The States

If most people on this NG are from U.S.A, then can I, (as a simple englishman!), what do you call you're country, U.S.A, The States, America?

On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:18:46 -0000, "Charlie" wrote:

America, The States. or The U.S. are all acceptable.

Of course, if you saw the old Simpsons Halloween special, you'd know that in order to make Bart's test correct, our country is now known as "Bonerland" it was discovered by "Some Guy in 1942".

If you are a Firesign fan, then it's "Vespucciland".

The Statue of Liberty now has the inscription: "Under new management, Welcome to Microsoft"

--Larry

[email] writes:

Some Canadians don't care for the U.S. being called 'America' since Canada is also part of North America. But then, some Canadians don't particularly want to be identified as Americans in the first place.

On 04 Nov 1999 07:30:15 GMT, [email] (Neil Robertson) wrote:

To be completely accurate, America (North, South and Central) consists of over 20 countries and over 40 languages. Likewise, "The United States" is technically ambiguous since Mexico is "The United States of Mexico". Outside of Spanish class, I have never heard Mexico referred to that way.

If you say "I'm going to visit America" any where in the world, most people will understand that to mean U.S.A. "It's not smart or correct, but it's one of the things that makes us what we are."

--Larry

Careful, it's completely rational posts like this that balloon into huge OT flamewars.

Careful nothing. The Euros started it, now lets see 'em finish it, for once.

Bard wrote:

huge OT

Uh-oh! I feel like having a deja-v�.

Pfffft. Eggheads. Whatta they know?

Well, I for one know how to use a kill file.

Congrats on your induction into the Kill File Hall Of Lame.

--Larry

Pleasure to be here. Is Pete Rose in, or he is banned for life here too?

And what may I ask is a "kill file"?

When someone uses a newsgroup filter to separate and *kill* particular messages and people.

Who care about a bunch of pseudo communist hosers anyway?

Once Quebec leaves the federation, the rest of the provinces & territories will just become the 52nd through 63rd states anyway....

If you really want to piss off a canadian (and that can be hard to do) just show them a dollar bill and say "George talks to everybody"

Thus it begins.

spaceman spiff wrote in message news:[email]...

Canada is

want

'pulsion')

On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:45:19 -0700, "grosse" wrote:

A quick search on this flame baiting troll will show you where he's coming from.

And a quick check of my killfilter will show you where he's going.

Congrats to Calvine, the newest inductee to my "kill file hall of lame".

--Larry

Just trying to keep things interesting until new shows come on. Also, if you noticed, I don't start these threads, I do however have a strong sense of americanism.

Not gonna touch all the flames and baiting, but I can't help myself here:

"Most Americans do respect other cultures?"

Bwa-hahahaha!

Most Americans couldn't find Canada on a map [I've got a cite for that around here somewhere...], let alone Pakistan, Indonesia, North Korea or any of those "other cultures" that could very well instigate the next world war.

Respect other cultures?

Have you ever been in "another culture" and watched American tourists? It's embarassing.

Hell, most Americans don't even respect other American regionalisms. Try defending drug use in the South... or stock car racing in San Francisco.

Gimme a break.

Anyway -- new episode Sunday, right??

Jim

Where the hell do you live that you cant find Canada on a map? C'mon give SOME of US a little credit. Your painting ALL Americans as bigotted morons. You know this is not true.

I was raised to believe in: "All men are created EQUAL" not All Americans are created equal.

You give a certain amount of respect to EVERYBODY, until they show you either: 1] Why they dont deserve it. or 2] Why they deserve more. [Or does that make too much sense for you?]

Yeah, and take a fish out of water and he'll flop around "embarassing" himself. And that would certainly be an embarassment to his little fish buddies.

Stock car racing has enough fans in California to warrant spending "X" million dollars to build the California Speedway. I am sure they would NOT have built it if they thought noone would show up for races. As far as defending drug use in the south . . . Try defending drug use anywhere and let me know how you do.

Give ME a break!

Yup, I can hardly wait

In article , [email] wrote:

And _I_ wrote... [mustn't drop attribution, there, "spamless," if that is your real name!]:

--> Seems most time I give people credit (at least in the, "give [some generalize group] credit!"), I wind up getting defaulted on, and being unable to collect.

--> Unfortunately for all of us, that was written with the intent that the emphasis be:

"All MEN are created equal."

Fortunately, for all of us, some of us are trying very hard to overcome that handicap.

--> wow! There's an unneccessary ad hominem. But, this is usenet, right?

You can wander around giving people credit. To me, there's a societal problem: "Generalized Sense of Grandiose Entitlement!" -- people _expect_ that respec.

I'd rather live in a world where people feel they have to _earn_ respect. I certainly live my life trying to _earn_ respect, rather than expect it, or give it away a priori.

--> .... ummmm....

.... ummm...

Nope. Can't find the connection there.

I'll assume you mixed your metaphors?

--> Didn't say, "California." Said, "San Francisco."

Seems your awfully over-generalizing / insensitive to San Francisco culture, there.

--> Sure. In fact, I (and many, many, many others) have voted for it, and campaigned for it, and believe firmly in *not* criminalizing it.

No problem defending it in *my* neck of the woods: Are you insensitive to my culture?

--> I've had mine. Sure seems you need one, tho.

Have a nice weekend...

Jim

On Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:40:52 -0800, [email] (Jim Pearson) wrote:

Huh?

It sounds like your talking about "credit" like you might get from a loan company. [Maybe just a weak metaphor for respect] Either way, if you wind up getting "defaulted" on that often, your not getting enough "history" on those you choose to credit.

Perhaps 200-plus years ago that WAS true. And I'm not trying to say that women and men are treated exactly the same. However, in the eyes of the LAW they are. Or have they drafted a new constitution for women that I'm not aware of? But, the original context of the comment was dealing with other cultures, not other sexes.

You can include me in that "some of us", too. I'm all for sexual equality, as well as racial equality.

Perhaps I mis-spoke. What I mean to say is; Before you know someone, you cant determine what degree of your respect they are entitled to. But you interact with them "politely" until you CAN determine if they deserve any of your respect. In other words, Yes, people DO have to EARN respect. It's not automatic. But, you should not automatically "Dis-respect" others either. I was thinking of this "politeness" as a low level of respect. A "starting point", if you will.

ummmm....OK, but I dont get it.

True, in a generalized sense, but I dont think MOST people are like that, at all.

I think we do, for the most part. It may still be more of a "goal", than reality, but things seem to be heading in the right direction, albeit at a snails pace.

As do I, fellow traveller.

I admit, this was a bad example. Truth be known, I've never been in another culture, without BEING an American tourist. But, I think it goes both ways. Cultural diversity is one reason people travel to other countries in the first place. This being the case, it only seems normal that there would be instances [due to "cultural differences"] that could be considered embarassing. *[If you were trying to say that SOME Americans have a "holier than thou" attitude, I would agree. But EVERY country has SOME idiotic representatives]

Sorry, my mistake. [?]

I have never lived in "Frisco", [I know how that pisses you guys off] but I would say "ignorant of", instead of "insensitive to".

As do I. The problem here is that you are REEFERing to REEFER. And, although the law considers marijuana a "drug", I really dont classify it with "drugs" ie...cocaine, meth, etc...

Not at all. In fact, I'm part of that same culture. You just confused "pot", with "drugs". I guess maybe we both over generalized it, but we're on the same side of the fence on this one.

We've both had our "breaks". I guess it's back to work

Right back at ya, friend.

On Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:43:31 -0800, [email] (Jim Pearson) wrote:

I'm not going to respond to you at all, but:

There has never in the history of the world been a culture that 100% respected every aspect of every other culture. To that I will add they I have indeed spent a great deal of time studying the history and culture of my own and other people, within my country and outside it.

Given this it is fair to understand that respect is a relative thing and I was speaking relative to the post to which I was replying. The U.S. does indeed have serious problems in cultural tolerance. We are working hard to improve this, as we have been for a long time.

Perhaps I associate with a better class of people, however the kind of intolerance seen here recently is certainly not typical of the US as I have seen it.

The subject of geography is certainly not a strong one for the US. However, many of the studies you are referring to had serious problems with the methodology. When I was in high school they presented us with one standardized achievement test after another. Since they were not being used for future placement, just for information gathering, by the third test we began filling in the little bubbles in patterns, not even reading the questions.

The most extreme results were used by politicians to further their person ambitions with little regard for the real information being presented.

It is! This is what is called "The Ugly American". Unfortunately, the Americans who travel to other countries are not a fair representation of the US as a whole. In Europe, where a day's drive can easily cover five countries. Contact with other nationalities is relatively inexpensive. On the other hand, in America, there are only two countries you can drive to directly, Canada and Mexico. Alberta, Canada is at least a three day drive or an expensive airline ticket away.

All this leads to the fact that many of the Americans who travel to Europe are wealthy. Once overseas, they expect everything to be done their way. They are jerks when they are here, and they take that with them. This is most unfortunate for the rest of us. When we save for years to afford a week's vacation in Europe, we find that most of the people there are sick of seeing us.

In all the times I've been to S.F. I have never met anyone who thought Stock car racing should be illegal. Though I never saw a stock car race there either.

NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws has a number of chapters throughout the south. The criminalization of hemp was a huge financial blow to the south where most of America's hemp was grown from colonial times till the end of WWII (AKA: The Great Patriotic War and The Unnecessary War). The opinions there are definitely shifting as the real costs to the region are becoming my widely known.

Someone asked what I think was a reasonable question. I gave reasonable answer. As I have mentioned I live a long way from Canada, and I don't deal with many Canadians on a face to face basis. So a Canadian posted a likewise reasonable correction to my first answer, and I explained my point. That took a few minutes, communicated some, hopefully, useful information to all sides. Naturally I have spent ten fold the time defending myself from having my every word scrutinized beyond any reasonable sense of context. I recommend that people look for points of agreement in addition to points of contention.

At least your points, though I am clearly disagreeing with some of them, were thought provoking and substantive.

I will end by agreeing that Americans (or should I call us United Statesians??) would benefit from being more open to other cultures. Our knowledge of other countries is too limited, as a whole, to understand them.

The internet provides the greatest potential to further these ends, but it is up to us to make it do so.

Sure thing, take the next twenty minutes off and get some coffee.

Quit getting off topic . . .

--Larry

In article , [email] (Larry F) wrote:

--> Wow! A a.t.futurama response with multisyllabic words! Dammit! Wish I had checked earlier in the day... as it is, I'll have to give only a brief response... sorry.

--> Nope. And the argument can be very well made that it behooves cultures (at whatever magnitude) not to respect others. But that's a different topic.

--> Don't know about the "all" working hard to improve this, unfortunately, but it is heartening to see that some are.

--> If "here" is a.t.futurama, certainly. But, I certainly hope that _no_ one believes usenet is a microcosm of *anything*. We could get into a whole discussion of usenet's (and the web's, for that matter) varying levels of representativeness of which groups...

But it's the weekend, nearly.

--> We'll spare our other viewers from a discussion of psychometric methodology. Suffice it to say, I heartily occur. I was being flip, or, rather, with hyperbole, to make a point.

Had no idea anyone would actually respond somewhat thoughtfully.

--> Nor, for that matter, should we get into a discussion of analysis and representation of data. Suffice it to say, again, I concur.

*see* we have *plenty* in common. : )

--> Your error here is in inferring that I was limiting the discussion to "other countries."

Look at Midwestern tourists in NYC. Or, for that matter, Diablo Valley tourists in downtown SF.

Very few Americans (and here I limit the discussion to Americans only because I don't presume to speak for other cultures), it seems, have respect for anything but themselves.

--> And in Northern California, for example, a day's drive can cover, off-hand, I'd say a dozen different cultures. But does that instill respect?

I'd have to say, no.

--> Wow. In all the times you've been to SF, then, you haven't spoken with an environmentally-minded pseudo-liberal. Must not be truly partaking of (and respecting?) the culture.

--> Welcome to participating in newsgroups. ; ) But think of how jealous all those lurkers are!

--> Now you're talking nonsense!

... well, thank you. Agreeing and being polite? Are you new at this, or do you enjoy tilting at cultural windmills?

I, for one, applaud your effort.

--> Umm, so, we're in agreement again. Why the contention in the opening of your post?

--> Bwa-hahahah! No. Sorry. At the risk of starting a whole other thread, the Internet provides very _little_ cultural interaction for any group other than -Internet-Participants-.

Those same rich pains in the asses you pointed out were the majority of European tourists... same problem with the internet.

I will certainly agree that the _potential_ is there... and it's getting better... but there's a looooooonnnnngggg way to go.

--> I think too much coffee is the problem.

That, and typing 65+ wpm.

Sorry! How about: "And don't get me started on those ___________!"

You fill in the blank.

On second thought-- t'hell with all of it... I'm going _outside_ -- it's been a long day.

Jim

You tell him he's an embarassment because he didn't capitalize 'Americanism' and you used bad grammer to do it.

Interesting....

I hope you do realize that respect is a two way street....

I think he's just sick of being kicked in the shins by people who aren't willing to respect him, or where he is from....

Pot kettle black.

And those that we don't, we nuke.

I always find it funny that the folks who clamor for Canada to fold into the United States are often politically conservative, and they don't seem to stop and think about what a death blow their favorite laws would be served when more than twenty "pseudo communist hoser" senators and a slew of new representatives joined Congress.

I particularly think it's funny that this particular clamorer thinks that the United States has fifty-one states.

So, hey, new Futurama on Sunday! Can't wait for the newsgroup to have something to talk about each week.

--brian

Cut the "favorite laws" crap, point-dexter. Everyone knows you're talking about the fat welfare checks unemployed Canucks rely on for hockey tickets, Eskimo whores and cheap beer.

would be served when more than twenty "pseudo communist hoser"

Aren't my powers of prediction amazing?

To be fair, predicting that an idiot will flame Usenet is something of a no-brainer, dontchathink?

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Don't forget we Canadians also rely on and benefit from BC Bud... and please... Eskimos are make believe like leprichauns and Cigarette pack warnings (Cigarettes are addictive? no way...) *lights a Camel* hmmm..... classy...

Seriously though... how many times are we gonna argue Canada vs US and all its variations? Such a waste of time and resources. Enough already.

Benderr

Oh, I'm not clamoring for it.... But I do a lot of work in Canada, and for most of the canadians I've talked to, they expect they will join the US.

That's because within the next 15-20 years, Puerto Rico will most likely be made into the fifty-first state. Number one, a large number of it's residents require those nice healthy welfare checks, number two, the politiicans in Washington are getting tired of sending those nice healthy welfare checks.

Yeah. F Quebec. Goddam Frogs shouldn't be livin' in 12 feet of snow all year round anyway.

F the Canadians. What have they ever done? Nothing for nobody.

I hate it when people start reffering to whole countries as one person. Why don't we work our way up to continents? F you, Europe! Alright, now on to hemispheres... F you, Southern Hemisphere! Alright, now we can be one planet!

F you, Earth!!

i never understood this argument by some Canadians....

Canada is canada (canadians) the US is the united states of america (americans) Mexico is the Estados Unidos Mexicanos (mexicans)

Canadians aren't americans because it's not "canada of america" and mexico isn't "united mexican states of america"

we just call ourselves "americans" because that's the name of our country.

Canadians and mexicans can call themselves "americans" if they tack America onto their countries' last names

[email] www.personal.psu.edu/mjo139

We call it "home". You should call it "Our best friend when Germany decides to invade Europe again".

no, i'm betting on some French scientists cloning that half pint Napoleon and France invading the rest of Europe.

then the US will get involved and england will have to come save our ass.

Moe: Oho, an English boy, huh? You know, we saved your ass in World War II. Hugh: Yeah, well, we saved _your_ arse in World War III. Moe: [conciliatory] That's true.

If the French ever perfect the science of cloning (and I stress the word "if"), I doubt somehow they'd try to clone that belligerent little Corsican: he was such always such a pain in the ass, invading other people all the time, always bragging about what a military genius he was - who needs that. Instead they'd probably clone a couple million Marie Antoinette's, and therefore increase the poularity and reputation of the french scientific community worldwide.

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche."

i don't think that times a million would increase any country's popularity.