Peggy's Righteous Indignation

well, Peg sure took the news hard.......almost personally, you might
say.......almost as if it reminded her of something that's gnawed her
own peace of mind for the last few years, eh? now, i'm not saying "no
doubt about it, Peggy plus Bill equals Bobby," but they _sure_ are
throwing a buncha clues at us.......looks like they want us to wonder
about it, at least...........
       BTW, how 'bout John Redcorn's line to Hank? he promised he'd
never heal Peggy as he "heals the wives of others."
       is this Arlen or Peyton Place?

I thought the episode was great.I loved it when Peggy was about to tell all to Dale,then she sees how good he is to Joseph,and she can't do it.I really don't think that Peggy and Bill were ever "together",I think she just felt bad for Dale.

Jessi

This was one of the coolest episodes I've seen in a long time! It was funny when Dale was cheering for John Redcorn during that baseball game! I was cracking up! Dale has become my new favorite! Also, it was interesting to see Peggy's reaction after she found out about the Nancy & John Redcorn affairs. It was funny how she went to see Minh, and Minh wanted to email Kahn about Peggy's ignorance about the affairs!

Great episode! I hope to see more as good as this in the near future! The best lines were: Peggy: Jo-hohn Redcorn! John: Pe-heggy Hill! And also, Dale's sing-song cheer: "Big Bad John!" :)

Joya Nappo [email]

Are You Wrapped Up In a World That's Been Planned Out For You?! -Green Day!

CMJ wrote in article ...

I

What was really funny was when she finally starts looking hard at John Redcorn, Jopseph Gibble, and Nancy Gribble. Finally, a little connection is made in her brain.

I just have to wonder what took her so long. I figured it out the moment I saw Joeseph.

	"Hank, your wife is trying to run away with me"
					-Dale

            "Are you saying that Nancy and John Redcorn did something to
your dog?"
					-Dale

Johnny Rhyne wrote:

] What was really funny was when she finally starts looking hard at John ] Redcorn, Jopseph Gibble, and Nancy Gribble. Finally, a little connection is ] made in her brain.

Yup, and the same scene was funny when they showed us Beavis figuring out that the television was missing in _Beavis and Butt-Head Do America_. There they were bringing people up to speed who might not have been aware that Beavis is stupid as far as everyday events are concerned (though he is rather profound in other fields). Here they were bringing people up to speed who might not have been aware that Peggy Hill is naive and trusting. There is certainly a similarity in appearance between John Redcorn and Joseph Gribble.

] I just have to wonder what took her so long. I figured it out the moment I ] saw Joeseph.

Pretty clever. A slower person might have missed it. What did you make of the fact that in flashbacks the young Bill Dauterive looks just like the present-day Bobby Hill?

So what do we have now that we didn't have before the last episode was aired? Still no hard evidence of an affair, but a little more innuendo.

Before we had three of the characters (Hank Hill, Bill Dauterive, and Boomhauer) showing some discomfort at the word "healer", which _could_ imply that they suspected an affair (though it could imply that they didn't want to use the word "doctor" for a licensed new-age healer).

Now we have Hank Hill, Boomhauer, Luanne Platter, Minh Souphanousinphone, and Kahn Souphanousinphone admitting to prior suspicions, and Bill Dauterive and Peggy Hill denying prior suspicions, but jumping aboard the suspicion train.

We have a new explanation of the appearance of Joseph offered: Dale's grandmother is Jamaican. It happens that I was born in Jamaica, as was my father. My father went to Jamaica High School. I went to a different high school, but I went to college in Jamaica. It's as good an explanation as any I've heard suggested on this newsgroup.

What we haven't had so far is Word One on the subject from Cotton Hill, who has demonstrated the ability to distinguish a Laotian from other Asians, and hasn't yet been shy about expressing his thoughts. What we also haven't heard is Word One on the subject from Dooley, who has demonstrated an ability to leap to conclusions, and hasn't yet been shy about expressing his thoughts.

They've shown Luanne Platter in bed with Buckley (fully clothed), and they've shown Boomhauer in bed with an unidentified woman (naked at least down to the shoulders), but they've never shown John Redcorn in bed with Nancy Gribble.

So we are left with a family show on broadcast television that either might be provoking laughter at an adulterous affair between a licensed new-age healer and a patient OR (after two shows about jumping to unwarranted conclusions, and a season premiere called "Death of a Propane Salesman") might JUST POSSIBLY be poking fun at an audience gullible enough to get worked up about a possible move to Hollywood during the summer hiatus.

It could go either way. Let's see what happens in the episode about the fertility clinic when Hank Hill's narrow urethra was first diagnosed.

but Buckley _was_ a propane salesman.....he was Hank's boss.......

RJ Valentine's post, which ( due to webtv's notorious limitations, and
the fact that i'm extremely lazy ) i'm snipping, made me wonder: _are_
we jumping to conclusions regarding Nancy and John? so i watched the ep
again........and, no, we aren't.
         RJ acknowledges the truckload of innuendo about the alleged
affair, but then reminds us that Mike Judge liked to do an occasional
psych job on the viewers back in his Beavis & Butthead days, and
theorizes that he may just be messing with our heads now. of course,
it's possible.......shoot, it's a cartoon, he can give 'em all
superpowers and spandex tights if he wants ( now there's a mental
image.......).
           but i don't think that's what's going on in this
instance.......for one thing, KOTH isn't anything like B & B ( remember
how surprised we all were with the first ep? " the _B & B_ guy made
this? wow......." ). that show was aimed at an MTV audience. it was
_meant_ to be as obnoxious as possible. we were _supposed_ to hold every
character in utter contempt. so when Judge made jabs at _us_, it was
entirely in keeping with the flavor of the show, and Judge knew they
would be taken as such.
          but KOTH is a whole different animal........for one thing,
it's a primetime network show ( well, more or less ).......it's aimed
right at Mainstream America. too, it's a "realistic" cartoon.......it
depends on our actually caring about the characters, not merely finding
them amusing............ in other words, they wanna keep our goodwill.
to play us for fools by leading us ( via the testimony of our own eyes
and ears ) to believe one thing and then shouting "suckers! this is
what's _really_ goin' on!!" would not be a very good way of doing
that........i think Judge, et al, realize this.
          ok, so much for _my_ theorizin' ( shoot, i'm just a webtv
troglodyte.......what do i know, right?  ^_^ ), and on to the cold, hard
facts:

after Peggy has interrupted their "healing session" and then left, Nancy
tells John ( and i quote ) "i don't think she knows about us......all of
a suddden, i feel dirty..." and then goes off to take a shower. John
says "i'll join you," and trots off after her. now, why would they feel
so besmirched? it wasn't due to any accusations of Peggy's.........she
still had her "rose colored glasses" on. no, it was her trusting
innocence that had 'em feelin' that way. and what kinda therapist jumps
in the shower with a patient, anyway? odd, too, that their session was
accompanied by hard-drivin' rock music, while Peggy later got whale
songs...............
         later, when Hank pays his courtesy call on John, the latter is
expecting him. why would a legitimate therapist _expect_ the husband of
a patient to just show up like that, unless he knows that the husband
has good reason to be worried? he tells Hank ( again, i quote ) "i
promise you, i would never heal your wife the way i heal the wives of
others"..........he knows darn well that his therapeutic techniques are
common knowledge, and makes no attempt to hide the fact ( and no such
attempt is necessary with Dale and Joseph.........).
         then, when Peggy finally puts two and two together, she recalls
Nancy's explanation of Joseph's appearance.........Dale has a Jamaican
grandmother, she'd told her. _Nancy_ told her this.........there's no
evidence whatsoever that Dale actually _has_ a Jamaican
grandmother.........good gosh, if he was any paler, he'd be transparent!
and, in any case, do Jamaicans have long straight hair and typical
American Indian features?
        and why does Nancy act so guilty once Peggy confronts her? why
no shocked protestations of innocence? why no shock, for that matter?

all i can say is, if Judge and the gang were to play so fast and loose as to conclusively show that Nancy and John _aren't_ having an affair after all that ( not to mention all the rest of the evidence accumulated since the show began ), then they might as well give up any pretense of doing a halfway realistic show and have Beavis & Butthead move in with their cousin Boomhower! ( there _is_ a slight resemblance there..........and it would explain a few things about ol' Boomer..........but, stil, no, as promising as Beavis & Butthead & Boomhower sounds, it would be wrong..........) whew.........boy, it's nice having the opportunity to expend so much energy on a cartoon...........takes my mind offa politics for awhile.......and the global economic crisis........and........and......oh, rats, i think i need another 'toon, quick..............

                                    Mark Jones
                          Licensed Master of the Bleedin'
Obvious

"insomnia, usenet...... usenet, insomnia"....................and thus
was born a beautiful friendship............................

Mark Jones wrote:

] but Buckley _was_ a propane salesman.....he was Hank's boss.......

Yup, that he was, ever since the end of last season. So they didn't actually LIE to us when they called the next season premiere "Death of a Propane Salesman", did they. They were just checking to see if anyone was paying attention in practically every episode of the series as Hank Hill was presented as a salesman of propane and propane accessories. And don't forget Luanne, who had completed her training to be a propane salesman and showed up for her first day only to find out that the job had been given to Hank. We all knew it wasn't Chuck who was going to die.

] RJ Valentine's post, which ( due to webtv's notorious limitations, and ] the fact that i'm extremely lazy ) i'm snipping, made me wonder: _are_ ] we jumping to conclusions regarding Nancy and John? so i watched the ep ] again........and, no, we aren't. ] RJ acknowledges the truckload of innuendo about the alleged ] affair, but then reminds us that Mike Judge liked to do an occasional ] psych job on the viewers back in his Beavis & Butthead days, and ] theorizes that he may just be messing with our heads now. of course, ] it's possible.......shoot, it's a cartoon, he can give 'em all ] superpowers and spandex tights if he wants ( now there's a mental ] image.......).

So, they wouldn't, for instance, lead us to believe that Hank is going to die, then let him live. And they wouldn't lead us to believe that the show was moving it to Hollywood, then make it Tuesday instead. Right?

] but i don't think that's what's going on in this ] instance.......for one thing, KOTH isn't anything like B & B ( remember ] how surprised we all were with the first ep? " the _B & B_ guy made ] this? wow......." ). that show was aimed at an MTV audience. it was ] _meant_ to be as obnoxious as possible. we were _supposed_ to hold every ] character in utter contempt.

Every character? Have we forgotten Daria so soon?

] so when Judge made jabs at _us_, it was ] entirely in keeping with the flavor of the show, and Judge knew they ] would be taken as such.

So just a couple of really stupid characters (like Buckley and Bill) and just a couple of obnoxious characters (like Dooley and Cotton) should signal to us that they would be messing with our heads just a couple of times, eh? And you figure that Hank Hill isn't a bit like Tom Anderson, and Dooley isn't a bit like Butt-Head?

] but KOTH is a whole different animal........for one thing, ] it's a primetime network show ( well, more or less ).......it's aimed ] right at Mainstream America. too, it's a "realistic" cartoon.......it ] depends on our actually caring about the characters, not merely finding ] them amusing............ in other words, they wanna keep our goodwill.

And suggesting that lying about adultery over a period of many years is FUNNY is a way to keep the goodwill of Mainstream America? I may have missed something in tha papers lately.

] to play us for fools by leading us ( via the testimony of our own eyes ] and ears ) to believe one thing and then shouting "suckers! this is ] what's _really_ goin' on!!" would not be a very good way of doing ] that........i think Judge, et al, realize this.

Hollywood.

] ok, so much for _my_ theorizin' ( shoot, i'm just a webtv ] troglodyte.......what do i know, right? ^_^ ), and on to the cold, hard ] facts: ] ] after Peggy has interrupted their "healing session" and then left, Nancy ] tells John ( and i quote ) "i don't think she knows about us......all of ] a suddden, i feel dirty..." and then goes off to take a shower. John ] says "i'll join you,"

So far, so good. Why the quotes around healing session? We came in late on that one, but we got to see Peggy's.

] and trots off after her.

So we are led to believe that he actually joined her in the shower? Or is that direction the only exit, and he was just making a wisecrack?

] now, why would they feel ] so besmirched? it wasn't due to any accusations of Peggy's.........she ] still had her "rose colored glasses" on. no, it was her trusting ] innocence that had 'em feelin' that way.

Could be that something wasn't entirely public knowledge. Maybe the episode about the fertility clinic will bring more facts to light.

] and what kinda therapist jumps ] in the shower with a patient, anyway?

If you assume they are having an affair, jumping in the shower may be anticlimactic. But, as a matter of fact, they never showed him jumping in the shower with her, did they?

] odd, too, that their session was ] accompanied by hard-drivin' rock music, while Peggy later got whale ] songs...............

So the music leads us to conclusions? Is that the same music he plays in his car all the time? Does Peggy LIKE rock music?

] later, when Hank pays his courtesy call on John, the latter is ] expecting him. why would a legitimate therapist _expect_ the husband of ] a patient to just show up like that, unless he knows that the husband ] has good reason to be worried?

Would a legitimate therapist have an affair with a patient and keep his license? Could the scene with Peggy have made him suspect he might hear more about it?

] he tells Hank ( again, i quote ) "i ] promise you, i would never heal your wife the way i heal the wives of ] others"..........he knows darn well that his therapeutic techniques are ] common knowledge, and makes no attempt to hide the fact ( and no such ] attempt is necessary with Dale and Joseph.........).

You mean he uses whale music for Peggy and not for the wives of others?

] then, when Peggy finally puts two and two together, she recalls ] Nancy's explanation of Joseph's appearance.........Dale has a Jamaican ] grandmother, she'd told her. _Nancy_ told her this.........there's no ] evidence whatsoever that Dale actually _has_ a Jamaican ] grandmother.........good gosh, if he was any paler, he'd be transparent! ] and, in any case, do Jamaicans have long straight hair and typical ] American Indian features?

Does Joseph? Long hair would certainly be evidence that would point to something.

] and why does Nancy act so guilty once Peggy confronts her? why ] no shocked protestations of innocence? why no shock, for that matter?

I don't know. They've been friends for a long time. That is strange.

] all i can say is, if Judge and the gang were to play so fast and loose ] as to conclusively show that Nancy and John _aren't_ having an affair ] after all that ( not to mention all the rest of the evidence accumulated ] since the show began ),

What evidence? Before this episode had anyone used the word "affair"? Other people have been shown in bed together, but not John Redcorn and Nancy Gribble. There have been a lot of significant looks, but we find out only in this episode that three of the characters have long suspected an affair and two more had jumped to the conclusion shortly after moving to town. We have one person with migraine headaches who has actually sought regular treatment for them (treatment that we see demonstrated effective in the case of Peggy's tension headache). We have one child whose biological parent(s) may be different from the parents he has lived with all his life.

] then they might as well give up any pretense of ] doing a halfway realistic show and have Beavis & Butthead move in with ] their cousin Boomhower! ( there _is_ a slight resemblance ] there..........and it would explain a few things about ol' ] Boomer..........but, stil, no, as promising as Beavis & Butthead & ] Boomhower sounds, it would be wrong..........)

You mean because this is a family show? So lying about adultery is a more plausible plot item than working at a fast-food restaurant after school?

] whew.........boy, it's nice having the opportunity to expend ] so much energy on a cartoon...........takes my mind offa politics for ] awhile.......and the global economic ] crisis........and........and......oh, rats, i think i need another ] 'toon, quick..............

A cartoon you can think about is indeed refreshing. What next? _Daria_? _South Park_?

]                                     Mark Jones
]                           Licensed Master of the Bleedin'
] Obvious

This seems to be the heart of your recurring posts on this subject. Adultery is wrong and not funny, therefore no sensible comedy writers would make adultery a running joke on a TV series.

Actually, though, many people think adultery can be amusing (as long as it's happening to someone else, that is). It involves sex, which people like to joke about; and the subject makes people mildly uncomfortable, which also invites jokes. In fact, jokes about adultery have been commonplace in comic writing for centuries. (They used to call it "cuckoldry.")

I do not know why you are so obsessed with this subject, but I think that in the case of _King of the Hill_ you're grasping at straws. Unless it's all just a big troll, which is pretty likely.

[email] wrote: ] R J Valentine wrote: ]> And suggesting that lying about adultery over a period of many years is ]> FUNNY is a way to keep the goodwill of Mainstream America? I may have ]> missed something in tha papers lately. ] ] This seems to be the heart of your recurring posts on this subject. ] Adultery is wrong and not funny, therefore no sensible comedy writers ] would make adultery a running joke on a TV series.

Actually, I guess I failed to make the point clearly enough. It's about *evidence* (there _is_ none). I haven't presumed to suggest what sensible comedy writers would do to get a laugh, though the argument would have about as much merit as citing the uncomfortable look on Hank's face when he asked for John Redcorn at the door, as if nobody else had noticed his car parked out front. It's a clue, nothing more, certainly not evidence.

] Actually, though, many people think adultery can be amusing (as long as ] it's happening to someone else, that is). It involves sex, which people ] like to joke about; and the subject makes people mildly uncomfortable, ] which also invites jokes. In fact, jokes about adultery have been ] commonplace in comic writing for centuries. (They used to call it ] "cuckoldry.")

Hey, I didn't mean to spoil your fun. Laugh if you want.

] I do not know why you are so obsessed with this subject, but I think that ] in the case of _King of the Hill_ you're grasping at straws. Unless it's ] all just a big troll, which is pretty likely.

Just for the fine point, I'm one of the few that's NOT obsessed with the subject. I merely point out that there is no evidence for the subject. You think you got evidence, post it. You think you can refute any of my citations, refute away. If it's all just a big troll, the smart thing would have been to ignore that shiny hook, now, wouldn't it.

RJ Valentine wrote ( regarding the alleged hoohah ):

"Actually, I guess I failed to make the point clearly enough. It's about "evidence" ( there _is_ none )."

don't you mean "proof?" there's _tons_ of evidence, erroneous or
not.........look, it's a cartoon.....they can have everybody on the
block be abducted by those one-eyed space octopusses from the Simpsons,
if they want.....they can do _whatever_ they want. if they want to slap
our faces with something for dozens of eps and then yell "sucker!" right
in our ear, that's certainly their prerogative.....that _doesn't_ mean
that's what they're gonna do, though.
            my point was that KOTH tries to keep things fairly
realistic, and, realistically, all signs point to Nancy and John being,
well, Nancy & John. sure, the pile of evidence could turn out to be
nothing more than a mound of rotten red herrings, but Judge and the gang
would _really_ have to jump through a lotta hoops to explain it all
away.........especially Nancy's obviously guilty conscience. and even if
they _do_ pull something like that, it might not be such a great
idea...........
         actually, the whole "Hollywood / Hank Bites It" debacle
illustrates my point.......somebody ( _hopefully_ FOX execs, and not
Team KOTH ) decided to play fast and loose with us, and they reaped a
whole lotta ill will for their efforts.........we do _not_, it appears,
enjoy being played for fools, after all .........that may not be a major
factor in the show's present ratings ( koff ) "slump," but it suuuure
didn't help any!
        actually, if they _do_ come up with a surprise  regarding
L'Affaire Redcorn, i rather favor the following scenario: Peggy ( or
_somebody_ ) blurts something out about it in front of
Dale......horrified silence among the onlookers.........then Dale says
something along the lines of "oh, sure, i know all about it...he makes
her happy, and that makes me happy......waitaminnit.....you all thought
i didn't _know_? just how stupid would i have to _be_?"..........more
stunned silence from the gallery ( and some embarrassed
coughing).........finally ( that'd be Hank talking ), " well, why on
Earth havn't you  _said_  anything about it?"........."because it's
none'a yer business." ( good answer )
          now, that would:
A.   be funny
B.   be entirely in keeping with Dale's character (         he does keep
surprising us with the                    occasional glimmer of nobility
and warmth            in amongst his general skeeviness )

and

C.   fit the situation that they keep pounding us          over the head
with......._of course_ they're           havin' an affair, but.....
         surprise!.............

               that way, too, they could get some comic mileage outta
the whole thing without playin' us like saps.........maybe Dale and
Nancy wanted a child badly, but he'd been around the ol' bug spray too
long. so they convinced John to help 'em out........maybe _they_
"seduced" _him_! ( picture a flashback.....the two of 'em doin' their
best to get a horrified, straightlaced John.....shorthaired, wearing a
business shirt and tie.......to see things from their point of
view.......comedy gold, i tell ya ).........and, then, by the time she
got preggers, she realized she loved both guys.........Dale accepted it,
John gradually warmed to the whole stud image, and Nancy's felt a bit
guilty ever since.........
         now, i'm not saying i'm in favor of adultery ( just for the
record, i'm agin' it )........i'm just saying that, given what evidence
they've presented us with thus far, that scenario seems more likely to
me than for them to engage in  the kind of plot contortions it would
take to explain it all away..........or, who knows, maybe it'll all turn
out to be a dream!

( BTW, i havn't forgotten Daria.......what, i'm supposed to find her sympathetic just because she's intelligent? she's one _cold_ sister................)

Mark Jones wrote:

] RJ Valentine wrote ( regarding the alleged hoohah ): ] ] "Actually, I guess I failed to make the point clearly enough. ] It's about "evidence" ( there _is_ none )." ] ] don't you mean "proof?" there's _tons_ of evidence, erroneous or ] not.........look, it's a cartoon.....they can have everybody on the ] block be abducted by those one-eyed space octopusses from the Simpsons, ] if they want.....they can do _whatever_ they want.

Before I start, I want to mention that Mark Jones's post is a good one that engages the subject and includes coherent arguments. That said, I'd like to make a couple of fine points. I _do_ mean "evidence", rather than "proof", and I mean it in the sense that it would even be *allowed* in a court of law (nowadays) in any straightforward sense in a trial to see if Nancy Gribble and John Redcorn should be stoned to death (a very real possibility in a different time and place). In other words all the clearing of throats and shifting of eyeballs don't count for *anything*, except that a clever lawyer might get some of it through by asking a witness what impression he came away with after talking (the words themselves being inadmissible under the "hearsay" rule (presumably because the "speaker" cannot be cross-examined)). The proof itself is left to the people presenting the case, and its validity is left to the jury (in this case anyone reading this newsgroup). Now I reject completely the idea that a "proof" is possible, for the very reason you mention: it's a cartoon, and they can do anything they want.

(For instance, an early Frequently Asked Question file listed Bill Dauterive as an Army barber. At the time, the show had not mentioned his last name (much less that he is voiced by Stephen Root of _NewsRadio_ fame), or that he was in the Army at the time (though it had mentioned that he once was) or that he was a barber. In my own experience in the U. S. Army, at all the posts I have ever been assigned to (or have heard of), all the barbers have been civilian employees of a concessionaire (either of the Post Exchange or the Non-Commissioned Officers' Open Mess (the NCO Club)), and never an actual soldier. But later developments have shown that *on the show* Bill is a sergeant whose job is being a barber. I was wrong.)

All the evidence I could possibly present doesn't amount to a proof. But what we have so far are generally just "clues" that might make a detective suspicious, but might have alternative explanations. I'll grant you that it's obvious what they're hinting at, but there's mighty little actual evidence of it (in the sense of showing the two people in bed together (as they have with Boomhauer and an unidentified woman, and again with Luanne and Buckley (fully clothed, by the way)), or having one of them actually say something more definite than "us"). It's sort of like on _Beavis and Butt-Head_, where there was a lot of *talking* about "scoring", but the TV-fact is that our boys never actually "scored".

] if they want to slap ] our faces with something for dozens of eps and then yell "sucker!" right ] in our ear, that's certainly their prerogative.....that _doesn't_ mean ] that's what they're gonna do, though.

Well, of course, that's exactly what they *have* done several times (for instance, with the Hollywood move and with Hank's supposed death). They have even done us the service of stepping back a bit and have given us two episodes specifically about jumping to unwarranted conclusions with little evidence (the series premiere on suspected child abuse, and a later one about neighbors suspected of serving dog-meat at a barbecue). In both cases there was what I would consider actual "evidence": Bobby Hill did have a black eye, and the dogs were missing. But here we were in on it from the beginning (more so in the former case than the latter). They're capable of it, and they've done it. What I'm suggesting is on a bigger scale, but it's wildly more funny, if that's what they're up to.

] my point was that KOTH tries to keep things fairly ] realistic,

Oh, come ON! Let me interrupt you here to mention Bobby's "communication" with the Queen of the Fire Ants and the "fact" that John Redcorn's hair billows up eerily whenever he talks about sacred things or when Hank threatens to kick his ass. Dale hasn't done a realistic thing yet, except for the admirable way he communicates with, loves, and trusts his wife and son. But you're right that most of the situations on the show are fairly realistic, especially in comparison with those on other animated shows.

] and, realistically, all signs point to Nancy and John being, ] well, Nancy & John. sure, the pile of evidence could turn out to be ] nothing more than a mound of rotten red herrings, but Judge and the gang ] would _really_ have to jump through a lotta hoops to explain it all ] away.........especially Nancy's obviously guilty conscience. and even if ] they _do_ pull something like that, it might not be such a great ] idea...........

I have presented several alternative explanations (for instance, that Joseph might be adopted or the child of a previous marriage of either parent), and the show has also presented alternative explanations (that Nancy has migraine headaches (which anyone who knows anything about migraine headaches knows are not easily cured or even helped and can easily last for decades) and John Redcorn is the only healer who has been able to help her and they have also become good friends).

] actually, the whole "Hollywood / Hank Bites It" debacle ] illustrates my point.......somebody ( _hopefully_ FOX execs, and not ] Team KOTH ) decided to play fast and loose with us, and they reaped a ] whole lotta ill will for their efforts.........we do _not_, it appears, ] enjoy being played for fools, after all .........that may not be a major ] factor in the show's present ratings ( koff ) "slump," but it suuuure ] didn't help any!

No, they've been playing it the whole time, some so small we'd hardly notice, some big enough to notice and "resent" (but which get attention) and some so big they are hard to recognize until the other raptors slip around the side and surprise you. Mike Judge at least has a long and glorious history of poking fun at the audience, and the audience generally loves it. The present ratings problem is less because of the move itself and more because of what they're up against (this week being _Home Improvement_, _Mad about You_, _JAG_, _Nova_, and _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_). What but _King of the Hill_ could even *survive* in that slot?

]         actually, if they _do_ come up with a surprise  regarding
] L'Affaire Redcorn, i rather favor the following scenario: Peggy ( or
] _somebody_ ) blurts something out about it in front of
] Dale......horrified silence among the onlookers.........then Dale says
] something along the lines of "oh, sure, i know all about it...he makes
] her happy, and that makes me happy......waitaminnit.....you all thought
] i didn't _know_? just how stupid would i have to _be_?"..........more
] stunned silence from the gallery ( and some embarrassed
] coughing).........finally ( that'd be Hank talking ), " well, why on
] Earth havn't you  _said_  anything about it?"........."because it's
] none'a yer business." ( good answer )
]           now, that would:
] A.   be funny
] B.   be entirely in keeping with Dale's character (         he does keep
] surprising us with the                    occasional glimmer of nobility
] and warmth            in amongst his general skeeviness )
]
]                     and
]
] C.   fit the situation that they keep pounding us          over the head
] with......._of course_ they're           havin' an affair, but.....
]          surprise!.............
]
]                that way, too, they could get some comic mileage outta
] the whole thing without playin' us like saps.........

That could work. In fact that's the best scenario I've seen yet that assumes our attention hasn't been entirely misdirected. Good one.

] maybe Dale and ] Nancy wanted a child badly, but he'd been around the ol' bug spray too ] long. so they convinced John to help 'em out........maybe _they_ ] "seduced" _him_! ( picture a flashback.....the two of 'em doin' their ] best to get a horrified, straightlaced John.....shorthaired, wearing a ] business shirt and tie.......to see things from their point of ] view.......comedy gold, i tell ya ).........and, then, by the time she ] got preggers, she realized she loved both guys.........Dale accepted it, ] John gradually warmed to the whole stud image, and Nancy's felt a bit ] guilty ever since.........

That's another excellent one. It's refreshing to see a scenario that rises above the whole thing being just a cheap laugh.

Another one could be a mix-up down at the fertility clinic, which may have resulted also in the Hills' situation, but John Redcorn (in addition to his role as healer) may have felt the sacred responsibility to consult in the raising of his biological son. Bill at least volunteered to take care of Bobby if Hank died. The thought has probably crossed Mike Judge's mind more than once since the fertility-clinic episode of _Beavis and Butthead_.

] now, i'm not saying i'm in favor of adultery ( just for the ] record, i'm agin' it )........i'm just saying that, given what evidence ] they've presented us with thus far, that scenario seems more likely to ] me than for them to engage in the kind of plot contortions it would ] take to explain it all away..........

You mean it would take some creativity? But you lack confidence in the creativity of the creators of _Beavis and Butt-Head_ and _The Simpsons_?

] or, who knows, maybe it'll all turn ] out to be a dream!

Now that would disappoint me enormously. That's when I stopped watching _Dallas_. It could happen, but these people are better than that.

] ( BTW, i havn't forgotten Daria.......what, i'm supposed to find her ] sympathetic just because she's intelligent? she's one _cold_ ] sister................)

Only on _Beavis and Butt-Head_, where at least she wasn't stupid and ridiculous. On her own show she's developed some real depth.

Smartest dang ol' thing I've read in weeks. It is shiny and attention-grabbing, but I will ignore the trolling hook from now on.

Cheers,

[email] wrote:

Actually, the funny part is that Dale is so conspiracy minded, yet doesn't seem to notice the conspiracy going on right under his nose.

Matt Lupo

On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:07:05 -0400, "G. M. Lupo" wrote:

Besides the strong possibity that he knows and doesn't care, he may be displacing he paranoria. He see's clues of is wife cheating, but since he just can accept the fact that his wife is doing things behind his back, he rather think that the government is doing things behind his back.

In article , [email] (Rob Merritt) wrote:

That's really a damn good explanation for Dale's paranoia. He's projecting.

Goes to show you that the KOTH writers are deep thinkers!

Carol wrote: ] x-no-archive: yes ] ] R J Valentine wrote: ]> What did you make ]> of the fact that in flashbacks the young Bill Dauterive looks just like ]> the present-day Bobby Hill? ] ] In which episode(s) were these flashbacks? I want to go back and ] check it out.

The show about the Order of the Straight Arrow camping trip springs to mind. That was the one where I noticed that the young Hank looked nothing like Bobby Hill, but the young Bill had a strong resemblance.

R J Valentine wrote in article ...

nothing

Anybody see ads for this week's KOTH? Well it has Bobby asking his folks if he was adopted. I don't know what that was about but it's a strange way of advertising the show, especially after last week's episode. You think Mike Judge's been reading this newsgroup?

Jeff Harris wrote: ] ] ] R J Valentine wrote in article ] ... ] ] : The show about the Order of the Straight Arrow camping trip springs to ] : mind. That was the one where I noticed that the young Hank looked ] nothing ] : like Bobby Hill, but the young Bill had a strong resemblance. ] ] Anybody see ads for this week's KOTH? Well it has Bobby asking his folks ] if he was adopted. I don't know what that was about but it's a strange way ] of advertising the show, especially after last week's episode. You think ] Mike Judge's been reading this newsgroup?

I doubt it, but there have been strange hints all along. Bobby once gave a speech that mentioned how he had been conceived when Hank was away in Mexico. Dale made a remark about Joseph having been from his "seed" (and we don't know yet if Nancy is Joseph's biological mother, either). Dale once kidded about telling Joseph he had been adopted. Joseph once mentioned his dad in Bobby's presence, and Bobby asked if he meant Dale Gribble, and Joseph said yes, his dad. Bobby looks and acts like the young Bill. Neither Dooley nor Cotton have offered an opinion. Does it all tie together? Who knows. There's mighty little evidence in any direction.

Although Peggy once reminisced Hank's narrow urethra fathered her child, I wonder if instead, Bill might have been a donor for the Hills. That keeps everything consistent as Bill looked uncomfortable when Dale was suspicious of Hank's marriage. Maybe during a drunken rage, Peggy convinced Bill to donate his sperm. This show is getting better and better.

-A R J Valentine wrote in message ...

way

There's no way in that show that Bobby's real father is Bill! True, they DO look almost alike! But the truth is _Hank_ is Bobby's father! I guess the reason Bobby is short and fat is because he has some of Cotton's traits, too! That's what I think!

All this, 'Maybe-Peggy-had-an-affair-with-Bill-and-they-had-Bobby' theory is just a speculation!

Joya Nappo [email]

Love Myself, Better Than You! -Kurt Cobain! (1967-1994) (Lead singer of Nirvana!)

CMJ wrote:

] There's no way in that show that Bobby's real father is Bill! True, ] they DO look almost alike! But the truth is _Hank_ is Bobby's father! I ] guess the reason Bobby is short and fat is because he has some of Cotton's ] traits, too! That's what I think!

I agree that Hank is Bobby's father, just as Dale is Joseph's father and Kahn is Connie's father. Who donated the sperm is a separate issue. The upcoming show about the fertility clinic should clear things up. Apparently Hank was unable to get Peggy pregnant. Cotton was tall and handsome in his day, until he got his shins shot off in machine-gun fire during the war. Hank and Peggy were both very athletic in their youth.

] All this, 'Maybe-Peggy-had-an-affair-with-Bill-and-they-had-Bobby' ] theory is just a speculation!

I agree. The evidence is that Peggy doesn't show much affection for Bill, what with her remark about kissing him and her reaction to dancing with him (while John Redcorn was dancing with Nancy, and with both husbands' encouragement, though Hank didn't get a beer). Nice compound modifier.

Bobby looks like Cotton to me, plus he's a bit...odd...like Cotton is.

Jeff Harris wrote in message ...

my

However, If Dale's grandmother is Jamaican, then wouldn't Dale have darker skin too? Or did it skip Dale and show up in Joseph?

Johnny Rhyne wrote:

[I had written:]

]> We have a new explanation of the appearance of Joseph offered: Dale's ]> grandmother is Jamaican. It happens that I was born in Jamaica, as was my ]> father. My father went to Jamaica High School. I went to a different ]> high school, but I went to college in Jamaica. It's as good an ]> explanation as any I've heard suggested on this newsgroup. ] ] However, If Dale's grandmother is Jamaican, then wouldn't Dale have ] darker skin too? Or did it skip Dale and show up in Joseph?

It happens.

I have yet to have someone come up to me and say, "You look Jamaican."

What about the part when Dale told Bill about Peggy coming onto him, and Bill gives the same routine he gave Hank about Dale and his cheating wife? Something along the lines of "what peggy and Hank are a perfect couple, I had no idea"

-A

Jessi Cuellar wrote in message ... I thought the episode was great.I loved it when Peggy was about to tell all to Dale,then she sees how good he is to Joseph,and she can't do it.I really don't think that Peggy and Bill were ever "together",I think she just felt bad for Dale.

Jessi