WAKE UP PEOPLE!

It's shocking to me that more fans aren't raising holy heck about the rash of KOTH fansite closings in recent weeks.

When all this began, I expected much more discussion in these groups. In fact, even the vast majority of my fellow KOTH fansite operators are silent ... perhaps thinking, "Maybe they won't come for me."

Are y'all just unaware of what's happening? Here's the score:

• KOTH Texas Aggie Style
• alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters (the website)
• Dummyhead's KOTH page
• Brotherhood of fans of KOTH

... all chose to go offline after being contacted by Fox. And those are just the one I've managed to find out about.

Meanwhile, I've got lawyers for Fox calling me *AT WORK* ... and I don't expect to be online by the end of the month.

I've kept track of these happenings ... GET INFORMED! http://www.cyberramp.net/~noel/rside/boom/fox.html

Dang ol' -N!

I understand what's going on. I think what FOX is doing is stupid, and selfish. Let us people on the internet have fun! Let us make KoTH websites, what's the big deal for FOX?

Joya Nappo [email]

I'm Half the Man I Used to Be! -Stone Temple Pilots!

noel wrote:

As an artist, I know how it feel to get ripped off by lazy and ignorant people. I spend many hours making up ORIGINAL MATERIAL from my expertise and GOD'S help. It is sad when someone steals your art and puts their name on it as their own for personal profit. I have to sue the perp in court at my expense AFTER I have registered and paid for the copyright. Then, I still may not recoup and just settle and sell the copyright to perp. for the cost of a lengthly trial. I would love to have the lawyers and clout that a major network would have.

I suggest that you start a fan club, get copyright rights on the products from the network and sell your products on the internet if there IS such a big demand for KOTH material. I remember when Barney started, now its a BILLION dollary industry. Get the picture?

In article , mykol wrote:

FYI, the websites are equal to a fan club in many ways. It's FANS that are creating the websites, for others and themselves to enjoy!! They are not "ripping off" Fox; all the fan sites I've seen so far duly state that the characters and likenesses are the property of Fox Television, etc. etc.

This isn't about selling products or selling anything. Where did you get THAT idea??? So comparing fan inspired web sites to a toy product is absurd!!!

I'm not much a big fan of KOTH, but do like the X-Files. I understand that X-Files are in video release so giving away part of the product or story lines could hurt sales.

Like I suggested, but my point seems to have missed the target. An artist gets paid for product. Some artists like those in the movie business can get royalties well after the first showing of the product due to videotape, posters, soundtrack and other material. If FOX ever wanted to do the same for KOTH, they would have to go back and sue and possibly LOOSE their trademark or copyright on their material if they didn't DEFEND it.

My IDEAS on Barney was to show encourage some bright people who may have wished to get rich. Legal fan sites are regulated, licensed and pay royalties. They also get the best products to the people for a cost.

Stealing artist material should be discouraged in every way. This is not the Socialist States of America where everyone should bow down for the good of the superstate.

So, it would be ok if we photocopied the new John Grisham novel (for example) and gave the copies to everybody we met, just as long as we let them know it was Grisham who wrote it? Doesn't sound right to me. Sounds like Grisham (and his agent and publisher, etc.) would be losing lots of money on this one, even though everybody knows he "owns" the copyright.

Just because you admit your stealing doesn't mean you're not stealing.

-- Andy

Andy Bogursky wrote:

Your incorrect in the fact that a book must be purchased while a web-site on the other hand doesn't. The copyrighted material is being used not for marketing advertising or otherwise selling. Yes Grisham and Co. would lose money in the same way people lose money when people copy CD's and give the dub to their friends. Fan-sites do not follow in this pattern. Example could be the multitude of music group fan sites. The artists images, band logo, lyrics, song titles, etc., are copyrighted but are freely used on fan-sites w/o any lawyers going on "witch hunts" handing out "cease and desist" letters. Why? Because it generates public awareness which they hope will create more revenue w/o paying anything.

BJ:

I am not attacking you. In fact, this is the first post I've written directed toward you personally (hence the "BJ:" above). I am attempting to explain to you, and anybody else reading this thread, why posting unauthorized copies of copyrighted material is wrong and should be discouraged. I am not accusing you of doing this. This is a public forum. Followups to your posts are not necessarily personal messages for you.

-- Andy

Hi I sent this to fox
"Dear fox,
              I would just like to say what a great show King of the
hill (KOTH) is, but as I live in the UK it takes quite awhile for them
to get here, so finding up to date info is quite hard, which is why I
use the fan sites on the WWW.
So could you please stop shutting them down as it's the only way for
some people to get current info on one of your best shows.
Regards
             Chris."

And they said

"A STATEMENT FROM FOX REGARDING FAN WEBSITES

In response to erroneous rumors circulating on some internet websites, Fox wishes to assure fans of "THE X-FILES", "MILLENNIUM", "KING OF THE HILL" and "THE SIMPSONS" that it is not Fox's intention to shut down bona fide websites created by fans devoted to these programs. However, Fox must require all websites using copyrighted and trademarked materials to comply with guidelines that protect the creative integrity of the programs they represent. Fox has not asked any websites to be closed except a few which were using program materials in an inappropriate manner. Some examples of inappropriate uses we have found include: (a) using copyrighted photographs, images and sounds which have not been approved for distribution; (b) removing Fox's copyright and trademark notices and asserting ownership by a third party, or asserting that copyrighted and trademarked materials are in the public domain; (c) copying or altering text, photographs, images, designs and logos from official websites without permission or attribution; (d) copying or altering photographs, images, designs and logos from programs in a manner that denigrates the programs, the actors or the characters they portray; (e) using photographs, images, designs and logos to promote a product or commercial business or service; (f) carrying advertising for parties not associated with the programs; and (g) offering unlicensed merchandise for sale; We know true fans do not encourage inappropriate activities and respect the hard work of the many talented and imaginative people who make Fox's programs unique. Fox appreciates the support of all fans in protecting its creative rights and proprietary interests.

Thanks for writing MJ FOX Scheduling"

The trouble with lawyers pursuing copyright is that it is _way_ to easy to get carried away with it. For example. Given that there was no "alt.conspiracy.black.helicopter" newgroup until the character of Dale mentioned it, are we infringing on copyright everytime we post? Many lawyers would say yes.

The language would choke quickly if things that were written and spoken in thousands of publications and hundreds of transmitters could never be used again for fear of copyright infringement.

In article , "vaccine" wrote:

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? If people were stealing artistic material it would be best described as an unethical form of capitalism. The government is not stealing anything KOTH-related, nor is it forcing FOX et al to give up their rights to their products, and it is not otherwise involved in the business of the fan sites - thus making it impossible to describe the situation, real or hypothetical, as a form of socialism. Or maybe you're one of the types who doesn't get the alt.conspiracy.black-helicopters joke...

Maybe there should be a disclaimer in this group like an official FAQ that directs the conpiracy KOOKS to Alt.Kooks

Steven S. Palmer 
http://home1.gte.net/sputers/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4001/
-------------------------------------------
Key ID 0x69D430FB
Key fingerprint = A706 43EC 13B6 D8E4 9F19  F2D4 63A8 E71D 69D4 30FB
Public Key located in the Public Key Directory at:
              <http://www.pgp.com/>
or e-mail with Public Key as the subject line
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I'm sick and tired of having to rearrange my life
    because of what the STUPIDEST people *might* do or
    how they *might* react."
       -- Bill Maher

the

of

To clarify... It was a hidden slap at Red China and a few other governments. As an example, they steal software, manufacture illegal CD's giving nothing to the individuals who spent countless hours at their craft and millions of dollars into product development. Then they use the profits to enter a capitalist market with slave labor from their camps. Are we not hurt when we are knifed? Do we not bleed? When a common thief steals, its done to provide personal entertainment, drugs or money. When governments steal, it means they are lazy, ignorant, evil or useless as a provider to their people.

"vaccine" wrote:

Um, I think that should be "we are not anarchists..." In socialism the rule of law is understood to be applied equally to all for the benefit of all. But that's another discussion.

J

vaccine wrote in message ...

Theoretically. But that doesn't explain Family Matters now, does it? Something special my ass!

 ;-)

That

"taking"

to

I know you want this debate to end, but I think there's a point that hasn't been tackled here, and since you're coherent and thoughtful about the subject, I'd like your opinion on something. . .

Most "fans" create sites in tribute, as a tribute. A fan site IS selling something. . .the original product!!!

And it's selling it to those who are interested enough to look up these sites.

This isn't at all like photocopying the latest Grisham novel - assuming we're talking about TV fans, the shows are aired publicly (though are not public domain, obviously).

Any fan willing to spend his time promoting the show by using these clips in a web site should be given accolades. It's free publicity.

Now, of course, if someone's making money of their own directly off the site, OR if the site spins the original material into a direction which is determental to the original product, by all means close them down. Yet even bad publicity can be publicity.

let

The truth is (out there, whoops, sorry), The truth is that FOX alienates it's most loyal following everytime it does something that bone-headed. You simply CAN'T look to past laws and situations to resolve this. . .it's a new world (and they're bringing old world thinking to it.)

Anyway - What's your thoughts on that, Vac?

MAC

MAC wrote:

Amen, you BET it's free publicity. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Right again. No one's addressing the publicity (positive or negative) factor. All these fan sites that are being closed down by FOX, Mattel Toys, whoever--every one of the sites I've seen IS giving the original manufacturer/company free, *positive* publicity with their fan-made site.

Our wiretapping shows that on Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:55:17 -0700, mykol said...

I agree with you to a point, mykol, but none of the sites were selling anything! They were fan sites with pictures, sound files (Hey, who DOESN'T love Boomhauer's internet ramble?), and other miscellaneous stuff about the show. Now if I grabbed some of your artwork, put up a site and sold your stuff with my name on it, feel free to take my lame ass to court and sue for damages, mental anguish, pain and suffering, lost work due to stress, and whatever else your lawyer can think of. But if I found you artwork, be it music, paintings, photography, stand-up comedy, mime,etc, to be really meaningful to me, and I want to show the world your stuff and discuss your artwork with other fans, don't sic your suits on me. And That's All I've Got To Say About That.

Sometimes the company may have no choice but to get nasty. In the case of trademarks, if you don't actively discourage trademark violations, you can LOSE the trademark. It doesn't matter if it's a competing company or a random person on the street. With images and sound, there are probably similar concerns that requinre a company to assert their copyrights.

STOP CROSSPOSTING THIS CRAP TO ALT.CONSPIRACY.BLACKHELICOPTERS!~!!!!!!!!

noel wrote:

Maybe alt.tv.koth was, but alt.conspiracy.black-helicopter WAS NOT, so keep it in your own damn newsgroup, asshole. You're wasting my time with this crap.

This dumbass: solitaire sent me an email telling me not to crosspost: STOP CROSSPOSTING THIS CRAP TO ALT.CONSPIRACY.BLACKHELICOPTERS!~!!!!!!!!

I did not crosspost and I made a huge error in apologizing to your ass! GO TO HELL. That group was created for KOTH you moronic dipshit dictating little bastard. Fucking assholes tell me where I can post, what I can say, get your facts straight before you send me shit!!

See the Bill Maher quote, i think it was intended for people like you.

Steven S. Palmer 
http://home1.gte.net/sputers/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4001/
-------------------------------------------
Key ID 0x69D430FB
Key fingerprint = A706 43EC 13B6 D8E4 9F19  F2D4 63A8 E71D 69D4 30FB
Public Key located in the Public Key Directory at:
              <http://www.pgp.com/>
or e-mail with Public Key as the subject line
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I'm sick and tired of having to rearrange my life
    because of what the STUPIDEST people *might* do or
    how they *might* react."
       -- Bill Maher

Solitaire. "alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters" is a King of the Hill usenet group. It was started after a character on the program, Dale Gribble, made reference to the Usenet group (then nonexistent).

Sorry for the confusion, but the error is yours.

Dang ol' -N!

What the hell does this have to with "conspiracy.black.helicopters"??????

noel wrote: