why don't they cancel that f*(^ing King of whatever

Sheeesh

Hans

Because it goes over real well in the "Fly Over States" where networks make their money.

I understand why some people dislike King of the Hill. I happen to be a fan of the show since it's debut. For me, at least it made up for the fact that I didn't get to see Futurama. There's always next week!

In article , [email] (Wishkah875) writes:

Dear Hans,

I agree totally as I HATE that King of the whatever show. It makes no sense, characters are absolutely stupid and it is just a waste of time, but I love Futurama as it is great in every way and I try to always watch it and if I cannot watch it I tape it. King of the whatever does stink though and it always will!!

It's "Hill", go on, you can remember that! I can see why some people aren't into it...its a totally different sense of humor from Futurama/Simpsons. Yeah the morality play episodes are a bit cheesy sometimes, but I like it for its subtle humor...ie the gags arent always "punchline" kind of gags. It's little jokes that you get about a few seconds after they are said...eg Dale knocks on his wife's bedroom door, and she asks "Who is it?"...his response is "Dale Gribble". I didn't laugh at that until about 10 seconds after it happened, and it was definitely the best joke of the Fox animated evening that Sunday night!

I think some fans of failing shows feel better when they blast other more successful shows, even when their criticisms are incredibly weak. It often has nothing to do with the quality of the show itself, it's the extra non-show related stuff like millions of viewers, a cushy time slot and support from the network that make it distasteful.

On 13 Nov 2000 20:53:44 GMT, [email] (XBungle) wrote:

I totally agree.

If KOTH were on another network and ran opposite Futurama and I had to choose which one to watch, it would be Futurama.

Since they don't conflict, I watch both. I record Futurama without fail and I record KOTH most of the time. The sense of humor is very different and it's quite possible to love one show and not like the other. At the same time it is quite possible to like them both.

--Larry

I'll go all of you one better. I like Futurama, King of the Hill, The Simpsons, AND Malcolm in the Middle. (Or is that two better?)

I watch all four (or as much of the four as FOX NFL coverage will allow) then after Malcolm (and instead of X-Files) I flip over to ESPN for the rest of the 8:00 football game. My Sundays are set, from the NFL Pregame show starting at 11:00AM till the end of the late game, sometime after midnight.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:33:58 GMT, Larry F wrote:

I think KOTH sucks generally, but I like the characters and there are *some* funny moments. It's just so much work to watch it sometimes. They try to be too serious, like the last episode where John Redcorn(?) wanted to get closer to his son, that was just awkward and painful to watch, and not very funny.

-Dan Bateman

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:01:55 GMT, [email] (Dan Bateman) wrote:

I don't think this week was one of the better episodes. The awkward "family bonding" was indeed painful to watch. The best moment was Bobby's attempt to honor Native Americans by celebrating their cannibal heritage.

I definitely prefer when they avoid excessive morals and stick to making fun of rednecks. Such as any episode with Hank's father.

--Larry

The week before was not that good either, except for one line. When Bobby was imitating Hank's boss. I wish I remembered the last quote but it was something like "seeing more balls than a midget prostitute." I just about died.

The reason why I like KOTH is, for an animated series, it's very down to earth and unique. The characters are more realistic. And the show doesn't have kids who act like precocious smart-allecky worldly wisearces who act mature for their age and ready to hold their own.

At least Mike Judge redeemed himself by making that cartoon after all the controversy he was under with his previous creation, Beavis and Butt-head.

The main thing I don't like about K.O.T.H. is that it doesn't have any compelling reason to be a cartoon. It's too real. Futurama is sci-fi. Simpsons has wacky physical humor. Family Guy has a talking dog and baby. What does King of the Hill have?

The only good things about King and Malcolm I've found are that they, respectively, give me time to make dinner and clean up afterward!

...Sean.

Well, except that all the characters are animated...

Mature storylines?

This week's Malcolm was simply *hysterical*

Dave wrote in message news:[email]...

While on the surface KOTH has real life situations and MITM has cartoon style situations both work (along with really good writing) because of the contrast. In MITM they have a house full of bats and have to use all sorts of wild methods to get them out. They dress in wild outfits, have scenes from the bat's POV etc. If this was a cartoon it wouldn't work as well because real people doing cartoony things is funnier than cartoons doing them. For KOTH, most of the people seldom move. It brings a focus to the (mostly verbal) jokes. Bobby Hill is one of the most well rounded, odd, hilarious characters on TV and that could not have been achieved by using a live action family with a real kid. They would have had to have gone the "cute" route or cast a dwarf dressed as a child or something equally disturbing.

Even the Simpsons had fairly real situations when they started. I remember what a shock it was to see Homer bleed in Bart the Daredevil, but it worked. Now Homer can have a building fall on him with no effect. I think it worked better when he wasn't as invunerable as Wile E. Coyote.

Ian Boothby

Except for Pugsley on the original Addams Family (my favorite sitcom of all time!). He was the "proto Bobby Hill"....

I wish that KOTH and Futurama would swap time slots!

DGH

On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:01:06 -0600, doug holverson wrote:

You mean you liked it more than "Charles in Charge"? Yes I'm joking. Addams Family was a total classic from start to finish.

The problem with child actors is their tendency to age. Remember that Lisa Simpson had to be give anti-growth drugs. (In the "behind the laughter" episode). If MITM lasts for too long, the kids will be too old for their rolls. In My Three Sons, they eventually wrote out the oldest son and then adopted a new youngest son.

Silence! I concur. I do like KOTH, but it's not close to Futurama IMO.

--Larry

Yeah, Dewey on MiTM is already looking a lot older. Did he have a growth spurt or something?

I like KoTH too, but not as much as Futurama, Simpsons, and MiTM. I totally agree with the previous poster who said there is really no reason for KoTH to be a cartoon. Just like there often wasn't a reason for Star Trek: The Next Generation to be in space!

-Dan Bateman

And this necessitates animation how? Animation is a tool for conveying the abstract, or for showing situations impossible or difficult in live action. I've yet to see a King of the Hill episode that justifies its medium.

...Sean.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:54:40 GMT, [email] (Stalky T Fish) wrote:

The main reason that KOTH is animated is because Mike Judge does it. Animation is his medium, the show is his, so it's animated.

--Larry

Stalky T Fish wrote:

You forgot one other thing about Animation, It's cheaper to produce then live action.

Since when? Common mistake, but not true.

Pete

petben wrote:

Yea? Say they want to have the Hill's visit Paris. Or they want more character's then they have contracted full time talents. Animation's special overhead is much cheaper. You never have to shoot on location. and with good voice talents a small group of meagerly paid people playing a large cast of characters. And special effects shots are free. You honestly think KOTH costs the same per-episode over a full season as MITM?

Mike, besides your obviously flawed "common knowledge", do you have any other evidence of the costs of making a TV series? If you look at all of the cost involved in making an animated show, it is more expensive, not cheaper. The first issue is that it take lots of manpower just to make 5 minutes of animation.

...You know what? I don't have the time or inclination to explain the ins and outs of animation. I've worked in animation and live action. Trust me on this.

"petben" wrote in message news:B649B104.2F10%[email]...

me

Are you an accountant or a manager? Otherwise anything you think you know is second hand.

in article [email], LooseChanj at [email] wrote on 11/28/00 8:49 PM:

I have worked as a production manager in both. But thanks for playing.

"petben" wrote in message news:B64A7D27.2F57%[email]...

Which explains your obnoxiousness. Now fuck off.

in article 3a2571c6$[email], LooseChanj at [email] wrote on 11/29/00 1:11 PM:

Now Loose, there was no reason for that! I have tried very hard to stay away from any personal attacks. Let's just not go there okay?

"petben" wrote in message news:B64AB9AF.2F81%[email]...

?!?!? You've done nothing but demean and insult anyone you talk to. *plonk*

in article 3a258293$[email], LooseChanj at [email] wrote on 11/29/00 2:23 PM:

I think you've mixed me up with someone else.

Sorry I don't agree with you, but I don't see an insult by me anywhere in this thread.

I think so too.

You're definitely pro-Gore, but I can't recall you being demeaning in your posts.

in article [email], Dave at [email] wrote on 11/30/00 5:09 AM:

Thanks Dave, I make no excuses for being pro-Gore, but I have always tried to be fair and listen to others. I may not always succeed, but I do try.

Does that include some of the Saturday morning, bottom of the barrel, limited animation (e.g.: Hanna-Barbera in the '70s, Translux in the '60s, DIC about anytime)?

DGH

doug holverson wrote:

And don't forget Clutch Cargo!!

Those a particularly cheap forms of animation, which you can see in the quality of movement. I would say that those shows are cheaper overall.

petben wrote:

Well thanks for helping the group here then. Yea their's nothing like an expert that doesn't say anything.

I really don't think the "group" is that concerned with the outcome of this discussion.

Think of it this way: Every shot is a special effect.

What about when the stars of a live action show get a big head and start demanding big $$ per show? Like Friends or Cheers. An animated show's budget should be a lot more stable over time.

-Dan Bateman

in article [email], Dan Bateman at [email] wrote on 11/29/00 7:56 AM:

Or The Simpsons.

Stalky T Fish wrote in message news:AQVU5.108232$[email]...

The justification for me is that real actors can't be that still. In a sit-com actors throw in facial and physical business. The humor in King of the Hill is 90% character reactions. But the reactions are small. When someone gasps it's a big deal. The animation brings a tight focus to the jokes in a way that live action can't without the actors looking like statues.

Animation isn't a tool for conveying the abstract or showing situations impossible for live actors. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. In this case it's an effective way of getting this type of humor across.

Ian Boothby

In article , [email] (Stalky T Fish) writes:

It may not necessitate animation, but neither does it disallow it. In other words, if Mike Judge wants to do KOTH as a cartoon, he can do it as a cartoon. End of story.

mike judge rulez. he is totally hilarious. unlike that creep byron allen. he was to be the ugliest guy on the planet. mike should make up a cartoon about byron. only he's probably think that was a compliment. ugly + stupid + azz kizzer + worst host ever = byron allen.

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:16:52 GMT, wrote:

No, what they should do is give up on KOTH and start making Beavis and Butthead again! That would rule, huh huh huh!

"jean yates" wrote in message news:w0PP5.30237$[email]...

sense,

love

It's definately jumped the shark into a silly morality play every week. It used to be an outstanding show, but that didn't last long.

LooseChanj wrote:

It's because they don't have enough Dale, Bill, and Bumhour{sic?} B-plots any more. Those kept me watching through the "Wholesome" stuff. Now I just shut it off.

"Mike Zaite" wrote in message news:[email]...

any

shut it

*nod* Now it's all Bobby coming of age crap. Bleh. At least we can be pretty sure Fry'll never grow up.

That would be 'Boomhauer' (although I find the concept of a bum hour rather interesting).

Same here.

Yeah, it would be kind of like the old family hour, except for bums.

Rick Alger
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B-plots

Never underestimate the network that put the names Darva and Rick into the lexicon: http://ttrax.vitts.net/morphomatic/bumhour.jpg

Andrew

"Arnoud W. Morsink" wrote in message news:8uqihu$2qj4$[email]...

B-plots

just