Did anyone notice that Kristin Gore (I am assuming this is Al's daughter) was one of the staff writers on this episode. Is there anything the Gores cannot do?!? :-)
Stephen
2 gores involved in this episode?
Nov 14, 2002, 12:56 AM ET31 posts by 15 posters
31 posts
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:56:40 GMT, "Stephen" wrote:
Dance
--Larry
in article [email], Larry at [email] wrote on 11/13/02 10:33 PM:
Win Florida
I stand corrected... :-)
Hurts to think about it.
Stephen
"petben" wrote in message news:B9F91D14.6A2E%[email]...
Oh, but he technically did. If you go by "majority of actual votes". Oh well.
Correction -- what they can't do is to get the Supreme Court stuffed with friendly judges who short-circuit the constitution for them.
And according to the New York Times -- and we all know what a bastion of libritality *they* are -- if ANY of the proposed recounts had been allowed Gore would have gotten Florida.
Then maybe the President wouldn't have spent the most important twenty minutes of his administration talking to a kindergarden class.
Bitterness? Yes. Alas, the death of the world's greatest democracy.
-- L.Y.
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, petben wrote:
In article , Luxury Yacht wrote:
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, get over it. Bush? Gore? Both worthless, ideological shitsacks along with their mentally ill degenerate followers. Anyone crying for one over the other is operaitng on a zero intellectual level. Try thinking independently for once and forget about some crap politician.
On Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:44:12 -0800, Lyapunov spewed forth:
Marry me.
On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Lyapunov wrote:
No, the point is not who won, it's *how* they won. And if anyone is operating on a zero intellectual level, it's people like you who equate the presidential election with a football game. Having four judges decide the election is contrary to the form of government we are supposed to have. Doesn't that mean anything to you? Oh, yeah, I forgot -- you prefer oh-so-clever rants to a real discussion. Never mind.
-- L.Y.
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:29:04 -0600, Luxury Yacht wrote:
Exactly. I'd rather lose a fair election than win an unfair one.
Whether it was by conspiracy, fraud or incompetence doesn't really matter. At the end, was the election process a fair and even representation of the will of the people? Unless that can be answered yes without qualifications, then the election process needs to be fixed and 2002 showed that it was not. I will not forget, "let it go" or stop talking about it until we have honest properly run elections.
--Larry
On or about Tue, 24 Dec 2002 04:05:47 GMT, Larry made the sensational claim that:
No, ITYM "perfect" elections. I think we all know how likely those are, even in the best of intended circumstances. What most Gore fans fail to *ever* mention (all the while spounting "will of the people" and citing the nat'l popular vote as evidence "Gore won"), is that Gore's winning margin in the nat'l pop. vote was even closer than Bush's Florida "win", at least statiscally. So it's no more accurate to say Gore won than it is to say Bush won Fla. By the book, according to the rules, Bush won the election. Having said that, in that highly unusual set of circumstances, I think the Fla legislature should have just got together when the shit hit the fan and tossed out the vote, and just sent 12 electors for Bush, 12 for Gore, and one uncommited who could for either, or neither. Of course, being as we've got a republican majority here, no way in hell they would have done that. ;-) But the presidential election is peculiar in that the "will of the people" doesn't have to be considered at all.
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:32:52 GMT, LooseChanj wrote:
I never bring up the popular vote at all. I understand the electorial process just fine and I know that this is not the first time a candidate has lost a presidential election with more votes.
It's the "irregularities" that occurred in Florida, under the watch of one candidate's brother etc. If the entire situation were reversed, do you think that the Republicans would have let it go?
Other than second rate attempt to fix some bad voting machines, nothing has been done to fix the problem.
Election officials gave preferential treatment to one party well before the election. There was a very aggressive purge of the voter rolls which denied thousands of innocent people the right to vote. These purges were not done in time for any appeals and they were only done in counties leaning toward one candidate. These each caused a large shift in votes. To date there have been no charges. No one has lost their jobs. That is not acceptable, no matter what party benefits.
There's a list of election irregularities form both sides, though the party that happened to be in power did have considerably more and influenced far more votes. We are not going to change the last election, but we must change the next one.
--Larry
On or about Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:52:48 GMT, Larry made the sensational claim that:
That's my point, or part of it. You can't claim Gore got more votes.
Nixon did, in '60. Florida was not unique in having "irregularities". There were several other states in which the Dems tried to blow the ball into the hole.
Damn shame that. But hey, this is the MTV age, if they couldn't do it within weeks after the election, no ones gonna remember. And they didn't. Exhibit A: this recent election.
Why does everyone act like Florida was known to be the lynchpin *before* the election ever started? You're talking about SOP when it comes to the two big parties in this country. That the election came down to such a narrow margin in *one* state that would decide the whole thing was just pure chance.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 02:27:11 GMT, LooseChanj wrote:
Nixon's campaign was too dirty to stand an investigation. He had little choice but let Kennedy get elected by a bunch of dead people.
We knew the election would be close and Florida was one of the larger states that was very close.
No one knew for certain that it would come down to Florida's vote. They knew it could be very close in Florida and they were just making it a little more certain.
Here in AZ, we knew that Bush was going to win by a wide margin, so there was no need for any "extra" assurance. Jeb wanted to make sure his brother got Florida. He did not know ahead of time that the election would hinge on it. There were so many problems, that All of them couldn't be innocent mistakes. Some of them probably were, but not all. Which ones were intentional and which were isolated actions by local officials and when was someone higher up involved?? There needs to be in investigation and there hasn't been.
Forgetting who won and lost, tens of thousands of innocent people lost their voting rights due to an "error". They did not have enough time to get their rights back until the election was over. How can you not be outraged?
--Larry
because . . . ? Gore got 500,000 more votes than Bush. He lost due to the way the electoral system is set up.
JQM
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 18:01:02 +0000 (UTC), "James Morrissey" wrote:
Yes, we are all in agreement there.
--Larry
On or about Wed, 25 Dec 2002 18:01:02 +0000 (UTC), James Morrissey made the sensational claim that:
Which is just a tad narrower a margin (percentage-wise) than Bush won Florida with.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:13:31 GMT, LooseChanj wrote:
The percentage doesn't really matter that much. If every state Bush won in he won by only one vote and Bush got 0 votes in every state Gore won, then the popular vote would have been a landslide for Gore and Bush would still take the Whitehouse.
While the electorial college has it's problems, I don't think a straight popular vote would be any better. A candidate could win a landslide in the a few big states (California, New York, Texas, Florida, Illinois etc) and ignore the rest of the country. With the electorial college, once you have enough support to win a state, it pays to campaign in smaller states.
There is only one solution that will incorporate the benefits of both ideas. A candidate must win both the Electorial college and the popular vote to be declared the winner. In the even of a split, which has happened some 16 times to date, the winner would be decided by a "your momma's so fat" competition.
--Larry
On or about Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:20:26 GMT, Larry made the sensational claim that:
Oh, but it does. In both cases, Fla and the nat'l pop. vote. Both (and I expect, others as well) were within the margin of error. That was the problem. *Especially* considering the sort of shenanigans expected of either side. We can try to narrow that down as much as possible, but since humans aren't perfect, we'll never get perfect accuracy. And when we don't, I like the yo momma idea. But who'll judge? In all seriousness, the idea of a post popular/electoral mis-match debate followed by an election sounds appealing, but do you want to send it back to the people? You'd likely end up with nearly identical numbers. You could send it to congress, or the supreme court possibly, but I think we see the problem there. I'd say the solution most in line with the original intent of the electoral college would be to send it back *there*, for a second vote (without the candidate pledges) after each candidate has stated his case. *sigh* Yeah, like who cares anymore?
In the dim and distant past on Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:52:48 GMT, it was rumoured that Larry spake thus on the subject of "Re: 2 gores involved in this episode?" in alt.tv.futurama:
Exactly.
http://www.observer.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,409137,00.html
And the media too: Fox called Florida as "Bush" even though Gore was ahead in the vote count then. But what else would you expect when the source of that victory announcement was a Bush family member...
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:29:04 -0600, Luxury Yacht spewed forth:
So what are you gonna do, travel back in time ? That's what you'd have to do to do anything about it at this point. Spit out the sour grapes and get on with it.
Clever or not, it's the smartest Bush v Gore post I've seen on usenet yet.
=v= "Staff writer" means she's worked on many episodes.
=v= For some reason, Fry and Leela's "robot dancing" (from "Fear of a Bot Planet" [1ACV05]) comes to mind. <_Jym_>
Get elected
Shiborugu
anyone see the Gores on 20/20? The even did a bit piece on his appearance on last Sunday's Futurama!
too cool.. I hope he does become president and introduces a bill creating funding for more Futurama! Bush hates those Sunday cartoons after what the Simpsons did to his dad and what KOTH did to him.
Stephen
"Stephen" wrote in message news:rWGA9.22513$nB.2807@sccrnsc03...
The Rumsfeld-Bush plan to employ murder and terrorism for political, financial and ideological gain does have historical roots (besides al-Qaida, the Stern Gang, the SA, the SS, the KGB, the IRA, the UDF, Eta, Hamas, Shining Path and countless other upholders of Bushian morality, decency and freedom). We refer of course to Operations Northwoods, oft mentioned in these pages: the plan that America's top military brass presented to President John Kennedy in 1963, calling for a phony terrorist campaign -- complete with bombings, hijackings, plane crashes and dead Americans -- to provide "justification" for an invasion of Cuba, the mafia/corporate fiefdom that had recently been lost to Castro.
Rumsfeld has resurrected Northwoods, but on a far grander scale, with resources at his disposal undreamed of by those brass of yore, with no counterbalancing global rival to restrain him -- and with an ignorant, corrupt president who has shown himself all too eager to embrace any means whatsoever that will augment the wealth and power of his own narrow, undemocratic, elitist clique. Dissent is not tolerated.
It looks like the purpose of Homeland Security Spies is to stifle dissent, and the current murder of Senator Paul Wellstone is a lesson in how to stifle dissent.
The people loved Wellstone and they wanted to keep his voice alive.
The murder of Paul Wellstone backfired because his death caused people to examine his legacy. A reporter for the St. Paul Pioneer Press said they had never had so many people covering a death. Not even that of Hubert H Humphrey. He touched so many people. Even his political opponents in the Senate openly praised his passion and his character. He is remembered as being a good man.
The impact he had on people around the country and especially Minnesota was a guarantee that the people would elect Walter Mondale, to carry forward Paul Wellstone's worthy legacy. Even the Secretary General of the U.N. issued a statement, about the loss that the death of Senator Paul Wellstone entailed. That is not very common.
The only thing that can alleviate the grief that the loss of a beloved politician produces, is the assurance that his death was not in vain and that his legacy will not extinguish. That is what caused the elation over the emergence of Senator Walter Mondale. If Walter Mondale was granted the opportunity to be Paul Wellstone's voice, the Senator from Minnesota would receive the political icon status he deserved, and that is the information that every exit poll in the country, was supposed to bury.
One might say, paraphrasing Oscar Wilde, that to lose one election, despite the exit polls is a misfortune, but to lose two the same way, is positively suspicious. Karl Rove may be all strategy, but this selection business is beginning to be a bore.
If we know who voted for who and why, we know which votes were NOT COUNTED:
Election 2002: Exit Polls _________________________
Question: Why did Minnesotans vote in record numbers?
They wanted to honor the memory of Paul Wellstone.
Question: Why did Coleman win?
Because the ballots were counted in the middle of the night, by hand [one for you, two for me] when everybody was either yawning or sleeping.
By the way, the enthusiasm to elect Mondale in memory of Wellstone exceeded any 'stupid whiners' backlask by 10-1.
Is CNN trying to manufacture the news? ______________________________________
"The crews on the ground found two large sections of plane. The tail section was intact. The weather DID NOT have anything to do with the crash," said the on the scene reporter."
Wolf Blitzer tried to correct her.
He said, "The plane was flying into the storm of freezing rain, right?"
"There is no evidence that weather had anything to do with the crash."
The on-the-scene reporter stuck to her guns.
And after Wellstone was murdered and his murder was covered up by the false claim that the weather was responsible, Walter Mondale was slated to foil the original plot, until the politics of election 2000 were hastily exported.
Clearly, Senator Walter Mondale would be representing Minnesota today, and just one of the many tactics that were deployed in Florida, were more than adequate to steal the election. Remember the butterfly ballot? This is what reuters had to say about that:
"Palm Beach County's controversial "butterfly" ballots cost then vice-president Al Gore about 6,600 votes in the country, more than enough to have given him the presidential election, a newspaper reported yesterday. A review of 19,125 discarded ballots on which a voter punched holes for more than one candidate found that about 6,600 Beach voters invalidated their ballots by punching holes for Mr. Gore and another candidate." Reuters
Welcome to 1984. Congressman Bob Barr is finally correct, we are living George Orwell's 1984, and nobody has ever called Bob Barr a Liberal.
The fact that Wellstone was murdered cannot be covered up. It can certainly be denied by the politically motivated wackos who post messages on the Internet, 24/7, in order to discredit the obvious. They typically post crap like, Wellstone conspiracy theories are "the work of people with a grade-school knowledge of airplanes and little understanding of the dynamics of crashes." But we know who the people who post this crap are.
The Bush administration has mobilized ring-knocking masters of deceit like Poindexter, and the plans of these serial criminals are clearly more scandalous than Iran-contra. The crimes of politically motivated wackos are serial in nature, and the only thing that you can count on is the fact that they routinely abuse their power. Poindexter currently heads the "Information Awareness Office" in the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology and is now realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop on every public and private act of every American. And despite Poindexter's Ministry of Propaganda, we can safely conclude that the murder of Paul Wellstone was not "the work of people with a grade-school knowledge of airplanes and little understanding of the dynamics of crashes." Maybe Poindexter is in a position to put faces on the people who are responsible for the murder of Senator Paul Wellstone.
On 15 Nov 2002 23:42:13 -0800, [email] (True Blue) spewed forth:
D00D NO WAY I'VE BEEN A T00L OF THA MACHINE AND UNDER THE HEAVY JACKBOOTZ OF THE MAN (TV) FOR TOO LONG THANK U FOR OPENING MY EYES AND BTW, 100 FOOT TALL RALPH NADER VS 100 MINIATURE HARRY BROWNES WHO WOULD WIN PEACE OUT
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:58:49 GMT, Rev. Bleech_ wrote:
Does that include a 401 K? I'm still just a tool of the Amish. I can't wait to graduate to machines.
I've lost count of all the things I've protested or demonstrated against. The last time I had to deal with the police was when I blew out a tire and the Highway Patrol stopped and held a flashlight for me.
If our system were perfect, I wouldn't be protesting. If it were *that* bad, I'd be in jail.
I couldn't comment directly on the original post since it never propagated to my news server. That's typical of messages posted on Google. Ahem, I mean CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!
No matter what, Nader would claim that he won. Remember, the environment is almost as important and Ralph Nader himself.
--Larry
In article , True Blue wrote:
You ideologues really want to help the world? Collectively throw yourselves under the next bus or truck you see after shoving your vacuumheaded conspiracy theories up your asses. There is nothing more useless in a democracy than Party followers (on either side of the political fence). I wish you'd all just fucking kill yourselves already.
"Lyapunov" wrote in message news:221220022248237804%[email]...
It's always great to hear from the cool-headed voice of reason.
On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Lyapunov wrote:
Dude, you've got some real anger issues to work through. Can't you see that it's really not about politics -- it's that you never got that puppy for Christmas?
-- L.Y.
Yes it is Al's daughter. And she is an excellent writer according to my son, another Emmy award winning staff writer who is currently unemployed, but happy.
Glenn
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:56:40 GMT, "Stephen" wrote: