821 - TOW the Cooking Class [Spoilers]

H e r e ' s

t h e

s p o i l e r s p a c e

I can't believe not even Johnson Walker (Anonymous) has said anything yet about last night's episode. So, here I go: We had three subplots with two couplings we don't see that often: Joey with Monica and Chandler with Phoebe, who was just a supporting act once again. Lisa Kudrow must feel like those millions of Euros earning soccer players who only play the final ten minutes of a game, every weekend. I was right! As I predicted, there had to be someone getting a new job this season, although Chandler might not have gotten it in the end. That leaves the R&R kiss to happen. We learn that Monica in difference to her husband knows how she appears to strangers, which made the plot much more enjoyable, and that she's a better cook than Joey's an actor. How come she didn't even taste Joey's cookies? And of course there was an important plot involving Ross and Rachel, from which we learn, that out of the two right now only Rachel, though hormone driven, is seriously considering their re-union. [I really didn't know which tense to choose in the previous sentence.] When I read the filming report -- which was by accident, because it was titled something with 819 -- I thought when Rachel is teasing Ross in the beginning of the episode she already was serious about it, I believe many die-hard R&R-fans still do, but IMHO JA played it to look real. Oh, J&R-fans, there's still hope as they haven't talked to each other this episode neither.

To sum it up, a rather good episode with few, but the right ;-), emotional moments.

Christoph

Missed casting opportunity: Adam Arkin as the food critic, or maybe the person teaching the cooking class.

"Charles Blair" wrote in message news:ZoEA8.4294$[email]...

I thought the food critic was cast very well. (He's an acquaintance of mine!)

I see where you're going with that idea though--pretty clever. ;-)

In article , Christoph =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E4per?= writes:

I don't know....

I realize there was a slight twist to it, but I kept thinking, "Here we go AGAIN!"

Rachel is needy. Ross gets lucky. Rachel gets pissed. Ross heels.

Can't we at least transpose this to a minor key or something?

I count it as an *extremely* small improvement that at least this time, Rachel is honest with Ross about this syndrome of hers, instead of secretly whining to Phoebe about it while playing mum around him.

In fact, *were it not for the back-history*, this thing could have even worked as a pregnancy-inspired episode. And I can believe it is pregnancy-inspired, except that Rachel has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong pattern of this kind of attitude.

Of course, the scene hints at marriage possibilities, and Rachel seems to be considering it, her denials notwithstanding, which begs the question:

Why is it you "still don't want to date" him, but you do want him as your ... what? Manservant? Slave? Husband? what?

"JamesS1889" wrote in message news:[email]...

Rachel

whining to

I totally agree with you James, I liked the episode, but mainly because of how Chandler tried so hard not to be Chandler during the interview and all the scenes that involved Phoebe this week were rather good IMO, i.e. "we need to call the church elders" or the rehearsed interview (I hope we will get to see more of that in an extended version of this ep). The Joey and Monica story was nice and entertaining as far as it went, but didn't "deserve" to be the title story :-) Anyway, the Ross and Rachel story really annoyed me, as the writers did their best to show how dysfunctional these two can be, but also how they can't seem to be without one another or rather see the other one being with someone else. Just think about Rachel's comments in the baby store, we all know she doesn't care about Ross's profession, but here it seemed like her lack of respect for Ross's profession added up to a lack of respect for Ross.

worked

pregnancy-inspired,

kind

Having seen 821 I can't believe I was naive enough to think that any further development in the R&R relation after 818 would not involve the return of "jealous bitch Rachel", although this time it's more like "mother to be who wont let Ross get anywhere where she cant control him Rachel"

be

Obviously something else will happen involving J&R, if not in the last 3 episodes of S8, then it'll be in the beginning of S9. If this relation comes back to the main stage, then they'll have done two 180 degree turns in their story telling over a very few episodes, which just cant be good for the show. This doesnt seem well thought out at all anymore.

But as you said, we'll just have to wait and see...

Andre

In article , "Andr� Knoche" writes:

Actually, there was some kind of interruption in my apartment while this episode was playing, so I didn't totally follow these other sub-plots. The Chandler one ended too predictably for my tastes, and when Monica and Joey were in that cooking classroom I had no clue as to how that came to be, so I was kind of lost.

Oh, I think she's taking baby steps (no pun intended) in the right direction, I'm just hesitant to applaud at this point. A case can be made that she knows her attitude is wrong and would not pull something like this if she weren't totally desparate. And in a way, the fact that the object of her desparation is Ross is kind of significant.

I am waiting to see whether it will turn out to be anything other than a co-dependency.

JamesS1889 :

Maybe this time it ends well. ;) Finally. As far as we can tell from this episode Ross' intention to comfort Rachel wasn't love this time. He showed [in continuation of TOW Rachel's Date] that he's given up the hope for a happy, easy reunion, while Rachel [in the same line] hasn't.

Well, here we differ. I think that's quite an improvement in their strange relationship: JIT honesty. The authors did a good job in keeping it down by Ross not giving this favor out of love but out of responsibility.

It worked for me, that's all I'm asking for. :-P Would any non-pregnant have said "horny bitch" out loud?

[to Rachel:]

Father of your child?

Christoph

In article , Christoph =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E4per?= writes:

Maybe so. Maybe that is another difference.

Well, she *was* honest at least once before - to Phoebe, that is. And Phoebe was game enough to question her logic, to which question Rachel had no answer. And then there was the problem of Jill, in which yet again she acknowledged - not to Ross - there might be some questionable logic motivating her actions.

I was struggling with the best word to use. It *is* an improvement worth mentioning, in my book. I just don't know how enthusiastic I want to get about it. After all, this "honesty" could conceivably be written off as pregnancy-inspired as well.

IMO, she has merely said out loud what she has been saying since TOW The List by her actions. I don't recall Ross' exact reaction in 821, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't shocked by the admission.

See, that's what I mean ;-)

No question, his response of "Responsibility" touched her deeply.

But so did the T-shirt back in season 3, not to mention his sacrificing his TV spot to take her to the hospital.

Looking down the road, I don't yet see where this time will be different. And no, I *don't* mean from a romantic perspective, though that can still be part of the mix. I mean from a perspective of mutual respect and kindness and maturity

Christoph P�per :

I forgot to ask: What exactly is a bizmo/bismo, doodies (synonym for poo?) and Mahi-Mahi (a fish dish?)? What was the name of Chandler's [fictional?] uncle? Didn't Ross & Rachel get a diaper whatever and a crip in 820 already? Won't Monica miss the bowl she forgot in the classroom and who'll eat the rest of the Bouillabaisse? If Mahi-Mahi is indeed some kind of fish like my Google research implies, are there only fish dishes served at Alessandro's? Then why doesn't she stink?

Christoph

"Christoph P�per" wrote in message news:ab0rpq$ss2$[email]...

I think the word was abysmal, which is basically a posh word for horrible

yes

no idea

Badda, as in Badda Bing. Have you never seen some kind of Late Night Talkshow? Think of the drums after the host delivered a joke!

Andre

Andr� Knoche :

Ah, that makes sense. His gesture confused me, I thought of handcuffs not of drums. Au�erdem gibts sowas albernes bei Harald Schmidt nicht, bin mal auf die Synchro, vor allem von duty/doodie und "do do", gespannt.

Christoph

"Christoph P�per" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:ab10p9$ume$[email]...

If you dont speak German you dont need to read on :-)

eeh? Wie hei�t dieser blonde Zwerg bei Harald Schmidt noch? Auf jeden Fall macht die Band dasselbe wie alle anderen Late Night Talkshow Bands auch, einige machen's halt mehr (Jay Leno), andere weniger (Conan O'Brien). Au�erdem bedient sich Schmidt sehr ausgiebig bei Letterman und Conan, soweit ich das mitbekomme. Ich hab heute einen Teil von 601 in der Synchro gesehen... Wenn ich dar�ber nachdenke, dass ich Joeys Stimme fr�her eigentlich gar nicht mal so schlimm fand... Aber mal ernsthaft, wie k�nnen solche Menschen als Synchronsprecher Geld verdienen?

Andr�

Andr� Knoche :

[Badda Bing]

Helmut Zerlett.

In der HSS spielt die Band eigentlich nur zwischendurch, kein Tusch nach einem Gag. Zumindest ist es mir noch nie bewusst aufgefallen.

Einige Elemente sind �hnlich, aber das gilt wohl f�r alle Late-Night-Talkshows �ber Landes- und Sendergrenzen hinweg. Im Gegensatz zur Anfangszeit ist Schmidt inzwischen aber recht eigenst�nding. So etwas wie seine "Postcomedy" in der ersten Jahresh�lfte 2001, k�nnten sich US-Talker sicher nicht leisten.

Fr�her haben mich eher die vergurkten Wortspiele und �berhaupt die Sprache genervt, inzwischen f�llt mir das bei den nervigen Sprechern kaum noch auf.

Christoph

"Christoph P�per" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:ab19e6$11pn$[email]...

Also ich hab keine Ahnung was Postcomedy ist und gucke Conan O'Brien aufgrund der mangelnden Empfangbarkeit im Fernsehen nur noch �u�erst selten (es macht einfach keinen Spa� jede Woche 150MB Video Files runterzuladen), ich wei� nur das dort sehr viele Dinge gemacht werden, die man nicht in einer gew�hnlichen US Talkshow erwarten w�rde.

Andr�

Andr� Knoche :

Bspw. das ernsthafte Nachspielen des Literarischen Quartetts, das Simulieren einer Radiosendung im Fernsehen bei Minimalbeleuchtung, im Jaguar den K�lner Ring entlang heizen oder das Vorlesen s�mtlicher Beatles-Songs, deutschen St�dte mit mehr als 50000 Einwohnern etc. Zuletzt wurden auch mal live Fischst�bchen gebraten.

Ist Jahre her, dass ich's zuletzt gesehen habe.

Christoph

"Christoph P�per" wrote in message news:ab10p9$ume$[email]...

Indeed, they are the same thing.

<< Badda, as in Badda Bing. Have you never seen >>some kind of Late Night

To add a little trivia: The little "badda-bing" the drummer does is called a "rim shot."

One of my many gigs in life was being a comedy writer.

<<rim shot>>

Lynne

"Christoph P�per" wrote in message news:ab0rpq$ss2$[email]...

Abysmal: (adj) extreme, unfathomable, or immeasurable. It carries a negative conotation. Duty(2): (n) "Doing one's daily duty", or making a poop. Mahi-Mahi: (n) Dolphin (the fish, not the mammal.) Thus the use of Mahi-Mahi is becoming more common to prevent comfusion.

I think they just got a bassonette at the shower. Joey found a crib for Rachel a few eps ago, but it had a rat in it. So, they got rid of it.

She certainly will miss it, but I think she got too involved in being at the head of the class to remember it.

Another question that this brought to my mind is why would she be serving a French fish soup at an Italian restaurant?

Allesandro's is an Italian restaurant. SO, I would assume they would have a lot of pasta dishes. (Monica's original complaint was that the food was inedible swill, and the marinara sauce was like tomato juice.) So, I'm assuming fish is on the menu, but is not the main attraction.

Christoph P�per wrote in message news:...

He actually said "abysmal," which has come to mean "really bad." Chandler's interviewer said "duties," in other words the tasks Chandler would have to perform if he got the job. "Duty" is a sort of homophone for "doody/doodie," which is another childish way of saying "poo." Mahi-mahi is indeed a kind of fish. I think it is fished in large numbers near Hawaii. It is used in Hawaiian cooking. As I recall some people refer to it as a dolphin fish, but it is certainly not a "dolphin."

Scott

[Sat, 04 May 2002 14:38:52 GMT] Christoph P�per wrote:

Spoiler space

With all the categories she has for towels and soap, I'm sure she has a more or less disposable category of bowls.

Christoph P�per wrote in message news:...

Actually, I thought that she had some better scenes in this episode. I thought that this episode had a fair share for all the six.

I was right! As I predicted, there had to be someone getting a

I hadn't read any spoilers and I'm no R&R fan so my perspective may not be totally objective but I thought she was only teasing in the beginning of the episode. I agree that she wasn't teasing in the end. Afterall that was after seeing him with a prospective girlfriend. Not exactly a surprise; she has done this many times now.

Yeah, I laughed out loud several times, even though many of the jokes were predictable. A pretty good episode indeed.

Priya

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

That is totally objective Priya. Anybody who considers the first scene foreshadowing is, I dont know, I better not say anything, as I've gotten in trouble before for this... I wouldnt even consider the second one foreshadowing, she was just very moved by Ross letting her get away with her attitude, though even she felt it was wrong to do what she did.

Andre

"Andr?Knoche" wrote in message news:...

Thanks.

Lol.

At least she admitted that she was asking for too much. I'm talking about the oh-so-obvious reaction that Rachel gave when Ross said that he was only kidding. I was yelling, "Just go and pee woman!". Lol.

Priya

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

felt

The closer we get to the finale, the more I'm getting scared that they'll pull off the ultimate anti climax, with Ross proposing after Rachel has given birth, although right now he doesn't seem to consider getting back together with Rachel at all, and in 901 Rachel will either laugh at him or tell him to go to hell (or something else along those lines). And then somehow Joey enters the scene again, which I think is becoming less believable with every episode where they ignore this issue. It kinda looks like the whole J&R thing was only supposed to get Friends through Feb sweeps and be a plot device to have R&R living together, but the writers *slightly* under-estimated the impact of this storyline and now they have to find a way to write Joey back into this.

Andre

Andr� Knoche :

If something big involving R/R/J [excluding the birth] is gonna happen in the season finale, I guess it would be more like this: In-bed-Rachel proposes to Ross, he rejects, Rachel is hurt and later consoled by Joey, which gives an compromising image to a returning Ross, who [with P/M/C's help] thought things over. Hopefully he won't sleep with the next nurse he finds, because we somehow already had that storyline.

Christoph

"Christoph P�per" wrote in message news:ab6dmr$2qjd$[email]...

they'll

or

I can *so* not see Rachel proposing to Ross. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it'd be like errr... very surprising

Andre

Andr� Knoche :

I didn't say she would have been serious about it. d-: Pre- or post-natal stress would be a reason, but nevertheless right now I expect any next step from Rachel not Ross, although a marriage proposal isn't really a step in sight.

Christoph

Christoph P�per wrote in message news:...

I wouldn't be surprised if Rachel proposed. We've seen Rachel proposing before. Remember Joshua? Lol. Yeah, she might propose and Ross would think it over and when he later accepts she might laugh in his face and say that it was just the pregnancy hormones or she was kidding with him. With Rachel, you can never say.

Priya

"Andr?Knoche" wrote in message news:...

I know what you mean. I fear the same thing and it's pretty obvious that they'll throw Joey back into the mix in the season cliffhanger. I'm only guessing that but it's very likely. I don't know the ratings for this episode but 820 did worse than the clip show. Barring 819 (which I really suspect was filmed out of order), they have kept Joey and Rachel apart. So, they can just simply push him back into the story and leave us hanging all summer. Another explanation is that they needed to put the Joey story in the backseat because they need to develop things between R&R enough to cause a proper balance for the inevitable cliffhanger. We'll just have to wait and see.

Priya

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

.

I agree she was only teasing the first time. However, I don't think she was seeing a "prospective girlfriend" more like a prospective REPLACEMENT mother. Didn't she clearly state, a few minutes prior, that it wasn't that she wanted him? When a child is involved looking at the new mate of your ex has more to do with the time that person will be spending with YOUR child. There is a lot of emotion in that situation. I thought it was totally a pregnancy/motherhood related thing given how they were stressing the pregnancy emotions.

Katie

"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:...

In 805, Ross feared that anyone Rachel dates could become a stepfather to his child. That is understandable but Rachel's fears are not the same. She fears that Ross won't be spending every waking minute with her and that he'd be off having fun with some woman. No room or question about a 'replacement mother' here.

Oh sure, she never wants him. She just wants him hanging around like a spare tire incase she needs him. God forbid if he found someone and moved one while she didn't have anyone around with her. She wasn't too thrilled about Mona in 805. She was alone and didn't like to see Ross with someone. It's more or less the same here too. One can argue that a pregnant woman at her stage can be excused for the demands she made but this is Rachel we are talking about. She doesn't have to be heavily pregnant to do this to Ross.

Unless Ross gets into a serious relationship, the new woman isn't going to hang around a baby with him. Mona might have but we can't say the same for the girl in this episode. She isn't going to spend her first few dates with him babysitting, thats for sure. I don't think Rachel was looking that much into the future, when she said that she doesn't want Ross to date. She just wanted Ross to be home and helping Rachel out with the baby just as he promised he would last episode. Asking him not to date at all was a bit much.

Priya