Seinfeld vs Home imp...

I don't see the overlap. I mean I don't find home improvement the slightest bit funny. The humour (I know there's some there somewhere) is not at all the same as Seinfeld.

What's the problem?

Yes, but there's Pamela Anderson, the Tool Time girl! Just her alone is reason enough to watch the show!!!

This confirms my impression of Home Improvement after having only seen it once - the main character is a chauvinist jerk and I think men like to watch it because it alleviates their guilt. About the Tool Time girl (whom I don't remember noticing), compare Home Improvement without the Tool Time girl to Seinfeld without Elaine. If you feel that Home Improvement experiences the greater loss, then you probably drink Budweiser.

No way! Men like to watch it because it's one of the only shows (if not *the* only show) worth watching that treats the typical sitcom-situations from a *male* perspective. Not exactly ground-breaking sociological research but a refreshing change from all the shows about teenagers, women (Golden Girls, Designing Women ad nauseum), doctors, lawyers, thirtysomethings, twentysomethings, cutesy families, etc.

Home Improvement is the first show I've seen that has dared to say "Yes, I'm a man...I play with power tools, I play with cool stereo equipment, I often don't understand women, and I LIKE IT!". I don't think Tim is a chauvinist nor would a chauvinist enjoy watching this kind of show.

Andrew.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Sterian                   | For the teddy bear who has
[email]          | everything: a person.
University of Michigan, EECS     |

Yes and no. Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor usually get's his comeuppance when he acts like a MCP. :-) My wife certainly enjoys the show, FWIW. I don't think it's a "guy" show at all.

Don

These happen to be the only two network shows I watch (with an occasional Simpsons) but I must agree that the humor is different. HI is about male/female relationships and Seinfeld is about "nothing". d8^) However the two shows share the common traits of being well-written comedies that are apolitical and "hip".

I can't explain why these shows can appeal to the same viewers but I claim that they do for the most part. Must be something...

[email] (Earl Scott Seifert) writes:

I agree. My wife and I watch very little TV, but we rarely miss HI or Seinfeld. The trouble is that we have other activites on Wednesday night, so we can't watch one and tape the other. So, now we fight over which show to tape (BTW I'm for Seinfeld). ABC screwed up big-time moving HI opposite Seinfeld (IMHO). I think it will hurt *both* shows.

--Mike (no sig)

The answer is clear You now have justification to go an buy that second VCR. You should thank the networks for giving you a reason to aquire more cool video equiptment. Plus you can now copy rented video tapes.

Unfortunately, in the Nielsen ratings released last Thursday or Friday in the LA Times, Home Improvement pretty well thrashed Seinfeld, but I don't have the numbers with me. The complete ratings for the week should be out today or tomorrow. The Times also had an interesting Seinfeld vs. Tim Allen article last Wednesday, and the move to put both shows on at the same time.

John

George summed up the reason why people watch a show like 'Home Improvemnet' on last night's episoide. When asked why people would watch the show about nothing he and Jerry were pitching he said, 'Because it's on TV'.

PJH

In article [email] writes:

Get married. Have kids. Buy some power tools. *poof* Home Improvement will then be incredibly funny! :-) :-) :-)

If you have already done two or more of the above and don't see the humor, than I guess it's not your type of show. <shrug> I find Seinfeld, Home Improvement, and Murphy Brown all hilarious...

Don

Yeah, buy some power tools and use them as an excuse for not learning how to cook or any other skills required to share the work in raising children and keeping a household.

I think the basis of any really great show is the characterization. THe Seinfeld show is great on that, and so's Murphy Brown. But I have a humor failure with HI. I know a lot of women who work to help support the family and also have to do all the work at home because their husbands - like the guy on HI - think that doing a little repair around the house can be traded off against having to feed a family every night, do the grocery shopping, wash the clothes, and clean the toilets. I know all about what kind of work it takes because I've helped raise three kids and I shared all the work over 27 years of marriage. And I just get livid when I see some guy who thinks its cute that he doesn't know how to cook or wash clothes.

That's not what I said OR meant. Note the smileys?

Well, I've got 3 kids, but my experience is only over 10 years of marriage so you've got me there. :-) Since my wife works full time, we split the household chores about equally. I don't cook *nearly* as well as my wife, but I get by. Conversly, she doesn't fix cars/bikes/appliances very well. Neither of us could replace the other 100% -- she has her areas of speciality and I have mine. It's a good partnership! :-)

Even though Tim Taylor's attitude towards women is pretty far from mine, I still see the humor in the show. It should be noted that Jill does not work (even part time I believe) and the kids are all school-aged. If she does the bulk of the housework, I think that's about right. Working or with kids home during the day is another story.

Don

Sorry, on this topic I can get carried away.

Sorry again. I only watched one program, and I assumed that she, like most wives, worked. It's pretty hard for a family with children to survive these days if both spouses don't work. I suppose, though, that a TV sitcom can rely on a little fantasy now and then.

What!?! "Sorry" ??? This is the NET, you're supposed to FLAME, not actually carry on a real conversation, listen to each other's views etc. :-) :-) :-) :-)

I agree with you. Guys who say "that's women's work" and _mean_ it really get to me. I'm probably from the Heinlein school of thought: Women are equal but _different_. :-)

Regarding the Home Improvement family being single income, the assumption on my part is that since the husband is TV "talent", he has an income which equates to an average 2-person income. They have mentioned/implied on occasion that Jill works part time (I think), and one episode revolved around her job hunt, so it's very possible you saw one of these episodes.

If you have only seen one episode, I'd encourage you to take another look when you have the time. The Tim Taylor character lampoons the macho image more than he glorifies it. And his eclectic, all-knowing neighbor is great! I know the show had to "grow" on me.

Don

And women who say "that's men's work" and _mean_ it really get to me. My experience is that there are just as many sexist women as there are sexist men.

Now maybe somebody can remind me about what this has to do with Seinfeld???

Come on people, this is getting ridiculous. This is not rec.tv.seinfeld-and-home-improvement. I don't think Seinfeld is going anywhere just because home improvement is on at the same time. NBC knows they have a good show although it might not be the greatest thing on the Neilsen ratings.

Sure, I've seen home improvement and I've liked it, but I can't watch TV wednesday night so must tape one. I tape Seinfeld...no contest. I don't need to hear why I should or shouldn't like home improvement. The reason that Seinfeld has a newsgroup is because it is a cult show. Not a LOT of people watch it, but those who do are mostly die hard fans. And for this 'not learning how to cook' flame war, please take it to e-mail.

This is all IMHO, of course :-)

And to make this note worthwhile, does anybody know how far along Julia (Elaine) is in her pregnancy and when she might be back? Her absence seems to really hurt the show.

Mike

Which is exactly how I feel, and exactly why I like Home Improvement, although I'm passing it up in favor of Seinfeld. This show is NOT about how great it is to be a macho kind of guy! Tim is put in his place on EVERY show, either by his Tool Time partner, his wife, or his neighbor (if he doesn't do it to himself!) (Excuse me please, I'm brain-dead when it comes to names, even though I watch this show regularly.)

Partner and Neighbor are two of the most original, well-developed characters on television today! AND, the kids are terrific as well! They're not the smart-ass, older-than-their-years wunderkinds of most family sitcoms; they act like real kids and are good at it! That's what made the Cosby show work, although the Hollywood professionals didn't understand it and gave us Erkel in response.

I think the people who find HI to be sexist have either not really been paying attention to the show or have accidently been tuning in to The Flintsones.