I just thought this might intrest you guys, I was in WHSmith (British Newsagent) and they had "Buy one get one free" Friends videos. Being series 7, I thought I'd have a quick look, but they were all out of stock...interesting I thought...so I went to ask an assitant when they'd be getting more, and he said they've been selling like hot cakes and that non were available till the end of January. It just proves that Friends is as popular as ever!
Owen
They have series 7 in Woolworths for �4.99 each, try there
Sharon
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:hiqY7.35450$[email]...
series
be
Sharon Wrote:
Well I wasn't looking for the actual vids, but thanks anyway. Were there many left when you were there?
Owen
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:o%ZY7.50252$[email]...
They had lots of copies but that was on Monday, hope they have some left this Saturday when I venture into town.
Sharon
"~Sh@z~" wrote in message news:YW3Z7.51925$[email]...
U can probably get them online if there aint any.
Owen
I had a question:
If you aren't born in England but you grow up there from lets say the age of 8 or 10, do you still get the accent? (been wondering this for the longest time)
I love English accents and had to use one in my high school play, Me and My Girl.
Sofya
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:Os4Z7.52135$[email]...
there
Sofya wrote in message news:a15rrd$ps2$[email]...
of
It probably depends on the person. My friend Leo lived in California until she was seven and has lived in England ever since (she's 18 now). To me she sounds American but to her American friends she sounds English. You probably pick it up a little bit but it won't change entirely without voice training or something (a la CCA).
sofya wrote:
of
My
I think a lot depends on your friends and parents. I moved from Cardiff to a very Welsh part of wales, but when I speak English, I have no welsh accent, even though I speak welsh with most of my friends. Neither of my parents have accents, so I suppose it's down to who you speak with the most.
Owen
Is Welsh a type of English?
Sofya
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:%kDZ7.58696$[email]...
age
longest
to
most.
the
and
news:a182hm$3tb$[email]...
A friend of mine was reading over my shoulder and remarked "Is Italian a type of Latin." I assume this means, "no, not really." She is shaking her head (correct) and shrugging a little.
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:xMPZ7.182015$[email]...
the
for
Cardiff
welsh
my
her
You're going to have to be patient with me. I have not read the full length history and information on Great Britain so stop acting like the whole world knows this stuff. Welsh, how many people even heard of this "language" or whatever this is?
Can you please explain? I didn't understand your answer through your mockery.
Thanks.
Sofya
"Sofya" wrote in message news:a1aek3$b15$[email]...
Me
of
the
length
world
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was mocking. In fact, I was quoting my friend only because I didn't know the answer myself. In fact, since she is not here now, I am at a loss to explain in any detail. She did tell me last night that Welsh, much like Latin, is still a known language, but it isn't widely used by ordinary people anymore. She mentioned something about Gaelic that I didn't understand. I'm not sure if it was related. So, I will leave any further explanation to someone who might actually know, but I too am interested in the information.
No hard feelings I hope.
DB
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:OT9_7.190411$[email]...
say
this
play,
a
shaking
or
did
Its alright. Its just people also seem to think everyone else knows what they know. We all hold different information. Thanks for the info. Check what Gaynor Thomas posted...he has other information if you're interested.
Sofya
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:OT9_7.190411$[email]...
She did
Well...while this may have been true earlier this century it isn't true anymore. Welsh has had a huge revival and is now taught in all schools in Wales until age 16, appears on all our roadsigns, most documents have to be available in both Welsh and English and I even live next door to a comprehensive school where all the lessons are taught through the medium of Welsh. I belong to a choir where people talk in Welsh so much I am constantly out of my depth. And I live in South Wales - in North Wales, Welsh is more widely spoken. There is a Welsh language radio station. We even have a Welsh language TV station. (The programmes are rubbish, but we have one ;-) )
That said, however, English is still the dominant language.
Gaynor
"Gaynor Thomas" wrote in message news:Aim_7.6597$[email]...
language,
be
of
I'll have to let my friend know also. Thanks for the info.
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:DJv_7.195338$[email]...
Thanks for taking an interest! We Welsh are not particularly well-known in world terms. I have an American friend who still insists on referring to me as "from England", despite my most patient attempts to explain that the UK has 4 countries which make up the whole, of which England is only one!!It doesn't bother me so much personally, although lots of Welsh people get a bit upset at being referred to as "English" ;-)
By the way, we also have our own Welsh costume which is worn on March 1st (St.David's Day - our patron saint) - primary school kids dress up in it and sing songs in Welsh in school! We also wear our national emblems of Wales on that day - the leek and the daffodil.
I think I have now put Wales on the map! ;-)
Gaynor
"Gaynor Thomas" wrote in message news:BiL_7.10266$[email]...
me
and
on
St. David eh? Now you've really got my attention. :-)
Wales is a fantastic country! I go there every three years with guides :) go Wales!!! Language is slightly confusering though
"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...
go
Thanks for the ringing endorsement!
Bring your umbrella though, it can be quite wet here, even (especially?!) in the summer. ;-)
Gaynor
:)
They always make sure we're covered in waterproofs anyway! we get so hot even when it is raining, we take them off. We prefere to get wet than to be rooasted in water proofs. And they don't work anyway! When we do the gorge walk they seem to take pleasure in throwing us in the gorge right at the end. It's sopping wet! I love the guides holidays!
"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...
even
rooasted
Gore-tex is a wonderful thing :-) ...although quite expensive, I highly recommend it!!!
:-) Sounds like fun!
I used to be a Guide when I was younger...and since I lived in Wales (still do) we gained a lot of experience at camping in the rain. The only time I went camping outside of Wales was when we went to Russia ...unfortunately it rained there too...almost the whole three weeks!
Gaynor
Does it keep you from baking too?
there was one day when Helen (One of the rangers) got out of our en suite shower (Yeah we had an en suite shower!!!). She came in the room with just a towel around her. the curtains were open, so was the window. A man walked past. she failed to notice, everyone else did, and decided not to say anything. Then five minutes later Helen's still wearing the towel, and the guy walks past again. She notices, and say "Hi" as if it's the most normal thing in the world. About two minutes later she realised that she was standing in her towel with the curtains and window open while there were strange men walking past! We went out with smiles on our faces for the rest of the day! Except Helen, she had a scowl on her face for the rest of the day.
you went camping for three weeks??? The most I ever go for is a weekend! In Wales we stay in a youth hostel. *sniff* Camping in the rain's fun. except when there's thunder and lightning. (Im scared of bright lights and loud noises)
"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...
Yes, it is wonderful, breatheable material. Not like that old yellow plastic stuff I used to wear back in the eighties. That used to be like my own personal portable sauna.
Blimey, what sort of luxury camping do they have these days in the Guides?! We used to have old green patrol tents that leaked in the rain (and as I mentioned, it *always* rained) and maybe a pre-dug hole in the ground for a toilet, if we were lucky! ;-)
...unfortunately it
In
Normally we used to go for weekends, but since we were going all the way to Russia for an International camp we decided a weekend wouldn't be long enough ;-). I must say I am more of a youth hosteller these days though. It's drier ;-)
Well, it was fun, I seem to recall but almost everything used to get wet when we had flooding "emergencies" in the tent at 2.30am. I think it might be better these days what with built in groundsheets and all. The wonders of modern technology!
Ah, memory lane! Thanks for rekindling my memories!
Gaynor
"Gaynor Thomas" wrote in message news:9T4%7.4293$[email]...
plastic
suite
Guides?!
a
Russia
to
of
Are "the Guides" people who are "guides" or is it a place because thats what it sounds like in: "what sort of luxury camping do they have these days in the Guides?"
Where in Russia? I was born in Minsk, Belarussia and I visited Moscow when I was young.
Sofya
"Sofya" wrote in message news:a1io0b$dol$[email]...
<snip>
what
in
No, in America, Guides are called "Girl Scouts". I'm sure you know all about them!
I
We camped near Lake Ladoga as I recall (north of St.Petersberg). We also stayed with some Moscow Guides for a week and had a look around Moscow. That was back in 1994. We had a great time in Russia.
Gaynor
Okay I'm wearing thast next time!
Ah! this wasn't any normal camp! If it was we'd have to use chemical toilets and none of us would wash. The jpoys of camping and being stinky and nobody caring :) This camp was in a youth hostel! We didn't really camp out at all. We had a camp fire on the beach though. and we sang taps as the sun set. It was amazing! :)
Youth hostelling's cool. I've never been on an international camp beofre. you;re so lucky!
We still have to put our ground sheets in the old fashioned way. We never get floods. We camp at the top of a hill :) Although it has it's dry advantages, for our luggage that is, we still get wet having rolled half way down the hill in the middle of the night. That's always fun :)
You're very welcome!
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Grin. When everybody stinks, nobody stinks? :)
Tennant
Exatectly. I was the only one who brushed my teeth last year. but I was also the only one not to have a hot wash.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Eeshk, you can always taste the inside of your own mouth.
Ah.
Tennant
Don't look at me! My mouth was minty fresh! ha!
Okay so my body did stink but eh well...
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Mmmm... yes! :)
But you were warm, that was the main thing, yes?
Tennant
And you would know would you?
If my scanner was working I would send you a lovely picture of me in shorts and t-shirt, scarf, gloves and wooly hate playing in the sand pit.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
I hope so!
Lol, how old were you?
Tennant
Sorry, one of my alter ego's was taking my place there <hits Phoenix with a stick> Yes, I was the only one with fresh breath. Every day!
This was last september, so I was still 17. (I will be 18 on the 25th! hint hint)
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Lovely!
So what were you playing in the sand pit?
Okay, I'll make a note of that...
Tennant
:)
we were making a sandcastle and putting action man on top.
good.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Any particular reason? ;)
Okay.
Tennant
*Remembers* It wasn't an action man... That's it! It was a pirate with one eye and a parrot on his shoulder! I think. I can't remember. Anyway, the theme for the camp was treasure island, so we all had pirate names (I think mine was drunk sod, but they lost my badge) and we had pirate themed activities, such as find the flag, and the pirate ship challange. (We had to figure out how to bring the grass sledges back up the hill) So we had a sand pit and made a sand castle and put the pirate on top. Then we buried him.
Only 8 more days to go!!!!!!!! *Jumps around the room flinging herself off the padded walls*
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Lol! What had you been drinking?
ROTFL! That's why they're padded!
Tennant
errr... orange squash I think. They don't allow alcohol on site :(
yeah oh yeah! you should try it some time! you can't bounce off hard walls... :(
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Oh, well in that case I'd better not ask why they called you "drunk sod".
You can if you're wearing padded clothing...
Tennant
I chose that nickname myself, cause I was taking herbal medicine at the time, and I found out that it was mostly alcohol, which was why I couldn't walk straight in the mornings
I don't have none. That's why they let me go to the Mental house once a week. he he he
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Oh. And you know what "sod" means?
Very wise (I'm sure Mari won't mind me saying that to you).
Oh, by the way, *respect* for the help you're giving her. n/k
Tennant
yup. That's why I chose it :)
er... why would she mind?
<~~~Slightly bemused. I'm sorry?
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Lol
She wouldn't.
Oh. Don't you know? It's something to do with the 25th... :)
Tennant
I thought it was appropriate..
Then what do you mean?
You mean staying for the weekend? <~~~Jumps up and down again I'm gonna be 18 in 5 days!!!!!!!!!!! <~~~Bounces off the walls.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Appropriate? Are you *sure* you know what "sod" means?
It's one of her things.
No, I'm talking about you going out.
Yay! But it's nothing to do with your birthday.
Tennant
I think so. I wanted to be a drunken old shit. but they wouldn't let me have that. so I said drunk sod.
Oh right
?
What the fuck then?
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
"Sod" is much worse than "shit", it's short for sodomite.
?
To the post office.
It's the day you go to the post office.
Tennant
Which is what?
What the hell has the post office got to do with anything?
So, going to the post office is helping Mari...? What???
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
A man who has anal sex with other men.
It might still be a criminal act in Britain & the USA, I don't know.
Unless you're pulling my leg, you're making me worried.
I'll email you.
Tennant
Really? Even better then! (I want to be reincarnated as a gay man....)
er... why would it be a criminal act? How else do they expect gay couples to make love?
It's okay. I understand now :)
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Just as long as you know what it means. :)
I'm no expert on this at all, you'll have to ask the morality groups.
Phew! :)
Tennant
I'm all happy now :)
I have to research it anyway for my RS coursework. Thanks for the lead!
Stupid misunderstandings...
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Yay. :)
YW - is that Religious Studies?
Yeah.
Tennant
yeah. and the only one I'm passing at the mo.
do you think it's time to change the subject line?
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Well done!
Grin.
Tennant
well the philosophy part anyway.
I can see this thread dying down soon... oh! could you repost your review for 803 cause I was replying to it and the system crashed... again.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Or as it's known in America, sorcery.
Sure thing, sweetie. :)
Tennant
yeah, I never understood that. There is a big difference between philosophy and socery. they have nothing to do with each other!
thank you!
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Tell that to the American distributors of the Harry Potter film.
YSW
Tennant
Right... <~~~Takes Pat and Mark to USA and together they find the distributers. Mark can't really do anything so he stays behind and shouts a lot. Pat and Seran draw up the differences between philosophers and sorcerers on the blackboard they brought with them.
Now I gotta hope my computer loves me enough to stay online.
[email] (Seran Perry) wrote in message news:...
Sorry to intrude on a private conversation. Unfortunately, the problem with your questions is that the "they" that would have a problem with this don't expect gay couples to have sex at all. In fact "they" would probably prefer there were no gays at all.
I'm probably not in a position to chime in on "sod," since it is not a term used commonly in the US, but I think sodomite probably has a broader meaning, that being a term for anyone, male or female, who engages in sodomy. The so-called sodomy laws in some of the less progessive states criminalize any kind of "unnatural" sex act. They would define an unnatural sex act as anything other than traditional male-female intercourse, so would include anal and oral sex as "unnatural." There are even some states where it is illegal for a married heterosexual couple to engage in consensual oral sex in the provacy of thier own homes. As a practical matter "sodomy laws" are not ordinarily enforced, but they still exist. Most states actually don't have them at all anymore. Sodomy laws date back to the earliest times in Americal history, certainly long before the "states" actually existed.
Scott
That's cool
Poncy ignorant bastards... Remember kids, don't knock it til you've tried it ;)
t'ain't no such thing as unnatural. Just ignorance I think.
They
At least they're not enfoced. It was a happy day (for me) when the gay age of consent was lowered to 16 :) Don't know about anyone else
In article , [email] (Scott Letteney) wrote:
No worries, you're welcome, Scott.
Indeed.
Ah, thanks for all that.
Haven't I heard that some states have plans to make erections illegal?
Tennant
what would be the goood in that???????
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Tell that to the red-necks & bible-thumpers.
Tennant
It's just that then they can't have children to pass their ways onto. Actually that may not be a bad idea. Then mayvbe we'll get more tolerance in this world...
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
These people always exempt themselves.
We'd all be a lot better off if everybody just played golf or went to the garden centre on Sundays, as happens in England.
Tennant
Exactly. Stupid people.
Yeah but is England such a tolerant country? I'm taking Jenny, Paul, Tom, Lucy and Their partners with me to live on the moon. It's a nicer place.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
It was on the news that the Bush Administration is now installing curtains (at $8000 each) over naked 19th century marble statues in Washington, beginning with the Justice Department.
Yep, such a nice atmosphere.
Well done, chaps! Has it made a difference?
Me too.
Tennant
Please tell me you're kidding.
You're sarcasm is too much.
Obviously not. They still think they're right.
Seems to be doing okay so far. I've got it on notepad.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Nope. Republican politicians don't like being photographed with an arse or pair of breasts, even though the statues are 10ft above their heads.
That wasn't sarcasm, it was a pun!
No surprise there, then.
Good good good.
Tennant
Well that's just sad.
... Same difference!
ummmm.
Now the mouse is having issues. I swear my computer has PMT.
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
I'm afraid so.
Not really, a pun is kinder. :)
Have you tried cleaning its ball with soap & warm water?
Tennant
Bring back Al Gore! Well, just bring him in!
If you say so.
Don't know about you but I don't fancy getting electricuted when I put the ball back in. Does it actualy work?
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Yeah!
Well, just trust that I'm always kind to you.
You wouldn't get electrocuted since the voltage is low, but for the sake of the mouse you should dry the ball first. If the fault is a dirty ball then it will cure the problem, and if it isn't then it won't hurt.
Tennant
I'll try it out then
grrrrrr
Okay. We had a debate about that in lit and deb today. They were saying that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. They lost. Next week we're arguing that pop stars should be lined up and shot. I'm speaking for the motion. My ex-boyfriend/my best friends boyfriend is speaking for the motion. Neither of us can figure out why he would do that.
I'll try it out then. saves us getting a new mouse
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Oh. What was the lowest form of wit, then?
You are both speaking *for*?
You probably have some gunge on the rollers. If this has been allowed to build up too much, it can actually look like a little rubber ring that is meant to be there. Gently cut through it with a plastic knife, and try to peel it off in a few goes, but don't scratch & scrape to make dust.
Tennant
That wasn't the issue. As far as we're concerned Sarcasm isn't the lowest form of sarcasm. but we did agree that puns, and homophobic/rascist/sexist jokes were lower.
<~~~rereads. Oh! Sorry, I'm speaking for, he's speaking against. Why he's defending pop stars I have NO idea!
well we've only had the mouse for nine months. Will it build up that much al;ready?
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
That's a bit hard on puns.
Is that pop stars, who can be quite good, or "Pop Stars", which is COS?
It depends on how mucky you are <ducks> and how often you launder your mouse mat.
Tennant
<SNIP
to
is
much
Sorry to interrupt, one thing, never buy a cheap mouse, get a Microsoft one as they're generally the best. Mine cost �40 and it's been excellent, there's nothing more annoying than a sticky mouse. I tend to clean mine out every month, but my house is quite dusty. Also try and use the mousmats with the clear hard covring on them, not the floppy softer ones.
Owen
inturrupt all you want my dear :)
one thing, never buy a cheap mouse, get a Microsoft one
Well I've just cleaned it, and the damn thing's moving! My mouse works!!!!!!!!!! well it was... Goddamnit! But I heed your advice mate. ]
<~~~shouts away from the computer Dad! We need a new mouse!!!!!
In my experience, all mouse mats are useless. I have to use the underside most of the time.
Tennant, could you repost the original for this cause my computer crashed as I was reading it
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
Sure - but all it was, is this....
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:
That's a bit hard on puns.
Is that pop stars, who can be quite good, or "Pop Stars", which is COS?
It depends on how mucky you are <ducks> and how often you launder your mouse mat.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
There are fancy mats you can buy which do a good job - they are a bit harder than the regular mats - and though they cost a bit more they are cheaper than replacing the mouse.
However, I had some freebie mats from a grateful customer, one of which I kept to use as a coffee mug mat. When an unfortunate little accident befell my mouse mat (you don't want to know) I had to use the coffee mug mat. After scrubbing the dreadful thing for twenty minutes, I managed to get two years' worth of coffee stains off it, and discovered that I had just created the perfect mouse mat...
Tennant
"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...
Did you know that you can go for International Selection in the Guides and end up going abroad for international camps/holidays? As far as I know, the way you get selected to go, at least in Wales, is as follows:
1. Go for a selection camping weekend (under canvas) - usually held in your district around September ish 2. If you show good camping skills etc. you may be selected to go on to round 2. 3. If selected, go to a residential weekend in your regional centre (ours is Broneirion in mid Wales) 4. Wait until February or March. 5. Get a phonecall asking if you want to go to Russia or other places!! You generally end up going not with Guides from your district, but with Guides you met in the regional centre residential weekend. So you get to make lots of new friends.
If you're interested, have a word with your company leader. If she doesn't know, your district should have an International Adviser who can help you. I didn't even know about International selection until I was 17(!) otherwise I would have tried years before! I think you might have to be 14 to go up for selection, but I'm not sure about that. It was a fantastic experience.
You might want to try
http://www.guides.org.uk/international/camps.asp
if you're interested.
Gaynor
Very interested. Problem is, I found out about this about September time through rangers, but by then they said it would be too late for me to apply because I'm going to America in August. *WAAAAAAH*
<snip>
:-)
I did a quick search - for more information you could try:
http://www.sucs.swan.ac.uk/~rhys/stdavid.html
Incidentally, St David is called Dewi Sant in Welsh - "Dewi" being the Welsh translation of "David"!
Gaynor
what comp do u live next 2? kelly Gaynor Thomas wrote in message news:Aim_7.6597$[email]...
language,
be
of
"christine.richards" wrote in message news:9oD08.15996$[email]...
Ysgol Gyfun Gwyr in Swansea
I went to Ysgol Gyfun Cymer Rhondda in South Wales :) Nice to know I'm not the only Welsh person around!
Angharad
Angharad wrote:
I'm still in a Welsh school!
Owen
"Sofya" wrote in message news:a182hm$3tb$[email]...
No. Welsh is a separate language and is on the Celtic Branch of Indo-European languages, along with Breton, Cornish, Gaelic and a few others.
English is on the Germanic branch.
Welsh has different grammar and for the most part, very different vocabulary from English. In fact, I personally think French (Italic language branch) is closer to English than Welsh is.
If you're interested, have a look at the language tree at:
http://newark.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/language.html
Gaynor
"Gaynor Thomas" wrote in message news:fjZZ7.1461$[email]...
vocabulary
is
Thank you Gaynor.
Sofya
P.S: Disregard my last post to David Buehrle.
No, Wales is part of the UK, so is England, so is Scotland and Northern Ireland. Welsh is the national language of Wales and it is the oldest language in Europe.
Owen
In article , "Owen Shiers" wrote:
What about the Basque language?
Tennant
Ok the 2nd oldest!
Owen
In article , "Owen Shiers" wrote:
Okay. :)
Tennant
I'll check up on it.
Owen
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:zd__7.2811$[email]...
I'm sorry i don't understand which line is what you posted, because there are ">" these things on all of them except for your name. I've been noticing this a lot.
Sofya
Sofya wrote:
sure,
Well the >'s represent each reply, for example
It's suppose to help! Sorry!
Owen
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:U_0%7.3441$[email]...
there
Whoa i didn't know that! What happens on the 4th post? I always press Enter twice after the last ">" to show what i'm writing.
Sofya
Enter
Well it just caries on so technically, it could get to
But usually I cut that bit out after about 4 >'s.
Owen
"Owen Shiers" wrote in message news:zd__7.2811$[email]...
I guess it is hard to say how "old" languages are since they are changing all the time. What I mean is, is Modern Welsh same language as old Welsh? This goes for any other language too. From that point of view, it may be impossible to say whether Basque or Welsh is older.
Linguistics is an interesting topic! ;-)
Gaynor
Gaynor wrote:
sure,
Well Modern Welsh is far different from the Welsh that Aneirin used in his poem about "Gatraith", which is one of the earliest written recordings of Welsh. I'm pretty sure that there's conclusive proof of the age of the language though, which I guess stems from Gaelic, which is very similar.
Owen