Jewish. The point is, even though I feel that the character of Elaine is NOT Jewish, the fact that she sent Christmas cards is NOT good evidence of anything except that she has some Christian acquaintences.

Agreed?

In article , [email] (Huckleberry) wrote:

What (or who) would be a "bad" example of a Jew that sends Christmas cards?

In article , [email] says...

A bad example of a Jew that sends Christmas cards would be one that sends it for reasons other than I mentioned. "Good" in this case means well-fitting the original case, which was a Jew that sent Christmas cards to their Christian acquaintances. A "bad" example, an ill-fitting, non-parallelling exxample, would be a Jew that sent Christmas cards to all their acquaintances. Another "bad" example would be a Jew that sent Christmas cards only to those who were not Christian. Another bad example would be a Jew that sent Christmas cards only to Jewish acquaintances. Etc.

This point is moot anyway. I was referring to those people (I'm not sure you were one of them or not) who flat-out refused to accept the notion of Jews sending Christmas cards.

In article , [email] (Huckleberry) wrote:

OY!!!!

Bao, I'm sure you are a perfectly nice, well-meaning guy. That's what makes your subtle, apparently unconscious brand of anti-semitism so upsetting.

Tell me the truth--are some of your "best friends" Jewish?

djk

In article , [email] says... -> A bad example of a Jew that sends Christmas cards would be one that sends -> for reasons other than I mentioned. "Good" in this case means well-fitting -> the original case, which was a Jew that sent Christmas cards to their -> Christian acquaintances. A "bad" example, an ill-fitting, non-parallelling -> exxample, would be a Jew that sent Christmas cards to all their -> acquaintances. Another "bad" example would be a Jew that sent Christmas cards -> only to those who were not Christian. Another bad example would be a Jew that -> sent Christmas cards only to Jewish acquaintances. Etc.

What is anti-Semitic about what I wrote above? Good and bad don't have to mean "desirable" and "undesirable." I emailed you the rest because I think this part of the discussion could not possibly interest anyone else.

Distribution: world

I wouldn't claim anti-semitism based on your comments, however your fixation on Elaine's religion/ethnicity seems to me to border on obsessive/compulsive.

In article , [email] says... ->: What is anti-Semitic about what I wrote above? Good and bad don't have to ->: mean "desirable" and "undesirable." -> -> I wouldn't claim anti-semitism based on your comments, however your ->fixation on Elaine's religion/ethnicity seems to me to border on ->obsessive/compulsive. ->

I have no fixation on Elaine's religion/ethnicity. I simply stand firm in the defense of my usage of standard rules of deductive logic and definitions found in modern dictionaries. Elaine--who gives a flying ---k? She's most likely not Jewish, and I have always said that.

Finally this thread has an end!!!! He just said it.. "who gives a flying ---k" Game over. Nobody wins ... and nobody cares.....

Are you kidding - I think that this ENTIRE discussion is getting awfully tiresome!!

Distribution: world

In article , Jeremy_Zorn_'[email]

Except that she sent one of the cards to Jerry.

Disagreed.

->> the fact that she sent Christmas cards is NOT good evidence of ->> anything except that she has some Christian acquaintences.

What was written in/on the card?

Would Elaine be asked to organise a Moil (sp?) if she were not Jewish?

Matthew

In article , [email] says... ->Would Elaine be asked to organise a Moil (sp?) if she were not Jewish? ->

Though I think Elaine is not Jewish, I am not familiar with this particular plot detail. Also, I am not familiar with Moil (sp?) protocol...

On 22 Nov 96 11:32:10 +1100, [email] (THE MOCK FROG) wrote:

would you entrust your son's penis to ANY of those clowns on seinfeld... in reality the parents and/or the rabbii would find the mohel. so.............. say this three times.. it is television - it is television - it is television and call me in the morning.

You don't organize a "Moil" (it's a yiddish word, don't worry about trying to spell it in english), you organize a bris. The moil does the snipping at the bris. Since all it involves is hiring a moil and lining up space, I think anyone with some intelligence could do it.

We have direct evidence that Elaine is not Jewish in the form of "I am not Jewish". You cannot have more conclusive proof than that. Yet the intransigent somehow refuse it as proof, so I offer this (for those who prefer implicit and nebulous evidence): Did you see her cousin who dated Jerry in the winking episode (the one who made mutton)? Did she appear Jewish?

SKUG (who has this laughable suspicion he's about to be met by countless diatribes and comparisons to Himmler and Hitler)

No such comparisons forthcoming, though I am interested in what you feel makes someone "appear 'Jewish'"

Anyway, I have a cousin that is 6'2", brown hair, white skin. I am 5'7", black hair, olive/light brown skin. I am native-born Vietnamese. I guess you would, upon meeting my cousin and being informed that he was my cousin, come to the immediate conclusion that he is Vietnamese since he is my cousin.

I don't know if she's Jewish or not. But if she was. I'd be all over her like a piece of matzoh brie! She's one hot latke!!!!!

She's not Jewish! She has done volunteer work which involved a church (no temple) and Christmas and when she confided in the Rabbi about her jealousy re: Georges upcoming marriage, Jerry said something about how she shouldn't think that all Jews are bad at keeping confidences, which would imply that she's not Jewish. Furthermore, when kramer throws the Jewish singles dance (wasn't it?", she says that she's not Jewish (and Kramer says "neither am I" so lets not start that one)

In article , [email] says...

'fraid you're a bit late to suggest not starting "that one." Started quite a while back.

I was all ready with a reference to Julius Streicher, the Jew-baiting publisher of der Stuermer, the NAZI newspaper, but you make a good point. While OF COURSE there are blond jews and jews who live in Towson MD, etc. if you are going to PORTRAY someone as jewish you don't give them those characteristics. Why in god's name would this show try to portray someone as a hidden jew? It's just a sitcom, not the Winds of War.

Bob Wells

Bob Wells wrote:

I was going to let this issue die, but I've given it a lot of thought over the past few days.

Keep in mind that it doesn't matter if the performers or the shows producers are jewish, we all agree that it's possible for a jewish person to write shows with no jewish characters.

Is Elaine Jewish? Some may say "she looks jewish..." but we're not going to dwell on that one. So, what's the answer?

In one episode, she declares "I'm not jewish." Clear enough, but she could be joking or lying.

BUT -- she's asked to arrange the baby's bris. A-ha, you say, a non-jew wouldn't know what to do. But then I remembered that episode. Elaine was asked to do this because SHE'S A GOOD ORGANIZER. I believe that. And to me this breaks apart the argument that she's jewish.

In addition, she sends Christmas Cards (NIP) to her friends and family. If she were jewish they would have been hannakuh or non-denominational cards.

With all the evidence weighed, the scales are tipped at NON-JEWISH in my opinion.

[email] (Jonathan Roppolo) wrote:

Okay good.. this discussion is over..